Other All These People Said They Had Adapters Already...

[deeddawg]

The EU's common charger legislation is about exactly what Apple is doing, untying the charger from the device. The purpose of this legislation is to reduce e-waste and make sure that all chargers works with all kinds of electronics. And the only way to reduce e-waste without reducing the number of devices is to produce fewer chargers than devices.

MEPs call for a common electronic charger | Topics | European Parliament

MEPs want to make life easier for consumers and cut electronic waste through the introduction of a common charger for all mobile devices.

www.europarl.europa.eu

I was thinking about that as well and wondered if that was a factor in choosing to include the USBC Lightning cable -- did the commission ever come up with that proposal in July or did that get derailed with everything else this year?

 

[Jimmy James]

I’m with OP on this. They changed the connection and didn’t provide a plug. This would be particularly annoying for someone migrating to iPhone. I’d factor the extra cost as part of the phone and it adds up.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The EU's common charger legislation is about exactly what Apple is doing, untying the charger from the device. The purpose of this legislation is to reduce e-waste and make sure that all chargers works with all kinds of electronics. And the only way to reduce e-waste without reducing the number of devices is to produce fewer chargers than devices.

MEPs call for a common electronic charger | Topics | European Parliament

MEPs want to make life easier for consumers and cut electronic waste through the introduction of a common charger for all mobile devices.

www.europarl.europa.eu

If a family has 20 devices they need to charge, they should not get 20 chargers. Maybe they can get away with 10.
When I travel I can travel with one charger which will charge a MacBook, an iPhone, an iPad, an Apple Watch, an Apple Battery Case, a power bank and even the remote controller for a drone. I don't need 7 chargers.

Also chargers usually has much longer lifetime than devices themselves. You can buy a charger today and probably use it for 10 years if not more. So instead of getting a charger for every device maybe you can get one for every third device you own.

The initiative behind that was to make chargers for mobile phones universal, all USB-C. Apple needed to make the port on the base of the iPhone USB-C to fall into line with that. They’ve met them half way by only putting that on one end of the cable.

 

[deeddawg]

The initiative behind that was to make chargers for mobile phones universal, all USB-C. Apple needed to make the port on the base of the iPhone USB-C to fall into line with that. They’ve met them half way by only putting that on one end of the cable.

That's not what the proposal seems to say though? They reference chargers not charging ports. I'm interpreting charger as what some would call power adapter or brick.

Could you point to where the port on the device is referenced?

Parliament wants binding rules on common chargers to be tabled by summer | News | European Parliament

The European Parliament calls on the Commission to put forward beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.

www.europarl.europa.eu

JOINT MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION on a common charger for mobile radio equipment | RC-B9-0070/2020 | European Parliament

JOINT MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION pursuant to Rule 132(2) and (4) of the Rules of Procedure replacing the following motions: B9-0070/2020 (PPE) B9-0072/2020 (S&D) B9-0074/2020 (Verts/ALE) B9-0075/2020 (Renew) B9-0076/2020 (GUE/NGL) B9-0085/2020 (ECR) on a common charger for mobile radio equipment...

www.europarl.europa.eu

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

That's not what the proposal seems to say though? They reference chargers not charging ports.

Could you point to where the port on the device is referenced?

Parliament wants binding rules on common chargers to be tabled by summer | News | European Parliament

The European Parliament calls on the Commission to put forward beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.

www.europarl.europa.eu

JOINT MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION on a common charger for mobile radio equipment | RC-B9-0070/2020 | European Parliament

JOINT MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION pursuant to Rule 132(2) and (4) of the Rules of Procedure replacing the following motions: B9-0070/2020 (PPE) B9-0072/2020 (S&D) B9-0074/2020 (Verts/ALE) B9-0075/2020 (Renew) B9-0076/2020 (GUE/NGL) B9-0085/2020 (ECR) on a common charger for mobile radio equipment...

www.europarl.europa.eu

I haven’t had time to read the link, just commenting on my knowledge around this as it’s been in the news for a couple of years now. The initiative was to bring manufacturers together to produce a charger that suited all mobile phones in order to cut down on e-waste. You can’t plug a lightning cable into anything other than an iPhone but you can use the plug.

 

[deeddawg]

I haven’t had time to read the link, just commenting on my knowledge around this as it’s been in the news for a couple of years now. The initiative was to bring manufacturers together to produce a charger that suited all mobile phones in order to cut down on e-waste. You can’t plug a lightning cable into anything other than an iPhone but you can use the plug.

Yes, there was lots of discussion about device ports - but I'm not sure that wasn't a misinterpretation. Thus my question, since the source documents I linked don't seem to reference that at all -- just references to "charger" which suggests the power adapter.

Not sure why you say lightning is iphone only? I've been plugging lightning cables into my iphone & ipad for eight years now, across several generations, and added the airpods to the mix a couple years ago. Pretty good platform continuity IMHO. Much more consistent than that myriad mini-B, micro-B, USB3 micro-B, and USBC assortment I've collected across the same timeframe.

Edit - and that USBC connector is a nightmare of different data formats/capabilities too - but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yes, there was lots of discussion about device ports - but I'm not sure that wasn't a misinterpretation. Thus my question, since the source documents I liked don't seem to reference that at all -- just references to "charger" which suggests the power adapter.

Not sure why you say lightning is iphone only? I've been plugging lightning cables into my iphone & ipad for eight years now, across several generations, and added the airpods to the mix a couple years ago. Pretty good platform continuity IMHO. Much more consistent than that myriad mini-B, micro-B, USB3 micro-B, and USBC assortment I've collected across the same timeframe.

Edit - and that USBC connector is a nightmare of different data formats/capabilities too - but that's a discussion for another thread.

I said iPhone due to this being an iPhone thread. Of course I have been plugging lightning cables into my iPads for years now too.

 

[dubels]

Not third party. We are finding out that third party USB c bricks are incapable of achieving 15w charging rate with MagSafe.

Which ones? I am using third party charging bricks fine with MagSafe. Also what battery level did these people run test at? Anything above 80% and the phone will default against fast charging to protect the battery. I am not sure if Ampere app is accurate but it shows 22.38w when my battery is charging below 40% on MagSafe through my RavPower 65w. Went down to 15w when battery was above 50%. My 18w Apple charger that came with my ipad pro also has no issues hitting 15w when the battery was below 80%.

 

[4sallypat]

No, there is a limit to what each device will accept. On top of that each power adapter has a particular set of voltage and amperage outputs, not all of which work with every device. It’s all in the fine print and adds even more complexity regarding which power adapter to get for what device. Welcome to the world of multiple standards in electronic devices. ENJOY!!!

MagSafe Charger Only Charges at Full 15W Speeds With Apple's 20W Power Adapter [Updated]

Alongside the iPhone 12 and 12 Pro models, Apple introduced a new MagSafe charger that attaches to the magnetic ring in the back of the devices,...

www.macrumors.com

Bet you buy the 20W Apple power adapter if you have the MagSafe charger. Betcha
And you thought you didn’t need another power adapter, let that be a lesson to you, Apple get that last few bucks from your wallet! Oh and by the way, they are not chargers. They are transformer/rectifiers (power adapters). The actual charger is built into the phone. Just sayin......

Will I blow up the iPhone 12 using a 96W (Macbook Pro 16") or 61W (Macbook Pro 13") USB C charger or is it safe ??

I have so many chargers and Lightning cables it's not funny -
USB-A: 5W, 10W, 12W, multiport USB charge hubs (2A), etc..
USB-C: 29W Apple, 30W HP, 45W Dell, 61W Apple, 81W Apple, 96W Apple, 100W Aukey.....

 

[LongWayHome]

Will I blow up the iPhone 12 using a 96W (Macbook Pro 16") or 61W (Macbook Pro 13") USB C charger or is it safe ??
View attachment 975407
I have so many chargers and Lightning cables it's not funny -
USB-A: 5W, 10W, 12W, multiport USB charge hubs (2A), etc..
USB-C: 29W Apple, 30W HP, 45W Dell, 61W Apple, 81W Apple, 96W Apple, 100W Aukey.....

No you won't blow it up. It will just charge extremely slow. Apple has seemingly crippled all of the chargers outside of their own 20W charger, which actually only delivers about 15W to the phone. All of your other chargers there will charge the phone but it will take an extremely long time.

 

[C DM]

The headphone jack wasn't good for consumers. The switch to cds from cassette wasn't good for consumers.

And Apple at least recognized that aspect of it and did something about it by not only including updated headphones that worked without the headphone jack but also a converter for headphones too. So, Apple's own example demonstrates the difference between how something of that sort can be (and has been) handled when consumers are accounted for at least on some level.

 

[HEK]

Will I blow up the iPhone 12 using a 96W (Macbook Pro 16") or 61W (Macbook Pro 13") USB C charger or is it safe ??
View attachment 975407
I have so many chargers and Lightning cables it's not funny -
USB-A: 5W, 10W, 12W, multiport USB charge hubs (2A), etc..
USB-C: 29W Apple, 30W HP, 45W Dell, 61W Apple, 81W Apple, 96W Apple, 100W Aukey.....

No power adapter will “blow up” your iPhone. The charger built into the iPhone will only accept up to what it was designed for. Most of the power adapters you have will NOT provide the correct voltage and amperage combination for the fastest charge. You will get maximum charging from the 29W and 30W Apple power adapters. Also, that maximum will only happen when the phone is below approximately 50% charge. As the phone gets to a higher state of charge, the built in charger will meter back the wattage until at 100% it will only trickle charge intermittently.

The other higher wattage chargers put out that higher wattage at voltages that the iPhone does not use. They are meant for Macbooks and other devices. So buying them to charge the phone actually provides less rapid a charge. Any one of the power adapters will charge the iPhone, just not at the maximum level.

Apple has engineered the system to protect the phone, protect the battery, and protect the power adapter.

 

[4sallypat]

No power adapter will “blow up” your iPhone. The charger built into the iPhone will only accept up to what it was designed for. Most of the power adapters you have will NOT provide the correct voltage and amperage combination for the fastest charge. You will get maximum charging from the 29W and 30W Apple power adapters. Also, that maximum will only happen when the phone is below approximately 50% charge. As the phone gets to a higher state of charge, the built in charger will meter back the wattage until at 100% it will only trickle charge intermittently.

The other higher wattage chargers put out that higher wattage at voltages that the iPhone does not use. They are meant for Macbooks and other devices. So buying them to charge the phone actually provides less rapid a charge. Any one of the power adapters will charge the iPhone, just not at the maximum level.

Apple has engineered the system to protect the phone, protect the battery, and protect the power adapter.

Very HELPFUL!
Thanks for the clearing that up.

Since all my Macbooks are connected either to docks or hubs which have their own power adapter, I have lots of these USB-C chargers laying around so I guess I'll put the 18W and 29W to use at work and travel.

 

[HEK]

No you won't blow it up. It will just charge extremely slow. Apple has seemingly crippled all of the chargers outside of their own 20W charger, which actually only delivers about 15W to the phone. All of your other chargers there will charge the phone but it will take an extremely long time.

Apple did not “cripple” the other power adapters. They were designed to supply the wattage for a desired device. They also happen to have additional circuits to provide some wattage for other devices like the iPhone. Just not at the highest rate possible.

There are inherent losses when using inductance charging. A 20W power adapter running through the inductance coil only provides 15W of usable energy. The rest is lost to resistance and heat. Even Apple can not change the laws of physics.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Apple did not “cripple” the other power adapters. They were designed to supply the wattage for a desired device. They also happen to have additional circuits to provide some wattage for other devices like the iPhone. Just not at the highest rate possible.

There are inherent losses when using inductance charging. A 20W power adapter running through the inductance coil only provides 15W of usable energy. The rest is lost to resistance and heat. Even Apple can not change the rules of physics.

Was going to say... my MacBook 61/87w, Anker 21w, and other chargers sure charged my 11 Pro Max and 12 Pro REALLY FAST. My Kill-a-Watt definitely disagrees with a "cripple" assumption.

But sure makes a catchy clickbait title . Cuz you know Apple is so horribly evil. (/Sarcasm).

 

[compwiz1202]

The only people this shorts is people who have NEVER owned an iPhone and to my knowledge Samsung devices since I believe their phone still comes with a USB type A power brick. Otherwise you probably either have a brick with a compatible cable or a brick already

Or people who always sell the old device with everything that was included.

 

[compwiz1202]

That's fine if 1. you already have a wireless charger and 2. you don't mind waiting an eternity for your phone to charge.

That is the dumbest defense for not including a charger. Whether I agree with it or not, saying because you already pay so much much for a device does not mean you should have to pay more just to get it to work out of the box. That's almost the equivalent of buying a car without a way of putting fuel in it.

Exactly, if anything you would expect to get everything you need to use the device for $1k. I can see eliminating earbuds because they aren't essential. I'm sure a good number of people have no USB-C port yet.

 

[deeddawg]

Exactly, if anything you would expect to get everything you need to use the device for $1k. I can see eliminating earbuds because they aren't essential. I'm sure a good number of people have no USB-C port yet.

Sure, there'll be a number of folks who don't already have USBC ports.

Though unless they have no other apple devices from the past few years, chances are they already have a Lightning / USBA charging solution which they can use. Or they may have a Qi setup they can use as well. In time when someone buys a multiport charger they can select one with USBC and use the cable they got with the iphone12.

Worst case scenario - the occasional individual with no USBC power sources and no USBA power sources and no USBA/Lightning cables ends up buying Lightning/USBA cable & brick for a few bucks at their nearest grocery/drug/convenience/hardware store. These things are everywhere these days, even out here in the sticks.

If a charging solution wasn't ubiquitous and inexpensive then I expect Apple wouldn't have made this move. However, various other devices already don't come with bricks and aren't usable if you can't charge them: Airpods. GoPros. Garmin Fenix running watches. Aftershokz Aeropex headphones. Various powerbanks. Series 6 Apple Watches. Everyone buying those seems to have figured out how to charge them.

Good time to rip the bandaid off and start cutting down on the number of useless single port Drawer Denizens.

Reportedly Samsung may be following suit too. Good.

 

[4sallypat]

Sure, there'll be a number of folks who don't already have USBC ports.

Though unless they have no other apple devices from the past few years, chances are they already have a Lightning / USBA charging solution which they can use. Or they may have a Qi setup they can use as well. In time when someone buys a multiport charger they can select one with USBC and use the cable they got with the iphone12.

Worst case scenario - the occasional individual with no USBC power sources and no USBA power sources and no USBA/Lightning cables ends up going to their nearest grocery/drug/convenience/hardware store and buys a Lightning/USBA cable & brick for a few bucks.

If a charging solution wasn't ubiquitous and inexpensive then I expect Apple wouldn't have made this move. However, various other devices already don't come with bricks and aren't usable if you can't charge them: Airpods. GoPros. Garmin Fenix running watches. Aftershokz Aeropex headphones. Various powerbanks. Series 6 Apple Watches. Everyone buying those seems to have figured out how to charge them.

Good time to rip the bandaid off and start cutting down on the number of useless single port Drawer Denizens.

Reportedly Samsung may be following suit too. Good.

Well said!

With the iPhone 12 - how many generations of Apple phones that have shipped with the 5W chargers, I would say a majority of the population has access to these inexpensive 5W charging blocks with a Lightning cable....

I have tons of unused: mini USB, Micro USB, USB-A and USB-C chargers laying around plus all my vehicles have USB-A and USB-C charging ports, international voltage converters that have USB-A & C ports plus I have many portable LiIon battery power packs that all have USB ports - way too many...

 

[LongWayHome]

Apple did not “cripple” the other power adapters. They were designed to supply the wattage for a desired device. They also happen to have additional circuits to provide some wattage for other devices like the iPhone. Just not at the highest rate possible.

There are inherent losses when using inductance charging. A 20W power adapter running through the inductance coil only provides 15W of usable energy. The rest is lost to resistance and heat. Even Apple can not change the laws of physics.

"For maximum charging speeds with the MagSafe Charger and an ‌iPhone 12‌ or 12 Pro, Apple's 20W power adapter is required, and older power adapter options won't work as well. Third-party companies will need to come out with new chargers that use the particular power profile that Apple is using to provide the optimum amount of power before a third-party charger will be able to provide the full 15W with the MagSafe Charger."

So, none of those chargers in the picture are going to explode his phone Apple has effectively crippled all of their old chargers and pretty much all 3rd party chargers. They will not supply the wattage necessary to fast charge the phone and its going to take much longer to charge it, which is exactly what I said.

Sorry but I wasn't sure if he was using those chargers with Magsafe or not so none of what I wrote may apply.

 

[LongWayHome]

Sure, there'll be a number of folks who don't already have USBC ports.

Though unless they have no other apple devices from the past few years, chances are they already have a Lightning / USBA charging solution which they can use. Or they may have a Qi setup they can use as well. In time when someone buys a multiport charger they can select one with USBC and use the cable they got with the iphone12.

Worst case scenario - the occasional individual with no USBC power sources and no USBA power sources and no USBA/Lightning cables ends up buying Lightning/USBA cable & brick for a few bucks at their nearest grocery/drug/convenience/hardware store. These things are everywhere these days, even out here in the sticks.

If a charging solution wasn't ubiquitous and inexpensive then I expect Apple wouldn't have made this move. However, various other devices already don't come with bricks and aren't usable if you can't charge them: Airpods. GoPros. Garmin Fenix running watches. Aftershokz Aeropex headphones. Various powerbanks. Series 6 Apple Watches. Everyone buying those seems to have figured out how to charge them.

Good time to rip the bandaid off and start cutting down on the number of useless single port Drawer Denizens.

Reportedly Samsung may be following suit too. Good.

And when their phone catches fire or something goes wrong with it Apple claims no responsibility and says "You weren't using our certified charger so the fault is yours."

Sarcasm, but it has happened and will happen again.

 

[HEK]

And when their phone catches fire or something goes wrong with it Apple claims no responsibility and says "You weren't using our certified charger so the fault is yours."

Sarcasm, but it has happened and will happen again.

Have you seen the teardowns of non Apple power adapters? Look it up on YouTube, there is a valid reason for fires, as the design of SOME non Apple power adapters leave a great deal to be desired. Bad isolation and cheap inferior components of the 120/240V AC side allowing current to jump to low voltage DC side has caused fires. It is for sure the user’s fault when using inferior power adapters.

I question the logic of spending plus $1,000 for phone and getting the power adapter at the gas station to save $10 bucks.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Have you seen the teardowns of non Apple power adapters? Look it up on YouTube, there is a valid reason for fires, as the design of SOME non Apple power adapters leave a great deal to be desired. Bad isolation and cheap inferior components of the 120/240V AC side allowing current to jump to low voltage DC side has caused fires. It is for sure the user’s fault when using inferior power adapters.

I question the logic of spending plus $1,000 for phone and getting the power adapter at the gas station to save $10 bucks.

At the same time you can get a Belkin or Anker equivalent for half the price of the Apple version too. Both have been top sellers on Amazon with promo deals over the last week. No point paying £19 when you can pay £10.

 

[LongWayHome]

Have you seen the teardowns of non Apple power adapters? Look it up on YouTube, there is a valid reason for fires, as the design of SOME non Apple power adapters leave a great deal to be desired. Bad isolation and cheap inferior components of the 120/240V AC side allowing current to jump to low voltage DC side has caused fires. It is for sure the user’s fault when using inferior power adapters.

I question the logic of spending plus $1,000 for phone and getting the power adapter at the gas station to save $10 bucks.

That was exactly my point. So when the above poster says someone can run out to a grocery store and buy a cheap charger I'm not sure that's the best idea.

 

[UBS28]

It is just pure greed by Apple, not for environmental reasons. If it was, Apple would have made the iPhone cheaper as a compensation.

So it is about more profit in the end rather than the “environment”.