A New Browser is needed for Mac OS 9

[TheShortTimer]

Wait until a Voodoo5 6000 comes up...

Some comedian on there wants $110 USD, just for the mouse mat tie-in that promoted it! 😮

I paid plenty for mine, but not anywhere NEAR that much...they do come up if you want one and watch for it.

Interestingly enough, I bought mine and the 1ghz at the same time. Both showed up in separate B&W G3s on Ebay UK. It would have cost a pile of money to have them shipped here complete, and of course I'd have opened the boxes to find a pile of white plastic.

Instead, I had them shipped to my good friend @LightBulbFun , who stripped the 1ghz and the Voodoo out, along with some other goodies from those, and just shipped that to me. He got to keep the B&W towers, and also got to play with those two pieces for a few weeks before they got sent on to me.

I bought an industrial Pioneer Laserdisc unit (the LDV-4400 if anyone's wondering) from the US via eBay and it arrived to the UK in one piece. It had to be one of the most professionally packed purchases that I've ever made. With the level and layers of protection they included, nothing short of an explosion would've caused any damage.

 

[Amethyst1]

Some comedian on there wants $110 USD, just for the mouse mat tie-in that promoted it! 😮

6000s can easily go for thousands, so that's not too surprising.

 

[swamprock]

I bought an industrial Pioneer Laserdisc unit (the LDV-4400 if anyone's wondering) from the US via eBay and it arrived to the UK in one piece. It had to be one of the most professionally packed purchases that I've ever made. With the level and layers of protection they included, nothing short of an explosion would've caused any damage.

For an arcade machine, or for home viewing? Does it actually WORK?

 

[TheShortTimer]

For an arcade machine, or for home viewing? Does it actually WORK?

It definitely works: I've owned that machine for over a decade and it's built to last!

Possibly TLDR:

I own two Pioneer players, the other is a European consumer model (CLD-D925) which I use mainly for home viewing because it can play NTSC and PAL discs, plays both sides of a disc without the need for a manual flip and has an AC-3 output and a TOSLINK output. In terms of convenience and specs, it's Pioneers best release for the Euro consumer market but it falls short for other tasks.

Which is where the LDV-4400 comes in - for video capturing the industrial models are the best choice (if you haven't got the budget to find the high-end HLD range) because the dot crawl and video noise are far reduced, which makes for a much cleaner image and less de-noising work to carry out later. I have a number of Laserdiscs that have never received a digital home video release or have extras which haven't been carried over to their DVD/Blu-ray successors so I use the industrial model for video capturing and the consumer player for grabbing the PCM lossless audio via the TOSLINK.

It would be fun to get a serial cable and play some of the arcade games on the industrial machine, as it has the interface and was designed with those purposes in mind but the discs are so expensive!

 

[swamprock]

It definitely works: I've owned that machine for over a decade and it's built to last!

Possibly TLDR:

I own two Pioneer players, the other is a European consumer model (CLD-D925) which I use mainly for home viewing because it can play NTSC and PAL discs, plays both sides of a disc without the need for a manual flip and has an AC-3 output and a TOSLINK output. In terms of convenience and specs, it's Pioneers best release for the Euro consumer market but it falls short for other tasks.

Which is where the LDV-4400 comes in - for video capturing the industrial models are the best choice (if you haven't got the budget to find the high-end HLD range) because the dot crawl and video noise are far reduced, which makes for a much cleaner image and less de-noising work to carry out later. I have a number of Laserdiscs that have never received a digital home video release or have extras which haven't been carried over to their DVD/Blu-ray successors so I use the industrial model for video capturing and the consumer player for grabbing the PCM lossless audio via the TOSLINK.

It would be fun to get a serial cable and play some of the arcade games on the industrial machine, as it has the interface and was designed with those purposes in mind but the discs are so expensive!

Very cool! I always thought that those old players were problematic, but I stand corrected. Gottta love old tech. I have one of the later consumer players myself, and my hell is finding discs with no bit rot. At least they're cheap

 

[TheShortTimer]

Very cool! I always thought that those old players were problematic, but I stand corrected. Gottta love old tech. I have one of the later consumer players myself, and my hell is finding discs with no bit rot. At least they're cheap

If you haven't already checked it out, the Laserdisc Database is a good source of info on which discs particularly suffer from rot issues.

Rather than take over this thread with LD drooling, you're welcome to PM me if you want to discuss this more.

 

[alex_free]

Just saw a poll on this forum for what OS people use on their PPC Macs and about 25% voted that they use Mac OS 9 or earlier.
The only browser available for that OS (that is most modern) is Classilla and the same is true for every version of OS X under 10.4.
Wikipedia said the browser has not had any updates in 5 years or more, and Classilla renders websites terrible or not at all. No security updates, nothing. Abandoned.
Is there any way to develop a new browser for OS 9 (like TenFourFox) or something similar?
Many people still use the Classic OS, so a good browser should be available for them to use, right?
Another stupid idea, maybe, but if possible it would be well worth it to put in some hard work to make an up to date browser for OS 9/early versions of OS X

The best solution I know of for OS 9 is to use command line web browsers over macSSH. My Mac OS X PPC Links2 app works great for this.

It should also be possible to get the graphics mode working over something like MacX, but I haven’t messed with that yet.

 

[Macbookprodude]

The best solution I know of for OS 9 is to use command line web browsers over macSSH. My Mac OS X PPC Links2 app works great for this.

It should also be possible to get the graphics mode working over something like MacX, but I haven’t messed with that yet.

How do you do MacSsh ?? According to Cameron Kaiser Classila is not abandoned, just that he is busy trying to maintain ten4fox for G4 and G5.

 

[Project Alice]

According to Cameron Kaiser Classila is not abandoned, just that he is busy trying to maintain ten4fox for G4 and G5.

For 5 years? lol

 

[Macbookprodude]

Then perhaps maybe you can revise it ? If you can get Snow Leopard to run on PPC, then I assume adding the latest security in classila or any of the others will be no issue ? Gladly pay you for it.

 

[Project Alice]

Then perhaps maybe you can revise it ? If you can get Snow Leopard to run on PPC, then I assume adding the latest security in classila or any of the others will be no issue ? Gladly pay you for it.

That isn't me. I'm not a developer. I only linked to the thread about the person who is working on that.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Sorry, but let him know i will gladly pay him to fix OS 9. I think adding in the updated security algorithms shouldn’t be an issue with Classila or IE5.1.7.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Sorry, but let him know i will gladly pay him to fix OS 9. I think adding in the updated security algorithms shouldn’t be an issue with Classila or IE5.1.7.

It might be more realistic to adapt a proxy solution:

WebOne - proxy for old browsers to make them Web 2.0-capable

I found this project on the vogons forum https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=67165 I’ve tested webone with Safari 4.1.3, and it was able to access sites that were previously unreachable due to lack of compatibility with modern security cyphers. Just thought it was interesting.

forums.macrumors.com

Is ''Web Rendering Proxy'' Any Good?

I know this is a dumb ''noob'' question here, but I've been seeing this pop up now and again on these forums, using a Web Rendering Proxy to make the most out of older web browsers on system 7, Mac OS 8, and 9, such as Internet Explorer 5 and Classilla. I get the basic idea, using gif images to...

forums.macrumors.com

Similar in effect to the one run for Symbian phones:

About Ovi Proxy

Surf the Internet in more powerful and efficient ways.

www.ovi.h1n.ru

 

[Macbookprodude]

Does it work for OS 9 ? How would I run it ?

 

[alex_free]

How do you do MacSsh ?? According to Cameron Kaiser Classila is not abandoned, just that he is busy trying to maintain ten4fox for G4 and G5.

Install Links2 on a PPC Mac, install MacSSH2 on Mac OS 9, connect both to the same network, follow the setup docs of MacSSH, disable compression completely so it connects to modern SSH clients, and then connect via SSH and execute the text mode of Links2.

Of course you could use any computer with SSH and Links2, but for recent OpenSSH versions you’ll have to enable some insecure options for compatibility.

 

[christiann]

How about Classila? It was designed for the Classic Mac OS. I use it, works great!

 

[Macbookprodude]

20 years later its not worth the pain and stress it has caused me when I got back into PPC fully for the last 3 years - it has caused me sleepless nights, SEVERE TRAMA, SEVERE depression, yes, even thoughts of taking of my life due to other factors. No, its not worth it anymore.. EMBRACE ARM.. that is the future and this is POWERPC in memory - OS 9 is useless garbage.

 

[bunnspecial]

20 years later its not worth the pain and stress it has caused me when I got back into PPC fully for the last 3 years - it has caused me sleepless nights, SEVERE TRAMA, SEVERE depression, yes, even thoughts of taking of my life due to other factors. No, its not worth it anymore.. EMBRACE ARM.. that is the future and this is POWERPC in memory - OS 9 is useless garbage.

I don't know what to say to this, especially as I don't want to come across as cold and callous.

At this point, I think for most of us PowerPC Macs are a hobby. They're a fun hobby and I don't want to downplay those who still use them as part of their workflow(as I do sometimes) or who rely on them in critical roles.

If a computer or piece of technology is causing you the kind of problems you're describing, please FIRST seek professional help. I don't mean that in a dismissive or joking way, but I say that out of genuine concern for you and what you've posted. I think @A.Goldberg would agree on this. Please, please talk to someone about this.

With that said, though, if it's a continued source of the stress that you describe, yes it is something that you do need to cut out of your life without hesitation.

 

[James Gryphon]

I was going to post something in response, but @bunnspecial's post hits on the gist of it. The only thing that I would add is that the best machine is the machine that is best for you. It's easy for old Mac people stuck on 'ideals' and abstract principles to stick up their nose at things that are 'good enough' and chase after their notion of a perfect system, but the primary goals were always to make things easier, and to save time (and thus lives). Everybody is different. If an ARM Mac, or an Intel Mac, or an iPad, or a Windows box, work and do what you want them to do, you should use one of those. If it's not fun for you to try to deal with the increasing incompatibility with the modern world, don't: either use the PPC machine for offline things, like games, or sell it and use the extra money to buy something that will help and not hinder you.

@christiann: Well, I suppose 'great' is a relative term, but it has two major flaws that seriously impede its usability these days. Firstly, most sites render exceptionally badly, due to CSS and JS; sometimes even to the extent that a Lynx-like browser that only renders text would be better than it is at allowing you to access content. Secondly, and more seriously, SSL requirements mean that roughly 90% of all websites are completely inaccessible, regardless of whether you could render the site or not when you had it. Both of these can be mitigated to a certain extent; a gentleman in Russia is doing fine work in the latter area with his 'WebOne' proxy. However, it's fair to say that if you're coming from a modern machine, or if you're a time traveler from 1999 when everything worked with IE 5 , the Classilla experience today can be considered broken.

 

[christiann]

I don't know what to say to this, especially as I don't want to come across as cold and callous.

At this point, I think for most of us PowerPC Macs are a hobby. They're a fun hobby and I don't want to downplay those who still use them as part of their workflow(as I do sometimes) or who rely on them in critical roles.

If a computer or piece of technology is causing you the kind of problems you're describing, please FIRST seek professional help. I don't mean that in a dismissive or joking way, but I say that out of genuine concern for you and what you've posted. I think @A.Goldberg would agree on this. Please, please talk to someone about this.

With that said, though, if it's a continued source of the stress that you describe, yes it is something that you do need to cut out of your life without hesitation.

Yeah, thanks for summing it up.. Sorry to hear that
Keep in mind you could upgrade to an early version of OS X, like Jaguar. Or just upgrade to Tiger, and run classic mode. Stress-free?

Again, sorry.

 

[James Gryphon]

Jaguar was still good for some very niche cases (according to the Classic Mac networking guide). That said, I have first-hand experience from my time with Panther: any X version before Tiger seems basically unmaintained. It's odd, considering how big the OS X leap was at the time, but nowadays you probably gain more in terms of compatibility going from 10.3 -> 10.4 than you do 9 -> 10.3.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

The big thing there is just how long 10.4 was the "current, stable" release. Even up through 10.3, Mac OS X was still in its "growing/maturing" phase. 10.4 was basically the first "feature complete" version. The Intel transition then happened early on in Tiger's tenure, and Apple was busy concentrating on that to worry about a new OS.

Combined with the fact that so much software continued to support 10.4 even a couple OS versions later, just to maintain backward compatibility with PowerPC - up until PPC was firmly dropped from companies' support lists.

 

[z970]

Keep in mind you could upgrade to an early version of OS X, like Jaguar. Or just upgrade to Tiger, and run classic mode.

You should upgrade to Mac OS X for a modern experience.

I'd suggest an upgrade to 10.4 or 10.5 for a more modern browser, and a more modern experience.

Here's what I think about that...

Spoiler: The Meaning Of Life Enclosed Within

You should upgrade to Mac OS X for a more modern experience.

I'm sorry... This was just such a fun thread... 🤣

 

[Amethyst1]

Keep in mind you could upgrade to an early version of OS X, like Jaguar.

Jaguar doesn't give you a modern browser (and Opera Mini isn't a feasible solution).
[automerge]1592465443[/automerge]

I'm sorry. This was just such a fun thread... 🤣

Shhh... Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[A.Goldberg]

20 years later its not worth the pain and stress it has caused me when I got back into PPC fully for the last 3 years - it has caused me sleepless nights, SEVERE TRAMA, SEVERE depression, yes, even thoughts of taking of my life due to other factors. No, its not worth it anymore.. EMBRACE ARM.. that is the future and this is POWERPC in memory - OS 9 is useless garbage.

I don't know what to say to this, especially as I don't want to come across as cold and callous.

At this point, I think for most of us PowerPC Macs are a hobby. They're a fun hobby and I don't want to downplay those who still use them as part of their workflow(as I do sometimes) or who rely on them in critical roles.

If a computer or piece of technology is causing you the kind of problems you're describing, please FIRST seek professional help. I don't mean that in a dismissive or joking way, but I say that out of genuine concern for you and what you've posted. I think @A.Goldberg would agree on this. Please, please talk to someone about this.

With that said, though, if it's a continued source of the stress that you describe, yes it is something that you do need to cut out of your life without hesitation.

@bunnspecial is absolutely correct. If you are experiencing these feelings please reach out for help. If you need advice on who to talk to, I suggest reaching out to your primary care doctor. If you don’t feel comfortable doing so, perhaps ask a trusted friend or family member to help get the ball rolling. Many services are using telehealth due to COVID, which makes it very easy. You don’t have to go through life feeling this way. Please be safe and take care of yourself.