Advice for 5.1 upgrade

[F1Mac]

For a while I was convinced the X5690 3.46 was the best option for my 5.1. However I saw in a recent thread someone mentioning the X5680 (3.33) instead which apparently would give me just about the same kind of boost for a fraction of the price. Both are 6 core if I'm not mistaken so what would you recommend? I need a pair.

And of course there's the GPU..... I'm tempted by a 7950 mac edition but it's not cheap even in 2018, and I want to make sure I'll be ok for Mojave. I know we already have a thread about the 2010/12 cMP and mojave compatibility - maybe I missed a few posts but I'm not clear on the 7950 with Mojave... In any case I think I'll start with the cpu upgrade.

tx!


[edit]
- I settled for an RX 560 to replace the aging and non-Metal HD5770 and it's working perfectly. #10

- after a bad experience with a non-working pair of CPUs, I decided to get a new pair and installed my new CPUs successfully. See from post #79 for the details.

 

[bsbeamer]

You are 100% right - there is not a HUGE difference between dual X5680 and dual X5690, but the dual X5690 is the maximum you can get in a 5,1. If you can find dual X5680 and already have a dual processor tray (looks like you're on dual E5645) it should be an easy and cheap upgrade.

Usually can find X5680's for under $50 USD each. X5690's are rarely under $80 USD each these days. Either would be an upgrade from your current CPUs.

Look at getting an RX580 for GPU. It's the recommended for Mojave and works out of the box without drivers/hacks. Can find RX580 8GB variants brand new for under $220 if you shop around.

 

[F1Mac]

You are 100% right - there is not a HUGE difference between dual X5680 and dual X5690, but the dual X5690 is the maximum you can get in a 5,1. If you can find dual X5680 and already have a dual processor tray (looks like you're on dual E5645) it should be an easy and cheap upgrade.

Usually can find X5680's for under $50 USD each. X5690's are rarely under $80 USD each these days. Either would be an upgrade from your current CPUs.

Look at getting an RX580 for GPU. It's the recommended for Mojave and works out of the box without drivers/hacks. Can find RX580 8GB variants brand new for under $220 if you shop around.

Awesome thanks! .....I'll go for the 5680s then. Yes I'm on a dual E5645, the stock configuration.

Would be nice to find the RX580 for +/- $200 (guessing $300 canadian then)

 

[fhturner]

My take on CPU values and when you might want an X5690:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/easy-4-1-dual-cpu-upgrade.2134474/#post-26397875

 

[F1Mac]

My take on CPU values and when you might want an X5690:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/easy-4-1-dual-cpu-upgrade.2134474/#post-26397875

Duly noted thanks!

I'm doing mostly audio editing/mixing/orchestral mockups/etc - and occasionally some video encoding (I get H264 files which I reencode in Pro Res, easier to work with pro res or Avid codecs in Pro Tools.)


As for the 580, any particular reason to go for the 4GB or 8GB? I'm not doing games or heavy graphic/rendering work - I do use Photoshop quite often.

 

[bsbeamer]

As for the 580, any particular reason to go for the 4GB or 8GB? I'm not doing games or heavy graphic/rendering work - I do use Photoshop quite often.

Photoshop alone would be a reason for me...

You can find RX580 8GB variants under $220 USD if you shop around. RX580 4GB variants are not much cheaper (some are more expensive). Instead would suggest the RX560, which is also a supported model for Mojave. Have seen some of those RX560 4GB cards close to $120 recently.

https://support.apple.com/macos/mojave
Mac Pro models introduced in late 2013, plus mid 2010 or mid 2012 models with recommended Metal-capable graphics processor, including MSI Gaming Radeon RX 560 and Sapphire Radeon PULSE RX 580

If you're using all 4 PCIe slots in your Mac Pro, would suggest NOT getting the Sapphire PULSE RX 580. I picked up the 11265-05-20G model on sale and it's an extremely tight fit and is taller than the reported 40mm double slot with screws protruding past the backplate and fans slightly above the case/housing. There's a whole post on this recently. Considering returning the card.

 

[handheldgames]

You are 100% right - there is not a HUGE difference between dual X5680 and dual X5690, but the dual X5690 is the maximum you can get in a 5,1. If you can find dual X5680 and already have a dual processor tray (looks like you're on dual E5645) it should be an easy and cheap upgrade.

Usually can find X5680's for under $50 USD each. X5690's are rarely under $80 USD each these days. Either would be an upgrade from your current CPUs.

Look at getting an RX580 for GPU. It's the recommended for Mojave and works out of the box without drivers/hacks. Can find RX580 8GB variants brand new for under $220 if you shop around.

$80 is a good price. The lowest I’ve seen for a x5690 on eBay for the past several months with all memory channels working is $198 when purchased as a pair.

 

[TECK]

My take on CPU values and when you might want an X5690:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/easy-4-1-dual-cpu-upgrade.2134474/#post-26397875

That is exactly why I got the 5690s for my MP.

 

[bsbeamer]

$80 is a good price. The lowest I’ve seen for a x5690 on eBay for the past several months with all memory channels working is $198 when purchased as a pair.

As I said, they're RARELY under $80 each these days. Most people pay $100+ each. For many people that $40 or so difference isn't a big deal when it's a pro machine.

 

[F1Mac]

Well... I went the cheap route and got an RX 560 (4GB). I ordered it yesterday evening and it arrived this morning - pretty cool! I like the fact that it doesn't need additional power - I think the 560 is going to be just fine for my needs.

...As it's the first time since I've been using Macs that I don't see a boot screen, and I'm still on Sierra (I guess that's why the system repports the card as "R9 XXX" instead of RX 560? I think I read that only High Sierra identifies these cards properly), I have a couple more questions:

1/ should I be worried *during* an OS installation or firmware upgrade? Apple says these cards are compatible with Mojave which is great, but that means we won't see anything during the installation, right? Also should I install High Sierra, I won't be seeing anything until the login screen either.

2/ I may install a 3rd monitor soon what if: I put the old 5770 in a different slot. Obviously it wouldn't be an issue with High Sierra and that would give me my boot screen back, but what about Mojave? Would it ignore the old card completely? In which case I should plug my 3rd monitor in the 560 I guess...


Well, I thought I would get the CPUs first, but apparently not! They're gonna be the next step!

 

[handheldgames]

Well... I went the cheap route and got an RX 560 (4GB). I ordered it yesterday evening and it arrived this morning - pretty cool! I like the fact that it doesn't need additional power - I think the 560 is going to be just fine for my needs.

...As it's the first time since I've been using Macs that I don't see a boot screen, and I'm still on Sierra (I guess that's why the system repports the card as "R9 XXX" instead of RX 560? I think I read that only High Sierra identifies these cards properly), I have a couple more questions:

1/ should I be worried *during* an OS installation or firmware upgrade? Apple says these cards are compatible with Mojave which is great, but that means we won't see anything during the installation, right? Also should I install High Sierra, I won't be seeing anything until the login screen either.

2/ I may install a 3rd monitor soon what if: I put the old 5770 in a different slot. Obviously it wouldn't be an issue with High Sierra and that would give me my boot screen back, but what about Mojave? Would it ignore the old card completely? In which case I should plug my 3rd monitor in the 560 I guess...


Well, I thought I would get the CPUs first, but apparently not! They're gonna be the next step!

Have you considered a good/cheap 43” HDMI 2.0 monitor? Costco has the TCL 4K 43” for well under $300. Once I went with a 4K large format display, the need for second display became redundant

 

[bookemdano]

Well... I went the cheap route and got an RX 560 (4GB). I ordered it yesterday evening and it arrived this morning - pretty cool! I like the fact that it doesn't need additional power - I think the 560 is going to be just fine for my needs.

...As it's the first time since I've been using Macs that I don't see a boot screen, and I'm still on Sierra (I guess that's why the system repports the card as "R9 XXX" instead of RX 560? I think I read that only High Sierra identifies these cards properly), I have a couple more questions:

1/ should I be worried *during* an OS installation or firmware upgrade? Apple says these cards are compatible with Mojave which is great, but that means we won't see anything during the installation, right? Also should I install High Sierra, I won't be seeing anything until the login screen either.

2/ I may install a 3rd monitor soon what if: I put the old 5770 in a different slot. Obviously it wouldn't be an issue with High Sierra and that would give me my boot screen back, but what about Mojave? Would it ignore the old card completely? In which case I should plug my 3rd monitor in the 560 I guess...


Well, I thought I would get the CPUs first, but apparently not! They're gonna be the next step!

No need to worry. OS installations will work just fine and will display an image on your monitor for almost the whole process. The screen will only be black for a brief period when the system reboots.

And with Mojave, firmware updates no longer require an EFI driver so you don't need to worry about that either. The only reason for any concern is if you use the following features:

1. FileVault whole-drive encryption
2. Boot Camp
3. Using the Boot Picker/Startup Manager (holding Option down at bootup) to boot from different OS drives/partitions
4. Single User/Verbose booting

If you don't need any of those then you should be 100% fine with a non-EFI GPU.

 

[tsialex]

Well... I went the cheap route and got an RX 560 (4GB). I ordered it yesterday evening and it arrived this morning - pretty cool! I like the fact that it doesn't need additional power - I think the 560 is going to be just fine for my needs.

...As it's the first time since I've been using Macs that I don't see a boot screen, and I'm still on Sierra (I guess that's why the system repports the card as "R9 XXX" instead of RX 560? I think I read that only High Sierra identifies these cards properly), I have a couple more questions:

1/ should I be worried *during* an OS installation or firmware upgrade? Apple says these cards are compatible with Mojave which is great, but that means we won't see anything during the installation, right? Also should I install High Sierra, I won't be seeing anything until the login screen either.

2/ I may install a 3rd monitor soon what if: I put the old 5770 in a different slot. Obviously it wouldn't be an issue with High Sierra and that would give me my boot screen back, but what about Mojave? Would it ignore the old card completely? In which case I should plug my 3rd monitor in the 560 I guess...


Well, I thought I would get the CPUs first, but apparently not! They're gonna be the next step!

Apple documentation says that you need to install 10.13.6 before upgrading to Mojave. So, you will need to upgrade to High Sierra with your old card. High Sierra EFI flasher needs a Mac EFI GPU to upgrade your BootROM.

Notes and Known Issues

General

Known Issues

• Mac Pro (mid 2010 and mid 2012 models) must first be updated to macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 before updating to macOS Mojave. (41798700)

Mojave installer rejects any non Metal cards, so you will need to remove the HD5770 for the install part.

 

[MisterAndrew]

It sure is funny the lack of info Apple has on their "Get Ready for macOS Mojave" page. They're going to be getting a lot of calls and emails from Mac Pro owners about how to upgrade. From just reading that we're lead to believe you could install an RX 560 or 580 in a machine running an OS as old as El Capitan before updating, but of course that wouldn't work.

 

[tsialex]

It sure is funny the lack of info Apple has on their "Get Ready for macOS Mojave" page. They're going to be getting a lot of calls and emails from Mac Pro owners about how to upgrade. From just reading that we're lead to believe you could install an RX 560 or 580 in a machine running an OS as old as El Capitan before updating, but of course that wouldn't work.

Yep.

Reading between the lines, IMHO, Apple wants your Mac Pro with MP51.0089.B00 before doing any Mojave upgrade.

Let's not forget that RX560/580 only works with the last versions of Sierra…

 

[F1Mac]

Apple documentation says that you need to install 10.13.6 before upgrading to Mojave. So, you will need to upgrade to High Sierra with your old card. High Sierra EFI flasher needs a Mac EFI GPU to upgrade your BootROM.

Mojave installer rejects any non Metal cards, so you will need to remove the HD5770 for the install part.

Thanks tsialex!

So I guess I'm ok then:

That means I could go directly with the upgrade, without having to reinstall my old card right?

...I've already installed HS in the past which is why I have the newer Boot ROM, but reverted back each time because I wasn't fond of the experience. By the way you may be aware of the "slow boot time" issue with HS on APFS, how is it with Mojave so far? Genuinely curious, I've read somewhere on another forum that with HS and APFS, trimming occurs every time during the boot sequence, slowing down the whole process compared to previous OSes...
[doublepost=1535797730][/doublepost]

Have you considered a good/cheap 43” HDMI 2.0 monitor? Costco has the TCL 4K 43” for well under $300. Once I went with a 4K large format display, the need for second display became redundant

To be honest, no, I hadn't considered it! But now that do, that looks interesting. I'm used to work with 2 monitors because in Pro Tools, I have my edit window and Mix window on each screen - so I currently fancy the idea of a 3rd one which would go above the others, I'd be using it for video playback, so that the darn video window wouldn't get in my way all the time

 

[tsialex]

That means I could go directly with the upgrade, without having to reinstall my old card right?

Yes if you have a Mojave supported Metal GPU. Some Metal supported GPUs like RX480 seems not yet supported for the firmware flash.

By the way you may be aware of the "slow boot time" issue with HS on APFS, how is it with Mojave so far? Genuinely curious, I've read somehwere on another forum that with HS and APFS, trimming occurs every time during the boot sequence, slowing down the whole process compared to previous OSes...

When you have more than one boot drive and your last boot was on another drive/with another macOS version, Mojave have a different boot procedure - sometimes it needs to restart the boot process. It's a little weird initially, but I'm now familiarised with it. With just only Mojave drive, I didn't notice longer boot times than the usual.

With my SM951-AHCI, I'm certain that High Sierra don't do any TRIM at boot time, I have to do it from time to time manually. Can't say with Apple drives on supported Macs.

 

[F1Mac]

When you have more than one boot drive and your last boot was on another drive/with another macOS version, Mojave have a different boot procedure - sometimes it needs to restart the boot process. It's a little weird initially, but I'm now familiarised with it. With just only Mojave drive, I didn't notice longer boot times than the usual.

With my SM951-AHCI, I'm certain that High Sierra don't do any TRIM at boot time, I have to do it from time to time manually. Can't say with Apple drives on supported Macs.

Yeah I've seen so many different reports, some with the issue some without... But I did notice a serious slowdown during the boot sequence on mine (Kingston SSD). Oh well, if that's what it takes to get to Mojave I guess I have no choice. Besides, APFS is here to stay so let's look forward instead and embrace the future

 

[tsialex]

Yeah I've seen so many different reports, some with the issue some without... But I did notice a serious slowdown during the boot sequence on mine (Kingston SSD). Oh well, if that's what it takes to get to Mojave I guess I have no choice. Besides, APFS is here to stay so let's look forward instead and embrace the future

With some of my Macs, I only restart to install software upgrades. With my work Mac Pro, I constantly have to shutdown/restart/change drives/test things/etc, so with this one I care a little more with boot times - nothing to report beyond Mojave "double boot" feature.

 

[F1Mac]

So........ I've settled for a pair of 5680s! I was actually tempted by the 5690 but I figured a 100Mhz difference is negligible to say the least, and they were always half the price so... 100 MHz doesn't seem to be worth $100 these days... (besides in canuckistani pesos I still paid cloe to $200) That should still be a nice little boost from my stock dual 2.4! They should arrive relatively soon - found an express shipping from China for $25 so we'll see.... I'll keep you guys posted during this journey I've watched a couple of videos, the upgrade seems fairly easy. I already did a similar procedure on my 1,1 when I turned it into a 2,1 a couple years ago so I kinda know what to expect this time around. ....Meanwhile I'm going to upgrade to High Sierra...again!

 

[bookemdano]

With some of my Macs, I only restart to install software upgrades. With my work Mac Pro, I constantly have to shutdown/restart/change drives/test things/etc, so with this one I care a little more with boot times - nothing to report beyond Mojave "double boot" feature.

Can you expound on the "double boot" thing? I experienced that with a couple of the earlier betas when switching between HS and Mojave (it would boot to a black screen, spontaneously reboot, and then go to Mojave). But I haven't seen it happen since PB7 or so.

 

[tsialex]

Can you expound on the "double boot" thing? I experienced that with a couple of the earlier betas when switching between HS and Mojave (it would boot to a black screen, spontaneously reboot, and then go to Mojave). But I haven't seen it happen since PB7 or so.

It's what you're describing, but still happens with me. I'm gonna fully erase my Mojave SSD and install the next developer preview from scratch to check if this weird behaviour is finally put to rest.

 

[handheldgames]

So........ I've settled for a pair of 5680s! I was actually tempted by the 5690 but I figured a 100Mhz difference is negligible to say the least, and they were always half the price so... 100 MHz doesn't seem to be worth $100 these days... (besides in canuckistani pesos I still paid cloe to $200) That should still be a nice little boost from my stock dual 2.4! They should arrive relatively soon - found an express shipping from China for $25 so we'll see.... I'll keep you guys posted during this journey I've watched a couple of videos, the upgrade seems fairly easy. I already did a similar procedure on my 1,1 when I turned it into a 2,1 a couple years ago so I kinda know what to expect this time around. ....Meanwhile I'm going to upgrade to High Sierra...again!

The best performance from dual x5680's appears to come down to the RAM paired along side it. While Geekbench numbers don't reflect true app performance, multicore performance on specific tasks do reflect the performance hit with a less than optimal pairing / configuration of RAM. Searching through the Geekbench 4 results for the x5680, one can see a lot of the systems using the chip, are configured in a less than optimal setup.

 

[F1Mac]

ok here's a weird one: right after installing High Sierra (10.13.6)

monitor on the left is on DVI-to-HDMI
monitor on the right is on HDMI

Left one has gone pink/purple! (I noticed that as soon as the OS installation started as the Apple logo/progress was on the left)

Everything appears to be normal with the card.

I've already swapped my cables, both monitors are fine - if I put the left one on the RX 560's HDMI output the image is perfectly fine, then the right one turns pink with DVI.

This did NOT occur with Sierra obviously.



Since the last few minutes I've read several reports of the same behavior, both on High Sierra and Mojave. Some just say to use the DP port instead. Any solution before I go buy a DP->HDMI cable tomorrow?

 

[crjackson2134]

It's what you're describing, but still happens with me. I'm gonna fully erase my Mojave SSD and install the next developer preview from scratch to check if this weird behaviour is finally put to rest.

Mine still does it on latest DP/PB.