After one week with the 6S+... Decided to go back to Android

[epicrayban]

Android can have all this stuff first. As in Touch ID, when Apple implements whatever, it will be well thought out. In the meantime I want my iPhone to be like the tortoise.

There is no reason you can't use your iPhone however you want, including ignoring new features you don't find any need for. I ask you again: Do you use every single new feature that Apple introduces every single time, every year? Because if not, surely you must understand the point people are making at forums and elsewhere. It's no longer just a small group of users nitpicking what's missing in the iPhones.

This whole idea that Apple should compete slow because it means the features they launch, when they finally launch it, will be gotten right is folly and historically hasn't always been true.

There is no reason for Apple to not compete with just as much if not more features and innovations than what the competition is doing. Apple hasn't really felt the urgency yet due to their great brand and record breaking sales, but that leads to a less capable smartphone. Whereas the competition can't afford to get away with what Apple can, and so they have to push features and innovations faster. However, I ask this question to you again as well: as Apple fans, wouldn't we rather Apple continue being the leader in the actual technology (just as they once were)? How do you think they got to be such a reputable brand in the first place?

It'd be nice if you ever answered some of these questions, because from the posts you make around here, your position as an Apple fan is confusing. It doesn't seem to me like your way of thinking is best for Apple in the long run. I'm not claiming our ideas are the best necessarily either. After all, who really knows. But I'd love for you to clarify. You really prefer them to be slow when the competition is being fast? You seriously think this is a viable long term solution for a tech company? Especially with the way technology is moving nowadays? There was a time when that might have been a fine strategy. When the competition was still playing catch up, but the playing field has changed, and your inability (or refusal?) to see this is unfortunate.

Again, it'd be nice if you answered some of these questions to fully understand your position. For example, most recently, when discussing how iOS could open up a bit and add more customizations and freedoms, you said iOS becoming more like Android is not a good thing. Yet, where was this concern when Apple added the notification shade, or control center for quick toggles, or widgets, or any of the other things they've already adopted from Android? Why no concern then of the dangers of iOS becoming like Android? These are the sorts of inconsistencies in your arguments that make your position confusing. And that's just one recent example.

There is no reason Apple shouldn't try to create iPhones with hardware and software features that can cater to more people's personal use preferences. Especially since doing so would have little to no affect on how you use your iPhone today. Any preferences you have ought to tell you there shouldn't only be one way to use a smartphone that millions of different people own. Remember? You claim to care very much about personal preferences.

But only yours, it seems...

 

[I7guy]

Enjoy being the tortoise my friend, slow but sure eh?

I would rather finish the race, finishing is much better than not.

 

[jamezr]

Is that why after Touch ID, phone manufacturers tripped over themselves to get fingerprint reading better or right? Additionally After the 5s, how many 32 bit flagship phones are now on the market?

Yep and that is why Apple couldn't wait to get a iPhone on the market with larger screens. Even though publicly saying 3.5 inch screens were the best size.
Apple doesn't lead the smartphone market in features and innovation. They follow what others have done first.

 

[epicrayban]

Of course I ignored Touch ID, it's not one of Apple's cons. I'm not involved in a pissing match. Touch ID was a great implementation by Apple.

Forunately, Android manufacturers quickly implement those same ideas as equal or better than Apple. I wish I could say the same for Apple. I'll be waiting forever for Apple to implement Google's and manufacturer's ideas.

On point.
[doublepost=1462724851][/doublepost]

I would rather finish the race, finishing is much better than not.

Going to answer any of the questions I asked in my post to you? Would love to understand your position better, especially as a fellow Apple fan.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-back-to-android.1971125/page-4#post-22878941
[doublepost=1462725630][/doublepost]

I can really respect someone who has actually tried both phones. A lot of pro-android people I know have never used an iPhone and yet hate it. A lot of iPhone people I know hate Android and have never used it. How do you know you don't like it unless you've tried it?

Really appreciate the time you spent - found your post very interesting. I started out with Droid 1, HTC Thunderbolt, iPhone 4s, iPhone 5, Moto X, Note 3, and now have had the iPhone 6+ for over a year. I find a lot of your views very similar to mine minus the fact that I don't torrent, etc...

For me, build quality, no need to spend forever fiddling with the phone to get standby battery life to be acceptable (used to have to root to do this back in the day), and like you, I think the iPhone screen wins against SAMOLED. So I'm probably sticking with iPhone for awhile - but SD card, quick charging, and edge to edge screen is tempting.

Definitely think people should go with what they want. Thanks for your post, I found it very interesting.

On point.

It's why I argue that no amount of reading about the competition can really do justice. The people who use the competition are the people best equipped -- literally! -- to tell us that any other smartphone might be lagging behind in features and innovations. The two biggest competitors right now are Android and iOS. To say one is better than the other is merely an observation made after having used both platforms and seeing what they each offer better over the other hardware and software-wise. It doesn't have to be contentious to say one is best or better than the other. And more importantly, it's not contentious to point to the one lagging behind and saying, it ought to compete harder at the particular thing it's lacking in.

The people who argue against such observations -- especially those who refuse to try the competition -- are arguing from a point of ignorance. And it's unfortunate.

 

[sofila]

Competition is the best thing for everyone.
My personal preference goes to Android because I'm feeling less limited in what I am allowed to do with my phone.
There are too many limitations set by iOS for my habits. Maybe I'm a too old-school type guy

 

[epicrayban]

Competition is the best thing for everyone.
My personal preference goes to Android because I'm feeling less limited in what I am allowed to do with my phone.
There are too many limitations set by iOS for my habits. Maybe I'm a too old-school type guy

Same here.

And I agree, competition is best for all. Samsung doing so well could mean a better iPhone this fall.

 

[C DM]

Yep and that is why Apple couldn't wait to get a iPhone on the market with larger screens. Even though publicly saying 3.5 inch screens were the best size.
Apple doesn't lead the smartphone market in features and innovation. They follow what others have done first.

So native simple features like Siri, TouchID, 3D Touch, those were available as the same kind of simple built-in features from other manufacturers when Apple dressed them? Or some hardware advancements like going 64-bit, for example?

 

[I7guy]

There is no reason you can't use your iPhone however you want, including ignoring new features you don't find any need for. I ask you again: Do you use every single new feature that Apple introduces every single time, every year? Because if not, surely you must understand the point people are making at forums and elsewhere. It's no longer just a small group of users nitpicking what's missing in the iPhones.

No, I don't use every new hardware and software feature. For example I don't use the health app or homekit. But I understand why some people would find them useful.

This whole idea that Apple should compete slow because it means the features they launch, when they finally launch it, will be gotten right is folly and historically hasn't always been true.

There is no reason for Apple to not compete with just as much if not more features and innovations than what the competition is doing. Apple hasn't really felt the urgency yet due to their great brand and record breaking sales, but that leads to a less capable smartphone. Whereas the competition can't afford to get away with what Apple can, and so they have to push features and innovations faster. However, I ask this question to you again as well: as Apple fans, wouldn't we rather Apple continue being the leader in the actual technology (just as they once were)? How do you think they got to be such a reputable brand in the first place?

Nobody is saying apple shouldn't compete. But apple does not just "throw" hardware/software into the phone. That is not how they operate. I can't defend or criticize that approach; I like their products and they work well for me.

It'd be nice if you ever answered some of these questions, because from the posts you make around here, your position as an Apple fan is confusing. It doesn't seem to me like your way of thinking is best for Apple in the long run. I'm not claiming our ideas are the best necessarily either. After all, who really knows. But I'd love for you to clarify. You really prefer them to be slow when the competition is being fast? You seriously think this is a viable long term solution for a tech company? Especially with the way technology is moving nowadays? There was a time when that might have been a fine strategy. When the competition was still playing catch up, but the playing field has changed, and your inability (or refusal?) to see this is unfortunate.

Again, it'd be nice if you answered some of these questions to fully understand your position. For example, most recently, when discussing how iOS could open up a bit and add more customizations and freedoms, you said iOS becoming more like Android is not a good thing. Yet, where was this concern when Apple added the notification shade, or control center for quick toggles, or widgets, or any of the other things they've already adopted from Android? Why no concern then of the dangers of iOS becoming like Android? These are the sorts of inconsistencies in your arguments that make your position confusing. And that's just one recent example.

There is no reason Apple shouldn't try to create iPhones with hardware and software features that can cater to more people's personal use preferences. Especially since doing so would have little to no affect on how you use your iPhone today. Any preferences you have ought to tell you there shouldn't only be one way to use a smartphone that millions of different people own. Remember? You claim to care very much about personal preferences.

But only yours, it seems...

I tried to answer the above as honestly as I could. That is not to say there is always room for improvement. For example, a big deal has been made about notification lights and ir blaster. Sure would be nice to have them, for me that is not a make or break decision. A big deal has been about the current screen technology. What apple currently uses is fine for the way I use the phone. That's not to say I wouldn't welcome other technology with across the board benefits (better contrast, battery life, doesn't give me headaches etc.)

Apple seems to do things in their own way, I mentioned touch id and 64 bit because they seemed to have changed course of action on cell phones; as two ways apple applied some methodology to existing technology that caused a shift in the phone market. These manufacturers borrow from each other and it's all a matter of what style you prefer and/or like.

 

[sofila]

Same here.

And I agree, competition is best for all. Samsung doing so well could mean a better iPhone this fall.

A better iPhone will obviously lead to further efforts from other manufacturers. As some of you better explained before, Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points. Basic daily needs are well satisfied by present low-budget smartphones. Apple will have to work hard to justify the new iPhone price tag.
Apart the missing fingerprint sensor, you can do almost whatever you want with a $219 2015 MOTO G.

 

[I7guy]

Yep and that is why Apple couldn't wait to get a iPhone on the market with larger screens. Even though publicly saying 3.5 inch screens were the best size.
Apple doesn't lead the smartphone market in features and innovation. They follow what others have done first.

I guess that's true to a certain extent. As I said in the post above. They don't seem to invent, they seem to innovate. Although a large screen or small screen is neither innovation or invention it's an execution choice. They didn't invent 64 bit either tbh.
[doublepost=1462730715][/doublepost]

A better iPhone will obviously lead to further efforts from other manufacturers. As some of you better explained before, Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points. Basic daily needs are well satisfied by present low-budget smartphones. Apple will have to work hard to justify the new iPhone price tag.
Apart the missing fingerprint sensor, you can do almost whatever you want with a $219 2015 MOTO G.

There's an inherent issue with comparing features on a checklist; to some people execution matters. A Prius and Ferrari perform the same mission, but there is a two year waiting list for a Ferrari that costs 10 times as much as a Prius.

You can compare the moto with an iphone:
- makes call; check
- connects to the internet; check
- has notifications; check
And so on and so forth.

If your budget is $219; what are you going to do? You buy what you can afford. Some people do buy on price; but there are plenty that buy on form and function.

 

[sofila]

I guess that's true to a certain extent. As I said in the post above. They don't seem to invent, they seem to innovate. Although a large screen or small screen is neither innovation or invention it's an execution choice. They didn't invent 64 bit either tbh.
[doublepost=1462730715][/doublepost]
There's an inherent issue with comparing features on a checklist; to some people execution matters. A Prius and Ferrari perform the same mission, but there is a two year waiting list for a Ferrari that costs 10 times as much as a Prius.

You can compare the moto with an iphone:
- makes call; check
- connects to the internet; check
- has notifications; check
And so on and so forth.

If your budget is $219; what are you going to do? You buy what you can afford. Some people do buy on price; but there are plenty that buy on form and function.

It's not a matter of budget in all cases. But iPhones costs 3 times a Moto G.
You can compare the iphone with a moto:
- makes call; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- connects to the internet; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- has notifications; check (3 times better?, uncheck)

And so on and so forth.
Just to say that Moto G with Marshmallow doesn't behave 3 times worse than the other. So we go back to form and appeal. Not much on function.

 

[epicrayban]

A better iPhone will obviously lead to further efforts from other manufacturers. As some of you better explained before, Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points. Basic daily needs are well satisfied by present low-budget smartphones. Apple will have to work hard to justify the new iPhone price tag.
Apart the missing fingerprint sensor, you can do almost whatever you want with a $219 2015 MOTO G.

Yes.

It's not a matter of budget in all cases. But iPhones costs 3 times a Moto G.
You can compare the iphone with a moto:
- makes call; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- connects to the internet; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- has notifications; check (3 times better?, uncheck)

And so on and so forth.
Just to say that Moto G with Marshmallow doesn't behave 3 times worse than the other. So we go back to form and appeal. Not much on function.

And yes.

Well said.

 

[nj-morris]

A better iPhone will obviously lead to further efforts from other manufacturers. As some of you better explained before, Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points. Basic daily needs are well satisfied by present low-budget smartphones. Apple will have to work hard to justify the new iPhone price tag.
Apart the missing fingerprint sensor, you can do almost whatever you want with a $219 2015 MOTO G.

Just wait until the 2016 Moto G with a 5.5-inch screen and fingerprint scanner.

 

[I7guy]

It's not a matter of budget in all cases. But iPhones costs 3 times a Moto G.
You can compare the iphone with a moto:
- makes call; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- connects to the internet; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- has notifications; check (3 times better?, uncheck)

And so on and so forth.
Just to say that Moto G with Marshmallow doesn't behave 3 times worse than the other. So we go back to form and appeal. Not much on function.

You can also compare:
- 3 times the support? Probably
- 3 times the ecosystem?
- 3 times the longevity?

It depends on your value system.

 

[MRU]

It's not a matter of budget in all cases. But iPhones costs 3 times a Moto G.
You can compare the iphone with a moto:
- makes call; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- connects to the internet; check (3 times better?, uncheck)
- has notifications; check (3 times better?, uncheck)

And so on and so forth.
Just to say that Moto G with Marshmallow doesn't behave 3 times worse than the other. So we go back to form and appeal. Not much on function.

I don't see how this argument is aimed solely at the iPhone ?

You could use that argument to buy a Moto G or any other budget android over Anything Else (iOS or Android flagship).

The 2016 Moto G adds fingerprint, it does email, messaging, calls, 13mp camera etc ... Based just on function why would anyone pick an S7 / S7e at 3x the cost ? Or LG or HTC at 3x the cost ....?

 

[sofila]

You can also compare:
- 3 times the support? Probably
- 3 times the ecosystem?
- 3 times the longevity?

It depends on your value system.

I can not be 100 % sure about longevity. Support... the 2 years European warranty is more than enough.
But...as a long time Apple user I see Apple's "ecosystem" more as a trap than a benefit. I don't believe a single word about Apple's efforts on defending privacy and Google services works very well for our needs, given their multi-platform approach. Macs at home, Windows PC's at work, Android phones, Apple's iPods, all tools working.
With only Apple gear you're trapped. A golden one, but still a trap.
[doublepost=1462739040][/doublepost]

I don't see how this argument is aimed solely at the iPhone ?

You could use that argument to buy a Moto G or any other budget android over Anything Else (iOS or Android flagship).

The 2015 Moto G adds fingerprint, it does email, messaging, calls, 13mp camera etc ... Based just on function why would anyone pick an S7 / S7e at 3x the cost ? Or LG or HTC at 3x the cost ....?

Moto G is an example. From my original post: "Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points." meaning that you can choose from basic to full-featured gear without missing features, just depending on your budget and taste. With Apple iPhones (pardon Phil Schiller, iPhones sounds much better...) you don't have this kind of choice. Hence the 80% of worldwide marketshare. It seems that the quality of life of many people around doesn't rely on a logo on the back.

 

[MRU]

I
Moto G is an example. From my original post: "Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points." meaning that you can choose from basic to full-featured gear without missing features, just depending on your budget and taste. With Apple iPhones (pardon Phil Schiller, iPhones sounds much better...) you don't have this kind of choice. Hence the 80% of worldwide marketshare. It seems that the quality of life of many people around doesn't rely on a logo on the back.

Lamborghini make cars that do essentially everything Ford / Fiat / Vauxhall etc. do.
However it doesn't attempt to compete with less expensive cars - it has its own audience.

Likewise, why does Apple have to appeal to those that want to buy a $200 phone outright. Just because other manufacturers are making devices in that price range, does not mean Apple's decision to not compete with them in the bottom end of the smartphone market is wrong.

Apple have never competed against the bottom end, just as you won't ever pick up a MacBook for €350, when Toshiba, Samsung, Lenovo will sell you a budget PC laptop at that price.

 

[JaySoul]

Very interesting and fair read.

Both iOS and Android are great. I was with iOS for 5 years, and have been on Android for the past 2.5 years now.

Both have strengths and weaknesses, it's just about finding which one is better for you.

 

[sofila]

Lamborghini make cars that do essentially everything Ford / Fiat / Vauxhall etc. do.
However it doesn't attempt to compete with less expensive cars - it has its own audience.

Likewise, why does Apple have to appeal to those that want to buy a $200 phone outright. Just because other manufacturers are making devices in that price range, does not mean Apple's decision to not compete with them in the bottom end of the smartphone market is wrong.

Apple have never competed against the bottom end, just as you won't ever pick up a MacBook for €350, when Toshiba, Samsung, Lenovo will sell you a budget PC laptop at that price.

I totally agree on your points. I'm not discussing about Apple's strategies. There are millions better skilled than me on this (especially here on MacRumors). My point is (sometimes I really wish my English to be better and no so "scholar") that until 2/3 years ago iPhone's offer was really a lot better than competitors, and so price tag was out of discussion. You couldn't buy a decent phone with 200$. Now differences narrowed and with two hundred dollars you can get most of the services available. Internet, social, schedules, mail, weather, reminders etc.
And if the doctor suggested to you that you should spend more than 600$ on your phone to feel better, well, now you have plenty of choices.
My first belief is that competition really enhanced the quality of our tools. I do hope to see a wonderful iPhone coming. And I am really disappointed for the lack of market share of Windows phones, which I believe had a lot of interesting features

 

[epicrayban]

Don't forget that apple is sitting on an enormous amount of cash. Others do not have this resource (most definitely not Motorola!).

Even at the high end market, the iPhone, as a value, is questionable when compared to competition in the same tier. Samsung's flagships are in that range but the value you get out of them is more. It comes in the way of handrware and software features. Ditto many other Android flagships in their own way.

Apple does have the superior support. And there's certainly value in that. But there's no reason why they can't have both.

I hope their iPhones this Fall compete better. And by compete better, I mean at the technology itself. That's to say, more hardware and software features. Make more people's actual day-to-day uses and needs of their iPhones better.

 

[MRU]

I totally agree on your points. I'm not discussing about Apple's strategies. There are millions better skilled than me on this (especially here on MacRumors). My point is (sometimes I really wish my English to be better and no so "scholar") that until 2/3 years ago iPhone's offer was really a lot better than competitors, and so price tag was out of discussion. You couldn't buy a decent phone with 200$. Now differences narrowed and with two hundred dollars you can get most of the services available. Internet, social, schedules, mail, weather, reminders etc.
And if the doctor suggested to you that you should spend more than 600$ on your phone to feel better, well, now you have plenty of choices.

Your English is grand, so please don't feel need to excuse it.

I do agree with you, but it's an issue for all manufacturers of smartphones whether Apple or Android OEM.

The bottom segment really does offer great bang for buck and that's fantastic in general, but just as they make compelling argument against spending $$ on Apple, they equally make just a compelling case to skip the equally as pricy Android flagships.

I do think the great competition now in the bottom end of the market likely does affect Android flagship sales more than Apple's.

I also think we have reached a saturation point when it comes to flagship smartphones. There are less compelling reasons to upgrade each year or two years when very few things really tax these monster flagships and they last longer than ever.

We serial smartphone buyers here are certainly not representative of the general consumer. I'm on my 7th new phone this year already

 

[sofila]

We serial smartphone buyers here are certainly not representative of the general consumer. I'm on my 7th new phone this year already

You nailed it. The great numbers actually use their phones letting us the burden of talking about 16gb or 5,5" or 2450 mAh or 8 mpixels. Though life.

 

[I7guy]

Don't forget that apple is sitting on an enormous amount of cash. Others do not have this resource (most definitely not Motorola!).

Even at the high end market, the iPhone, as a value, is questionable when compared to competition in the same tier. Samsung's flagships are in that range but the value you get out of them is more. It comes in the way of handrware and software features. Ditto many other Android flagships in their own way.

Apple does have the superior support. And there's certainly value in that. But there's no reason why they can't have both.

I hope their iPhones this Fall compete better. And by compete better, I mean at the technology itself. That's to say, more hardware and software features. Make more people's actual day-to-day uses and needs of their iPhones better.

I do not think one of your biggest "gripes" are going to be addressed. Probably no filesystem access; no SD card...
[doublepost=1462745783][/doublepost]

I can not be 100 % sure about longevity. Support... the 2 years European warranty is more than enough.
But...as a long time Apple user I see Apple's "ecosystem" more as a trap than a benefit. I don't believe a single word about Apple's efforts on defending privacy and Google services works very well for our needs, given their multi-platform approach. Macs at home, Windows PC's at work, Android phones, Apple's iPods, all tools working.
With only Apple gear you're trapped. A golden one, but still a trap.
[doublepost=1462739040][/doublepost]
Moto G is an example. From my original post: "Android market offered in the last 2/3 years a good choice at ALL price level points." meaning that you can choose from basic to full-featured gear without missing features, just depending on your budget and taste. With Apple iPhones (pardon Phil Schiller, iPhones sounds much better...) you don't have this kind of choice. Hence the 80% of worldwide marketshare. It seems that the quality of life of many people around doesn't rely on a logo on the back.

The marketshare discussion. It also seems a lot of people like a "logo" on the back for whatever their own reasons are.

edit: I do not feel trapped in the apple ecosystem, I use windows and am used to complete flexibility.

 

[sofila]

The marketshare discussion. It also seems a lot of people like a "logo" on the back for whatever their own reasons are.

My thought about the logo is that only the logo itself is not enough. My feeling, guts feeling, is that once there was something more concrete behind the logo. It is a personal thing and even a billion accomplished users won't change that

edit: I do not feel trapped in the apple ecosystem, I use windows and am used to complete flexibility.

"You" was intended on general purpose. Anyway your fair points show an open mind. I think we both like to pick up what's best for us without any sort of prejudice. And again, competition help both of us on our "quest". Until 3 years ago supplying my family with useful and reliable smart phones would have costed me (plans excluded) 2500$ at minimum.
Now with less than 1000 we can be connected wherever we are in a satisfying manner. Android and Windows let us be not tethered and free to change whenever we want. It's also a matter of education for my daughters. You don't have to necessarily buy what you can afford, but the right tool for your needs, even if you don't have problems with money, luckily
[doublepost=1462747527][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1462745783][/doublepost].

edit: I messed up quoting your posts

 

[zonazolazia]

Even at the high end market, the iPhone, as a value, is questionable when compared to competition in the same tier. Samsung's flagships are in that range but the value you get out of them is more. It comes in the way of handrware and software features. Ditto many other Android flagships in their own way.

S7 has slower storage speed, worse fp scanner, worse performance (more heat when gaming/heavy task) than iPhone 6S. Not to mention support, update, carrier bloat, and many more. Doesn't that mean anything?

If you don't value a feature on a phone doesn't mean its not important.