9.7" iPad Pro or 10.5" ?

[spiderman0616]

I stand by my theory but timing is less certain. Apple have tended to milk the same design for as long as it can, look at iPhone 6/6s/7 all on the same basic physical design.

If Apple is back to annual iPad refreshes and the next iPad is going to be released 12 months or less after this one then I would say there is at least a 50% chance that Apple would stick with the same 10.5" form factor as the one it just announced, i.e. no edge-to-edge OLED until the release after next. If Apple is re-aligning to March/April iPad releases and leaving the next update until March/April 2019 then I would expect it to go edge-to-edge OLED at that point.

Ultimately though any speculation here about the future is just that - speculation. Even Apple probably doesn't know yet, it will have multiple options on the drawing board and will probably not make a choice until much closer to launch so that it can see what competitors have been doing. I'm afraid you really do need to make a decision on the released products you know about now not speculation from a bunch of strangers who by definition don't have any inside knowledge (if they were genuine insiders they would be under non disclosure agreements).

We probably ought to consider the Keyboard here. If they go edge to edge and shrink it back down, the keyboard shrinks back down too.
[doublepost=1497122080][/doublepost]

Because something absolutely great that blows the 9.7 Pro out the water was supposed to come out this year.

Which is exactly what happened, yet here we are.

 

[Fuzzball84]

The design of the new ipad pros is very very old, dates back to ipad mini released around 5 years ago! These devices are clearly stop gap products that will ensure a steady revenue stream while new ipad pros are going through final design and engineering. Plus changing the size/dimensions of the ipad pro is pure genius, everyone buying a new ipad pro has to buy new keyboard and other case accesories.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the performance of the ipad air 2 and up, but something really speacial will be released next year after the unveiling of the iphone 8, maybe even this fall!

 

[MentalFloss]

The design of the new ipad pros is very very old, dates back to ipad mini released around 5 years ago! These devices are clearly stop gap products that will ensure a steady revenue stream while new ipad pros are going through final design and engineering. Plus changing the size/dimensions of the ipad pro is pure genius, everyone buying a new ipad pro has to buy new keyboard and other case accesories.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the performance of the ipad air 2 and up, but something really speacial will be released next year after the unveiling of the iphone 8, maybe even this fall!

I would be completely willing to bet a good five digit sum against that prediction.

And it's quite funny... when Apple releases new devices with the exact same form factor as the last generation, nobody goes "Oh wow, cool, no other company does that!" But when they change the form factor from one generation to the next, everyone acts like it was only done to make a bunch of money.

 

[rui no onna]

Which is exactly what happened, yet here we are.

True. This is probably the single best year over year upgrade I've seen for the iPad. Majority of upgrades tend to be incremental.

 

[spiderman0616]

True. This is probably the single best year over year upgrade I've seen for the iPad. Majority of upgrades tend to be incremental.

I managed to fight the urge all week, but in the end, that screen size and refresh rate---my god--I couldn't help myself.

 

[augustya]

If you truly like that size & weight (I get it, been using the 9.7 Pro since launch and absolutely love the size/weight combination), is there any reason you didn’t get one last year? Or were you still happy with the iPad 3 at that time?

Yeah exactly at that time I was happy with my iPad 3 didn't find any compelling reason to upgrade, the 9.7" iPad Pro slowly grew on me but by that time I was close to the 10.5" release and hence waited for that !

 

[profets]

Windows and iOS are completely different operating systems and have completely different audiences. It would be stupid to compatre the two like this.

Whereas microsoft have optimised windows 10 to run really well on older hardware, iOS doesnt play nice with hardware 3-5 years old. The trick is to build in planned obsolescence. Apple is a company that has very devoted fans who will buy the latest and greatest and are willing to buffer little but significant price increases. I think its a non issue and apple decides what software can be installed on the devices, not its users. This also ensures tight control of the apple ecosystem.

Not sure I agree with this. If you look at the Mac it's a different story - 10.13 supports Macs going back many years, and I think part of is that macOS and the hardware to a certain extent has matured quite a bit.

Whereas with iOS and iOS hardware, it's still in early days and there's been significant acceleration in hardware and software. iOS hardware does get OS updates for several years, though they do feel sluggish after 2-3 of those updates. But I think it's a byproduct of pushing the OS forward aggressively coupled with the hardware having a lot of room to improve.

 

[Fuzzball84]

Not sure I agree with this. If you look at the Mac it's a different story - 10.13 supports Macs going back many years, and I think part of is that macOS and the hardware to a certain extent has matured quite a bit.

Whereas with iOS and iOS hardware, it's still in early days and there's been significant acceleration in hardware and software. iOS hardware does get OS updates for several years, though they do feel sluggish after 2-3 of those updates. But I think it's a byproduct of pushing the OS forward aggressively coupled with the hardware having a lot of room to improve.

I disagree strongly. I think the reference to macOS is a distraction, the original poster was comparing windows to iOS, and I stated that this is a nonsense comparison. So, it is also nonsense to talk about macOS in this particular discussion too.

As you, yourself said so, 'though they do feel sluggish after 2-3 of those updates', in reference to iOS solidifies my argument that iOS has a 3-5 year support of the physical hardware.

 

[rui no onna]

I managed to fight the urge all week, but in the end, that screen size and refresh rate---my god--I couldn't help myself.

Playing the waiting game for now. I'm getting the 2nd gen 12.9 for sure since that's been on my wish list since Fall 2016. Depending on how much I like ProMotion on the 12.9, I might get the 10.5, too. I'm not sure yet. The 9.7 Pro serves my needs quite well and I'll be able to recover a lot of storage once I offload comics to the 12.9.

Apple made significant upgrades to their 10-inch class tablet for sure (some of which, I love, some, I don't care about). However, what would've tipped the scales for me was 326 PPI or same resolution as 12.9 Pro. The trifecta of 512GB + ProMotion + 2732*2048 would've put the 10.5 on the automatic buy category for me instead of this dilly-dallying.

 

[Fuzzball84]

Playing the waiting game for now. I'm getting the 2nd gen 12.9 for sure since that's been on my wish list since Fall 2016. Depending on how much I like ProMotion on the 12.9, I might get the 10.5, too. I'm not sure yet. The 9.7 Pro serves my needs quite well and I'll be able to recover a lot of storage once I offload comics to the 12.9.

Apple made significant upgrades to their 10-inch class tablet for sure (some of which, I love, some, I don't care about). However, what would've tipped the scales for me was 326 PPI or same resolution as 12.9 Pro. The trifecta of 512GB + ProMotion + 2732*2048 would've put the 10.5 on the automatic buy category for me instead of this dilly-dallying.

Just buy it already!

 

[MentalFloss]

As you, yourself said so, 'though they do feel sluggish after 2-3 of those updates', in reference to iOS solidifies my argument that iOS has a 3-5 year support of the physical hardware.

You completely ignored the argument about higher performance increases for iPads. At every keynote where a new iPad is introduced, Apple presents a performance curve showing an exponential growth in performance for iPads. The new iPad Pro models are actually the first where the curve flattened somewhat (they key word being "somewhat" here). For PCs on the other hand, the curve has flattened quite a long time ago, and PCs were essentially overpowered for anything but gaming already five years ago. There is nothing that Microsoft could build into Windows that could make a five-year-old PC obsolete, no matter how hard they might try. So your argument about planned obsolescence or Microsoft making Windows support older hardware is nonsense. It's easy to support old hardware when it was already ultra-powerful five years ago.

Ten years ago, your argument about planned obsolescence would have applied just as much for PCs. But there was never such a thing as planned obsolescence. There was Moore's Law and software companies exploiting the opportunities provided to them by Moore's Law. That has been dead on the PCs side for a while now, but it is still in full force on the tablet side. That is the simple reason why the software support cycle on tablets is shorter that on PCs.

 

[Fuzzball84]

You completely ignored the argument about higher performance increases for iPads. At every keynote where a new iPad is introduced, Apple presents a performance curve showing an exponential growth in performance for iPads. The new iPad Pro models are actually the first where the curve flattened somewhat (they key word being "somewhat" here). For PCs on the other hand, the curve has flattened quite a long time ago, and PCs were essentially overpowered for anything but gaming already five years ago. There is nothing that Microsoft could build into Windows that could make a five-year-old PC obsolete, no matter how hard they might try. So your argument about planned obsolescence or Microsoft making Windows support older hardware is nonsense. It's easy to support old hardware when it was already ultra-powerful five years ago.

Ten years ago, your argument about planned obsolescence would have applied just as much for PCs. But there was never such a thing as planned obsolescence. There was Moore's Law and software companies exploiting the opportunities provided to them by Moore's Law. That has been dead on the PCs side for a while now, but it is still in full force on the tablet side. That is the simple reason why the software support cycle on tablets is shorter that on PCs.

Yet the iPad 2 was supported up to iOS9. It is upto Apple, what support cycle is given, not the hardware.

 

[0lf]

Windows and iOS are completely different operating systems and have completely different audiences. It would be stupid to compatre the two like this.

Whereas microsoft have optimised windows 10 to run really well on older hardware, iOS doesnt play nice with hardware 3-5 years old. The trick is to build in planned obsolescence. Apple is a company that has very devoted fans who will buy the latest and greatest and are willing to buffer little but significant price increases. I think its a non issue and apple decides what software can be installed on the devices, not its users. This also ensures tight control of the apple ecosystem.

What a joke.
Why stupid ? The two platforms are clearly directed toward the same market.
Mobile platforms, hardware and software, progress at a much higher pace than traditional computer. It is the main reason of obsolescence in mobile.
So, either mobile platforms stop progressing and obsolescence will not be a problem in the future, or mobile platforms keep progressing and make obsolete not only older mobile devices but also traditional computers.

 

[rui no onna]

You completely ignored the argument about higher performance increases for iPads. At every keynote where a new iPad is introduced, Apple presents a performance curve showing an exponential growth in performance for iPads. The new iPad Pro models are actually the first where the curve flattened somewhat (they key word being "somewhat" here). For PCs on the other hand, the curve has flattened quite a long time ago, and PCs were essentially overpowered for anything but gaming already five years ago. There is nothing that Microsoft could build into Windows that could make a five-year-old PC obsolete, no matter how hard they might try. So your argument about planned obsolescence or Microsoft making Windows support older hardware is nonsense. It's easy to support old hardware when it was already ultra-powerful five years ago.

Ten years ago, your argument about planned obsolescence would have applied just as much for PCs. But there was never such a thing as planned obsolescence. There was Moore's Law and software companies exploiting the opportunities provided to them by Moore's Law. That has been dead on the PCs side for a while now, but it is still in full force on the tablet side. That is the simple reason why the software support cycle on tablets is shorter that on PCs.

Agreed. Heck, best upgrade you could give a Core 2 Wolfdale or Yorkfield is an SSD, not a faster CPU. It's been a long time that storage has been the bottleneck for typical use and not processing power.

For iPhones with their much lower resolution, the A6/A7 marked the start of longevity (not just iOS support but actually being able to maintain good performance with firmware updates). With retina iPads, I reckon that's A8/A9.

A10 was a shift in that Apple focused more on power savings rather than more significant performance improvements.

 

[Fuzzball84]

Agreed. Heck, best upgrade you could give a Core 2 Wolfdale or Yorkfield is an SSD, not a faster CPU. It's been a long time that storage has been the bottleneck for typical use and not processing power.

For iPhones with their much lower resolution, the A6/A7 marked the start of longevity (not just iOS support but actually being able to maintain good performance with firmware updates). With retina iPads, I reckon that's A8/A9.

A10 was a shift in that Apple focused more on power savings rather than more significant performance improvements.

Yet the ipad 2 with an A5 lasted up until iOS9

Not to mention that the ipad pro 10.5 seems to have an additional 2 Gb of RAM over the previous version. That is about performance and not energy savings.

 

[0lf]

Ten years ago, your argument about planned obsolescence would have applied just as much for PCs. But there was never such a thing as planned obsolescence. There was Moore's Law and software companies exploiting the opportunities provided to them by Moore's Law. That has been dead on the PCs side for a while now, but it is still in full force on the tablet side. That is the simple reason why the software support cycle on tablets is shorter that on PCs.

Make me remember my 2008 PC with vista, core 2 duo, 5400rpm HDD, 2GB ram... my iPad air 2 is aging much better.
That said, the situation was a bit different back then, because, you know, new windows versions were not free.

 

[JulianL]

In light of a redesigned iphone, in the shape of iphone 8, its highly likely next spring 2018 there will be a brand new redesigned ipad lineup for both the regular and pro versions

You might be right but if they go back to spring and start that cycle in spring 2018 rather than 2019 that's only a 9 month gap. I just think that Apple seem to like to get more than even a 12 month cycle out of a physical form factor, look at iPhone 6 case that is going to have been going 3 years by the time we get the next iPhone launch. 9 months seems to me to be less time than Apple would want after they have had to retool for a new case.

Probably what will happen is that, if they do have a refresh in spring next year, they will look carefully at how well the first 10.5" model has been selling up to that point, estimate what sort of sales kick they could get with simply doing an internal component refresh vs changing form factor, and if they think they can get away with holding off the big change until 2019 they will but if sales aren't looking great then they will jump early.

 

[rui no onna]

Yet the ipad 2 with an A5 lasted up until iOS9

Not to mention that the ipad pro 10.5 seems to have an additional 2 Gb of RAM over the previous version. That is about performance and not energy savings.

It lasted to iOS 9 but realistically, it was a major pain to use with anything after iOS 7. Simple typing had so much lag.

Quite honestly, mobile RAM uses very little power. Adding that extra 2GB is a fairly negligible power penalty. Also, A10X has a big.LITTLE set-up, too.

 

[Fuzzball84]

It lasted to iOS 9 but realistically, it was a major pain to use with anything after iOS 7.

Quite honestly, mobile RAM uses very little power. Adding that extra 2GB is a fairly negligible power penalty. Also, A10X has a big.LITTLE set-up, too.

It was supported, apples decision.

 

[profets]

I disagree strongly. I think the reference to macOS is a distraction, the original poster was comparing windows to iOS, and I stated that this is a nonsense comparison. So, it is also nonsense to talk about macOS in this particular discussion too.

As you, yourself said so, 'though they do feel sluggish after 2-3 of those updates', in reference to iOS solidifies my argument that iOS has a 3-5 year support of the physical hardware.

You completely missed my point.

I wasn’t talking about Windows. I referred to macOS to show that when an Apple OS is stable and mature, the hardware can handle it for many years. Currently, iOS feels sluggish after 2-3 years. What I mean by this is that I don’t think apple is intentionally creating planned obsolescence. It only appears that way because iOS is young and has been growing aggressively, as has iOS hardware. And as a result, older hardware slows more significantly with the demands of much newer software.

 

[rui no onna]

It was supported, apples decision.

I don't care overmuch how long Apple provides iOS support. They tend to provide firmware updates long after performance drops. I care more for how devices actually perform on the updated firmware.

Besides, the better a device can keep good performance, chances are the longer they will be supported by Apple in terms of iOS updates (even if some features get skipped).

Just because Apple provides a new firmware version doesn't mean it's a good idea to update. At least not if you're concerned with performance.

 

[MentalFloss]

Yet the iPad 2 was supported up to iOS9. It is upto Apple, what support cycle is given, not the hardware.

Sure. If Apple stops improving iOS, then iPads will not become obsolete anymore. In full agreement here.

The difference between you and me is that I believe that Apple is improving iOS for the sake of usability and to exploit the increasing hardware power (and obviously to justify these increases), while you seem to assume that Apple is doing it to make the new hardware obsolete and that the improvements in iOS are worthless and/or that Apple introduced inefficient code into iOS on purpose to make it more sluggish on older devices.

While I am not naive about Apple's obvious desire to suck money out of the customers, I guess I don't consider Apple to be quite that sinister.

 

[Closingracer]

Agreed ! But that does not mean I wanna again land up in a heavier, bulkier iPad. The weight of the 9.7" iPad Pro is the benchmark for me !

Then go buy one. The negligible weight gain if anything is well negligible.

 

[profets]

Yeah exactly at that time I was happy with my iPad 3 didn't find any compelling reason to upgrade, the 9.7" iPad Pro slowly grew on me but by that time I was close to the 10.5" release and hence waited for that !

Being totally honest, I’d say now is the perfect time to upgrade. If you loved the 9.7 but were kind of waiting, it seems like such good timing with getting a larger screen (and slightly larger device/weight, I know) as well as all the spec improvements and especially 4GB of RAM now.

 

[Traverse]

Oh but people have been telling me for months that 2GB of ram will last forever, that I was stupid not to buy the 9.7 pro due to concerns over ram. Glad I listened to myself!

But yeah OP, I. would go with the 10.5. The 9.7 will age a lot faster with that 2GB of ram.

The iPad Pro 9.7" misses out on one fringe use case where you may want to interact with 3 apps at once on sub 10" screen. I doubt that will obliterate many use cases.

It still has a super fast A9X chip, amazing screen (called perfect by many tech reviewers), great speakers and Apple Pencil support. The 10.5 is a better device for me, but don't discount it.

Also, if "age" means slow down, then no. The iPad 3 "aged" rapidly because it's A5X stuttered and lagged after just 1.5 years. The 2GB of RAM will only mean more frequent refreshes with apps and safari tabs. It will be able to perform well for years to come. On my current Pro I can have 5/6 tabs and another 3/4 apps open easily. I can go beyond that, but it depends on what apps.
[doublepost=1497161300][/doublepost]

I've had an iPhone 6 plus and 7 and an iPad Air 2 and the 2nd Gen is faster and more accurate to the point you can notice.

I've only (I feel ridiculous saying "only") had an iPhone 6/SE and iPad Air 3/Peo 9.7"

The A9 chip made touch ID noticeably faster then on my iPhone 6 to the point where I thought my iPad Pro at the second generation sensor, but was assured by users on this forum that it still didn't compare.

I have never used a second generation touch ID device, but based on videos from YouTube the difference is dramatic. I'm very much looking forward to that.
[doublepost=1497162130][/doublepost]

Except for the fact that it looks huge.

Keep in mind in that picture they weren't holding them exalts even. He 10.5 was slightly higher than the 9.7. They should have put it on a table.

It is marginally taller and wider. It just looks huge because we're not used to those screen to bezel ratios. I think you're misjudging the difference, but you can see for yourself and go with what suits you best.