Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple is essentially creating all in one hybrid devices, like Microsoft Surface Tablet line up. With the rumors that Apple is switching to ARM devices for their Mac line, Apple is going for Microsoft route.

First, Apple is discrediting Stylus, then Apple created Apple Pencil. Second, Apple is discrediting mouse input on touch devices, then Apple added mice input. For years, Apple discrediting Surface line as something half-assed product that is bad for everything. Now Apple is creating the same thing.

Apple fans has claiming iPad is designed for touch input and does not need mouse input. What made Apple changed their mind? The success of Microsoft Surface line made Apple rethink.

Except they aren't. Apple continues to keep macOS and iOS/iPadOS as separate operating systems and features.

The iPad Pro doesn't come with keyboards, trackpads, or styluses by default—it's designed as a touch-first system, and MacOS remains without touch capabilities. That they are trying to unify software capabilities is less about iPads and Macs merging* and more about reducing developer friction to support all their platforms.

Apple wants to sell more iPads, which they see as the future of computing for a large audience. In order to do that, they have to make the machines viable replacements for laptops. Hence, the moves they've made. That's completely different from the thought process that brought Microsoft to its convertibles.

*On an infinite timescale, are Macs and iPads going to merge? They might. But I'm not sure how that would make Apple "copying Microsoft" if ten years down the line they arrive at a similar point via an entirely different method. I also wouldn't hold anything Apple says as an ethos in high regard; Jobs was famous for publicly and loudly ******** on Feature X as something no one would need, until Apple had created Product Y that had Feature X in it six months or a year later. If anything, Apple under Tim Cook is more consistent than Jobs, not less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cape Dave
The first iPad was released around 10 years ago, 10 years after, iPad is still iPad. iPad hasn't taken over the world and replaced people's computers. 10 years after, tablet shipment has been declining year over year. I don't know how is this gonna be the future.

If tablet sales has declined it is simply because smartphones screens are bigger and more expensive
And thus the needs and possibility to buy a tablet has decreased
But iPad sales are still strong
 
You obviously do not understand the iPad and how this works to compare it to the Surface. Mouse/trackpad support on the iPad is an extension of touch.
Puh-lease. Do you mean it is still somewhat gimped with no right click? Or do you mean the annoying
'now you see it, now you don't" pointer display?
 
Ultimately Microsoft copied Apple by even trying to make tablet.... and let’s be honest the Surface isn’t a great tablet.
Since most of what I do on a tablet--aside from art--is browse the web, Surface was far better than
the mobile browser on the ipad. And yes, with touch. Apple has now caught up. Apple always had a much great media ecosystemthan MS, which definitely made the ipad a superior media platform.
[automerge]1584890376[/automerge]
It has a right click. And you can turn off the pointer animations.
I believe it has hover, not right click
 
Improvement does not mean jack to me when the performances is terrible. Sorry, iOS 13 is terrible, it is iOS 11 level of bad.
[automerge]1584580422[/automerge]


Tablet isn’t Apple‘s idea. This has been said over and over again
[automerge]1584580568[/automerge]


Yes. Unfortunately my iPad Pro was updated to iOS by mistake. I was constantly bombarded with update notice and I mistakenly installed iOS 13 on that iPad Pro. I wasn’t pay attention because i was side tracked. And oh boy, iOS 13 is terrible on iPad Pro 9.7

Stop assuming something is a fact just because you're suffering from an issue. My 9.7" pro is running just fine on iPadOS 13, as is my wife's.
 
Stop assuming something is a fact just because you're suffering from an issue. My 9.7" pro is running just fine on iPadOS 13, as is my wife's.
It’s great that it’s working fine for you; I haven’t had many issues with iOS 13 on my devices either except for the terrible mail.app syncing. But they’re really just stating their opinion; I wouldn’t get too defensive about it. A lot of people haven’t liked iOS 13.
 
Since Apple invented the mouse.. can we say that everyone else has been copying Apple for decades? By the way I am just trying to defuse the situation! :p:p

I love me my Apple, however they in no way invented the computer mouse. That credit goes to Bill English and Doug Englebart in the late 1960s and the "X-Y position indicator for a display system" and was first used in Xerox computers in the early 1970s. It was Englebart who coined the name as well, saying it reminded him of a rodent.

1584891170743.jpeg


Much of the tech we take for granted today actually came out of those heady exciting days. Whilst very much aged, it's worth seeking out "The mother of all demos" that Englebart and Stuart Brand gave in 1968.
[automerge]1584891690[/automerge]
It’s great that it’s working fine for you; I haven’t had many issues with iOS 13 on my devices either except for the terrible mail.app syncing. But they’re really just stating their opinion; I wouldn’t get too defensive about it. A lot of people haven’t liked iOS 13.

You see an opinion, I see someone attempting to state a fact. "And oh boy, iOS 13 is terrible on iPad Pro 9.7" doesn't sound like an opinion to me. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
I have had company issued Surface Pro and my personal iPad Pro. From usability and productivity stand point, Surface Pro is way batter than iPad Pro. I really failed to see why people hate Surface Pro so much, if I need full blown Windows environment, I can simply attach the Surface Keyboard and use it as full Windows PC. If I need tablet, I can still use it as tablet. It is fine tablet for watching videos, surfing internet.

I don't have the Surface Pro anymore, because i have left the company for parental leave. I am currently using my Windows laptop all the time and 3rd gen 12.9 iPad Pro is on my drawer for most of time. For me, at least, iPad Pro is still no match to Windows and all the Windows applications comes with it.
What would you want for the iPad Pro? asking for a friend...
 
I have 13.4 installed, and right click is working with my Logitech USB mouse. It brings up the contextual “Copy/Paste/Etc” menu the same way a long-press does.
thanks for the correction--that actually sounds useful
 
For some of us who remember, OWC years ago in coordination with another entity used to take Macbooks and modify them so that they had touch screens and could fold back like a tablet. This was around BEFORE Microsoft's offerings.
 
So Apple has never discredited any other manufacturer. They don’t need to. I used the Surface for work, and have a Surface Book right now for work, and I’m not sorry - it is a half-assed product. At least the Surface Book is better than the Surface, but not by much. Constant, constant problems. I hate the Surface and the Surface Book. I will never ever ever buy a Microsoft product for personal use. Using their products has discredited their products. Apple has nothing to do with it.

Apparently you missed Apple's PC vs Apple ads from ten years ago, where they mocked Windows.
 
I have had company issued Surface Pro and my personal iPad Pro. From usability and productivity stand point, Surface Pro is way batter than iPad Pro. I really failed to see why people hate Surface Pro so much, if I need full blown Windows environment, I can simply attach the Surface Keyboard and use it as full Windows PC. If I need tablet, I can still use it as tablet. It is fine tablet for watching videos, surfing internet.

I don't have the Surface Pro anymore, because i have left the company for parental leave. I am currently using my Windows laptop all the time and 3rd gen 12.9 iPad Pro is on my drawer for most of time. For me, at least, iPad Pro is still no match to Windows and all the Windows applications comes with it.

Well you're right from a MS Office standpoint, Office for iOS/iPadOS does not allow plugins for Excel.

YOu're on a 3rd gen iPad Pro ... I'm not certain if that model has the lightning or USB-C connector. Compared to the, now, 7TH gen Surface Pro ... it still does NOT have a USB-C connection, and still uses a proprietary charging and dock solution ... a huge oversight for Microsoft that I wonder what in the world was Mr Panos thinking? He's a great lead and has done great work with Microsoft, but proprietary charger & dock? eeesh.

Windows 10 Pro/LTSB/ENT/ETC all fail as a tablet using human touch. It's not as refined nor accurate as iPadOS / iOS. As someone stated earlier on this and added ... Surface still requires a pen / mouse & KB for use in Tablet mode for best data entry/manipulation/navigation.

but we all have our choices and opinions.
 
Stop assuming something is a fact just because you're suffering from an issue. My 9.7" pro is running just fine on iPadOS 13, as is my wife's.

That is good for you? I don't care about iOS 13 and i won't install it. For the matter of the fact, I am currently offloading all my iCloud photo library and moving away from iPhone entirely, until they release iOS 14 (and I will see how iOS 14 looks like).
[automerge]1585074176[/automerge]
Unlike Microsoft (and Samsung), Apple doesn’t need to mention a competitors products in its ads, because Apple’s products speak for themselves. So Apple has never discredited any other manufacturer. They don’t need to. I used the Surface for work, and have a Surface Book right now for work, and I’m not sorry - it is a half-assed product. At least the Surface Book is better than the Surface, but not by much. Constant, constant problems. I hate the Surface and the Surface Book. I will never ever ever buy a Microsoft product for personal use. Using their products has discredited their products. Apple has nothing to do with it.

And, I’ll ad, Microsoft was the first to develop any of the technology you’re talking about.
[automerge]1584889611[/automerge]


I do.

You missed entire PC vs Mac seriese of ads? Or you missed the part where Apple is making fun of Windows Vista back then?
[automerge]1585074371[/automerge]
Except they aren't. Apple continues to keep macOS and iOS/iPadOS as separate operating systems and features.

The iPad Pro doesn't come with keyboards, trackpads, or styluses by default—it's designed as a touch-first system, and MacOS remains without touch capabilities. That they are trying to unify software capabilities is less about iPads and Macs merging* and more about reducing developer friction to support all their platforms.

Apple wants to sell more iPads, which they see as the future of computing for a large audience. In order to do that, they have to make the machines viable replacements for laptops. Hence, the moves they've made. That's completely different from the thought process that brought Microsoft to its convertibles.

*On an infinite timescale, are Macs and iPads going to merge? They might. But I'm not sure how that would make Apple "copying Microsoft" if ten years down the line they arrive at a similar point via an entirely different method. I also wouldn't hold anything Apple says as an ethos in high regard; Jobs was famous for publicly and loudly ******** on Feature X as something no one would need, until Apple had created Product Y that had Feature X in it six months or a year later. If anything, Apple under Tim Cook is more consistent than Jobs, not less.

So does Microsoft Surface Pro does't come with keybaord, trackpad or styles by dafult. What are you trying to say? Does that makes Windows touch-first system?

If anything, Apple is taking Microsoft's playbook about Univeral apps that works with all kinds of devices, doesn't matter it is tablet, xBox or regular PC. Doesn't matter what screen size.
 
Last edited:
Stop assuming something is a fact just because you're suffering from an issue. My 9.7" pro is running just fine on iPadOS 13, as is my wife's.
I have 2 pro 9.7, one was updated on the very first day of beta, the other one only a month ago... In beta ios 13 was very rough, but it got better and better... Before updating the second one I compared the 2 for a while to see if the ipados one was slower... and while with most things they were identical with some apps ipados was actually slightly faster, ios 12 was never faster... Then I updated. By the way I had done a similar thing with the ipad air and ios 10 vs 12 (11 was a disaster...) and again ios 12 was faster than ios 10... I'd say that excluding ios 11 ios 13 is probably the fastest os since ios 8 (and man it has so many more features than ios 8...)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rui no onna
That is good for you? I don't care about iOS 13 and i won't install it. For the matter of the fact, I am currently offloading all my iCloud photo library and moving away from iPhone entirely, until they release iOS 14 (and I will see how iOS 14 looks like).

So, you've condemned an OS that you apparently haven't used properly yourself? Did you base this decision just on negative reports?
 
Disclaimer: I'm an English major, so my percentages make perfect sense to me.

75 percent of the time, I prefer a Mac for the ease of working with multiple windows/apps, the full size keyboard, the computational power, and the ability to run desktop applications. Usually, though, this 75 percent of the time occurs in my office or when I am working at home. I have multiple browser windows open, 2 different docs open, and I am working back and forth between items on a 27 inch monitor.

The other 75 percent of the time, I am shifting towards an iPad as preferential. When I'm in the classroom, I am generally displaying something I've already created (in my office) and don't need the same device (which is usually heavier and more unwieldy). I'm increasingly reading eBooks, pdfs, etc. and it's more natural on an iPad. iPad's offer pencil input, which adds to more "like writing in the margins" feel. For Web surfing, I'd rather be on by iPad.

The OTHER 75 percent of the time, I prefer my phone. I always have it. It's in my pocket. I can look something up quickly. I can avoid making contact with other people while walking around. I can access files I've created that I store in the cloud, etc. etc.

I mean I think our predispositions and use cases inform how we see these evolutions of the iPad. If I'm trying to do what I do the first 75 percent of the time on an iPad, it's a gimped Macbook. If I try to do what I'm doing the other 75 percent of the time on a Macbook Pro, it's a gimped iPad. If I try to do what I'm doing the OTHER 75 percent of the time on my iPad or Macbook, they're a gimped smartphone.

Personally, I dig the changes. I think Apple IS trying to think about how cursor integration should be different on a touch device and I think that mission has the ability to push innovation in input across all platforms, so that fundamental ways of interacting with computers don't remain stale and static.
You do realise I could say the same thing by just replacing your instances of using the Mac with a Thinkpad, paired at the desk with multiple monitor, right?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.