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U.S. models differ in SIM slot and mmWave antenna, which means different parts and chassis. Chinese models have an entirely different SIM tray. Personally, I think it's down to two options: 1) remove port entirely and rely on MagSafe or 2) accommodate with USB-C.
Magsafe and Wireless are still ports, and Wireless is still wired, that 1-2mm gab won't be an acceptable way to circumvent USB-C.
But I hope Apple tries it, would be funny to see them paying 10% of their world wide annual turnover fine, and also risk an EU wide full sales stop or additional fines.
 
Magsafe and Wireless are still ports, and Wireless is still wired, that 1-2mm gab won't be an acceptable way to circumvent USB-C.
But I hope Apple tries it, would be funny to see them paying 10% of their world wide annual turnover fine, and also risk an EU wide full sales stop or additional fines.

There's no ambiguity in the text of the law. The law doesn't say "ports." The law literally says it only applies to devices that are "capable of being recharged via wired charging."

An iPhone without USB-C or Lightning is incapable of wired charging. MagSafe would fully bypass it.

 
There's no ambiguity in the text of the law. The law doesn't say "ports." The law literally says it only applies to devices that are "capable of being recharged via wired charging."

An iPhone without USB-C or Lightning is incapable of wired charging. MagSafe would fully bypass it.

No it doesn’t but wireless charging has a wire, magsafe has a wire, i didn’t encounter a “wireless” charger without wire, yet.

The wireless part of it is just the port/plug, call it as you want, that still attaches and has a physical contact to the device.

The only discussion Apple could kick off is, when is wireless wireless. Is a energy transmission gap of 1mm wireless, or is a small atom sized gap wireless already, or is wireless only when you can walk freely around like with Wi-Fi.

There are gaps between everything you plug and connect, it’s just a matter of the look at “zoom” level.
 
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No it doesn’t but wireless charging has a wire, magsafe has a wire, i didn’t encounter a “wireless” charger without wire, yet.

The wireless part of it is just the port/plug, call it as you want, that still attaches and has a physical contact to the device.

The only discussion Apple could kick off is, when is wireless wireless. Is a energy transmission gap of 1mm wireless, or is a small atom sized gap wireless already, or is wireless only when you can walk freely around like with Wi-Fi.

There are gaps between everything you plug and connect, it’s just a matter of the look at “zoom” level.

It's clear the EU doesn't interpret the world the way you do. Otherwise, the EU directive in question wouldn't differentiate between wired and wireless.
 
It's clear the EU doesn't interpret the world the way you do. Otherwise, the EU directive in question wouldn't differentiate between wired and wireless.
Might be, we’ll see.

Anyway, the law is not written on stones, once Apple abuse it they’ll change it. As stated in the document you’ve linked, they want to harmonize wired and wireless charging technologies, and will keep actively monitoring the market and technological development. Sounds funny, but the EU is slowly getting faster at passing new and changing laws.

Would be funny to see all pissed off customers trying to get all these raw and prores stuff out of their iPhones over wi-fi.

App development and debugging over wi-fi would be even funnier.

Oh and we would have to say goodbye to many iPhone accessories, like mic’s, instruments, video stuff, etc.

It’s also Apples interest to replace the antique lightning port that has a speed of USB2.0 🤣. Dunno what drove them to keep that crap running that long, they didn’t even reengineer it, to make it e.g. faster.

Apple should thank the EU for forcing them to innovate.
 
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Okay I'm gonna stop you right there fam.

Did you know the iPhone can record 4K footage? Did you also know that the iPhone Pros can record in ProRes?

Do you know how how big 4K and ProRes footage are? Gigabytes worth.

Do you know what data transfer speed Lightning is? USB 2.0. Limited to small megabytes

USB-C transfers gigabytes in less than a minute


This is why millions wanted the iPhone on USB-C already.
The new iPad has USB-C and it’s restricted to USB 2.0 speeds.
The speed has absolutely nothing to do with what port they are using.
The 2017 iPad Pro had a lightning port that could do up to USB 3.0 speeds.
As mentioned before the latest iPad 10th generation has a USB-C port that’s restricted to USB 2.0 speeds.
Absolutely no reason to think Apple won’t do that on the iPhone as well.
Apple *could* put faster lightning on the iPhone like they did the 2017 iPad Pro a couple years ago, but they didn’t.
They could also put a slow 2.0 speed restricted USB-C on the iPhone, which is exactly what I think they will do.
 
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Precisely, there’s nothing special about an EU with no Apple products. And there’s nothing remarkable about an Apple that doesn’t sell products in the EU, they’d be down in revenue, but otherwise functionally the same as they are today.

With Apple’s share in the EU market, there’s not even that many citizens, on the whole, that would be put out. And, if they REALLY still wanted Apple products, there would always be the gray market.
I wouldn’t say there wouldn’t be ‘that many citizens that would be put out’ in the EU. iPhones and iPads are immensely popular here. 31% of the smartphone market is iOS in Europe so it’s not a small amount. People would be annoyed but if Android was the only other option, people would move on. In the UK where I am from the iPhone is is used by around 54% and the highest of any European country. Apple would lose on average $92bn a year based on current revenue if they pulled out of Europe so have more to lose than the people here buying their products. I think it’s naive to think that wouldn’t affect pricing, innovation and product quality elsewhere in the world as a result, not to mention consumer feedback and trend analysis.
 
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But I hope Apple tries it, would be funny to see them paying 10% of their world wide annual turnover fine, and also risk an EU wide full sales stop or additional fines.
They could just raise the prices in the EU to cover it. As it is, they’re already risking an EU wide full sales stop with the current price hikes!
 
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I wouldn’t say there wouldn’t be ‘that many citizens that would be put out’ in the EU. iPhones and iPads are immensely popular here. 31% of the smartphone market is iOS in Europe so it’s not a small amount. People would be annoyed but if Android was the only other option, people would move on. In the UK where I am from the iPhone is is used by around 54% and the highest of any European country. Apple would lose on average $92bn a year based on current revenue if they pulled out of Europe so have more to lose than the people here buying their products. I think it’s naive to think that wouldn’t affect pricing, innovation and product quality elsewhere in the world as a result, not to mention consumer feedback and trend analysis.
The numbers I’d been referencing were indicating more like 20% and below across the EU. And, since the UK isn’t considered an EU country anymore, that would mean that them, like the US and the rest of the world, would see no functional difference in the products/services they have access to if the impossible happened and they ended business in the EU.

Apple’s already making WELL over what’s needed to run their businesses and stores, pay their suppliers, pay their employees and continue to pour dollars into R&D and provide a return to investors. Assuming the $92bn a year excludes the UK, that would be a significant dent, but they’d still be pulling in $286bn in revenue from the rest of the world. Prices for those outside the EU wouldn’t have to go up, their research and development budget is $20 million, so that’s not affected either, and consumer feedback from the EU would be invalid as Apple would no longer be doing business in the EU. For the rest of the world, it’d likely stay at it’s current level as they’ve noticed nothing different in what they have.

A company making $286bn dollars would not suddenly be in “dire straits” and need to significantly alter their business practices.

EDIT:
Exploring this pretend scenario further, what Apple reports as “Europe” isn’t JUST EU nations.
It’s European countries and India, the Middle East, and Africa. So, in order to get a REAL idea of what the financial impact to Apple would be, we’d have to be able to pull India, the Middle East and Africa numbers from what Apple reports as “Europe”. And, any other countries that would be considered “Europe” but not in the EU like the UK. Fun stuff![/b][/b]
 
The numbers I’d been referencing were indicating more like 20% and below across the EU. And, since the UK isn’t considered an EU country anymore, that would mean that them, like the US and the rest of the world, would see no functional difference in the products/services they have access to if the impossible happened and they ended business in the EU.

Apple’s already making WELL over what’s needed to run their businesses and stores, pay their suppliers, pay their employees and continue to pour dollars into R&D and provide a return to investors. Assuming the $92bn a year excludes the UK, that would be a significant dent, but they’d still be pulling in $286bn in revenue from the rest of the world. Prices for those outside the EU wouldn’t have to go up, their research and development budget is $20 million, so that’s not affected either, and consumer feedback from the EU would be invalid as Apple would no longer be doing business in the EU. For the rest of the world, it’d likely stay at it’s current level as they’ve noticed nothing different in what they have.

A company making $286bn dollars would not suddenly be in “dire straits” and need to significantly alter their business practices.

EDIT:
Exploring this pretend scenario further, what Apple reports as “Europe” isn’t JUST EU nations.
It’s European countries and India, the Middle East, and Africa. So, in order to get a REAL idea of what the financial impact to Apple would be, we’d have to be able to pull India, the Middle East and Africa numbers from what Apple reports as “Europe”. And, any other countries that would be considered “Europe” but not in the EU like the UK. Fun stuff![/b][/b]

You originally stayed the UK should not be considered in this as it’s not part of the EU. It’s not part of the EU anymore but it is still part of the continent of Europe in geographical terms. To expand this further as you said in your edit as far as Apple is concerned what they consider as the European region is actually EMEA or Europe, Middle East and Africa and apparently also includes India. Either way the UK has to be a part of this conversation.
 
The numbers I’d been referencing were indicating more like 20% and below across the EU. And, since the UK isn’t considered an EU country anymore, that would mean that them, like the US and the rest of the world, would see no functional difference in the products/services they have access to if the impossible happened and they ended business in the EU.

Apple’s already making WELL over what’s needed to run their businesses and stores, pay their suppliers, pay their employees and continue to pour dollars into R&D and provide a return to investors. Assuming the $92bn a year excludes the UK, that would be a significant dent, but they’d still be pulling in $286bn in revenue from the rest of the world. Prices for those outside the EU wouldn’t have to go up, their research and development budget is $20 million, so that’s not affected either, and consumer feedback from the EU would be invalid as Apple would no longer be doing business in the EU. For the rest of the world, it’d likely stay at it’s current level as they’ve noticed nothing different in what they have.

A company making $286bn dollars would not suddenly be in “dire straits” and need to significantly alter their business practices.

EDIT:
Exploring this pretend scenario further, what Apple reports as “Europe” isn’t JUST EU nations.
It’s European countries and India, the Middle East, and Africa. So, in order to get a REAL idea of what the financial impact to Apple would be, we’d have to be able to pull India, the Middle East and Africa numbers from what Apple reports as “Europe”. And, any other countries that would be considered “Europe” but not in the EU like the UK. Fun stuff![/b][/b]

EU regs on things like USB-C, emissions on vehicles and quite a lot of consumer laws still apply to the UK, plus it’s still a European country. A third of Apples revenue in from Europe so there’s no getting around the fact that Apple needs Europe more than Europe needs Apple.
 
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They could just raise the prices in the EU to cover it. As it is, they’re already risking an EU wide full sales stop with the current price hikes!
They could, sure, but who cares except Apple, they can try, let’s see how far they come, when their whole EU market breaks away.

Don’t forget Apple is a luxury fashion gadget company, exaggerated but that‘s like if Gucci would stop selling in the EU, nothing ground breaking or infrastructure relevant.

Due to the US sanctions, China might break away anyway, they won’t set their last and second strongest market in danger, they will simply bite the dust.

Additionally the EU and U.S. is going hand and hand, the ball is rolling in the U.S. too, and the bipartisan bill is still not off the table. It takes longer in the U.S. to launch such things, but when it hits it hits heavier than in the EU.

Stay tuned!
 
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They could, sure, but who cares except Apple, they can try, let’s see how far they come, when their whole EU market breaks away.
I can’t wait for them to actually try a price hike of additional 20% or more just to see how market goes. I am sure they will find enough excuses to justify it, for example heightened supply chain pressure and lower production capacity.

And Chinese people already don’t have enough money to survive ongoing covid lockdown, let alone saving their salary for 3 mo+ over even a base model iPhone 14 Pro Max.
 
I can’t wait for them to actually try a price hike of additional 20% or more just to see how market goes. I am sure they will find enough excuses to justify it, for example heightened supply chain pressure and lower production capacity.

And Chinese people already don’t have enough money to survive ongoing covid lockdown, let alone saving their salary for 3 mo+ over even a base model iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Yep, but I think the prices will go up in the U.S. too, probably next year or so.

Well, it’s already more or less the same in the U.S., there is a reason why Apple primarily subsidize their iPhones, because U.S. citizens also can’t effort it, except when it’s paid in chunks over 2 years. I‘ve always been lucky and able to put the whole sum on the table, but most people can’t.

It’s just a matter of time till the card house collapses. Not everybody prioritize an iPhone over food on the table, but yeah there are a few.
 
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Prices are already over what is acceptable in Europe so I think if Apple put them up again next year, we’ll see a shift away by a significant segment of the market. I won’t be paying more than I have this year and seeing the Android manufacturers keeping their prices the same as last year makes me question if after a decade on iOS I should make a decision. I love the iPhone and it’s all I know, but £1100 and £1200 for a phone these days is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Prices are already over what is acceptable in Europe so I think if Apple put them up again next year, we’ll see a shift away by a significant segment of the market. I won’t be paying more than I have this year and seeing the Android manufacturers keeping their prices the same as last year makes me question if after a decade on iOS I should make a decision. I love the iPhone and it’s all I know, but £1100 and £1200 for a phone these days is absolutely ridiculous.
Yep, specially, when they can’t offer anything that differs much from the competition.
Luxury item manufacturers will be the first ones to get a hit.

To be frank, I mean every el‘cheapo Android phone does the same as an iPhone, if you put any tech emotions aside, all pure decadence.
 
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It’s just a matter of time till the card house collapses. Not everybody prioritize an iPhone over food on the table, but yeah there are a few.
Can’t believe we are the generation that can see the day of world collapse.

Someone must come forward bravely and teach Apple a hard lesson, showing them keeping their ludicrous profit margin is not only unsustainable, but also unacceptable.
 
And yet the United States has a significantly larger economy than that of combined Europe or European Union, despite your larger (sans Alaska size) landmass and 1/3—double the additional population (EU vs Europe). It’s easy to twist figures to suit your point even if you aren’t actually making one.

Assuming we are “ignorant” to “just how big the EU is” simply because we recognize the United States as a singularly more important market for American companies VS combined Europe is just more anti American rhetoric from certain members of this site. The American economy is stronger, the average American has greater disposable income. The economic demographics of Europe (or EU) as a whole fall SIGNIFICANTLY short of the American economy. You could cherry pick individual data points from individual EU countries, but that would just be more twisting of the facts.

Apple was never going to pull out of Europe. But it seems like many people in this thread seem to think this singular issue that the EU has forced “progress” on somehow makes them (EU/Europe) more important than apples home market. You know, the one with the strong economy and where they had a strong desire to NOT touch price points. North America accounts for around 40% of net revenue vs 20-25% for Europe. Three countries vs dozens. But please, continue to tell us Americans how “ignorant” North Americans are and that we are the ones with an inflated sense of self worth/importance 🙄😂

I think you quite expertly (if unintentionally) proved my point.

Btw, I am a American, born and raised. I just don’t have a view of the world that screams “American exceptionalism” or “American hegemony.”
 
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Wishful thinking. Apple will never diverge the connector capabilities of new iPhones in that way— how can you market an iPhone with Lightning in North America when it has a much faster data transfer speed with USB-C in Europe. Plus, as others have pointed out, it would result in two many SKUs. Not going to happen for any new iPhones released starting in fall ‘23.

However, I can see them simply dropping older models that don’t have USB-C from the European market (an iPhone SE or last year’s phones, for instance). That means Europe will only get next year’s new phones, making them more expensive for the continent.

Well, I did say “I can see that happening.” Not the same as “it will happen.” I don’t know what Apple will do but I can see the outcome I suggested or the outcome you suggested as one of several outcomes. I think it’ll be interesting to see what they really do.
 
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And yet the United States has a significantly larger economy than that of combined Europe or European Union, despite your larger (sans Alaska size) landmass and 1/3—double the additional population (EU vs Europe). It’s easy to twist figures to suit your point even if you aren’t actually making one.

Assuming we are “ignorant” to “just how big the EU is” simply because we recognize the United States as a singularly more important market for American companies VS combined Europe is just more anti American rhetoric from certain members of this site. The American economy is stronger, the average American has greater disposable income. The economic demographics of Europe (or EU) as a whole fall SIGNIFICANTLY short of the American economy. You could cherry pick individual data points from individual EU countries, but that would just be more twisting of the facts.

Apple was never going to pull out of Europe. But it seems like many people in this thread seem to think this singular issue that the EU has forced “progress” on somehow makes them (EU/Europe) more important than apples home market. You know, the one with the strong economy and where they had a strong desire to NOT touch price points. North America accounts for around 40% of net revenue vs 20-25% for Europe. Three countries vs dozens. But please, continue to tell us Americans how “ignorant” North Americans are and that we are the ones with an inflated sense of self worth/importance 🙄😂
The current GDP (PPP - Purchasing Power Parity) difference between USA and EU is lower than 5%, i wouldn’t call this a “significantly larger economy”, before corona if was even less than 1% difference.

Yes, Apple will never pull out of the EU, the EU market is too important and will stay important. Anyway, USA and the EU will continue to go hand in hand as BFF to be able to compete against other nations like China, etc.

2050 forecast:
 
I think you quite expertly (if unintentionally) proved my point.

Btw, I am a American, born and raised. I just don’t have a view of the world that screams “American exceptionalism” or “American hegemony.”

I think some Americans, not all (certainly not the ones I know personally) think everybody in the world wishes they were American. That’s simply not the case at all and economics aside, many parts of Europe are great to live in and we wouldn’t want it any other way.
 
Yep, specially, when they can’t offer anything that differs much from the competition.
Luxury item manufacturers will be the first ones to get a hit.

To be frank, I mean every el‘cheapo Android phone does the same as an iPhone, if you put any tech emotions aside, all pure decadence.

That’s the thing, nothing I do on my iPhone apart from probably FaceTime is exclusive to my iPhone. All my emails, web browsing and social media can be done on any smartphone. It’s just iPhones are nice and simple to use, but if there’s a significant cost that comes with that, i’ll put that aside and just get a cheaper device. People are already actively snubbing these high prices and I’ve witnessed friends already upgrade to Samsung phones this upgrade as the 14P/14PM launched at an extortionate price increase over its predecessor. People here defend these increases but in the real world there’s tough choices to be made and right now it’s all about managing spending. I really hope Apple feel the pain of their greed this year and it drives prices down to sensible levels for all of us.
 
The current GDP (PPP - Purchasing Power Parity) difference between USA and EU is lower than 5%, i wouldn’t call this a “significantly larger economy”, before corona if was even less than 1% difference.

Yes, Apple will never pull out of the EU, the EU market is too important and will stay important. Anyway, USA and the EU will continue to go hand in hand as BFF to be able to compete against other nations like China, etc.

2050 forecast:


According to this, GDP PPP (per capita) adjusted for international $ is $69,286.50 for the United States and $48,436.30 for the EU. That would be a difference of nearly +43% over the EU. Of course the EU and Europe individually have a handful of countries (2 for EU—Luxembourg/Ireland, and 2 for Europe—Norway/Switzerland) that outperform the United States. But the fact remains that purchasing parity is not equivalent across the vast majority of Europe. GDP overall is 25% smaller in the EU vs US despite the EU having a population over 30% larger. PPP, even adjusted for COL in various markets and currencies, is going to be significantly lower per capita (and it is).

Edit: Sorted by PPP I see two EU countries that beat the US in PPP, Luxembourg and Ireland. And both best it significantly. 70%+. Number three on the list for EU PPP is Denmark with (-7%). That doesn’t seem to paint the narrative of the EU being neck and neck. And if you live in other major EU countries, Germany (-16%), France (-27%), Italy (-34%), Spain (-41%), Portugal (-48%), etc the numbers just continue to drop like a rock.

Edit 2: Before you try and change the PPP and GDP metrics you were using, what I used above was GDP PPP (per capita), and why:

“GDP per capita based on purchasing power parity (PPP). PPP GDP is gross domestic product converted to international dollars using purchasing power parity rates. An international dollar has the same purchasing power over GDP as the U.S. dollar has in the United States. GDP at purchaser's prices is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the products.”
 
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According to this, GDP PPP (per capita) adjusted for international $ is $69,286.50 for the United States and $48,436.30 for the EU. That would be a difference of nearly +43% over the EU. Of course the EU and Europe individually have a handful of countries (2 for EU—Luxembourg/Ireland, and 2 for Europe—Norway/Switzerland) that outperform the United States. But the fact remains that purchasing parity is not equivalent across the vast majority of Europe. GDP overall is 25% smaller in the EU vs US despite the EU having a population over 30% larger. PPP, even adjusted for COL in various markets and currencies, is going to be significantly lower per capita (and it is).

Edit: Sorted by PPP I see two EU countries that beat the US in PPP, Luxembourg and Ireland. And both best it significantly. 70%+. Number three on the list for EU PPP is Denmark with (-7%). That doesn’t seem to paint the narrative of the EU being neck and neck. And if you live in other major EU countries, Germany (-16%), France (-27%), Italy (-34%), Spain (-41%), Portugal (-48%), etc the numbers just continue to drop like a rock.

Edit 2: Before you try and change the PPP and GDP metrics you were using, what I used above was GDP PPP (per capita), and why:

“GDP per capita based on purchasing power parity (PPP). PPP GDP is gross domestic product converted to international dollars using purchasing power parity rates. An international dollar has the same purchasing power over GDP as the U.S. dollar has in the United States. GDP at purchaser's prices is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the products.”

I think that is largely irrelevant as even the poorest in our communities are using the latest iPhones on contracts. Whether that is a good choice or not is up to them. Don’t try and paint it that Europe is poorer so that’s the reason iPhones are less popular because that’s tripe. Preferences are different here and iPhones aren’t desired as much as they are in the US at this point. This has always been the case and possibly down to marketing being more aggressive by retailers promoting Android etc.
 
I think that is largely irrelevant as even the poorest in our communities are using the latest iPhones on contracts. Whether that is a good choice or not is up to them. Don’t try and paint it that Europe is poorer so that’s the reason iPhones are less popular because that’s tripe. Preferences are different here and iPhones aren’t desired as much as they are in the US at this point. This has always been the case and possibly down to marketing being more aggressive by retailers promoting Android etc.

Now you are just putting words in my mouth. I never painted the picture that “Europe is poorer so that’s the reason iPhones are less popular.” What was quoted from me originally that started all this was me presenting a fact: 3 North American countries comprise a non-insignificant portion of apples global sales vs 27 EU countries (40ish% vs 25ish%).

All economic statistics I can find point to Americans having greater disposable income and access to material things than their counterparts in Europe. Europeans on the other hand have prioritized quality of life.

I have not said, nor implied, that I believe the American way to be the only way. Nor do I believe it to make us “superior” or anything else. The facts support Americans having higher material wealth standards (Luxembourg would be an obvious exception) while Europeans (on average) focused on societal benefits that are not GDP and wealth dependent/focused.

You also have stated here (and elsewhere) that iPhones aren’t “as desired as much as in the us at this point” and the data also doesn’t support that. Android in the last 4 years has lost 9% of the total market that it held in Europe (73.54% in Sept 2018 vs 64.67% Sept 2022) while in the United States the last 4 years for android (43.57% Sept 2018 vs 44.24% Sept 2022). By my math, iPhones have been GAINING market share in Europe, not losing interest, and America remains statistically unchanged (+0.67% to android). Again, facts not presenting the same picture you are trying to paint 🤔

I would agree that marketing is probably a large factor in the market differences more than wealth (though increased prices combined with devalued currency are possibly going to compound the growth issue to some extent), and that the market in Europe has become a growing priority for Apple. Both Europe and the United States are down from record market share highs before android became the budget option (options at every price point), but Europe’s past 5 years are showing a growing preference TOWARDS iPhones. And please, don’t throw your “corporate purchases” excuse at me that I’ve heard a hundred times. The statistical relevance of those sales never seems to have any corresponding data to support the narrative that European consumers near exclusively prefer android, and European corporations are the ones buying all the iPhones.

In the past FOUR years Apple has gone from 25% to 34% of the European market. That doesn’t seem like the performance of disinterest, especially in such a short time.
 
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