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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
It's kind of funny that smaller publishers and indy devs — with much less recourse — have no problems shipping fully functional Mac versions of their games, but not big, rich studios.
More like small developers can easily port their work across multiple platforms without much appraisal while big studios will have market research and respond to stakeholders which would put hurdles in making decision to switch to another platform.
If you are a person who is passionate about games, I am fairly surprised that you don't know about them.
I’m only passionate about RTS and a bit of JRPG games, where macOS has virtually zero market share. Yeah, I know, Company of Heroes are available on iOS now, but still.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
More like small developers can easily port their work across multiple platforms without much appraisal while big studios will have market research and respond to stakeholders which would put hurdles in making decision to switch to another platform.

Pretty much this. Stakeholders are often the death of the creative process. That's what happened to Cyberpunk.



I’m only passionate about RTS and a bit of JRPG games, where macOS has virtually zero market share. Yeah, I know, Company of Heroes are available on iOS now, but still.

It's surprising that RTS are not more at home on macOS. They are usually not that technically demanding and the few RTS that we do have (like the Total War series) tend to work well. In the end, it's a cultural thing. Some companies target multiplatform, some don't
 
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Mcckoe

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2013
170
352
When Apple came out with EGPU support, I saw a dim light at the end of the tunnel. I could dual boot my Mac and run a decent graphics card, even if there was a slight loss in frames from thunderbolt.

Now with Apple Silicon, the support for EGPUs have been dropped, and you no longer can dual boot and run Windows natively. So now if you want to game, you have to have a separately maintain another system or settle for Apple Arcade (yawn). Right now, I maintain a PC for gaming. I pull out a separate keyboard, mouse, audio interface each time I want to casually play. Each time I use a Microsoft product, I want to hang myself and makes me appreciate the Apple ecosystem more.

Gaming isn't just for nerds anymore. It's a common form of entertainment. The phrase "Macs don't game" really needs to die. Hopefully Apple Silicon can produce some killer GPUs to persuade gaming studios to develop their games on this platform.

This is my dream.
Just Kill the dream. You can stream to your Mac, they make official apps for that now. Buy a PS5, or a Series X, or a Graphics Card/computer and set it up. Think about it this way… 1000 for Mac Air, 500 for PS5… or 1500 for a gaming PC… Sometimes the reason something doesn’t exist, is because it doesn’t need to.
 

arvinsim

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2018
823
1,143
Completely untrue. It can run modern games at Full HD with medium/high settings with 40-ish FPS. Probably better if the game is properly optimized.
That is the definition of poor for gaming.
Linux is absolutely awful for developing games. Linux has no ABI stability, which means that testing and deploying your game is a huge mess. Drivers are a huge mess. Supporting all the different hardware and software configuration is a huge mess. Yeah, you can target something popular like Ubuntu, but it's rarely worth the hassle. Linux is great for open-source software (if you bother to set up flexible configuration scripts). It is a major PITA for commercial software.
No one develops in Linux, it's all Windows. But Proton makes playing games in Linux a non-issue

Ironically, Linux + Proton has a lot more games than MacOS.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
True, but then again, the share of gaming PCs is also rather low. The overwhelming majority of PCs are cheap office boxes with very weak GPUs. In contrast, all Apple Silicon Macs are capable of gaming. In a couple of years I expect the gaming-capable Macs to constitute at least 20% of all gaming-capable PCs.
Where is your info about the market share? If you think the gaming PCs is low, than gaming macOS will be way lower base on your logic.

Steam stats shows more than 96% of OS is WINDOWS. A fact hurts you huh? That's only for Steam and imagine the market share on EA, Ubisoft, Epic Games, Blizzard, Activision, and more. Clearly, you have no facts to support your claim.

Absolutely untrue. Metal is a very capable API, and Apple has been improving their developer tooling in the last years. We now have state of the art GPU debugging.
Capable, doesn't mean good. Did you even try DiretX technology? You clearly don't have PCs. The gap between Metal API and DiretX is huge. This is why all games are being developed from Windows. You are ignoring the fundamental fact and Windows is well known for gaming for decades. Most developers hate to support Metal cause it's not a major API. More time and money to optimize. The gaming industry is from Windows, not macOS.

MacBook Air starts at $999, and it's better at gaming than any other laptop in it's category. Yes, you can get a cheap gaming laptop for less, but it won't have the same utility or value. On the Windows side you have to choose between gaming and productivity, Apple Silicon makes this choice irrelevant.
Consoles are way less than that. Also, who cares about the utility and value? Gamers only cares about the gaming performance and you clearly not a gamer after all. You better check Steam communities and they gonna laugh at you. "Who play games on Mac?" You literally have no idea how the gaming computer works. At $1000, you can get a laptop with RTX 2060 GPU. M1 is around GTX 1050~1060 so how even dare to compare MBA with PC?

Completely untrue. It can run modern games at Full HD with medium/high settings with 40-ish FPS. Probably better if the game is properly optimized.
It's a fact. It can run doesn't mean it's good. Tell me how AMD performed compared to Nvidia? How come you are avoiding to compare with AMD and Nvidia? And that's how you call "Poor gaming" FHD at 40 FPS is such a laughable performance. Are you living in early 2000? FHD at 40 FPS? Wow.

FHD at higher than 60 FPS on different games with 1660 TI. M1 is not even enough for AAA games.

Apple gives you state of the art developer frameworks and tools to develop high-end games. Check out the WWDC session where they talk about optimizing Metro: Last Light and Baldur's Gates 3.
ONLY 2 games? How laughable. PC/Consoles have way more AAA games, my friend. Also, macOS doesn't even have titles only for a specific platform like Halo. Metro Exodus released in early 2019. So only one latest game then?

Linux is absolutely awful for developing games. Linux has no ABI stability, which means that testing and deploying your game is a huge mess. Drivers are a huge mess. Supporting all the different hardware and software configuration is a huge mess. Yeah, you can target something popular like Ubuntu, but it's rarely worth the hassle. Linux is great for open-source software (if you bother to set up flexible configuration scripts). It is a major PITA for commercial software.
So what? Linux has x86. All of your points are pretty pointless and it seems you don't even play games. This is why PC users laugh at Mac fanboys thinking that macOS will be good for gaming. Guess what? You are wrong. Especially since Apple moved to ARM, the gaming platform for macOS will be worse.

So far, only 3 games are native to ARM and 2 of them are old games. Your hope is unrealistically too high, man.
 
Last edited:

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,449
859
Once Apple builds the hardware that can compete with PCs, I think that might change. Besides, Blizzard caters to MacOS, why do you think they do that?

Blizzard used to support MacOS in smart and predictable ways, starting all the way back with the first three Warcraft games (CDs with Windows and Mac versions on it). That was how it was done with Blizzard from the beginning. That support structure went on through Starcraft and World of Warcraft, pretty much (minus the physical discs) until Overwatch was released.

Beginning with that release, Blizzard’s support for MacOS has been nonexistent.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
Blizzard used to support MacOS in smart and predictable ways, starting all the way back with the first three Warcraft games (CDs with Windows and Mac versions on it). That was how it was done with Blizzard from the beginning. That support structure went on through Starcraft and World of Warcraft, pretty much (minus the physical discs) until Overwatch was released.

Beginning with that release, Blizzard’s support for MacOS has been nonexistent.
Hardware is just another problem. The platform or macOS is the main reason why developers especially AAA developers aren't interested in macOS. It's just a terrible platform.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
That is the definition of poor for gaming.

Did you just say that around 80% of gaming laptops are poor for gaming?

Where is your info about the market share?




Of course, these numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but they give us a rough idea. Around 280 million PCs shipped, 41 million (less than 15%) of them classified as gaming devices. I don't know what was the exact criterion of "gaming device", but I'd assume equivalent of MX450 and up.


If you think gaming PCs is low, than gaming macOS will be way lower base on your logic.

Exactly, because in the Intel era, gaming capable Macs were limited to 15" MacBook Pro, 27" iMac and higher. So probably less than 10% of the entire Mac market share. However, every single Apple Silicon Mac is capable of gaming. M1 ~ entry level gaming PC laptop. Once all Macs move to Apple Silicon, all of them will be capable of gaming. So even of the overall market share of Macs won't change, the market share of gaming capable Macs will increase by a factor of 10-20 in the new 5 years.

Steam stats shows more than 96% of OS is WINDOWS. A fact hurts you huh? That's only for Steam and imagine the market share on EA, Ubisoft, Epic Games, Blizzard, Activision, and more. Clearly, you have no facts to support your claim.

I don't see how steam OS statistics is relevant here. I use Steam on Mac, Windows (Bootcamp) and Windows (GeForce Now). Steam statistics is inherently biased towards Windows, simply because most games are only available on Windows.

Capable, doesn't mean good. Did you even try DiretX technology? You clearly don't have PCs. The gap between Metal API and DiretX is huge. This is why all games are being developed from Windows. You are ignoring the fundamental fact and Windows is well known for gaming for decades. Most developers hate to support Metal cause it's not a major API. More time and money to optimize. The gaming industry is from Windows, not macOS.

I consider myself to be a reasonably competent GPU programmer. I have 20+ years of experience working with OpenGL, I know Metal quite well, and I try to keep up to date with DX12 and Vulkan. Metal is by far the best GPU API I know. Yes, Windows is mainstream for games, and most devs will target DX12. It does not invalidate my argument however. If one wants, one can develop cutting edge AAA games using Metal — it offers all the tools one needs, and in some cases (especially if you target Apple GPUs), it makes your job easier.


Consoles are way less than that. Also, who cares about the utility and value? Gamers only cares about the gaming performance and you clearly not a gamer after all. You better check Steam communities and they gonna laugh at you. "Who play games on Mac?"

And that's exactly the brain-dead fanboy attitude that we must strive to change. From the technical standpoint, M1 Macs are as capable of gaming as entry-level gaming PCs. This is a simple, irrefutable fact. The problem is that the bulk of the gaming community are immature, aggressive kids with preconceived notions. And as long as these notions persist, we won't have many games on macOS, because why would anyone target a platform everyone thinks is crap?
 

EntropyQ3

macrumors 6502a
Mar 20, 2009
718
824
When Apple came out with EGPU support, I saw a dim light at the end of the tunnel. I could dual boot my Mac and run a decent graphics card, even if there was a slight loss in frames from thunderbolt.

Now with Apple Silicon, the support for EGPUs have been dropped, and you no longer can dual boot and run Windows natively. So now if you want to game, you have to have a separately maintain another system or settle for Apple Arcade (yawn). Right now, I maintain a PC for gaming. I pull out a separate keyboard, mouse, audio interface each time I want to casually play. Each time I use a Microsoft product, I want to hang myself and makes me appreciate the Apple ecosystem more.

Gaming isn't just for nerds anymore. It's a common form of entertainment. The phrase "Macs don't game" really needs to die. Hopefully Apple Silicon can produce some killer GPUs to persuade gaming studios to develop their games on this platform.

This is my dream.
This crops up a lot, so it seems quite a few people share your dream. But "quite a few" doesn't necessarily go very far in the boardrooms of game publishers. Even when a couple of years down the line when Apples complete line-up is their own silicon, and you have an installed base of 50 million or so, a publisher needs to consider ROI and opportunity costs.
From one angle, there will be a decent installed base of reasonably capable hardware, backed by customers that clearly are capable of spending money to get something nice. Also, most machines are sold directly to end users rather than to corporate or administrative accounts, so those end users are much more likely to spend on software.
That's good.
However, Macs are not a platform that attracts people who buy hardware to play games. Those customers buy consoles or PCs, and game publishers haven't cultivated an audience on the Mac for their products. So the user base are likely to consist of casuals and/or people who have access to other platforms to game on.
So how much more revenue is likely to flow in from a Mac port that isn't directly taken from the same person buying the same software on another, more gaming oriented platform?
That's going to be really tricky to predict - which means risk.

Certain genres of games may find a decent audience, and publishers can slowly gather data that helps them make decisions and reduce risk. But that will take time.

An Xbox sx costs $499, has 16GB of fast RAM (8GB on baseline Macs) and 1TB of fast SSD (256GB minus OS and base apps on baseline Macs). If you want to extend your baseline Mac to a point where you can store a few games on the SSD and let them have some room to live in RAM, you are going to have to pay. A lot. More than the cost of a separate device. And you still won't get the gaming performance or selection of a console. At current prices, extending a Mac to be more gaming worthy doesn't make a lot of sense unfortunately.

So I don't have particularly high hopes that the big publishers will start adding MacOS to their list of default platforms. They may, at best, make judicious choices, and bring stuff like strategy titles and some RPGs to the platform, as well as some titles with very broad appeal. But add Indies and some titles carried over from iOS, and you have a gaming landscape that is likely to satisfy those who are looking for some entertainment on the side. And since the developers who do support MacOS will enjoy not only the user base but also the absence of a lot of big hit titles competing for consumer cash, there is likely to be a sustainable gaming eco-system with its own flavour. Eventually.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
Did you just say that around 80% of gaming laptops are poor for gaming?
You mean Mac.

Of course, these numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but they give us a rough idea. Around 280 million PCs shipped, 41 million (less than 15%) of them classified as gaming devices. I don't know what was the exact criterion of "gaming device", but I'd assume equivalent of MX450 and up.
You are ignoring previous and current PC that existed before. I gave you OS share and yet you failed to prove it.

Exactly, because in the Intel era, gaming capable Macs were limited to 15" MacBook Pro, 27" iMac and higher. So probably less than 10% of the entire Mac market share. However, every single Apple Silicon Mac is capable of gaming. M1 ~ entry level gaming PC laptop. Once all Macs move to Apple Silicon, all of them will be capable of gaming. So even of the overall market share of Macs won't change, the market share of gaming capable Macs will increase by a factor of 10-20 in the new 5 years.
Gamers don't care about capable Mac. The want PC.

I don't see how steam OS statistics is relevant here. I use Steam on Mac, Windows (Bootcamp) and Windows (GeForce Now). Steam statistics is inherently biased towards Windows, simply because most games are only available on Windows.
Biased? That's how market share works and you just admitted that most games are only available on Windows. Do you now see why Mac sucks for gaming?

I consider myself to be a reasonably competent GPU programmer. I have 20+ years of experience working with OpenGL, I know Metal quite well, and I try to keep up to date with DX12 and Vulkan. Metal is by far the best GPU API I know. Yes, Windows is mainstream for games, and most devs will target DX12. It does not invalidate my argument however. If one wants, one can develop cutting edge AAA games using Metal — it offers all the tools one needs, and in some cases (especially if you target Apple GPUs), it makes your job easier.
Being a GPU programmer does not mean you know well about the gaming industry. Clearly, you have no info to support the claim.

And that's exactly the brain-dead fanboy attitude that we must strive to change. From the technical standpoint, M1 Macs are as capable of gaming as entry-level gaming PCs. This is a simple, irrefutable fact. The problem is that the bulk of the gaming community are immature, aggressive kids with preconceived notions. And as long as these notions persist, we won't have many games on macOS, because why would anyone target a platform everyone thinks is crap?
It won't gonna change because of Apple. It's a crap already. And yet, you are expecting more huh?
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
You are ignoring previous and current PC that existed before. I gave you OS share and yet you failed to prove it.

What does the OS share have to do with this? We are talking about how many PCs can run games, aren't we?

Gamers don't care about capable Mac. The want PC.

Gamers care about whatever runs their games. If — academically speaking — at some point in the future Macs will run their games better, gamers will want Macs.


Being a GPU programmer does not mean you know well about the gaming industry. Clearly, you have no info to support the claim.

What claim? Reasoning is not one of your strong points, is it?
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,127
2,707
Metal is by far the best GPU API I know.
I agree, but it does not matter. The support is not there and developing specifically for macOS is expensive. Given the current (messy) state of Unity and Unreal on macOS doesn’t help either for cross platform. I’d be surprised if anyone is making that commitment for 3% gaming market share. That’s not just for Steam, the 3% is consistent in the industry. I’d happily dump Nvidia If I could, but I doubt it’s gonna happen.

I’m still in touch with some people at game developers, some at Ubi among others and it’s always the same. If a port is “free” they’ll take it. If they have to put lots of money into it, it’s a pass. I did the math for a $150M game with cost and profit for Windows/Mac in another thread.

End of the story, want to play games, get a Windows PC with Nvidia GPU. Btw, why do we need yet another thread for this? It feels like every 2-3 weeks a ”gaming coming to Mac” post is starting this all over.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
I agree, but it does not matter. The support is not there and developing specifically for macOS is expensive. Given the current (messy) state of Unity and Unreal on macOS doesn’t help either for cross platform. I’d be surprised if anyone is making that commitment for 3% gaming market share. That’s not just for Steam, the 3% is consistent in the industry. I’d happily dump Nvidia If I could, but I doubt it’s gonna happen.

I agree fully. But I am not talking about today. I am talking about the future. These things won't happen overnight. However, if Apple Silicon rollout is a success and delivers the expected performance, plus, if Apple continues delivering good tools, things will likely change. Tooling will improve, porting games to Mac will become cheaper, and there will be success stories that will encourage both the Mac users to ask louder "hey, were is my Mac port?" as well as the developer to target the Mac.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Metal is by far the best GPU API I know.
So what. Take a look at the Betamax vs. VHS battle, betamax had better recording quality, yet they lost out.

Metal may be better (I truly don't know) but you're still talking about a small subset of Mac's 10% market share. There's little incentive for AAA publishers to spend time, money and developers to write and support a platform where the prospect of profits may very be less then what they invested to develop the game. That is the cost of supporting that platform exceeds any potential profits.
 

panjandrum

macrumors 6502a
Sep 22, 2009
732
919
United States
This is an argument that, so far, has literally never gone away. Ultimately it comes down to game availability and with the removal of BootCamp any serious gaming on the Mac has a massive hurdle to overcome. Amusingly it comes simultaneously with hardware that's finally good enough, at a consumer price-point, to actually be usable. At least at the higher tiers Mac equipment has gamed just fine in BootCamp for the vast majority of gamers since the switch to Intel and Bootcamp became a thing.

Sure, there are some gamers for whom the Mac just isn't going to work; I'm one of them, but we are rare; I long ago outgrew anything any Mac outside a MacPro could possibly even dream of doing, but I'm on the lunatic fringe of PC gaming and have been for over a decade now (stereoscopy, moderately high-end racing sim FFB equipment, Pimax HMD, etc. I'm pushing over 4K per eye plus stereoscopy plus head tracking at 45fps+1 interpolated frame for every one real frame or 90fps all rendered frames depending on title.) But just because there are a TINY percentage of people like me out there doesn't mean the Mac couldn't game. It certainly could; it was just that most people are a--h--es and think that only they way *they* happen to do something has any merit. That's just BS. Most people, even people who enjoy 'AAA' windows games are actually just fine with a game that runs reasonably well at 1080p or 2560x1440 or something like that on a flat screen.Anyone saying your Mac, with a reasonably decent GPU, couldn't game was just gatekeeper sadly trying to make him or herself feel special.

Now that's a bit more true of course; now even the base-level the hardware *could* do it, but unless you want to jump through incredible software contortions to get things running through virtual machines it's not going to happen because most games are Windows only.

All we can really hope for is that Microsoft will release the ARM version of Windows to the general public with an 'emulator' that works well enough for games (remembering that most games get throttled by GPU not CPU) and THEN Apple writes the drivers necessary to make BootCamp a reality again. It's probably not going to happen, and market-share remains too small to attract much attention for a large number of Mac specific titles or ports, even though the hardware is now reasonably capable at the entry price point.

With Steam remote play, it's now extremely easy to build your own streaming rig, and if your outgoing internet is reasonably capable you can even do it across the internet. That's a perfectly valid way to work things if you wish, and you won't need an especially capable Windows gaming machine to push the resolutions you'll be streaming, so if that's your primary goal you won't be spending a ton to get it done.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
I consider myself to be a reasonably competent GPU programmer. I have 20+ years of experience working with OpenGL, I know Metal quite well, and I try to keep up to date with DX12 and Vulkan. Metal is by far the best GPU API I know. Yes, Windows is mainstream for games, and most devs will target DX12. It does not invalidate my argument however. If one wants, one can develop cutting edge AAA games using Metal — it offers all the tools one needs, and in some cases (especially if you target Apple GPUs), it makes your job easier.
Metal, despite all apparent goodies, is macOS only. I can choose to believe metal is great all around, but dudes in the boardroom ain’t gonna “choose to believe” anything. Now, if game engines could be built using metal, then developing game for Mac would be a bit more appealing. Not sure how those plays out as I’m not in that industry. But Metal on its own is going to be overwhelmingly amazing over DX12 and Vulkan before those product managers can raise their eyebrow and give it a second thought, a.k.a, opportunity cost. I have a feeling Metal is still far from that.

Apple silicon Mac can change the equation a bit but the impact has yet to come. Plus, M1 iPad Pro only reaches the level of not running hot while playing genshin impact. I know, Terrible game to use as an Example but it is well known enough so…
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,522
19,679
So what. Take a look at the Betamax vs. VHS battle, betamax had better recording quality, yet they lost out.

Metal may be better (I truly don't know) but you're still talking about a small subset of Mac's 10% market share. There's little incentive for AAA publishers to spend time, money and developers to write and support a platform where the prospect of profits may very be less then what they invested to develop the game. That is the cost of supporting that platform exceeds any potential profits.
Metal, despite all apparent goodies, is macOS only. I can choose to believe metal is great all around, but dudes in the boardroom ain’t gonna “choose to believe” anything. Now, if game engines could be built using metal, then developing game for Mac would be a bit more appealing. Not sure how those plays out as I’m not in that industry. But Metal on its own is going to be overwhelmingly amazing over DX12 and Vulkan before those product managers can raise their eyebrow and give it a second thought, a.k.a, opportunity cost. I have a feeling Metal is still far from that.

Apple silicon Mac can change the equation a bit but the impact has yet to come. Plus, M1 iPad Pro only reaches the level of not running hot while playing genshin impact. I know, Terrible game to use as an Example but it is well known enough so…

You both are spot on. But here is the thing, Metal does not compete against DX12 or Vulkan... they are simply different APIs. You don't have to rebuild your engine in Metal to ship your title on macOS. There are compatibility layers like MoltenVK which work very well... this is not an "all in" vs. "nothing" scenario. You can control the cost, if you plan ahead a bit. And sure, you still have to do testing and other annoying stuff, but you already have to do it for all the major GPU vendors and GPU generations.

I fully agree that right now, the situation is not the best and that the incentives for developers (especially with AAA titles) to go after the Mac market are slim. But again, I am talking about what might happen in a couple of years, not today. We will have more Macs with decent GPU performance. We will have better tools. And most importantly for game developers, we will have a unified, predictable platform. Developing games in OpenGL times was a huge mess — every GPU had it's own unique behavior and its own slow and fast paths. If you wanted to take good advantage of the hardware, you basically wrote dozens of paths in your engine that would change depending on which GPU or even driver version you were running. Developing and testing for Apple GPUs in comparison is a breeze. You get unified hardware with well defined behavior. From the game dev's perspective, an Apple Silicon Mac is essentially a console.

So yeah, I am hopeful for the future. It will take time, and it is not without risks, but I think that by doing their own thing, Apple will have a competitive advantage in the long run. Five years from now, some games might even run better on Macs, because Nvidia and AMD GPUs will lack some features that is inherent to Apple.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
How is Apple preventing other gaming platforms on macOS? MacOS is open and anyone can put whatever software they like on it. I think you mean iOS.
iOs is open as well.
Anyone can deploy a game (or any software) directly to an iPad/iPhone through a paid gateway ( if desired ) without using the Apple Store. You only have to pay for advertising, build out a nice front end, handle the payment gateway and PCI compliance, storage and ensure you have enough bandwidth to handle the traffic.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
786
899
Atlanta, GA
iOs is open as well.
Anyone can deploy a game (or any software) directly to an iPad/iPhone through a paid gateway ( if desired ) without using the Apple Store. You only have to pay for advertising, build out a nice front end, handle the payment gateway and PCI compliance, storage and ensure you have enough bandwidth to handle the traffic.

Isn't the fact that payments have to go through Apple the reason Epic is suing them?
 

AxiomaticRubric

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2010
945
1,154
On Mars, Praising the Omnissiah
Gaming on mac really isn’t Apples problem. The APIs are there the hardware is there it’s just up to the developers to use it.

While the graphics hardware isn’t as powerful as you can get on other platforms it sure as hell isn’t an excuse to not make good games. Heck look at Nintendo and all the awesome games they can make on ”weak” hardware.

Better graphics does not make for a better game, I wish developers in general focused more on game play than shiny exterior.

^ This

I’ve been gaming on the Mac from the beginning. During the Mac Plus / Mac II days there were some titles that were Mac only. Sometimes these games were more fun than anything available for DOS, because the developers had to put more effort into creativity and storytelling.

Some examples:

Dark Castle
Journey
The Colony
Quarterstaff: The Tomb of Setmoth
etc.
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
What does the OS share have to do with this? We are talking about how many PCs can run games, aren't we?
That proves that there are more gamers on PC than Mac. Stop ignoring the fact.

Gamers care about whatever runs their games. If — academically speaking — at some point in the future Macs will run their games better, gamers will want Macs.
That's your opinion after all which is delusional. That's why Apple isn't interesting in Mac gaming.
 

arvinsim

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2018
823
1,143
Did you just say that around 80% of gaming laptops are poor for gaming?
Unironically, laptops ARE poor for gaming relative to their value no matter what marketing says.

And yes, 30-40 fps is not considered playable today. What are we, in the 90's?
 

sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,838
1,706
iOs is open as well.
Anyone can deploy a game (or any software) directly to an iPad/iPhone through a paid gateway ( if desired ) without using the Apple Store. You only have to pay for advertising, build out a nice front end, handle the payment gateway and PCI compliance, storage and ensure you have enough bandwidth to handle the traffic.
How come Apple blocked xCloud for?
 
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