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MP 7,1 Adobe CC / Mac Pro 7,1 / W7500X
- Thread starter daveedjackson
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Made it almost a full week with no unexpected logouts/shutdowns, but just had a "new" type of crash (in AI of course!).
Computer was at sleep, but AI was left open (from working in it about an hour this afternoon without incident). I woke the computer up, opened a new AI document. Typed in one word of point-text. Hit the "s" (shortcut) key and began dragging with the mouse to scale the text. It started to visually scale on-screen, then AI just disappeared. Then AI reopened with the crash report. Computer did not shut down or logout - only AI just quit (so at least better than last week!)
I still "feel" like there is an issue with Adobe apps and font issues in conjunction with the W5700X. Not only did removing and reinstalling Suitcase Fusion Adobe plugins seem to improve things until today, but another thing is (in my case) only AI and InDesign have crashed on me so far - both applications where I usually grab the text tool first. So far Photoshop has not crashed on me (probably because I have not tried to type any text in it)?
I also see on both my computers that Catalina has automatically installed 771 locked system fonts! Really? Most of which are probably never used in America. That seems like a lot of unnecessary load placed on apps like AI and InDesign as most will never be accessed. Add to that all the fonts you might add and you have some really heavy font menus! Of course, this does not explain why none of the Adobe apps have crashed running Catalina on my MacBook since Catalina came out almost a year ago. One thing that is different is the hardware including the graphics card.
Computer was at sleep, but AI was left open (from working in it about an hour this afternoon without incident). I woke the computer up, opened a new AI document. Typed in one word of point-text. Hit the "s" (shortcut) key and began dragging with the mouse to scale the text. It started to visually scale on-screen, then AI just disappeared. Then AI reopened with the crash report. Computer did not shut down or logout - only AI just quit (so at least better than last week!)
I still "feel" like there is an issue with Adobe apps and font issues in conjunction with the W5700X. Not only did removing and reinstalling Suitcase Fusion Adobe plugins seem to improve things until today, but another thing is (in my case) only AI and InDesign have crashed on me so far - both applications where I usually grab the text tool first. So far Photoshop has not crashed on me (probably because I have not tried to type any text in it)?
I also see on both my computers that Catalina has automatically installed 771 locked system fonts! Really? Most of which are probably never used in America. That seems like a lot of unnecessary load placed on apps like AI and InDesign as most will never be accessed. Add to that all the fonts you might add and you have some really heavy font menus! Of course, this does not explain why none of the Adobe apps have crashed running Catalina on my MacBook since Catalina came out almost a year ago. One thing that is different is the hardware including the graphics card.
Last week, there was a wonky xml file on the desktop and when it was clicked, AI was the default app that kept trying to open it. We deleted that file and changed from XtoCC to another software program, redid the xml and no issues with AI. So I'm saying, AI with the 7,1 can give strange behavior at times.
I have an open case with Adobe and Apple. Can I ask you what GPU are you using?
Adobe came back from their product team and basically said:
Thanks for the info! We shared the information with the product team and they suspect the issue may be due to hardware as majority of kernel panic cases in Apple computers are directly related to hardware issues. The Adobe products tend to use a lot of different system resources and a problem at the operating system level with any of them or faulty hardware (like a RAM module) could cause a kernel panic. Can you contact Apple support or their genius bar to check if they can provide some information?
So I don't seem to have any RAM issues before the system sleeps, so the comment about RAM is mute. If I was experiencing the crash all the time when loading an adobe app sure. But I only see the crashes after waking the system up. Clarification, I have tried leaving apps open and letting it sleep, but also closing everything and sleeping, and have still had the crash then on launching an app. I've sent a massive data dump to Apple, because there clearly is an issue. Not sure if it's to do with drivers, my GPU or what, but there is something fundamentally with this system having a meltdown.
Same as in my signature - the new W5700X GPU. What is in yours... same card right?
I also swapped out ALL my ram modules last week and still saw some of this behavior with both sets of ram - so probably not a ram issue.
Might add your name to the poll I am trying to take here:
7,1 experienced any freezes, shutdowns or auto-restarts? If so, which Graphics Card?
I have read several threads/posts from people who have experienced either screen freezes, unexpected power downs and/or restarts/logouts (including me). I have also seen a couple forum members who claim that when they switched to a Graphic Card other than the W5700X, that those problems...
forums.macrumors.com
so the latest from Apple. Install a clean version of Mac OSX which I've done. As the advisor said "then use it" but a pro system, I'm expected to use, without software? It's so bonkers. At the moment I can't put enough stress on it to replicate the issues. Pointing to an adobe issue. That or it's when there is stress on the GPU. Which I don't know how I can do without installing Adobe. I ran Cinebench, and that didn't crash it. AGH. It's like loose loose whatever I choose.
They are partly correct because they built it with no issues. And they have no control of the third-party software each person is now installing.
The problem is one software maker will blame the other for conflicting drivers. At this point, who is to blame? One will say they have to fix their coding, and vice-versa.
Which proves the point that Apple wants to control both the software and hardware so they can only blame themselves if ever.
FWIW, I use Adobe CC apps and haven't experienced a crash on my setup. So there's probably something with the specific GPU and/or drivers and the Adobe app.
The problem is one software maker will blame the other for conflicting drivers. At this point, who is to blame? One will say they have to fix their coding, and vice-versa.
Which proves the point that Apple wants to control both the software and hardware so they can only blame themselves if ever.
FWIW, I use Adobe CC apps and haven't experienced a crash on my setup. So there's probably something with the specific GPU and/or drivers and the Adobe app.
Apple isn't entirely in control of the components they don't manufacture. What they are in control is approving the release of those drivers for the systems they built. So yes and no that they are in control of all components which we assume they have tested before releasing into the public.
And the reason why Nvidia is now banned from Apple.
Also the reason why Apple is building their own components form now on so they have all the control.
And the reason why Nvidia is now banned from Apple.
Also the reason why Apple is building their own components form now on so they have all the control.
My apple system came with a W5700X installed. From Apple. An apple supplied GPU for this system. I didn't add it. Drivers shouldn't be the issue. Surely Adobe/Apple check that their systems work with software. It's incredibly hard to know if it's a GPU issue, without being able to run anything to test it. So Apple create a system which might be pro, and might work with pro apps. Seems absurd.
The main reasons a photographer/graphic designer/web designer buys a new long-awaited Mac Pro at such a high price is for user expandability and more GPU performance. As soon as you experience a problem, the advice is to "remove ALL PCI cards and peripherals and turn off all GPU rendering in your Adobe apps"! Everything you bought it for in the first place. Frustrating at the very least when your old 2012 Mac Pro is running everything without crashing albeit "slow".
As long as you are only running FCP or BlackMagic speed tests on YouTube, you are fine. People who run Adobe apps probably are not investing in the $50,000 model. We are at the lower end, but still 2-4 times the cost of a MacPro set-up in 2012 (I am at 3 times the cost so far and seeing minor speed gains offset by occasional crashes, restarts and diagnostics).
Hard to know where to point the finger since it is difficult for even me to reproduce the random problems much less diagnose the cause. One thing for sure... I am really disappointed in Adobe for not taking full advantage of what the new Mac Pro platform is capable of delivering. I played around in After Effects last week and I felt like I was still on my 2012 Mac Pro in High Sierra. In fact, if Apple had not abandoned the 5,1 with OS support I would not have purchased a 7,1. Stability trumps speed. Nothing more frustrating or embarrassing than buying a Ferrari only to call a tow truck!
So if you put your system to sleep. For a little while maybe 10-15 mins. So it actually sleeps. Then wake it up and launch say photoshop... and do stuff in it, or after effects or whatever. You don’t have crashes ?
I have not experienced any waking from sleep issues (knock on wood). I leave my MacPro turned on all the time, so it sleeps a lot (and of course every night). When it goes to sleep even my fans stop, but it wakes right up, no problem.
95% of my crashes/logouts (whether OS shutting down/restarting or just an app quitting) has been immediately or right after launching Illustrator or InDesign - usually right after I select a Text tool or am working with text in some way, but sometimes just crashed immediately after launch. I have only had one crash the past few days and it was only AI that crashed (not the OS). It seems like a lot of my issues are possibly created by fonts? I uninstalled and reinstalled my Suitcase Fusion Adobe app plugins last week and that seems to have helped a lot?
I only had one instance where the machine would not wake up and Apple thought that was because I may have forced a shutdown during the 10.15.4 to 10.15.5 update in progress?
It’s so bizarre so you are still having crashes due to adobe. Sorry I think my last message as a little confusing. It’s not a crash anything relating to sleeping. It’s about when my system has been aslee and wakes. It is fine. I can launch adobe software. But within minutes of launching. Doesn’t matter the activity of app, my system firstly starts to stick, like it’s under a heavy heavy load. Then eventually crashes itself.
I have only once had a freeze where the system was awake and I was not touching the mouse.
I have seen the following:
- Machine just powers off by itself (like someone pulled the power plug) - that just happened once the first day.
- Machine automatically logs out and restarts with the Apple logo/progress bar/login screen asking for password (usually when launching or using AI or InDesign) - this is my most common scenario. Usually the cursor will slow down or stutter just before the crash - sometimes with spinning beachball (in Acrobat Pro). If the cursor slows down or stops, a crash always follows.
- Selecting a file (single-click) in Finder causes freeze/log out (only happened once so far)
- Logged out during sleep (only once)
- App only crashes (not system) (only once so far in AI)
Are you still happy with the Vega II? May I ask if you have anything like red Apple or flickering during the Start and can you use the energy Options by default?
Have you changed only the Card or the complete MP?
Thanks in advance.
i had this issue with a 6,1 with D300's in the end the sysem was replaced with D500's and the problem went away. Stange how the same problems come back year after year even with different hardware, seems like the mac equvilent to blue screens restarts
I have got exactly the same problems on my MP with W5700X. Sometimes also glitches and flickering.
I have tried safe mode for several times with no Wake Up Problems or Kernel Panics. So it really seems that there is a problem with the W5700X :/
My understanding is the Illustrator 24.2.3 update is for a validation issue/fix, but I have not followed the last 2-3 updates extremely closely. There is also a Creative Cloud App update that must be installed (5.2.1.441). That might fix additional glitches across the board.
@Athraldur, go back and check my post history on this topic. AFAIC, it's not even a question that W5700X has issues and Apple support all but confirmed to me that this is the case.
I had two W5700X equipped systems with the exact same issues you (and other W5700X system owners) are experiencing. Freezes and/or kernel panics were a daily occurrence for me. I reluctantly decided to switch to Vega II (reluctant because didn't really need the extra GPU power and gave up added benefits of the W5700X).
Since switching to a Pro Vega II system the system has been stable (no hangs, freezes, or sputters), and it's been over two weeks now of working at my computer 12-16 hrs a day.
FWIW, pursuing this an Adobe issue is chasing a red herring. Adobe just happens to have a very popular application suite with multiple applications that directly utilize the GPU interface, so you're more likely to experience or hear about the GPU bug with Adobe apps. I saw similar issues with other applications (that also utlilize the GPU to render -- like Chrome, for example).
@Hotshoe
thank you very much for your answer and for sharing your experience – I really appreciate it. In the meantime I've read all of your Posts and I am close to order a Vega 2 (it is already in my Basket
). I only wait the next call with my Contact Person from Apple Support, very friendly and cooperatively but unfortunately no solution(s) so far…
As I can see you've changed the complete System to a MP with Vega 2 – right?
My return window is over and I hope that it will also work even if I´ll change only the W5700X against the Vega 2.
thank you very much for your answer and for sharing your experience – I really appreciate it. In the meantime I've read all of your Posts and I am close to order a Vega 2 (it is already in my Basket
). I only wait the next call with my Contact Person from Apple Support, very friendly and cooperatively but unfortunately no solution(s) so far…Great to hear that and I can imagine how happy you're with your new stable System. A stable System is essential and that´s why I am also thinking about to order a Vega 2 – in the end it is even cheaper without spending so much time on resetting, installing or trying other things… waiting for a fix is no more opinion for me, this problem goes on for too long!
As I can see you've changed the complete System to a MP with Vega 2 – right?
My return window is over and I hope that it will also work even if I´ll change only the W5700X against the Vega 2.
I share your philosophy.
Correct. As compared to the pervious system, the only variable to change is the GPU. Otherwise the same exact hardware configuration, same app installation profile, and same user workflows. The W5700X crashed and/or froze regularly, the Vega II does not.
Give Apple sales and / or technical support a call and push them for a replacement system. They have a certain amount of discretion and you paid a lot for your system. It's unacceptable that it should be anything less than steadfast stable.