A gamer's lament: Apple please let us game on the Mac!

[BeefCake 15]

I agree with your sentiment and can assure you gaming is coming but let them work out the transition to a whole new CPU platform first. It sounds simple in theory but transitioning to a new file system, new CPU architecture and maintaining all else with very little catastrophic events is pretty heroic. I know everyone talks about how much money they have but still money doesn't solve all problems or else many other companies in history wouldn't have fallen *Intel* to their demise.

 

[JMacHack]

Blizzard used to support MacOS in smart and predictable ways, starting all the way back with the first three Warcraft games (CDs with Windows and Mac versions on it). That was how it was done with Blizzard from the beginning. That support structure went on through Starcraft and World of Warcraft, pretty much (minus the physical discs) until Overwatch was released.

Beginning with that release, Blizzard’s support for MacOS has been nonexistent.

That’s Activision’s influence. Blizzard isn’t Blizzard anymore.

 

[09872738]

How so?

Well, in my rulebook it is not rational to decide a purchase decision before considering ups and downs.

Or in other words, knowing what you want without knowing why you want it is not rational

 

[JMacHack]

Because they already did. PC and console are dominating the gaming market and Steam stat proves it. How will you going to take the market share back without try? Do or do not, there is no try.

There’s zero point in trying though, the PC gaming community is hostile to Apple, and Apple has the biggest share of the biggest gaming market: mobile.

 

[sunny5]

There’s zero point in trying though, the PC gaming community is hostile to Apple, and Apple has the biggest share of the biggest gaming market: mobile.

Mobile aren't PC/Console. They are totally different.

 

[JMacHack]

Mobile aren't PC/Console. They are totally different.

As a culture, yes they are different.

As a market, they are not different.

Unless there’s a PC gaming enthusiast running projects at Apple, there’s no incentive to change course. And there’s more disincentives to cater to PCMR types than reward, financially speaking.

All I’m saying is that Apple will likely never attempt to take on PC gaming, and if they did, they would get nowhere due to the culture of PC gamers.

 

[tubular]

It's not the lack of NVidia cards that keep AAA games away.

Apple has decided to go after the casual gaming market, more or less meaning everything that isn't AAA. It's a business decision. They've been sorta back-and-forth on that over the last almost-forty-years, which has made it a painful topic, but it's not at all hard to work out where they are now.

So today the Mac gets two kinds of games.

Only the biggest of the big properties now have the resources to go after Mac in a cross-platform way, because Apple has deprecated OpenGL but has not embraced Vulkan (leaving MoltenVK in the hands of open-source developers), and that means that cross-platform development has a huge hurdle. You'll get the most giant of the giant freemium MMPORGs, and that's it.

And indies that are Mac-first can create games for the Arcade, but nobody's expecting an AAA game there.

And it looks like Apple's doing pretty well there too. So the Mac and iStuff *are* gaming platforms, just not AAA gaming platforms.

It may be that Metal 2 is great. They've had plenty of time to grow it and mature it. And I'm very curious about the GPU capabilities of the upcoming M2. But Apple has played hot-and-cold-and-hot-and-cold with the game companies, while Microsoft played hot-and-hot-and-hot-and-hot. There are consequences for both.

I've noticed that some gamers like define the gaming community as only those who play AAA games. It's like when Texans say that Texas is "real America." It is, but so is the rest of America. And non-AAA games are ... games.

 

[ikir]

With metal, Apple Silicon, the right path is ahead but it will take a lot of time. eGPU support could become a reality but let’s see what M1X and M2 can achieve.

 

[sunny5]

As a culture, yes they are different.

As a market, they are not different.

Unless there’s a PC gaming enthusiast running projects at Apple, there’s no incentive to change course. And there’s more disincentives to cater to PCMR types than reward, financially speaking.

All I’m saying is that Apple will likely never attempt to take on PC gaming, and if they did, they would get nowhere due to the culture of PC gamers.

The device is different and therefore, it's different. If not, how come many games aren't available on macOS?

 

[jeanlain]

It's not the lack of NVidia cards that keep AAA games away.

Apple has decided to go after the casual gaming market, more or less meaning everything that isn't AAA. It's a business decision. They've been sorta back-and-forth on that over the last almost-forty-years, which has made it a painful topic, but it's not at all hard to work out where they are now.

I don't think the lack of AAA games reflects a business decision from Apple, rather a business decision from game studios and publishers.
These require a large user base so that sales cover development and support costs, and that the Mac has always had insufficient market share. That's all.
It didn't help that Macs historically had poor GPUs, and development cost may be increased by the lack of cross-platform APIs. But really, these two won't aren't the main issue. It's all about the Mac market share.
Heck, most games using Unity or UE4 don't have macOS versions, even though these IDEs support macOS. So it's not a question of APIs and tooling. These developers just don't want to bother with such a minorit platform.

iOS got casual games because that's all you can play on a phone.

 

[JMacHack]

The device is different and therefore, it's different. If not, how come many games aren't available on macOS?

I did not say the devices were the same, I said the market is the same. The biggest money maker in gaming is mobile phones, of which Apple takes the most profits.

Knowing that, there’s little financial reward going balls deep into PC gaming.

 

[VertPin]

I don't think Apple needs to collaborate with AMD/ NVIDIA when they're doing so well with Apple Silicon.


Once Apple builds the hardware that can compete with PCs, I think that might change. Besides, Blizzard caters to MacOS, why do you think they do that?



At one time Intel dominated the CPU market. That picture looks a lot different now.

They absolutely need to work together.

 

[diamond.g]

To appease a group that is actively hostile to Apple? That’s silly. Gamers are going to go to PC or Console either way.

The latest game I enjoyed was DUSK. And I played it on my Mac. My comment about smaller titles being better mostly applies to the boomershooter renaissance happening.

You should try them, I thought they were done well.

As a culture, yes they are different.

As a market, they are not different.

Unless there’s a PC gaming enthusiast running projects at Apple, there’s no incentive to change course. And there’s more disincentives to cater to PCMR types than reward, financially speaking.

All I’m saying is that Apple will likely never attempt to take on PC gaming, and if they did, they would get nowhere due to the culture of PC gamers.

At least for a company like Activision-Blizzard they still consider Console/PC/Mobile as separate markets at least when it comes to their shareholders. It is likely they are not the only ones (otherwise why bother with PC/Console at all if all the money is in Mobile).

 

[DesignedByNino]

When Apple came out with EGPU support, I saw a dim light at the end of the tunnel. I could dual boot my Mac and run a decent graphics card, even if there was a slight loss in frames from thunderbolt.

Now with Apple Silicon, the support for EGPUs have been dropped, and you no longer can dual boot and run Windows natively. So now if you want to game, you have to have a separately maintain another system or settle for Apple Arcade (yawn). Right now, I maintain a PC for gaming. I pull out a separate keyboard, mouse, audio interface each time I want to casually play. Each time I use a Microsoft product, I want to hang myself and makes me appreciate the Apple ecosystem more.

Gaming isn't just for nerds anymore. It's a common form of entertainment. The phrase "Macs don't game" really needs to die. Hopefully Apple Silicon can produce some killer GPUs to persuade gaming studios to develop their games on this platform.

This is my dream.

Really, are those really our problems today ?

I get the point of wanting to get your money’s worth from a “costly” mac computer. Or the theory that a computer at this price range should allow you more freedom to use it as you please, not in a “professional” only way.

But I believe there is more to this, I believe Apple’s vision or my imagining of it, is a world where you use your device, get what you need to get done, and then move on with your life. Their products just “support” your way of doing things and enable you to do it “fast”, intuitively and seamlessly.

As far as I see this, gaming isn’t really fitting in this sort of “lifestyle” workflow. From this point of view gaming is something “younger” people do on their phones, not the serious and productive mac owner. Again, this just my take on the story.

I used to game with the “bros” the weekends in high school, but looking back at it, the more I steered towards the Apple ecosystem, the less I felt the need to use my device (phone/ mac) and the more I enjoyed doing other things, going out more, running, being active, locking away 2-3 to 4 hours to just look at a screen and “play a game” was not exciting anymore. This is how I believe Apple sees it too, devices should help and support our work and lifestyle, not create it.

This is why I like the Apple watch the most out of all their products, it embodies this vision exactly.

I hope we can enjoy some different points of view here.

 

[JMacHack]

At least for a company like Activision-Blizzard they still consider Console/PC/Mobile as separate markets at least when it comes to their shareholders. It is likely they are not the only ones (otherwise why bother with PC/Console at all if all the money is in Mobile).

It’s not totally comparable, ActiBlizz has had a presence in all those markets to begin with. Naturally they don’t want to just pull out of a market they have a strong presence in. They’re also a provider of software, not hardware.

Apple on the other hand, has only a strong presence in the mobile market. It would take considerably more effort to enter the PC gaming market, to sell hardware.

For the record, I did not say “all the profits are in mobile gaming”, I said the biggest and most lucrative market is mobile gaming, which is true.

 

[JMacHack]

I used to game with the “bros” the weekends in high school, but looking back at it, the more I steered towards the Apple ecosystem, the less I felt the need to use my device (phone/ mac) and the more I enjoyed doing other things, going out more, running, being active, locking away 2-3 to 4 hours to just look at a screen and “play a game” was not exciting anymore. This is how I believe Apple sees it too, devices should help and support our work and lifestyle, not create it.

This is why I like the Apple watch the most out of all their products, it embodies this vision exactly.

I hope we can enjoy some different points of view here.

My experience is similar to yours, I gradually played less games as time went on. But I did it consciously, being outside and working with my hands is far better for my physical and mental health than sitting inside playing games. It’s also because my friend group played less games as time went on, we’re all old now lol.

Still, it’s not just about our needs. There are plenty of others that still play games with their bros, younger or older, that would like to play on their Mac. That’s just as valid as our view.

 

[sunny5]

I did not say the devices were the same, I said the market is the same. The biggest money maker in gaming is mobile phones, of which Apple takes the most profits.

Knowing that, there’s little financial reward going balls deep into PC gaming.

And your statement is still not convincing. I said how come they aren't many games if they are in the same market?

 

[Irishman]

That’s Activision’s influence. Blizzard isn’t Blizzard anymore.

I can't disagree with you. Just like id isn't id since bethesda acquired them.

 

[JMacHack]

And your statement is still not convincing. I said how come they aren't many games if they are in the same market?

I’ll try and explain this as clearly as possible:

There are games that people like to play.
These people spend money on games they like to play.
Some people like to play games on their phones
Some people like to play games on their computers
The people who like to play games on their phones pay more money than the people who like to play games on their computers
This is under the term “gaming market”

People who like to play games on their phones, often like Apple phones.
People who like to play games on their computers, often do not like Apple computers.

Apple would have a difficult time convincing the people who play games on their computers to buy an Apple Computer to play games.
Apple has an easier time convincing people who play games on their phones to buy an Apple phone.
Therefore, Apple will likely attempt to sell phones to people who play games on their phones, rather than the people who play games on their computers.

Some games are made for phones
Some games are made for computers
Often these games are not the same.
Many games made for computers cannot run on phones.
But because it is a game, it’s a part of the “gaming market”

This means Apple, would be putting a lot of effort into entering a smaller, less profitable section of the market, that doesn’t want their computers.
This is silly, when Apple has a strong presence in a different section of the market, which makes more money.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Pursuing the AAA gaming market is a money pit and Apple has no interested in money pits, it’s that simple. Trying to prop up the next to last place platform (higher than only Linux, and that is debatable) is just not worth the time or effort for Apple. The move to Apple silicon may help with mobile gaming, but console/PC-based gaming is just left out. Apple is pursuing their own GPU strategy and AMD/NVIDIA are out of the picture, end, stop, period and paragraph. Time to move on and tilt at other windmills.

 

[boswald]

I’m grateful I can’t play games on my Mac. I’d rather go without than bother maintaining 2 computers, since both are overpriced anyway.

Also, I think the majority of games are a waste of money; play it once, get bored and realize you blew another $60.

 

[Internet Enzyme]

This boils down to a few things. Apple needs to:

• Release Apple silicon computers that, in terms of real-time 3D graphics performance, are at least on par with something like the AMD Radeon 580 on the low-end and the Nvidia RTX 3080 on the high end.
• Provide developers tooling for and assistance with porting DirectX projects to Metal.
• Enter multi-year contracts with Ubisoft, EA, Activision, 2K, and Bethesda (among others).

Then, if we’re lucky and everything goes copacetic, by the time that their contracts end, these developers will want to develop for and sell their games on the Mac because the Mac gaming market will have matured and the customer base would be too notable to ignore.

 

[JouniS]

Also, I think the majority of games are a waste of money; play it once, get bored and realize you blew another $60.

The majority of any content is a waste of money, which is why you should pick what you buy carefully. However, games are probably the cheapest form of commercial entertainment, because that $60 game can easily last for hundreds of hours.

 

[tubular]

I don't think the lack of AAA games reflects a business decision from Apple, rather a business decision from game studios and publishers.

I don't mean to imply that Apple sat around the table and said, "You know, all these big AAA game makers who want to appear on the Mac platform, well, to hell with 'em."
I think it's more about the unintended consequences of Apple's come-and-go approach to games, which gradually convinced the major studios that cross-developing for the Mac was a much riskier proposition than for the PC. That might not have been the message Apple *wanted* to send, but their business decisions sent it all the same.

[Edit] While I'm on it, the only AAA game I play is Diablo III, although I'm looking forward to Diablo II Resurrected. AAA games are like movies, in the sense that they take a spectacular chunk of cash to make and can fall flat on their face when released, making them a very risky place to put your money. I have very few games but I play the hell out of them. I think Apple has decided that, for stability and predictability, they're better off with Arcade and (good) casual games rather than the potential boom and bust of the AAA games.

 

[arvinsim]

While FPS chases after 120FPS like crazy, RTS is 30FPS like forever. And not all RPG demands 60FPS either.

That's called "moving goalposts".

It's hilarious how people here try to lower the bar on gaming playability just so that Apple's M1 chip could clear it.