MP 7,1 Afterburner video accelerator card for new Mac Pro

[chfilm]

Sweeeeeet!
Well I think down the line, afterburner is a must have upgrade for me as a video editor, but for now I'll be good with 16 cores and will get a XDR first.. UNLESS someone can test if it helps to ENCODE Prores from H264 camera files. That would be a massive buy reason for me.

 

[PowerMike G5]

Sweeeeeet!
Well I think down the line, afterburner is a must have upgrade for me as a video editor, but for now I'll be good with 16 cores and will get a XDR first.. UNLESS someone can test if it helps to ENCODE Prores from H264 camera files. That would be a massive buy reason for me.

Yes this would be big for me as well.

That could does look amazing though for a ProRes workflow. Accelerated transcoding from H.264 or from RAW formats to ProRes HQ or ProRes RAW would make this a no brainer.

Keeping my eye out for more use cases as they get into the wild.

 

[chfilm]

Yes this would be big for me as well.

That could does look amazing though for a ProRes workflow. Accelerated transcoding from H.264 or from RAW formats to ProRes HQ or ProRes RAW would make this a no brainer.

Keeping my eye out for more use cases as they get into the wild.

Yes! Just all I want is to transcode any sh*t material they bring me from the shoot TO Prores 422 HQ or 4444 and online edit with that.

 

[PowerMike G5]

Yes! Just all I want is to transcode any sh*t material they bring me from the shoot TO Prores 422 HQ or 4444 and online edit with that.

Well if accelerated transcoding is possible, then it even makes sense to do that on all the footage because then the card will convert to decoding once editing. And it looks like it would provide such a smooth experience with that. Seems like you can get real complex with layers and effects without issues.

 

[chfilm]

Well if accelerated transcoding is possible, then it even makes sense to do that on all the footage because then the card will convert to decoding once editing. And it looks like it would provide such a smooth experience with that. Seems like you can get real complex with layers and effects without issues.

Yea exactly. I would just create really full quality online “Proxies” and then just stick with those throughout the entire pipeline. Honestly it has to help with this, otherwise the use case would be a bit too narrow I think. the question is- how much faster will it be to transcode such files?
The 16core Vega II should be pretty beefy to chew through the decoding of h264 and if the AB can then blast through the prores rendering...

 

[vladi]

If real time playback and output speed is your concern you really should look into SCRATCH with multiple GPUs. Not many people are familiar with it which is a true shame. It's a conforming tool but it can be used as online editor that doesn't require proxy workflow for any prosumer project, it chews up those 4K and 8K RAWs in real time.

No FPGa trickery needed

 

[PowerMike G5]

If real time playback and output speed is your concern you really should look into SCRATCH with multiple GPUs. Not many people are familiar with it which is a true shame. It's a conforming tool but it can be used as online editor that doesn't require proxy workflow for any prosumer project, it chews up those 4K and 8K RAWs in real time.

No FPGa trickery needed

I'm stuck mostly with Premiere and the Adobe ecosystem at the moment, primarily because my work is across different media companies. Some of my major work is at the major networks, so I need to be fluid within their ecosystem, which in this particular case, is Adobe.

 

[vladi]

I'm stuck mostly with Premiere and the Adobe ecosystem at the moment, primarily because my work is across different media companies. Some of my major work is at the major networks, so I need to be fluid within their ecosystem, which in this particular case, is Adobe.

In that case please be careful as of right now AB is only supported by Apple apps. I would expect AB support by Blackmagic as well as Adobe sometime in the future but Adobe has an extremely negative record when it comes to performance hardware implementation. Their GPUs support in both PP and AE is real bad compared to what other are doing.

 

[bsbeamer]

Would not expect major any Afterburner announcements until closer to NAB in April 2020. Most developers are still in the process of receiving their units...

 

[Ludacrisvp]

No idea if this has been asked / answered before (and maybe its just a stupid question) but could one put an afterburner card in a cMP?
I know the card looks massively long but i don't know if they are longer than what would / could fit in the cMP. Maybe on the 5,1 you'd have to remove the fan in the front of the PCIe slots to have it fit.
Just thinking that for some a $2k upgrade to the 5,1 may be a route to take before getting a 7,1 down the road.

 

[edgerider]

No idea if this has been asked / answered before (and maybe its just a stupid question) but could one put an afterburner card in a cMP?
I know the card looks massively long but i don't know if they are longer than what would / could fit in the cMP. Maybe on the 5,1 you'd have to remove the fan in the front of the PCIe slots to have it fit.
Just thinking that for some a $2k upgrade to the 5,1 may be a route to take before getting a 7,1 down the road.

I was wondering the same question but it will for sure needs catalina and my fear is that those card will be bottlenecked by the cpu and ram in a cMP.

 

[chfilm]

If real time playback and output speed is your concern you really should look into SCRATCH with multiple GPUs. Not many people are familiar with it which is a true shame. It's a conforming tool but it can be used as online editor that doesn't require proxy workflow for any prosumer project, it chews up those 4K and 8K RAWs in real time.

No FPGa trickery needed

Scratch is amazing color grading tool..my old flatmate has become a pro color grader and uses it exclusivel. Performance is insane, and yet nobody else uses it..

 

[bsbeamer]

They're on version 9. Hardly would have gotten to that point if "nobody" was using it... Was a competitor against Resolve and Autodesk tools for a long time. Resolve took over because of low price entry and that's really it. Everyone else gets their color tools in their NLE via plugin/effects and are happy with it, even if it requires rendering.

 

[joema2]

Yes! Just all I want is to transcode any sh*t material they bring me from the shoot TO Prores 422 HQ or 4444 and online edit with that.

Unfortunately AB does not address that. It is currently decode-only for ProRes and ProRes RAW. The Jonathan Morrison video does show how even ProRes can become CPU-limited for decode if using enough streams at high resolution, and AB benefits this.

In theory an FPGA can be programmed to decode H.264, and there are some academic papers written on that. However Quick Sync and T2 are already pretty fast at that. The question is could an FPGA be any faster.

It's tempting to say H.264/HEVC is for amateurs, but some pro cameras like the Panasonic EVA-1 use HEVC and even the $11,000 Sony FX9 uses XAVC-L Long GOP.

So there is a valid argument for multi-stream, super-fast, hardware-assisted decoding of H.264/HEVC.

You could argue that the amateurs can wait a day to transcode, it's the professionals who need to work immediately on a wide array of submitted 4k Long GOP material, and would be willing to pay handsomely for this capability.

 

[chfilm]

Unfortunately AB does not address that. It is currently decode-only for ProRes and ProRes RAW. The Jonathan Morrison video does show how even ProRes can become CPU-limited for decode if using enough streams at high resolution, and AB benefits this.

In theory an FPGA can be programmed to decode H.264, and there are some academic papers written on that. However Quick Sync and T2 are already pretty fast at that. The question is could an FPGA be any faster.

It's tempting to say H.264/HEVC is for amateurs, but some pro cameras like the Panasonic EVA-1 use HEVC and even the $11,000 Sony FX9 uses XAVC-L Long GOP.

So there is a valid argument for multi-stream, super-fast, hardware-assisted decoding of H.264/HEVC.

You could argue that the amateurs can wait a day to transcode, it's the professionals who need to work immediately on a wide array of submitted 4k Long GOP material, and would be willing to pay handsomely for this capability.

Hm Hm Hm.
It says that the AB helps with transcoding of prores, not encoding.
Encoding means encoding ProRes from uncompressed Video (wherever that occurs).
Transcoding means changing from one compressed format to another. So it COULD mean it helps with rendering ProRes files from h264s. I‘m absolutely aware that the AB right now doesn’t decode h264, but maybe it can take half the load of such a transcoding operation. 50% for CPU and GPU for the decoding/50% AB for the actual transcoding part. Or am I wrong here?

I dont know your Definition of professorial, but If I look at two typical examples that I had to deal with in the past 6 weeks, one was a film for Mercedes Benz about a brand new car and it was shot partially on sony cameras in some h264 mxf format, and the other one was a facebook series with some influencer, That also had some red prores files and some h264 Sony mxfs and GoPro h264 material.
And both shows were multicam 4K, sometimes up to 4 cameras At once.
On the trashcan I definitely had to use proxies, will be super interesting how these projects behave on my new machine.

But I really would like to edit stuff like this where I encounter mixed source footage in native resolution at least. If a show already has 7 TB of footage I‘m not even sure if encoding everything to ProRes 422 HQ first is an option..
Still even if only some camera streams natively are ProRes, I think the editing could benefit from the Afterburner because the CPUs could focus entirely on the none prores files.

 

[H. Flower]

If there’s time and space, I always convert to prores. The adobe products work so much better with it.

 

[chfilm]

If there’s time and space, I always convert to prores. The adobe products work so much better with it.

Yes yes and yes. But All too often there is no time and also no space

 

[PowerMike G5]

Hm Hm Hm.
It says that the AB helps with transcoding of prores, not encoding.
Encoding means encoding ProRes from uncompressed Video (wherever that occurs).
Transcoding means changing from one compressed format to another. So it COULD mean it helps with rendering ProRes files from h264s. I‘m absolutely aware that the AB right now doesn’t decode h264, but maybe it can take half the load of such a transcoding operation. 50% for CPU and GPU for the decoding/50% AB for the actual transcoding part. Or am I wrong here?

I dont know your Definition of professorial, but If I look at two typical examples that I had to deal with in the past 6 weeks, one was a film for Mercedes Benz about a brand new car and it was shot partially on sony cameras in some h264 mxf format, and the other one was a facebook series with some influencer, That also had some red prores files and some h264 Sony mxfs and GoPro h264 material.
And both shows were multicam 4K, sometimes up to 4 cameras At once.
On the trashcan I definitely had to use proxies, will be super interesting how these projects behave on my new machine.

But I really would like to edit stuff like this where I encounter mixed source footage in native resolution at least. If a show already has 7 TB of footage I‘m not even sure if encoding everything to ProRes 422 HQ first is an option..
Still even if only some camera streams natively are ProRes, I think the editing could benefit from the Afterburner because the CPUs could focus entirely on the none prores files.

Yes, transcoding to ProRes would be the catalyst for buying this card. I'm hoping a demo one appears at an Apple Store soon to try out.

 

[chfilm]

Yes, transcoding to ProRes would be the catalyst for buying this card. I'm hoping a demo one appears at an Apple Store soon to try out.

We’re getting closer- it significantly reduced exporting times to prores from a prores raw clip. Now why nobody tests this with other footage is beyond me, but maybe leave a comment below as I already did so that he’ll do it in the next video!

 

[PowerMike G5]

We’re getting closer- it significantly reduced exporting times to prores from a prores raw clip. Now why nobody tests this with other footage is beyond me, but maybe leave a comment below as I already did so that he’ll do it in the next video!

Thanks for linking this. Yes, fervently waiting to find out the results with transcoding from other codecs to ProRes. I'm hoping there's one to demo in the various stores around me, so I can try to do this test myself!

 

[bsbeamer]

I'm hoping there's one to demo in the various stores around me, so I can try to do this test myself!

I was told to check back in mid-January 2020. Have several stores within a short enough distance and they all cannot accommodate until after the new year. They are still not 100% sure they will have a demo unit in store, but the Apple Business reps said one could be arranged for demo if planning in advance. Back in the day they would actually let you lease for a day to do this in your own office (if you had a purchase track record), but those arrangements have largely disappeared.

 

[joema2]

Hm Hm Hm.
It says that the AB helps with transcoding of prores, not encoding...

Under "What does Afterburner do", the Apple site says AB accelerates "accelerates decoding and playback of multiple streams of ProRes and Pro Res RAW video files."

About the Afterburner accelerator card for Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Apple Afterburner is an accelerator card for Mac Pro (2019), created to enhance Apple ProRes and ProRes RAW workflows for film and video professionals.

support.apple.com

Note: *decoding* and *playback*, not encoding.

The same page says "Faster transcoding and sharing of ProRes and ProRes RAW projects and files."

Should we interpret that as AB also accelerates *encoding* to ProRes and ProRes RAW? Not necessarily, because FCPX cannot encode ProRes RAW at all - that is a camera capture format. If it can't be encoded at all, you definitely cannot accelerate that.

Regular ProRes can be encoded, but the above statement does not necessarily imply AB accelerates that. It may simply provide "faster transcoding" by accelerating the decode side.

In the Max Yuryev test, encoding from a ProRes RAW timeline to ProRes 422 output was faster with AB. It definitely made a difference, we just don't know if that's solely due to accelerating the decode side, or if it also accelerates the encode side. The Apple web site currently only mentions decode acceleration.

 

[deconstruct60]

Hm Hm Hm.
It says that the AB helps with transcoding of prores, not encoding.
Encoding means encoding ProRes from uncompressed Video (wherever that occurs).
Transcoding means changing from one compressed format to another. So it COULD mean it helps with rendering ProRes files from h264s. I‘m absolutely aware that the AB right now doesn’t decode h264, but maybe it can take half the load of such a transcoding operation. 50% for CPU and GPU for the decoding/50% AB for the actual transcoding part. Or am I wrong here?

So in the process of changing from one compressed format to another means there is a decompression followed by compression. The Afterburner card doesn't have to do both sides of that to be helpful. It is presently confirmed to ProRes (multiple variations of that format) decompression it still can offload that part from the CPU/GPU. This is all done concurrently by 'piping' the decompressed data directly into a compression another compression pipe. When running two different encoders at the same time on a single CPU/GPU then have to share space and resources.

Stuff like H.264/H.265 compression into the commonly deployed formations is typically already in the GPUs. Apple has been a bit behind the curve in using anything other than their own stuff and QuickSync (Intel). Afterburner is not particularly likely going to cover those because there is already fixed function hardware in the system you bought that covers those in the general color space. ( and over time in the 10bit space as HDR becomes more common.) . There is few good reasons to take a FPGA and cover hardware you already have that does a pretty good job when have.

I think Apple has focused on decoding because it is a bit simpler. They stream in the file data and just shuffle the uncompressed video to the 'framebuffer". Don't have to deal much with buffering at storage drive latencies.

Still even if only some camera streams natively are ProRes, I think the editing could benefit from the Afterburner because the CPUs could focus entirely on the none prores files.

Atmos recorders mean can take multiple camera raw outputs and put them into ProRes format. The scope here is not what is fixed function inside the camera.
[automerge]1576766021[/automerge]

Under "What does Afterburner do", the Apple site says AB accelerates "accelerates decoding and playback of multiple streams of ProRes and Pro Res RAW video files."
...
The same page says "Faster transcoding and sharing of ProRes and ProRes RAW projects and files."

Should we interpret that as AB also accelerates *encoding* to ProRes and ProRes RAW?

If starting with ProRes and going to another ProRes there is zero disconnect there. The first step in transcoding is a decompress. if you decompress slower there is zero chance the compression in the second half is going to go any faster. You have to have the uncompressed data to run the compression in another format variation.

Second if the workload is spread out then have more resources. ProRes RAW to PreRes higher compression would run faster if Afterburner is doing the decompression work and the CPU/GPU is doing the compression work as long as the overhead of moving it from one to the other isn't too high. ( Afterburner is so fast at it can make up the copy difference. )

Not necessarily, because FCPX cannot encode ProRes RAW at all - that is a camera capture format.

Actually not entirely. ProRes RAW is compressed. It is a basically a lossless compress.

 

[deconstruct60]

In that case please be careful as of right now AB is only supported by Apple apps.

that isn't what folks from Apple have said. Afterburner is hooked into AV Foundation libraries that provided with macOS. Those apps that use the AV Foundation library to open/handle ProRes files will be delegated to Afterburner if it is present and handled in software if it is not. the Foundation library does the delegating; not the apps. That isn't necessarily restricted to Apple written apps. It is restricted to macOS. ( so highly unlikely going to get Afterburner support in Windows. )

For the 3rd party apps that "reinvented the wheel" and do their own custom ProRes open/handle library and completely bypass what Apple wrote for them..... yeah they'd have to change.


But the notion Apple is hiding or not enabling 3rd party apps to use this isn't any more restricted than the rest of major macOS foundation library code. Or that there is some "down to the chip level" API you have to explicitly call. There is no direct access to the Afterburner in the Apple apps either. ( Apple apps just don't avoid the Apple libraries. )

Folks are conflating two things. One is trying to reprogram the FPGA in the Afterburner card to do something that it doesn't do. That Apple isn't likely to open up. The Afterburners is going to solve every format for everybody.... well the Foundation libraries doesn't do that now. It isn't Afterburner's 'job' to expand that scope. It is more so to pick one aspect of what is currently done and do it much more faster with extremely low GPU/CPU utilization.

RED and Apple worked on performance tuning RED's transcoders for Metal. Blackmagic should be doing the same thing.

I would expect AB support by Blackmagic as well as Adobe sometime in the future but Adobe has an extremely negative record when it comes to performance hardware implementation. Their GPUs support in both PP and AE is real bad compared to what other are doing.

that really isn't a good expectation because that isn't natively built into the Apple Foundation libraries. There is code that "plugs in" from those 3rd parties but Apple is probably not giving them access to Afterburner internals. And Apple isn't very likely going to do all the work for them of encoding their stuff into the FPGA. ( Blackmagic has open source aspects so Apple could do some of the work solely on their own. But there is likely going to be a steady stream of stuff they could do with their own formats also. )

Metal and general high compute access to the GPU for GPGPU is already the platform for third party high compute. And Apple has some basic high performance math libraries that may/may not be handy. From a software vendor perspective that is a much better path anyway since portable to all Macs; not just one that also has a very expensive card. For a fixed size R&D budget getting improvements out of 20M macs is way better than something in the range of just thousands.

 

[chfilm]

I kinda just would like to order one at this point and try it out myself... but it's not even available yet. Probably a good thing for my wallet