iPad Pro A college student's review of the iPad Pro.

[upritbass]

I knew if Notability had the ability to take hand-written notes it would be awesome.

 

[Krevnik]

In working life when your boss tells you to do something, you do it. It's not a discussion.

And this is why I am glad I don't work for someone like you. Holy crap. I get there's the need of the business, but this sort of attitude kills creativity, which in my line of work, is vital. Respectful disagreement and debate is something that belongs at the workplace. I don't hire people to be drones, I hire them for their value as an individual contributing to the company's goals.

The way to learn is to take notes. The act of organization and summary cements iknowledge in your brain. Taping a lecture is a poor substitute and encourages lazy behavior in students.

While I agree that the research shows that recording and "vomiting" data into a computer via keyboard is not nearly as effective, I don't agree with your sense of balance here. New tech will always come in and disrupt things. A wholesale ban like you advocate doesn't tackle the thornier issues, and ignores the benefits that a tablet with something like Notability / Penultimate can bring to the table. My iPad is my "Moleskine", and the tool I use to digest and understand what I encounter. But, I don't type into it for notes except in certain cases. Throw-away action lists that I'll process into a better format (OmniFocus / Things) and handle after the meeting for example.


That said, I do agree that replacing things like textbooks with an iPad is difficult. You really do want 2 "screens", and I find that I prefer something like PDF + Physical Notes, or Physical Book + iPad Notes. Having both on the same screen gets annoying to me.

 

[upritbass]

And this is why I am glad I don't work for someone like you. Holy crap. I get there's the need of the business, but this sort of attitude kills creativity, which in my line of work, is vital. Respectful disagreement and debate is something that belongs at the workplace.

I hope he didn't mean it as harshly as you interpreted. In any good business there is debate, but at some point someone (usually the boss) must make a decision. At that point you either do it or step aside and accept the consequences.

As career advice to the college student, keep a paper trail. That way when things go south and the boss is looking for someone to blame (god forbid they would blame themselves) you can point to your actions and say, "See, I gave the correct advice."

 

[username:]

You come to lectures to learn and take notes. You should see this as a learning period for your working life. In working life when your boss tells you to do something, you do it. It's not a discussion. Thus if your professor says No, then that's it.
[doublepost=1457408621][/doublepost]

The way to learn is to take notes. The act of organization and summary cements iknowledge in your brain. Taping a lecture is a poor substitute and encourages lazy behavior in students.

As I pointed out, gadgets are a distraction to others around them. I remember the first time I experienced this in the early 90s. Nothing has changed my view and it's worse nowadays as the Facebook generation are weak willed due to short attention span. You help them by encouraging responsible behavior.

Surprised you even know how to post on an Internet forum!

 

[yaxomoxay]

The way to learn is to take notes.

If you don't mind, the way to learn is the way I learn the best with.

The act of organization and summary cements iknowledge in your brain.

YOUR brain. You have no idea how my brain, of that of anyone else, works. Some people need to read the same book ten times, and take notes on margin to learn stuff. Some don't.

As I pointed out, gadgets are a distraction to others around them.

Everything that is not related to class is a distraction. Including your dress while you teach. At college level students should be able to discern what to do.
[doublepost=1457470512][/doublepost]

I've interviewed a few college graduates and asked them to use a whiteboard and pen. Their communication ability in the written word is awful as you can't read their handwriting. I had one use texting abbreviations with illegible handwriting. Handwriting is a craft and mandatory if you want to work for me.

Am I hired? Here's my handwritten resume.

 

[alecgold]

I've interviewed a few college graduates and asked them to use a whiteboard and pen. Their communication ability in the written word is awful as you can't read their handwriting. I had one use texting abbreviations with illegible handwriting. Handwriting is a craft and mandatory if you want to work for me.

You're an odd feller. I wonder if you are really that old as you appear to be? To me it looks like you're around 85 years old and pretty stubborn. As far as I can read here, I'm happy I don't work for or with you.

Just one question, why do you post on a forum, when you dislike iPads, iPhones or computers so much? What is there to gain when people can write beautiful long hand? Besides the enjoyment a nicely written letter brings? But for work?

Oh, one more thing, if you want to review people's handwriting, don't use a whiteboard. Unless they had specific training in black- or whiteboards, it's a useless test because it differs much from pen and paper.
[doublepost=1457473578][/doublepost]For the students here:
I'm 42 and back to university, doing a study in fiscal laws. Part-time, but I'll do my bachelor in the same 3 years the full-time-youngsters do So I need every advantage I can get. Working and learning in the most efficient way is vital. My colleges are recorded and made into webcasts by the university, so I can review them if something was not clear the first time. I use an iPP to annotate by hand the hand-outs the professors provide up front. Why handwritten? Because there is plenty of research that shows handwriting is better retained then (mindless) typing. But I also use the iPP to read the 1500 pages you need to study every 4 weeks before the next exam. Or to type my practicum-results etc.
That being said, plenty of students have a laptop and type there college notes and also get good grades and pass exams. So it's not about who has the best tool, it's about who uses the tool at hand best! (And I still really like my iPP and lot's of them are a bit jealous! Hahaha)

I also run a business and I want the people there to work efficient as well. 10 years ago we would write, with pen and pencil, a minute of a meeting, work that out on the (desktop)computer in the minutes of the meeting, translate that into final report and send it back. Now we have a meeting and type on a MacBook Pro the minutes that are then quickly and easily finalized into a final report. Much more accurate, faster and less work. I do want them to have a good style of writing, I won't accept texting language in any minute or report, but I will not have the clock set back 10 years because some think the old days where better.
Most of us at the office have a MacBook Pro with an external 22" screen. I'm the lucky soandso that also has the iPP, Pencil and Smart Keyboard. My MacBook Pro hardly ever leaves the office and could have been a MacMini as well for that matter.

Edit:typos

 

[Noble Actual]

I've used a combo of my MacBook Air (I got it shortly after starting back in college) and my iPad Air (upgraded from iPad 3 when it got way too slow) to take notes and do work. But then one teacher wanted us writing things down by hand, so he didn't allow iPads. Then in the fall it was the same thing in another class, so I haven't used Notability as much.

I really hate this. I knew if Notability had the ability to take hand-written notes it would be awesome. The problem using my finger was, well, it was my finger and writing math was hard at times. I mostly just used text. I should've spent more time scanning in my notes to Notability, but I work full time and do class half time so I just don't have ... time.

What I'd like to know is the iPad Pro 32GB a worthy upgrade for me. I'm halfway done with spring. I just have to do basically an internship/field camp-type thing in the summer (I'm in geology, and this will be playing with hydrogeology stuff) and then surficial geology and likely a GIS course (fancy computer software) in the fall. I write SLOPPY notes because I try to write so fast yet don't do cursive because I hate it. I can type with my thumbs quicker, using a keyboard at 80+ wpm like a boss. So would the iPad Pro be worth it for me now since my iPad Air doesn't have any issues?

Appreciate any advice you can give. All of my textbooks are digital via Amazon now because I'm just not going to drop that money on heavy textbooks that I barely crack, especially when I can always have them on my iPad and maybe actually read.

I have several suggestions.

1. Buying an iPP won't change your situation much. Like I said, it works great and kills two stones with one bird (MacBook, iPad Air) if you live in a perfect world where situations like this never happened. One class a teacher wants you to use electronics, the other class they don't.

2. Here's another thing. Don't buy textbooks if you're not going to use them. Buying them on Kindle and barely using them is actually a bigger waste than buying them physically. For example: I took I bio class and our teacher wanted the class to get a specific textbook. Asked my friend who took a similar class (different teacher) and he said just find a free bio book online. 90% same material.

I just know trying to go the utopia route of "I'm going all digital because its the future" is super painful and inconsistent currently. I focused on what was cheapest and easiest.

So I can rent a physical book for $12 for a semester or buy a new one digitally for $300. I'm going to carry that book and if needed just drop it off in my car after class.

Doesn't apply to everyone, but what I'm trying to say is, find a way without spending huge sums of money (ex. buying an iPad Pro) if you haven't tried all options. Some are pretty out of the box and highly dependent on your own personal schedule.
[doublepost=1457474627][/doublepost]

You're an odd feller. I wonder if you are really that old as you appear to be? To me it looks like you're around 85 years old and pretty stubborn. As far as I can read here, I'm happy I don't work for or with you.

Just one question, why do you post on a forum, when you dislike iPads, iPhones or computers so much? What is there to gain when people can write beautiful long hand? Besides the enjoyment a nicely written letter brings? But for work?

Oh, one more thing, if you want to review people's handwriting, don't use a whiteboard. Unless they had specific training in black- or whiteboards, it's a useless test because it differs much from pen and paper.
[doublepost=1457473578][/doublepost]For the students here:
I'm 42 and back to university, doing a study in fiscal laws. Part-time, but I'll do my bachelor in the same 3 years the full-time-youngsters do So I need every advantage I can get. Working and learning in the most efficient way is vital. My colleges are recorded and made into webcasts by the university, so I can review them if something was not clear the first time. I use an iPP to annotate by hand the hand-outs the professors provide up front. Why handwritten? Because there is plenty of research that shows handwriting is better retained then (mindless) typing. But I also use the iPP to read the 1500 pages you need to study every 4 weeks before the next exam. Or to type my practicum-results etc.
That being said, plenty of students have a laptop and type there college notes and also get good grades and pass exams. So it's not about who has the best tool, it's about who uses the tool at hand best! (And I still really like my iPP and lot's of them are a bit jealous! Hahaha)

I also run a business and I want the people there to work efficient as well. 10 years ago we would write, with pen and pencil, a minute of a meeting, work that out on the (desktop)computer in the minutes of the meeting, translate that into final report and send it back. Now we have a meeting and type on a MacBook Pro the minutes that are then quickly and easily finalized into a final report. Much more accurate, faster and less work. I do want them to have a good style of writing, I won't accept texting language in any minute or report, but I will not have the clock set back 10 years because some think the old days where better.
Most of us at the office have a MacBook Pro with an external 22" screen. I'm the lucky soandso that also has the iPP, Pencil and Smart Keyboard. My MacBook Pro hardly ever leaves the office and could have been a MacMini as well for that matter.

Edit:typos

Excellent insight and perfectly worded. Its not about the owning the best or most expensive gadget, its how you use it.

I know classmates who handwrite everything and their notes are not only super readable, organized, but better than any notes I can take on my iPad or laptop.

I also know classmates who handwrite notes but should maybe consider typing because after reading their notes, neither of us understand anything.

There's also definitely some who should try to write notes because literally as soon as they open their laptops, they're busy on Facebook.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I won't accept texting language in any minute or report, but I will not have the clock set back 10 years because some think the old days where better.

This.
It's mostly a matter of context. If you read a story by HP Lovecraft you can see perfect usage of the English language, which he knew better than anyone else.
If you read his letters, anyone of the over three hundred thousand he wrote, it's a whole different story ("goin' to the baker & buy bread then mtg w the gang & listen to lectr.").

 

[Krevnik]

I hope he didn't mean it as harshly as you interpreted. In any good business there is debate, but at some point someone (usually the boss) must make a decision. At that point you either do it or step aside and accept the consequences.

Sure, although I'd argue that it isn't exactly a healthy work environment if this is more than a rare occurrence. I've worked for people who were "less harsh" in practice than the poster has been in words so far in this thread, and to be honest, while I still respect them, I'm glad to not be working for them.

As career advice to the college student, keep a paper trail. That way when things go south and the boss is looking for someone to blame (god forbid they would blame themselves) you can point to your actions and say, "See, I gave the correct advice."

Agreed. Plus, when you are juggling a dozen things, and someone asks about some random work you did 12 months ago, you have a point of reference.

 

[sparksd]

I hope he didn't mean it as harshly as you interpreted. In any good business there is debate, but at some point someone (usually the boss) must make a decision. At that point you either do it or step aside and accept the consequences.

As career advice to the college student, keep a paper trail. That way when things go south and the boss is looking for someone to blame (god forbid they would blame themselves) you can point to your actions and say, "See, I gave the correct advice."

I'm retired now but I was the System Architect on a large program (multi-billion dollar) in a big company. Our s/w organization on that program ran at about $350k/day so while we had to be careful in our decision making we could not afford delays and sometimes I had to make decisions that left a lot of people unhappy. So yeah, sometimes paralysis-by-analysis has to be stopped and a path forward dictated (the program was successful both for the company and the customer. Consensus is nice but not always a prerequisite for a decision.

 

[Night Spring]

So yeah, sometimes paralysis-by-analysis has to be stopped and a path forward dictated (the program was successful both for the company and the customer. Consensus is nice but not always a prerequisite for a decision.

Yes, decisions need to be made to keep the organization moving. But that's different from telling people what's the best way for them to learn. This discussion got started because a poster said that taking notes by hand was the way to learn, and then connected that to having to follow your superior's directives at work. But the best way to learn is different from person to person, and if your boss is demanding you conform to a learning style that doesn't suit you, then it's likely that you won't be able to function at your best capacity in that job.

 

[sparksd]

Yes, decisions need to be made to keep the organization moving. But that's different from telling people what's the best way for them to learn. This discussion got started because a poster said that taking notes by hand was the way to learn, and then connected that to having to follow your superior's directives at work. But the best way to learn is different from person to person, and if your boss is demanding you conform to a learning style that doesn't suit you, then it's likely that you won't be able to function at your best capacity in that job.

I agree with that - the discussion did veer off course. When I started at a university, hand calculators were just showing up in the marketplace and were not allowed in class - we had to stick with slide rules. Evolution can be slow and not readily accepted.

 

[upritbass]

I agree with that - the discussion did veer off course. When I started at a university, hand calculators were just showing up in the marketplace and were not allowed in class - we had to stick with slide rules. Evolution can be slow and not readily accepted.

Ah, yes, the Calculator Wars, the harbinger of every electronic device war since: "Don't buy it now, a better one will come out in X months!"

 

[Krevnik]

I agree with that - the discussion did veer off course. When I started at a university, hand calculators were just showing up in the marketplace and were not allowed in class - we had to stick with slide rules. Evolution can be slow and not readily accepted.

I am not sure that slow evolution is a bad thing in this case. Especially when research shows retention is better with handwritten notes than with typed notes. The act of summarizing and paraphrasing itself is part of the retention of the ideas.

So without understanding the process and how a technology interacts with it, we could evolve learning in ways that hurts rather than helps, and slowing down the evolution gives us time to find some of this stuff out.

And I'd say consensus is maybe not the word I would use after seeing how people take it to mean. In my work, the main agreement is between me and a small set of stakeholders, usually the architect in the area and a manager. That's a lot easier to deal with than getting consensus of the whole team. I've been shut down on ideas for various reasons (time, priorities, simply the wrong approach), and that's fine. What I'll not put up with is being shut down because they're "the boss" and "it isn't a discussion". And thankfully, I've not had to deal with it in my career.

 

[Night Spring]

And I'd say consensus is maybe not the word I would use after seeing how people take it to mean. In my work, the main agreement is between me and a small set of stakeholders, usually the architect in the area and a manager. That's a lot easier to deal with than getting consensus of the whole team. I've been shut down on ideas for various reasons (time, priorities, simply the wrong approach), and that's fine. What I'll not put up with is being shut down because they're "the boss" and "it isn't a discussion". And thankfully, I've not had to deal with it in my career.

I think the way they do it on Star Trek is the ideal. Spock, McCoy, and anybody else who has relevant expertise weighs in. They don't go around polling every crew member! Kirk makes the decision, then everyone goes about implementing it, even if the decision was different from the one they advocated.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I think the way they do it on Star Trek is the ideal.

Not if you're wearing red

 

[sparksd]

I am not sure that slow evolution is a bad thing in this case. Especially when research shows retention is better with handwritten notes than with typed notes. The act of summarizing and paraphrasing itself is part of the retention of the ideas.

So without understanding the process and how a technology interacts with it, we could evolve learning in ways that hurts rather than helps, and slowing down the evolution gives us time to find some of this stuff out.

And I'd say consensus is maybe not the word I would use after seeing how people take it to mean. In my work, the main agreement is between me and a small set of stakeholders, usually the architect in the area and a manager. That's a lot easier to deal with than getting consensus of the whole team. I've been shut down on ideas for various reasons (time, priorities, simply the wrong approach), and that's fine. What I'll not put up with is being shut down because they're "the boss" and "it isn't a discussion". And thankfully, I've not had to deal with it in my career.

As the architect of the system I did have a team of senior representatives from each of the areas but getting consensus within that team at times and on some issues was near near impossible. But a full and open discussion was always held and everyone within the team had a voice. Working for/with a demagogue is intolerable.
[doublepost=1457543419][/doublepost]

Not if you're wearing red

"Put on a red shirt, Chekov!".

 

[Michael CM1]

View attachment 620205

Did I really write that? Maybe what I meant was if I knew it worked with the pencil or something. I started using Notability instead of Evernote and its cousin because Notability let me use either typing or handwriting -- god awful finger-directed handwriting. Ugh, I just hate that these products are about two years too late for me in college.

A co-worker told me Notability works great for him and I think converts handwriting into legible text. Between that and larger screen for textbooks (I actually read them more than my first time in college but nowhere near as much as I wish I could) it's such a great device for school.

 

[Night Spring]

Maybe what I meant was if I knew it worked with the pencil or something.

It does work with Pencil -- why would you think it wouldn't?

 

[upritbass]

Maybe what I meant was if I knew it worked with the pencil or something.

That was done with the Apple Pencil. It is a point of pride among scientists to have illegible handwriting.

 

[Night Spring]

That was done with the Apple Pencil. It is a point of pride among scientists to have illegible handwriting.

Your handwriting is more legible than my boss’ -- he's a lawyer.

 

[Bbqthis]

An iPad for note taking is a distracting waste of time. Stick to paper and pen like how people have always done it as if I caught you recording me in a meeting then you'd get thrown out.

I disagree. One should memorize notes and pass them along through oral recitation from memory like how people have always done.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I disagree. One should memorize notes and pass them along through oral recitation from memory like how people have always done.

ahahahahhahahahaha, I laughed out loud

 

[capathy21]

if I'm paying ungodly sums of money for a college education, I should be able to write my notes on a 70 inch flatscreen tv if that's what I preferred. The tools I use to learn shouldn't be able to be dictated by some professor who still thinks writing on stone is the way to go. As long as I'm doing work pertaining to the lecture, it's not a distraction for others anymore than the girl with the flower pen and purple hair, or the guy who constantly clicks his ink pen throughout the lecture.

Handwriting notes on a tablet, or typing them on a laptop shouldn't matter to the professor. It's all about control, and trying to cling to a simpler time in life.

As for the recording...You really can't control who records you. I always recorded my professors lectures. It's not about being lazy. I learned by playing the lecture over and over again while studying my notes. It was the best method for me, and no professor was going to change that. Ban recording? No problem. I'll have a recorder in my backpack pocket and sit in the front.

$10,000 plus a semester, damn right I'm taking digital notes and recording everything.

 

[yaxomoxay]

if I'm paying ungodly sums of money for a college education, I should be able to write my notes on a 70 inch flatscreen tv if that's what I preferred. The tools I use to learn shouldn't be able to be dictated by some professor who still thinks writing on stone is the way to go. As long as I'm doing work pertaining to the lecture, it's not a distraction for others anymore than the girl with the flower pen and purple hair, or the guy who constantly clicks his ink pen throughout the lecture.

Handwriting notes on a tablet, or typing them on a laptop shouldn't matter to the professor. It's all about control, and trying to cling to a simpler time in life.

As for the recording...You really can't control who records you. I always recorded my professors lectures. It's not about being lazy. I learned by playing the lecture over and over again while studying my notes. It was the best method for me, and no professor was going to change that. Ban recording? No problem. I'll have a recorder in my backpack pocket and sit in the front.

$10,000 plus a semester, damn right I'm taking digital notes and recording everything.

You're exactly right. The professor is serving his students by sharing his knowledge, not by forcing his will on petty things upon them.