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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,317
2,998
^^^^I read about the issues you folks are having and am really confused. I do not have the W5700X, I have an Aorus RX5700XT that uses the same drivers. The Adobe apps that I use are PS, Bridge and Acrobat. I have none of the issues you guys are having. The only shutdown issue I have had appears to be related to a particular site I used to visit. My NcMP is trouble and hassle free.

Lou
 

Hotshoe

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2017
81
48
Seattle, WA
I do not have the W5700X, I have an Aorus RX5700XT that uses the same drivers

As consumers of the product with no first-hand knowledge, we can only know for certain what we observe and draw conclusions based on what the empirical evidence suggests.

There's nothing to be confused about.

The Aorus RX5700XT is not the exact same hardware as the W5700X module, despite how similar it may be in architecture and even if using the same driver binary.

As indicated in an earlier post, I spoke to Apple technical support about the issues I was having with the my W5700X system, and indicated I believed it was GPU related based on the symptoms I was observing. The support engineer indicated that they're aware of the issue and are working on a fix.
 
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DFP1989

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2020
462
361
Melbourne, Australia
For what it’s worth to anyone here, Chrome is an issue on my system. If I have it running when working FCP X hard, I frequently have FCP X crash. I can reopen and continue on, but eventually it will crash again.

Closing Chrome stops the crashes every time.
 
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OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
For what it’s worth to anyone here, Chrome is an issue on my system. If I have it running when working FCP X hard, I frequently have FCP X crash. I can reopen and continue on, but eventually it will crash again.

Closing Chrome stops the crashes every time.
Never been a FCPX/Chrome crash on the 7,1 set up. Maybe the GPU or the Afterburner helps out? Only crash ever was due to a wonky Pixel Film Studios plugin. Just an FYI.

(Edit) But there are no other internal cards or 'things' added to the original setup. And no strange "legacy" carryover software; not sure about vocabulary definition for legacy. But just basic software. And basic external equipment. I am thinking of getting a 2nd AB Card in January 2021 to help expand the number of 4/6/8 k streams FCPX can handle at once.
 

DFP1989

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2020
462
361
Melbourne, Australia

I came across this amongst other posts and articles about the Chrome issue, and I’m certain it was what was upsetting my system. It wasn’t a full system crash or kernel panic, only FCP X.

As soon as I quit Chrome, no more issues. Don’t even need to reboot!

I would ditch Chrome in an instant if I didn’t need it for a Gmail plug-in I use. Might start running Chrome in a VM to isolate it from the rest of the system. Ridiculous, but a solution for me.
 
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Athraldur

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2020
14
10
Correct. As compared to the pervious system, the only variable to change is the GPU. Otherwise the same exact hardware configuration, same app installation profile, and same user workflows. The W5700X crashed and/or froze regularly, the Vega II does not.
Thank you very much again for your answer! Good to hear that, I've already got similar answers form other MP Users with Vega 2 and some also got a W5700X before the Vega 2. If I only ordered the V2 right from the beginning… ah! I've configurated my first setup with a higher Chip and the V2, but thought it could probably be too much for my workflow! Always the same, too much will never be enough and less will be always pain! Anyway: "shoulda coulda woulda" :)

Give Apple sales and / or technical support a call and push them for a replacement system. They have a certain amount of discretion and you paid a lot for your system. It's unacceptable that it should be anything less than steadfast stable.
You're absolutely right. I will talk with Apple Support tomorrow and hope to get a adequate solution (fingers crossed).
 
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Athraldur

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2020
14
10
^^^^I read about the issues you folks are having and am really confused. I do not have the W5700X, I have an Aorus RX5700XT that uses the same drivers. The Adobe apps that I use are PS, Bridge and Acrobat. I have none of the issues you guys are having. The only shutdown issue I have had appears to be related to a particular site I used to visit. My NcMP is trouble and hassle free.

Lou
It is great that you've not those problems with your System! But I am very sure, you can also get into this trouble with your card. There are already some Posts in different Forums out there with KP, Freezes and Glitches with the 5700XT.

Try to use Illustrator, InDesign, AE and other Adobe CC apps with PS and you'll get into serious trouble after wake up from sleep by launching another Adobe App, Chrome or FC. The problem can get away for some days by resetting PRAM, but it will come back after some days. I've tried everything now and nothing works for more than three days…

My MP won't panic after wake up if I do not open another Adobe App oder FC. Sometimes the System is stable by launching only one App and sometimes it crashes by opening only Acrobat! What I can say after sleep there is not the same performance as before and the hole "behavior" seems very unstable.

In the moment I can only work on my MP 7.1 from a fresh start and can't use sleep mode!

Hope you will stay with a stable System!
 
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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,317
2,998
^^^^Thanks for the good words 👍 Over the years, I have shied away from using sleep, and now never use it. When my machine is idle it just goes to screen saver. At night I shut down.

Lou
 

Hotshoe

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2017
81
48
Seattle, WA
Interesting / related thread here:


Last post from RjL sums it up well IMO.

>> "What I am going to state is not just applicable to the W5700X in MacOS, but also to all RDNA-based Radeon GPUs in both MacOS and Windows. The available drivers for both platforms for that series of GPUs still have teething issues."

I think he is spot on. The W5700X has relatively little bake time. But these issues will get sorted and, when they do, I'll sell my Vega II and get the W5700X for its 10-bit HEVC hardware codec (and other little perks like full speed ports out of my display). It sucks that Apple put this upon me, but I can't do any serious work on my system if it means crossing my fingers and hoping it doesn't crash.
 
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choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
I turned off Suitcase Fusion (since I still think this is a font-loading issue). After restart, I opened an InDesign file and it momentarily struggled trying to find the correct font to load (mouse cursor slowed down like it was getting ready to crash then recovered). Worked on the file in InDesign and exported as PDF. Opened file in Acrobat Pro and it crashed again upon launch! After restart, opened the same PDF in Acrobat Pro - no problem?

So I do not know if all these problems are from the W5700X, Adobe Apps or Font-Loading issues (or some combination), but since this is not happening in Photoshop - just in three Adobe apps I use most that need to load document fonts to launch a document - my guess this is somehow font-related?

I have run Font Doctor multiple times and all fonts pass with no problems.
 

Hotshoe

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2017
81
48
Seattle, WA
Opened file in Acrobat Pro and it crashed again upon launch! After restart, opened the same PDF in Acrobat Pro - no problem?

The way software bugs manifest themselves as symptoms is not always easily attributable to a root cause or repeatable.

So I do not know if all these problems are from the W5700X, .... my guess this is somehow font-related?

We can only speculate, unfortunately. But, given that your system is crashing as opposed to just the application itself, it's unlikely that the issue is font related (except that some complex interaction of loading and rendering the font is executing a code path or creating state at the system / driver level that leads to a crash).
 

choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
Adobe Acrobat Pro just crashed again right after launch, but this time the system did not logout and restart. Instead it was a hard freeze on-screen. Could not bring up Force Quit dialog. Had to do a full power off to get back up and running. Relaunched Acrobat Pro (same file) - opened fine?
 

Athraldur

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2020
14
10
@choreo
sorry to hear that!

I‘ve tried Safe Mode for several times without KP or freezes. After that I’ve tried a lot of Tests with fresh Installation of Catalina, seperate Partition with Catalina and also deactivated Fonts - in every case the Problem with KP and/or freezes occures sooner or later.

I really hope it‘s an easy issue on your System. But from my experience with a MP equiped with the W5700X I guess those errors are also caused by GPU/Driver.
 

OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
Adobe Acrobat Pro just crashed again right after launch, but this time the system did not logout and restart. Instead it was a hard freeze on-screen. Could not bring up Force Quit dialog. Had to do a full power off to get back up and running. Relaunched Acrobat Pro (same file) - opened fine?
Do you think if you call Apple they will let you upgrade to a Vega II with just difference cost?
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,100
930
In my imagination
I have the 8c/w5700x/32GB and I had one KP when I first started using the system. I am not in PS as much but run AI, PR, and AE constantly. I only turn the machine off over the weekend.

I also don't have a lot plugged into it, just a loud as heck OWC Thunderbay and an SD card reader.

I have found that Chrome eats up RAM so I don't have that installed and instead use Safari and Brave.

I have had display glitches but I am using a cheap LG 4k display ( I mean like, SOOPER cheap ) and am using HDMI. I've heard DP gives better performance.

I don't know if that helps any. This is my first heavy iron Mac Pro tower in a long time, last one I had was a 12C cMP that gave me no issues. Have been in PC world for the past 6-8 years or so.
 

Hotshoe

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2017
81
48
Seattle, WA
Do you think if you call Apple they will let you upgrade to a Vega II with just difference cost?

I tried that. The answer is no.

The only options were to return or exchange the system. Exchanging means going about 2-weeks without, so I opted to purchase a replacement system and then send back the original after the replacement arrived.

Despite what the website says, it takes only about 7 days from order placement to delivery (at least to WA state anyway) and Apple allows a 2-week window to ship back, so there is no gap w/o machine. You can also arrange for return to be picked-up from home w/ carrier, so the entire process is pretty painless except for needing to setup machine again (I prefer to always clean install as opposed to restoring from backup).

If OK going to and Apple store these days, then can get time w/o system down to about 1-week going the exchange route. The credit towards new replacement machine is processed immediately, so then just the time for it to be built and delivered.

IIRC, @choreo purchased from B&H. So, the only option would be to push on Apple support harder to get creative about a resolution. At the price Apple is charging for Mac Pro and for how we are using these machines, I wouldn't give-up until satisfied.
 

choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
Do you think if you call Apple they will let you upgrade to a Vega II with just difference cost?
If they want to "give" me a Vega II to fix their configuration, I would be willing to swap it, but I based my purchase on the fact that they offered the w5700x as a build-to-order upgrade from the base card. I have already wasted the better part of a month trying to make adjustments on my end and just chasing my tail. It is not just me having issues with this card. If this configuration is flawed, Apple needs to bite the bullet, not me. Of course, I am the victim being punished and losing productivity while Apple has already taken the money to the bank, but they are aware there is a problem (apparently) and still selling this configuration.

It would be like buying a new car that does not work and the dealer saying if you pay us to install a bigger engine you won't have those problems with the car not starting!
 

Hotshoe

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2017
81
48
Seattle, WA
If they want to "give" me a Vega II to fix their configuration
We can only wish! I say push for it and if they say no, ask where to send the bill for all your lost time.

they offered the w5700x
It's a relatively new GPU architecture (compared to Pro Vega) being integrated into a relatively new system (MacPro 7,1) with a relatively small user base (i.e., far fewer beta testers and less dogfood coverage). You're right in principle, but, unfortunately, this is sort of how it goes -- it's why many people avoid the being early adopters of anything new. The 5700X issues will get sorted out in time, and it's a matter if you can afford to wait or not.
 
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choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
it's why many people avoid the being early adopters of anything new. The 5700X issues will get sorted out in time, and it's a matter if you can afford to wait or not.
It would just be nice to know that they admit there is a problem and are looking for a fix! The Level 3 Apple Tech I was talking to a couple weeks ago said "I think that was all fixed in the last OS update"? Just wondering if they think the issue has been solved? I just wrote another email to that Apple Tech to see what he says (he appears to be VERY knowledgeable). I was also greeted by a login screen asking for my password when I woke the MacPro from sleep this morning - so it crashed again during the night.

Except for this freezing/shutdown issue, the 7,1 has solved a number of other nuisance problems I was having on the 5,1 for years now.
 
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AMP12345

macrumors member
Nov 21, 2016
80
95
Well, I don’t have a Mac Pro but a MacBook Pro 16” which also have a RDNA-based GPU and InDesign have been fairly flaky on that. Especially with crashes after closing InDesign when using an external monitor. My gut feeling is that the RDNA drivers and Adobe apps just doesn’t exactly love each other. 🥺

I'm on a 16" with 5500m and also have issues predominantly with InDessign so I wonder if it's a RDNA compatibility problem. Honestly I've just started using Affinity Designer and Affinity Publisher as much as possible unless a client really need the Adobe version of the file. I can't wait fr the day I never have to pay for CC again.
 
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choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
I'm on a 16" with 5500m and also have issues predominantly with InDessign so I wonder if it's a RDNA compatibility problem. Honestly I've just started using Affinity Designer and Affinity Publisher as much as possible unless a client really need the Adobe version of the file. I can't wait fr the day I never have to pay for CC again.
Adobe apps are defiantly where I am seeing most of my problems, but that makes sense as that is where I spend most of my time. That said, there are numerous non-Adobe apps that I use daily without any issues so far. However the Adobe issues do not explain the random restarts I get occasionally in the Finder, during sleep, etc. There is just something weird going on under the hood. I am still searching for someone with the w5700x that uses Adobe apps on a regular basis to show up here that says they are not having freezes/shutdowns.
 
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Athraldur

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2020
14
10
Hey Guys I´ve received a Tip from a colleague to reduce the refresh rates from 60 to 50 and… no issues so far since I've changed that setting. First two sleeps for days now without KP. What a feeling 😂 (I use a XDR on my 7.1)

Not perfect for sure but at least it seems to work for the last hours. I'll test this setup the next days because I am not trusting any changes from my last experience. The problem always come back after two or three days, maybe that works exceptionally :)

My colleague has got the same errors (flickering, KP and probs with sleep) on his 2013 MP with the D700 GPUs and changing the refresh rates has solved the problem on his System by using a 4K Display. He also mentioned that the error never occurs by an older OS and starts with Catalina… very confusing this all. My old MP 2013 has got D500s and runs with a 5K Display without any issues for some years now. Extrem stable my loved old trash can.

In the meantime I´ve spoken with Apple Support, very friendly again and I can send my MP to an Service Partner to let them check everything. So if the error occurs again I'll do that, maybe they have an Idea. Otherwise I'll order the Vega 2…

All hail the "Driver God"… please hear me and make us happy with some "Fixes"… 🤪
 
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