All We Know About Maximizing CPU Related Performance

[DJenkins]

After reading this, the the solution to my temptations became as clear to me as the nose on my face is now. It was not my imagination. Some things do change even more than I would ever guess: Supermicro makes a motherboard that allows you to tweak the CPU (albeit minimally) and the memory on Sandy and Ivy Bridge Xeon systems.

Nice find Tutor. A good way to wring extra value out of those CPUs.

Any reason why the PCIe slots would be so limited compared to their other boards carrying some 4 x 16 lane slots??

 

[Tutor]

Nice find Tutor. A good way to wring extra value out of those CPUs.

Any reason why the PCIe slots would be so limited compared to their other boards carrying some 4 x 16 lane slots??

I can easily get a stable overclock of 7%, but not much more than a few tenths of a percentage, by placing one of my E5-2687Ws in my single CPU slotted MSI X79A-GD45 (a relatively small motherboard) with
• 3 PCI Express gen3 x16 slots
- PCI_E1 & PCI_E4 support up to PCIE x16 speed
- PCI_E6 supports up to PCIE x8 speed
• 4 PCIE x1 slots (that all get covered if you're using 3 double wide PCIe cards).

Neither EVGA with its SR-X, nor Asus with its Z9PE-D8 WS could achieve Supermicro's feat of getting a two CPU solution to achieve a stable overclock of 7%. The posts on EVGA's and Asus's forums regarding overclocking their two CPU - 7 PCIe slotted solutions have one thing in common - stable overclocks beyond 3-4% are extremely rare.

My guess is that a number of factors entered into Supermicro's decision not to offer a 4 x16 double wide PCIe slotted clock tweaking solution like Asus and EVGA did. For the 4 x16 PCIe slots to be useable for GPUs, they would have to be double wide. The more functional/useable x16 (full length) PCI-e slots on a motherboard, the larger the motherboard has to be. The larger the motherboard, the more CPUs and the more other components on the motherboard, the harder it is to make overclocking an easy, stable affair. Overclockers would prefer a smaller motherboard form factor than a larger one, especially when they have to buy a proprietary case solution for the motherboard, recognizing that Supermicro's EE ("Enhanced Extended") ATX motherboard is not small in the absolute, but it is a lot smaller than some of Supermicro's other proprietary motherboards. Supermicro's initial overclocking offering is CPU, not GPU, focused. Because many non-GPU PCIe cards are half length, Supermicro obviously decided that 2 x16 (full length) + 3 x8 (half length) + 1 x4 (half length) PCIe slots are enough for most users whose system focus is on wringing extra value out of their CPUs stably. Additionally, unlike EVGA and Asus who had much prior experience in making clock tweaking motherboards, Supermicro, to my knowledge, didn't have such experience. Thus, their first foray into this space is astounding for its quality and achievement and surely required some investment that Supermicro has to recover; so to keep the motherboard's price low enough to result in enough sales to recover investment, Supermicro probably decided to economize where possible and PCIe slots took a hit. I just hope that Supermicro sells enough of these clock tweaking motherboards so that this offering is just the beginning.

 

[habitullence]

After reading this, the the solution to my temptations became as clear to me as the nose on my face is now. It was not my imagination. Some things do change even more than I would ever guess: Supermicro makes a motherboard that allows you to tweak the CPU (albeit minimally) and the memory on Sandy and Ivy Bridge Xeon systems.

I'm completely new to the hackintosh scene, my frustration with current Mac Pro and disappointing benchmarks for new one brought me here.

You obviously have a lot of knowledge in this area and my sincerest thanks for making the effort to share it with others. Would really appreciate it if you could get me started on my own journey...

If the new Mac Pro turns out to be a lemon, would the system you're describing here be the one to build?

You've probably been asked this a million times before but if I want to learn what you know in the realm of tweaking performance, hackintoshing, etc., what path would you recommend? How would you suggest I learn the fundamentals and progress?

Hopefully someday we'll be able to hack brains too

 

[Yok]

Last bit of data in my sig. is my Cinebench 11.5 (CB11.5 xCPU) score under Win2008 R2 with two 4P E5-4650 Supermicro 8047R-7RFT+ systems.

Is the 48.5 score for both systems combined or the score for each 4p system individually? Finally got my rig put together and I'm getting between 26.47 and 28.87 on Cinebench 11.5 64-bit/WinServer 2012. Here's the specs if anyones interested:

4x E5-4650 (Engineering samples for $500 each off ebay)
8x 16GB 1600Mhz RAM
2x 500Gb Samsung 840 Evo SSD in Raid0 for OS (Random Read = 988MB/s, Random Write = 846MB/s)
7x 3TB WD Caviar Green HDDs in raid5 (16.3TB)
1x GTX 590

Without the 7x HDDs, the 590 and postage it was about US$5900. Considering a full-spec Mac Pro with 2x SSD and 64GB RAM is just over US$9000...


Just did a SiSoft Sandra Benchmark and it came in at #22. I'm sure I could tweak it a bit more. Maybe Win Server 2008 R2 could squeeze a bit more out of it?

I'm out of town for a week tomorrow but I can do some tests if anyone wants when I'm back.

 

[Tutor]

Is the 48.5 score for both systems combined or the score for each 4p system individually?

That score is for just one. The other one gets just a little over 47.

As indicated above, CPUs may vary in performance and, thus, so will scores. This is less likely only if the CPUs are part of the same batch - good luck to anyone who gets that prize, especially one with a 4 CPU system. More CPUs => more possible variations in performance.

Are you using heatsinks with fans mounted on them? That makes a world of difference.

 

[Yok]

Ahh, thought it was a bit low! Bumped up the threads in Cinebench from 32 to 64 threads. Now I get 39.7 so that helps

Stock heatsinks, 7 HDDs and 2ssds blocking the airflow. I'll invest in some better heat sinks asap. Thanks!

 

[Tutor]

Ahh, thought it was a bit low! Bumped up the threads in Cinebench from 32 to 64 threads. Now I get 39.7 so that helps

Stock heatsinks, 7 HDDs and 2ssds blocking the airflow. I'll invest in some better heat sinks asap. Thanks!

I'm glad that I went back and added the pic. See, a 10+ point jump isn't too shabby, especially when you consider that 10 points is what some system's score.

 

[habitullence]

You thought The Invisible Man was fiction? You'd be wrong.

 

[Tutor]

... .

If the new Mac Pro turns out to be a lemon, would the system you're describing here be the one to build?

There are many systems that I've described in this thread, of which the last one is just my most current description. Let your needs and particularly your software needs dictate your build. Things that I'd need to know include, but are not limited to, what's your budget, is the system going to help you earn money, and what do you intend to do on the system and with what software? Otherwise, the result could be disappointing and you could end up wasting time and money.

You've probably been asked this a million times before but if I want to learn what you know in the realm of tweaking performance, hackintoshing, etc., what path would you recommend? How would you suggest I learn the fundamentals and progress?

You should answer the questions that I posed to you, above. Then, study this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86 . Next, you might want to read the articles referenced in the footnotes there. Also, you should study post #1 of this thread and all of the following posts, and regularly visit this thread for updates. You should also take a look at sites internally referenced in this thread, and topics that interest you or that you believe are relevant to what you want to know, at sites such as, but not limited to, http://www.insanelymac.com , http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php (especially the buyer's guide) , http://www.osx86project.org , http://rampagedev.wordpress.com/premium-technical-support/sr-2-production-system/ and http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forum.php . Importantly, if you have any questions along the way, just ask.

Hopefully someday we'll be able to hack brains too ... .

I've been hacking my brain for more than 55 years. One hacks his/her brain by always feeding it and using it to do things. Note my avatar - it Leonardo's da Vinci's Vitruvian Man. You might profit from reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci. Leonardo is one of my tutors [but, there are many others such as Norman Schachter (High School Principal), Ollie Matson (High School Coach), Golden Harris (High School Guidance Counselor), and Jack Cuneo (High School Chemistry Teacher)]. Also, you should view the About Me information in my public profile. As an example of brain feeding, when I first entered Los Angeles High School, I misused a word in class and my teacher told me that I should have read the dictionary. Because my parents always taught me to be obedient to and not to question persons in authority, I went home and told my mother what my teacher had told me to do. My mother agreed that I should do it. She bought me a blue Webster's Dictionary (which I still cherish). With that new dictionary in hand, I counted the number of pages in the dictionary and divided that number by 365, and each day thereafter I would study the number of pages to get me through this task in one year. After completing this task, I went back to that teacher and told her what I had done. She said that I had done a great job, but also that she intended only that I should have used the dictionary to look that one word up. Time wasted? Most certainly not. I had college, graduate school and a career coming done the pike. If I had originally asked that teacher what did she really mean and let laziness kick in, today I'd surely be dumber.

I'm fully aware that I've suggested that you do a lot of time consuming things. All that I've learned about technology, I've learned on my own because I wanted to learn it. We are composites of the things that we aggressively pursue and others who light our paths. Leonardo's life's works has taught me, most importantly, three things: (1) that my limits are only those that I impose upon myself, (2) that all areas of study are to be aggressively pursued and interrelated by me if I am to be truly creative and (3) that using what I know only serves to confirm and increase what I know.

You thought The Invisible Man was fiction? You'd be wrong.

To me, it is still a fictional work. Some questions are quick to answer and others take more time. No man or woman is invisible to me because everyone beyond the 3rd degree of consanguinity is, at most, one of my distant cousins. All of my relatives, no matter how distant - by blood or geography, are deserving of the utmost in love and respect.

 

[jasonvp]

Hey Tutor -

OK, I'll do that with the Tyan, going from one, to two ..., to eight Titans.

IF you're also so inclined: dig into your BIOS and kill hyperthreading for one of the tests. For this test, you'd want to leave your GPU count constant. The interest point here: will reducing the number of vcores (in half, basically), have a positive or negative effect on overall performance of PPro.

 

[Tutor]

hey tutor -



if you're also so inclined: Dig into your bios and kill hyperthreading for one of the tests. For this test, you'd want to leave your gpu count constant. The interest point here: Will reducing the number of vcores (in half, basically), have a positive or negative effect on overall performance of ppro.

ok.

 

[habitullence]

There are many systems that I've described in this thread, of which the last one is just my most current description. Let your needs and particularly your software needs dictate your build. Things that I'd need to know include, but are not limited to, what's your budget, is the system going to help you earn money, and what do you intend to do on the system and with what software? Otherwise, the result could be disappointing and you could end up wasting time and money.

I have my own computer programming business and I've been programming for the past decade. As I said before, my workstation's started to seem slow so one goal is to get more performance but another would be to continue my journey into the world of hardware to extend my skill set.

With programming I guess that the most strenuous tasks are compiling, running multiple virtual machines, and sometimes copying large data files around. Other programming tasks are fairly trivial.

Currently photography and videography are hobbies but I'd like to bring them into the business.

First photography, mostly because I love it - reason I do most things - but also to get me away from the computer a bit, even though ultimately that's where I'll end up. The idea is to get outside, see the world, and hopefully make some money along the way.

Second videography, I've been working on some concepts and would like to start turning something into reality in the not too distant future.

I guess both of the above are covered by Adobe's Creative Cloud - Lightroom, Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects.

Another hobby is writing and recording music, mostly with Logic and NI Komplete.

There's also a smaller requirement for 3D, initially for design work but maybe later with videography. I've used Maya and Lightwave in the past.

When it comes to budget, the programming business is going really well so I'm looking for the best system possible that meets my requirements. I guess I'd start raising my eyebrows above $6/7k.

You should answer the questions that I posed to you, above. Then, study this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86 . Next, you might want to read the articles referenced in the footnotes there. Also, you should study post #1 of this thread and all of the following posts, and regularly visit this thread for updates. You should also take a look at sites internally referenced in this thread, and topics that interest you or that you believe are relevant to what you want to know, at sites such as, but not limited to, http://www.insanelymac.com , http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php (especially the buyer's guide) , http://www.osx86project.org , and http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forum.php . Importantly, if you have any questions along the way, just ask.

I'm hungry, feed me!! Serious though, really appreciate the support. I've already started digesting a few of those..

I've been hacking my brain for more than 55 years. One hacks his/her brain by always feeding it and using it to do things. Note my avatar - it Leonardo's da Vinci's Vitruvian Man. You might profit from reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_vinci. Leonardo is one of my tutors [but, there are many others such as Norman Schachter (High School Principal), Ollie Matson (High School Coach), Golden Harris (High School Guidance Counselor), and Jack Cuneo (High School Chemistry Teacher)]. Also, you should view the About Me information in my public profile. As an example of brain feeding, when I first entered Los Angeles High School, I misused a word in class and my teacher told me that I should have read the dictionary. Because my parents always taught me to be obedient to and not to question persons in authority, I went home and told my mother what my teacher had told me to do. My mother agreed that I should do it. She bought me a blue Webster's Dictionary (which I still cherish). With that new dictionary in hand, I counted the number of pages in the dictionary and divided that number by 365, and each day thereafter I would study the number of pages to get me through this task in one year. After completing this task, I went back to that teacher and told her what I had done. She said that I had done a great job, but also that she intended only that I should have used the dictionary to look that one word up. Time wasted? Most certainly not. I had college, graduate school and a career coming done the pike. If I had originally asked that teacher what did she really mean and let laziness kick in, today I'd surely be dumber.

That's a fantastic story. I'm actually quite familiar with da Vinci, he's one of my role models too along with many others. I guess I'm really a brain hack too. If you're willing to pass on the knowledge, I'm more than happy to receive it.

I'm fully aware that I've suggested that you do a lot of time consuming things. All that I've learned about technology, I've learned on my own because I wanted to learn it. We are composites of the things that we aggressively pursue and others who light our paths. Leonardo's life's works has taught me, most importantly, three things: (1) that my limits are only those that I impose upon myself, (2) that all areas of study are to be aggressively pursued and interrelated by me if I am to be truly creative and (3) that using what I know only serves to confirm and increase what I know.

Wise words, I think we have similar mindsets. My quest was really ignited at university, particularly by one of my third year tutors, Brian Whitehead. He really taught me that life wasn't so much about answers but questions and asking the right ones. Ever since then my thirst has been unquenchable. I'm accustomed to early mornings and late nights.

To me, it is still a fictional work. Some questions are quick to answer and others take more time. No man or woman is invisible to me because everyone beyond the 3rd degree of consanguinity is, at most, one of my distant cousins. All of my relatives, no matter how distant - by blood or geography, are deserving of the utmost in love and respect.

Hehe, was just joking. Pleased to meet you cuz

 

[Tutor]

Obviously, I hate staying within budget!

I have my own computer programming business and I've been programming for the past decade. As I said before, my workstation's started to seem slow so one goal is to get more performance but another would be to continue my journey into the world of hardware to extend my skill set.

With programming I guess that the most strenuous tasks are compiling, running multiple virtual machines, and sometimes copying large data files around. ... .

Currently photography and videography are hobbies but I'd like to bring them into the business. ... . Adobe's Creative Cloud - Lightroom, Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects. ... hobby is writing and recording music, mostly with Logic and NI Komplete... . 3D ... Maya and Lightwave... .

... budget [ < ] $6/7k.

I've read in your thread that you have a Mac Pro 5,1. That's an excellent machine for the burgeoning interests that you have expressed. I'm keeping my Mac Pro 4,1 (dual CPU) that I've upgraded to a 5,1+ via a firmware hack and by putting some Xeon 5600's in it. But keeping a fully working system isn't out of the ordinary for me; my completely retiring a fully working system would indicate the onset of serious mental illness.

What you do sounds a lot like what I do and what you want to do more of is very similar to what I'm starting to do. With those similarities in mind and trying to stay within your stated budget, here're my suggestions for an additional system to speed compiling, better accommodate virtual machines, handle copying large data files, and better assist you in running Adobe CC and Maya and/or Lightwave. My main 3d packages are Blender and Cinema 4d, although I have used both Maya and Lightwave for the longest periods of time. I began using Lightwave when it was first released on the Commodore Amiga as part of the Video Toaster and I started using what is now known as Maya when it was called, "Wavefront."

A) For video and CUDA tasks for AfterEffects, Premiere Pro, Maya or Lightwave, I'd get an EVGA 03G-P4-3788-KR GeForce GTX 780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Classified w/ EVGA ACX Cooler Video Card from here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130943 for $700 and one seat of OctaneRender™ for Maya® + Standalone Combo v1.x License or one seat ofOctaneRender™ for LightWave™ + Standalone Combo v1.x License from here: http://render.otoy.com/index.php - for $359 € for Maya [currently $485.51 US Dollars]. OctaneRender should make your renders occur much faster than by relying on your two CPUs. If I could go a little more over budget, I'd go for the EVGA GTX Titan - it costs $300 more than does the GTX 780. I have 8 Titans in one CUDA rig (based on a Tyan Server with an LGA 1366 motherboard with dual 5680s and 8 double wide x16 PCIe slots). With OctaneRender for Cinema 4d, those 8 Titans render before you can get up to get that cup of Java. Importantly, OctaneRender relies solely on all of the CUDA GPUs in your system. Having the slowest CPUs that are compatible with you motherboard would not affect the speed at which Octane renders. Only the CUDA performance of your GPU(s) (their core count, core speed, amount and speed of GPU memory, GPU throughput potential, i.e., bandwidth) and their numerousity, aside from FSB (or DMI) speed, will affect your mileage.

$7,000 - $1,185.51 ($700+485.51) = $5,814.49.

B) To have a fair amount of memory and to cutdown on memory errors, I'd get 64 gigs of Hynix DDR3-1866 16GB/1Gx4 ECC/REG CL13 Hynix Chip Server Memory (From here: http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D3-18R16GH - for $700).

$5,814.49 - $700 = $5,114.49.

C) To have good performance for compiling, virtual machines, Adobe CC (non-CUDA tasks) and other non-CUDA applications, I'd get two of these: Intel Xeon E5-2643 v2 [further described here: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-2643 v2.html ] from here: http://www.provantage.com/intel-cm8063501287403~7ITEP3WR.htm - for $1,585.03 each or $3,170.06 for both of them. They're 6 cores that run at 3.5 GHz base and 3.8 GHz turbo.

$5,114.49 - $3,170.06 = $1,944.43.

D) For the
(i) motherboard I'd get a GIGABYTE GA-7PESH3 Dual LGA2011/ Intel C602/ DDR3/ CrossFireX & 4-Way SLI/ SATA3&SAS2&USB3.0/ A&V&2GbE/ EEB Server Motherboard from here: http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-7PESH3 - for $625;
(ii) case I'd get a SILVERSTONE RAVEN Series RV03B-WA Matte Black with Gray Trimming, Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case from here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...er+Cases+-+ATX+Form)-_-Silverstone-_-11163185 - for $160 (see post # 750, above),
(iii) PSU I'd get a LEPA G Series G1600-MA 1600W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply from here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817494006 - for $330,
(iv) cooling I'd get a couple of Dynatron heatsinks topped off with fans, see, e.g., here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...tegory=574&Manufactory=1522&SpeTabStoreType=1 for under $75 total for both.
(625 + 160 + 330 + 75 = 1190)

$1,944.43 - $1,190 = $754.43

(E) For storage I'd get five Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR120GB 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) from here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226236 for $103 each or $515 total for all five with 3.5" conversion brackets included,
and
a WD AV-GP WD30EURX 3TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive from here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236602 for $140.
(515 + 140 = 655)

$754.43 - $655 = $99.43


(F) That'd leave $99 to add my OSes of choice. Linux is free. I'd purchase, at OEM prices, Microsoft Windows 8 64-bit (Full Version) - OEM for $100 at Newegg [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550 ]. OOPs, I'm close to a dollar over the high end of the budget.
Shipping for this configuration would take me a little more over the $7,000 budget.

In sum, with this configuration I'd have another system with (i) two fast E5-2643 V2s running at base at 3.5 GHz on all 12 cores and that turbo boosts up 3.8 GHz, (ii) 64 gigs of ECC ram, (iii) a GTX 780 for CUDA chores, (iv) OctaneRender for 3d rendering, (v) 600 Gigs of fast SSD storage and (vi) 3 T of HHD storage for fast video playback. Plus, I'd have room, internally, for even more storage. Additionally, I'd have (i) three more double wide x16 full length PCIe slots for more CUDA cards and/or a Xeon Phi or two or (ii) 5 more single wide x8 full length PCIe slots for whatever else I may need - All IN ONE CASE.

N.B. The attached PDF compares one Intel Xeon E5-2643 v2 vs one E5-2697 v2. The areas of advantage for the E5-2697 disappear when you have to E5-2643s pitted against just one E5-2697. In fact, the 3.5 GHz base speed for all 12 cores on two E5-2643s is the same as the turbo speed for the E5-2697 and most of those cores on the E5-2697 cannot attain that speed at the same time. Moreover, the two E5-2643s still have turbo potential to 3.8 GHz.

... . I'm actually quite familiar with da Vinci, he's one of my role models too along with many others. I guess I'm really a brain hack too. If you're willing to pass on the knowledge, I'm more than happy to receive it.

A lot in common do we have. I enjoy passing on knowledge (It is my tribute to my tutors) and you're a most worthy recipient.

... . My quest was really ignited at university, particularly by one of my third year tutors, Brian Whitehead. He really taught me that life wasn't so much about answers but questions and asking the right ones. Ever since then my thirst has been unquenchable. I'm accustomed to early mornings and late nights.

I, also, am both owl and rooster - a remnant of college in the Big Apple. In regards to those, like Brian, who contributed to your development (and only if you're not already doing so), I suggest (1) that you keep in touch with them and make sure that they always know how much they have meant and mean to you. I can no longer do that in the case of most of my tutors because they have now departed their shells and (2) that you pay the contribution forward by helping others become ignited about the things which fan your flame.

Hehe, was just joking. Pleased to meet you cuz

My skin is thicker than most (It's a 7x7x7x7 to infinity thing). WELCOME Cuz! I too am pleased to meet you. That reading recommendation that you've given to me is excellent.

P.S. Just thinking out loud, but only to myself - If I can get you to break the budget by about one dollar (without including shipping/taxes), can I also get you to break it by (a) an additional $1,230 by using 2 E5 - 2687W v2s instead of 2 E5 - 2643s v2s and (b) by an additional $2,100 by filling up those 3 empty double wide x16 PCIe slots with three more GTX 780s? I hope that you're not raising either or both brows. Remember that I'm only thinking to myself. But like the AT&T ad says, "Faster is better." And I'm sort of like Nature when it comes down to emptiness - like empty PCIe slots. Its in my nature to abhor them because they remind me of a vacuum - to vacuum the dust out of them. Maybe this P.S., which is merely self-examination, is why some might call me "The Bad Man." But I don't try to get others to spend their money for no good reason. I'm just trying to grow the economy faster (something that our industrial, governmental and financial institutions could improve on) and help individuals justify getting, from the very beginning, what they truly need and desire, by giving them good reasons to give to their significant others or other interested parties when the charge card bills arrive, have to be paid or bankruptcy proceeding start. You didn't hear me say any of that.

 

[habitullence]

Obviously, I'm always looking for an excuse to spend more money

First, some omissions on my part:

1. My system of choice is Mac OS
2. I'm in the UK, availability and pricing will vary

The system you've described sounds killer! I already have a project name... Landfill. I'll leave that open to interpretation.

I've desperately been playing catchup, trying to learn system architecture overnight didn't happen so bear with me.

Most of what you've described sounds fairly logical. My initial questions would be:

1. Why a Gigabyte motherboard over the Supermicro?
2. Why not Corsair Platinum RAM?
3. How can you use 1866Mhz RAM in a board that supports up to 1600? I have no idea how RAM speed relates to a system :S
4. I've not heard of Mushkin SSDs before, how come you chose these over, say, Samsung 840 Pros?

Yesterday I was reading about how a single CPU i7 build can be better for a lot of these tasks. My understanding is this is because an i7 can be clocked higher and a lot of these apps still only take advantage of a few cores. Can you give me some info on the real-world differences between a single vs dual CPU system and why the dual build would be an advantage?

Like the telephone company ad says, "Faster is better."

In this case, completely agree. Having a tool that blocks your creativity is a tool that should be replaced.

And I'm sort of like nature because its in my nature to abhor empty PCie slots because they remind me of the need to vacuum - them out. Are you raising either or both brows yet? Just thought that I'd ask. That's why some call me "The Bad Man." But I don't try to get others to spend their money for no good reason. I'm just trying to grow the economy faster by giving people good reasons to give their significant others when the charge card bills arrive, to justify getting what is truly desired from the very beginning.

LOL and again that's the way I see it. One eyebrow raised and the other's starting to twitch. I should point out that, while I don't really have a budget for this, I don't really want to be throwing money at something for a low RoI. Also this will be my first real build so I'm on unfamiliar territory, hence twitching. Having said that, "He who dares wins" and I'm always willing to push the envelope, just not too far in this case. Does this change your recommendation?

I guess there are three paths to choose from:

1. Upgrade my existing Mac Pro
2. Build a system similar to the one you've described
3. A single CPU build

Re-iterating criteria:

1. More than enough power to meet my use cases
2. Good return on investment
3. Hackintosh compatible

I think those are really the key points.

In this regard (and only if you're not already doing so), I suggest (1) that you keep in touch with Brian and make sure than he always knows how much he meant and means to you, for I can no longer do that in the case of most of my tutors for they have now departed their shells and

We've lost touch but you know what, I'm going to change that before it's too late.

(2) that you pay it forward by helping others become ignited about learning computer programming.

I've been a bit quiet until now community-wise. It was always hard to find the time and wasn't really worthwhile with what I had to offer. These days I guess I have my own success story and I'm actually an expert at something! I probably have even less time but now I have something worth sharing I want to pass it on. Having the knowledge is great but sharing it with others is profound, people like yourself and Brian have really inspired me to do so.

A lot in common do we have. I enjoy passing on knowledge (It is my tribute to my tutors) and you're a most worthy recipient.

Thank you.

It's a 7x7x7x7 to infinity thing

I couldn't decode this one, what's 7x7 to infinity?

That reading recommendation that you've given me is excellent.

Glad you like it.

P.S. Yes, I love lists and there's always some fresh Java chilling in the freezer.

 

[jasonvp]

Why a Gigabyte motherboard over the Supermicro?

It seems that Gigabyte builds their motherboards with components that "just work" with OS X. And they produce some high quality gear as far as motherboards are concerned (I'd personally avoid their video cards, but that's just my opinion). Newer Gigabyte 2011 boards have plenty of USB 3, SATA 3, dual Intel NICs, etc.

Those and other things may have played into his suggestion.

Can you give me some info on the real-world differences between a single vs dual CPU system and why the dual build would be an advantage?

Follow the sub-thread that Tutor and I were having in this one regarding Adobe's Premiere Pro CC and performance on his monster rig. When time allows, he's planning on running the known good benchmark for Premiere, and he'll ideally be changing things like:

• number of GPUs (Titans)
• number of cores (hyperthreading)

This will give us an idea whether Premiere likes fewer cores with big clock cycles, or more cores. I'm strongly suspecting the former based on my use of the software on a 24-vcore Mac Pro.

• Upgrade my existing Mac Pro

You'll end up with a fairly stout machine from a CPU perspective, able to hit an approximate ~28k 64-bit Geekbench 2 score. That assumes you throw moneys at two 5690 Xeons, which are officially disco'd and very hard to get (and, therefore, very expensive).

The challenge with that route: you're limited in your GPUs unless you want to wire up external power supplies. You're limited in the number of drives you can store internally in the box. You're limited in USB 3 connectivity (find the right PCI-E controller, and make sure it has power!) None of these problems are impossible to overcome, they're just... challenging. And the question is: are they worth it at this point in time?

Personally, I wouldn't throw any more money at the 5,1 platform. It's a workhorse for sure, but it's time is over.

• Build a system similar to the one you've described
• A single CPU build

I'm in the same boat right now. I have a 5,1 similar to what I mentioned above, but am getting ready for the next big thing. My primary use is Premiere Pro (on OS X.. that's the important part), so I'm going to be careful in the system I build. First and foremost, I want to wait for Tutor to get through his benchmarks, so that we can see how core count affects Premiere's efficiency.

With that knowledge in hand, I'll either go a fast Core i7 and up-clock it, then pile in a pair of GTX780s (or Titans). Or, I'll invest in an expensive Gigabyte dual 2011 board, snag a pair of E5 V2s, and build a dual-Xeon, bzillion vcore system. Either way: I'm also going to wait for Mavericks to drop. It'll have support for the E5 V2s in it, where the current 10.8 and 10.9DPs do not.

 

[habitullence]

Hi Jason,

Glad to meet someone that's on a similar journey. Sounds like you're a bit further along so thanks for helping me catchup a bit.

It seems that Gigabyte builds their motherboards with components that "just work" with OS X.

From reading the recommendations on tonymac I thought that might be the case.

Follow the sub-thread that Tutor and I were having in this one regarding Adobe's Premiere Pro CC and performance on his monster rig. When time allows, he's planning on running the known good benchmark for Premiere, and he'll ideally be changing things like:

• number of GPUs (Titans)
• number of cores (hyperthreading)

Have an eye on this. I think the 3D stuff for me is lowest priority right now. Right now I think it would be best for me to focus on compiling code, running VMs, Photoshop, After Effects, and Premiere. Benchmarks for these will be determining factors.

Personally, I wouldn't throw any more money at the 5,1 platform. It's a workhorse for sure, but it's time is over.

As mentioned, I started down this route before and came to the same conclusion. I suspect Tutor is thinking the same.

First and foremost, I want to wait for Tutor to get through his benchmarks, so that we can see how core count affects Premiere's efficiency.

With that knowledge in hand, I'll either go a fast Core i7 and up-clock it, then pile in a pair of GTX780s (or Titans). Or, I'll invest in an expensive Gigabyte dual 2011 board, snag a pair of E5 V2s, and build a dual-Xeon, bzillion vcore system. Either way: I'm also going to wait for Mavericks to drop. It'll have support for the E5 V2s in it, where the current 10.8 and 10.9DPs do not.

Ditto.

I'm less apprehensive knowing that you and Tutor are onboard.

 

[habitullence]

People in US probably have faster computers!

I've priced up the following build (based on current exchange rates, rounded to nearest $):

• EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Classified ACX - $944.33
• Corsair Dominator Platinum 16GB 2400Mhz (x4) - $1.945
• Intel Xeon E5-2643 v2 (x2) - $3,555
• Gigabyte GA-7PESH3 - $772
• Silverstone Raven case - $153.75
• LEPA G Series G1600-MA - $447
• Samsung Pro 840 128GB SSD (x5) - $507
• WD30EURX HDD - $169

Roughly $8,810 in UK!

Difficult to acquire or unavailable in UK:

• Hynix RAM
• Gigabyte GA-7PESH3 mobo
• LEPA PSUs
• Mushkin

(iv) cooling I'd get a couple of Dynatron heatsinks topped off with fans, see, e.g., here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...tegory=574&Manufactory=1522&SpeTabStoreType=1 for under $75 total for both.

Not sure which ones I should be looking at.

(E) For storage I'd get five Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR120GB 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) from here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226236 for $103 each or $515 total for all five with 3.5" conversion brackets included,
and
a WD AV-GP WD30EURX 3TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive from here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822236602 for $140.

Can you explain why five SSDs and one HDD? Not familiar with this configuration.

Also can I overclock this system?

 

[Tutor]

First, some omissions on my part:

1. My system of choice is Mac OS
2. I'm in the UK, availability and pricing will vary

... .
Most of what you've described sounds fairly logical. My initial questions would be:

1. Why a Gigabyte motherboard over the Supermicro?

1. 
   
   Traditionally, Gigabyte motherboards have been the easiest to get to run your favorite OS. As to this particular motherboard, I recommend it because of its capability to support up to 4 double wide cards, each in an x16 PCIe slot. That's the current fastest slot speed. Nvidia CUDA GPUs and Intel Xeon Phi cards are double wide. Such cards have compute capabilities dwarfing today's fastest CPUs.
   
   

   [*]Why not Corsair Platinum RAM?

   
   
   I love Corsair ram. I have more self-built systems built on Gigabyte motherboards and using Corsair ram than any others. However, when I 'm doing programming related functions, I prefer the security of ECC ram - "Error-correcting code memory (ECC memory) is a type of computer data storage that can detect and correct the most common kinds of internal data corruption." [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory ] - rather than regular desktop ram. Ram could be likened to your short term memory; whereas your SSDs and HDDs to your long term memory. An error that gets left unchecked in your short term memory can be written to durable storage like your long term memory and keep rearing its mean face over and over again. In short, is the Corsair Platinum ram that you have in mind ECC ram? If it is, then go with it.
   
   

   [*]How can you use 1866Mhz RAM in a board that supports up to 1600?

   
   If it doesn't already do so with a bios upgrade, it soon will because 1866Mhz ram is the new standard for V2 Xeons. That's even the speed of the ram projected to be used in the 2013 Mac Pro [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro ].
   
   
   

   I have no idea how RAM speed relates to a system :S

   
   Keep that short term memory analogy alive and take one brief look at this series of symbols, then look away and repeat the series: '6,2Ab9d$@+O>.?\~. The faster your ram the faster things get put in and taken out of that short term memory. It makes your computer work faster and you'll feel it, but maybe by just a little over 1600Mhz ram.
   

   [*]I've not heard of Mushkin SSDs before, how come you chose these over, say, Samsung 840 Pros?

   I haven't bought any SSDs in quite a while. I just go for the best specs at the best price so long as i'm not aware of a bevy of unsatisfied customers. Here, I'm not chosing Mushkin over Samsung. I've just recently heard and read good things about Mushkin, more so than I've heard about the Samsung. Thus, get the one which seems best for your system and wallet.
   
   

   Yesterday I was reading about how a single CPU i7 build can be better for a lot of these tasks. My understanding is this is because an i7 can be clocked higher and a lot of these apps still only take advantage of a few cores.

   
   Currently 100% true, but over time more and more content creation apps will tend to re-written to take better advantage of more cores.
   
   

   Can you give me some info on the real-world differences between a single vs dual CPU system and why the dual build would be an advantage?

   
   Dual CPU systems can have more cores and thus can usually handle 3d tasks faster and can run more applications simultaneously without your having the perception that things are starting to slow down as soon. If you run only a couple of low resource applications at any one time and only infrequently run resource hogs like 3d and video apps can be, then an i7 system would cost you only about half as much and run satisfactory.
   
   Moreover, i7s and their motherboards don't take advantage of ECC memory. Also, note that the Mac Pros that are sold by Apple are sold to you with ECC memory and Xeon processors. That's what you've been used to experiencing.
   
   

   I should point out that, while I don't really have a budget for this, I don't really want to be throwing money at something for a low RoI. Also this will be my first real build so I'm on unfamiliar territory, hence twitching. Having said that, "He who dares wins" and I'm always willing to push the envelope, just not too far in this case. Does this change your recommendation?

   
   No, not as to what your first self-build should be unless you tell me that the content creation use will be de-minimus and that you do not care about having ECC ram, but it does resurrect in me the question in my head when I read your thread. My question is - Why not just buy a pair of more power Xeons for your Mac. I'd recommend two X5680s for about $890 (U.S.) each from somewhere like here: http://www.eoptionsonline.com/CSear...=AND&DisplayMode=List&SearchPartNumbersOnly=0 and install them yourself. Note that production of these chips is set to end this year. I'll help with the installation. As far as I know, I was the first person to swap successfully the CPUs in a Mac Pro 2009. I did this in late spring of 2009 and have since helped many others with 2009 and 2010 Mac Pros to do so and have done so for my 2007 Mac Pros. I've swapped and overclocked processors in Apple, Atari and Amiga computers since about 1985, and did so with Dells from about 2003 to 2008 and built numerous systems from 2010 forward. I think I've got you covered.
   
   That processor swap would give you a significant increase in performance:
   
   2.4 GHz x 4 cores x 2 CPUs = 19.2 (This is where you are now)
   3.3 GHz x 6 cores x 2 CPUs = 39.6 (This is where you would be)
   39.6 / 19.2 = 2.0625 (This is the difference - over 2 times more processing capability for under $2K) - I'd rate that high on ROI)
   Then get an FSP PSU booster and a GTX Titan and buy a seat of OctaneRender.
   That'll give you 2x CPU performance for under $2K and a GPU which should give you the rendering capability in Maya about equal to 10 pairs of E5-2687Ws v1 for under an additional $1,500. That's a total outlay of under $3,500. You'd have not one Hackintosh problem and nothing new to get used to, except for learning to use OctaneRender. You'd probably also want to get your ram up to about 64 gigs. Then, if you needed more processing power consider the i7 route, but if you keep the Mac running, don't give up what it can do in your workflow.
   
   

   I guess there are three paths to choose from:
   
   

   1. Upgrade my existing Mac Pro
   2. Build a system similar to the one you've described
   3. A single CPU build

   
   Re-iterating criteria:
   
   

   1. More than enough power to meet my use cases
   2. Good return on investment
   3. Hackintosh compatible

   I think those are really the key points.

   
   See earlier suggestion. I'd upgrade my Mac Pro first.
   
   

   We've lost touch but you know what, I'm going to change that before it's too late.

   
   Of all of the things that we have discussed involving change, this is one of the most important ones - showing appreciation and love.
   
   

   I've been a bit quiet until now community-wise. It was always hard to find the time and wasn't really worthwhile with what I had to offer. These days I guess I have my own success story and I'm actually an expert at something! I probably have even less time but now I have something worth sharing I want to pass it on. Having the knowledge is great but sharing it with others is profound, people like yourself and Brian have really inspired me to do so.

   I resided in Birmingham, Alabama as a young child during Birmingham's worst years (the early to mid 1960s when the Civil Rights battles took prominence) and me (age 12) and my younger (age 8) found my father dead. He died here in 1966 because some distant cousins with medical degrees wouldn't recognize him and they thus failed to give him proper medical treatment after he was crushed by a barrel while doing his job. Change begins with individual acts of love and kindness. Doing so when it is least comfortable to you only strengthens you and sweetens your prize. My younger brother and I truly needed tutors and mentors and fully appreciate those men and women who carved out time from their busy schedules to help us get our lives as children back on track.
   
   

   I couldn't decode this one, what's 7x7 to infinity?

   How many times a day must I not take offense, but rather show love and forgiveness? There is no limit.
   
   
   

   P.S. Yes, I love lists and there's always some fresh Java chilling in the freezer.

   
   My older brother served in the US military in England during the early 1960's before he was sent to Southeast Asia and has told me much about how the people in England made him feel welcomed to be there. If I ever have the opportunity to visit there, I hope that we can meet. I'd love to try Java your way.

 

[habitullence]

The the thing I like about upgrading my existing system is it's probably going to be more reliable, like you say. The thing I'm not so sure about is investing in an older system.

My question is - Why not just buy a pair of more power Xeons for your Mac. I'd recommend two X5680s for about $890 (U.S.) each

If the price here was equivalent, I'd tend to agree but the cheapest I could find was in excess of $2,000... each!!

Re. new build..

However, when I 'm doing programming related functions, I prefer the security of ECC ram - "Error-correcting code memory (ECC memory) is a type of computer data storage that can detect and correct the most common kinds of internal data corruption."

This would be a must have.

Currently 100% true, but over time more and more content creation apps will tend to re-written to take better advantage of more cores.

Dual CPU systems can have more cores and thus can usually handle 3d tasks faster and can run more applications simultaneously without your having the perception that things are starting to slow down as soon.

Long term, dual CPUs would a better investment then, I do run a lot of apps simultaneously, and must have ECC so duals it is.

Soooo, given the cost of upgrading my existing Mac, would you say that option's null and void?

I resided in Birmingham, Alabama as a young child during Birmingham's worst years (the early to mid 1960s when the Civil Rights battles took prominence) and me (age 12) and my younger (age 8) found my father dead. He died here in 1966 because some distant cousins with medical degrees wouldn't recognize him and they thus failed to give him proper medical treatment after he was crushed by a barrel while doing his job. Change begins with individual acts of love and kindness. Doing so when it is least comfortable to you only strengthens you and sweetens your prize. My younger brother and I truly needed tutors and mentors and fully appreciate those men and women who carved out time from their busy schedules to help us get our lives as children back on track.

So sorry to hear this and yet very happy that you've taken such a tragic experience and used it to do good. I don't know what happens when we die but if he can see you now, I'm sure he's proud.

How many times day must I not take offense, but rather show love and forgiveness. There is no limit.

Again, inspiring.

If I ever have the opportunity to visit there, I hope that we can meet. I'd love to try Java your way.

You're welcome anytime.

 

[habitullence]

RAM where art thou?

Can't find 16GB 1866 registered ECC DIMMs anywhere in UK.

 

[Tutor]

The the thing I like about upgrading my existing system is it's probably going to be more reliable, like you say. The thing I'm not so sure about is investing in an older system. If the price here was equivalent, I'd tend to agree but the cheapest I could find was in excess of $2,000... each!!

Re. new build..
This [ECC] would be a must have. Long term, dual CPUs would a better investment then, I do run a lot of apps simultaneously, and must have ECC so duals it is. Soooo, given the cost of upgrading my existing Mac, would you say that option's null and void?

I'd say that the Mac Pro upgrade option is null and void. Therefore, I still recommend the dual Xeon E5-2643 route.

----------

Can't find 16GB 1866 registered ECC DIMMs anywhere in UK.

It appears that you must now wait for the ram to become available. I was able to find only one 1866 registered ECC DIMM offering here.

 

[habitullence]

I'd say that the Mac Pro upgrade option is null and void. Therefore, I still recommend the dual Xeon E5-2643 route

Taking deep breath, massaging eyebrows.. OK, so with the information I have, this could be 'Landfill':

• EVGA GeForce GTX Titan SC
• 16GB ECC 1866Mhz x4
• Intel Xenon E5-2643 v2 x2
• Gigabyte GA-7PESH3
• Silverstone Raven
• LEPA G1600-MA
• Samsung 840Pro 128GB x5
• WD30EURX

From the document you attached previously, I think the 2643s are better compromised for me over 2697s. What cooling would I need with this? I checked the link before but it was a list, rather than one item.

Also I don't understand the SSD/HDD setup. How come five SSDs and one HDD? 256s benchmark better than 128s but I'm guessing five 128s being be better than two 256s has something to do with the RAID setup you have in mind.

It appears that you must now wait for the ram to become available. I was able to find only one 1866 registered ECC DIMM offering here.

Perfect! Will give a chance to learn more, see what happens at Apple, and think about dual Titans - wouldn't want them to feel outnumbered by CPUs.

 

[Tutor]

My Apologies For Not Giving You Better Information

Taking deep breath, massaging eyebrows.. OK, so with the information I have, this could be 'Landfill':

• EVGA GeForce GTX Titan SC
• 16GB ECC 1866Mhz x4
• Intel Xenon E5-2643 v2 x2
• Gigabyte GA-7PESH3
• Silverstone Raven
• LEPA G1600-MA
• Samsung 840Pro 128GB x5
• WD30EURX

From the document you attached previously, I think the 2643s are better compromised for me over 2697s. What cooling would I need with this? I checked the link before but it was a list, rather than one item.

I. How to Select An Air Cooler For The GA-7PESH3


First, I apologize for not giving you this information earlier.

I currently cannot be 100% sure about a fit issue. I have some 2011 motherboards that use square sockets and I have a couple that use, what are commonly referred to as, "narrow sockets." Each socket type requires a certain fan base. The Gigabyte GA-7PESH3 manual does not say what variety of socket it uses. My best guess is that it uses the square socket. So unless I learn otherwise, I keep assuming that the GA-7PESH3 uses the square socket.

This is a cooler that I believe will fit and that will provide a good level of cooling: Dynatron R17 92mm 2 Ball Intel Sandy Bridge Romley-EP/EX Processors up to TDP 160 Watts Overclocking - It is sold by http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114120 and http://www.widenelectronics.co.uk . There are, however, many other LGA 2011 coolers that may fit and provide as good as, if not better, cooling. Directron, which is based in Texas, has a much broader selection (than does Newegg) of coolers for 2011 CPUs. See, e.g., http://www.directron.com/lga2011cooler.html . Directron even sells that same, above referenced, cooler that Newegg carries, for $10 less than Newegg. I generally buy all of my air coolers from Direction because of lower prices.

Please note that some of the LGA 2011 coolers carried by Directron are advertised as suitable for overclocking, some have a fan or two and/or some have high advertised TPDs such as 150 Watts or above. Generally, the coolers that maintain the coolest CPU environment have all three characteristics. But, as discussed below, there are other variables that you should consider.

Even though you cannot overclock on the GA-7PESH3 and the E5-2643s v2 have a TDP of 130 Watts ( http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-2643 v2.html ), there are very good reasons to make your selection based on the highest TDP, the existence (better) and number of fans (two is better at cooling than one), and the advertised intended audience (fans used to cool overclocked CPUs are generally better at cooling). First and foremost, the cooler your CPU the longer it will generally last. Secondly, a cooler CPU will run faster for longer intervals of time. By that I mean that the CPU will not try to enter throttling mode. CPUs do this by stepping down their speed when they get too hot (As an aside, I believe that this is why Apple's 32-bit Geekbench 2 test for a system housing an E5-2697, was so disappointing to those who have much experience with interpreting Geekbench testing performance.). Moreover and equally as important, cooler CPUs tend to enter turbo boost mode earlier, longer and more frequently, i.e., core coolness is a factor that determines whether turbo boost occurs, and the turbo boost stage/level attained. Because the turbo boost phenomenon is occurring so quickly, maintaining core coolness at all times is imperative. That means that you can get a level of performance similar to that which occurs when you mildly tweak the CPU(s) without actually having tweaked it. You cannot directly tweak the CPU's clock on the GA-7PESH3, but you can establish a thermal environment where your CPUs run their fastest. Simply, you do that by keeping the CPU(s) (and thus their cores) cool all of the time. You want to select the cooler based on it having a fan or two (two being better for cooling than one) moving cool air across the fins in the heat sink, in the direction that the case design intends for air to exit the case. Choosing high TDP fans used by clock tweaking fans helps to ensure that the CPU's cores run their fastest.

But the dirty, not so little secret, is that you have to balance the fan's cooling ability against its perceived loudness. In a two CPU environment, finding the sweetspot in this balancing act becomes even more difficult. That involves a balance that is at many points extremely individualistic because variables such as, but not limited to, individual physical differences, individual tastes, use and user patterns, system placement, etc. come into play. In my 25 plus years of experience as a clock tweaker, I have learned the hard way that final cooler selection can be the most confounding decision to make. Making a recommendation to someone else is even more confounding, particularly if the both of you are not physically close. That's why I tend to shy away from it unless I'm working with someone else who is nearby. This is why you got a list originally and why you're getting another one, which hopefully saves you more money.

The overall reason that I recommend the listed Silverstone case is that it appears to do more to aid the type of thermal environment that I believe will allow CPU (and GPU) performance to flourish. By forcing the motherboard to be installed (i.e, rotated 90 degrees) so that the external connection points for PCIe cards are the top of the case, this helps force the hot air from the GPU (and as you add more GPUs in one case this feature becomes even more important) in the direction that nature/our planet intends that it go - up. If the room is adequately ventilated/air conditioned that hotter air never re-enters the system. Hotter air may tend to re-enter the case if the PCIe cards are installed traditionally where the hot air can re-enter the case at a point - above the particular GPU, but below the CPU(s), only to reheat the upper area of the case, thereby raising the temperature of one of the components, namely the CPU, that we want to stay cool. Additionally, most GPUs take in cooler air from the end opposite the external connection point and in the case that I recommend cooler air enter the GPU towards the bottom of the case because of the novel orientation of the motherboard. To top that off, the case has two large fans at the bottom of the case that draw in cooler air from the lowest point of the case, i.e., below its base - raised just a few inches off the floor.

Also I don't understand the SSD/HDD setup. How come five SSDs and one HDD? 256s benchmark better than 128s but I'm guessing five 128s being be better than two 256s has something to do with the RAID setup you have in mind.

Although five lower capacity SSDs usually have a speed advantage over two larger capacity SSDs otherwise similarly spec'd that was not my point.

II. I May Have Over Ran My Headlights

Regarding storage, originally I was just giving to you an example of a possible storage selection that falls within your stated budget. Then I gave to you an example of a configuration supporting my use of one of my many systems. When I bought those SSD's - 256 vs. 128 was not matter of choice. Despite the fact that there are great similarities in the fields for which we use computer technology and with some of the software tools that we use, after giving your question more thought it's my impression that there are too many variables for me to say what particular storage pieces you should deploy and how you should deploy them. I believe that you are much more capable than am I to select the appropriate media storage budget, type(s), brand(s), size(s), number and aggregation/interrelations than am I. Anymore than giving you examples of what you could purchase within that budget would very likely lead to me, as we say in the Southern states, over running my headlights - that translates to stepping into darkness. I don't know enough about your situation to give you meaningful information about your storage allocation specifics. I don't know things such as, but not limited to, how many systems you have, whether and how they are allocated (such as by job, task, or project function), how many system users you have and their functions, details about how you prefer to go about accomplishing tasks, etc. For example, regarding the video system that I described to you in one of my earlier posts, other than that system's use as mainly a video editor (and at times a render slave), I don't use it to do any of the other things that I know that we do in common. Thus, if you have been using your Mac Pro to do basically everything, then it would not be at all surprising if my explanation of the storage setup of that Windows system was difficult for you to grasp. It's been a very long time since I used one system for everything - a very long time indeed - way back in the mid 1980's. Because I keep my systems for so very long and many times carve out a very narrow role for each of the older ones consistent with what I perceive to be its remaining strength(s), I have many systems dedicated to use just one application and a growing few just dedicated to one function in an application that might otherwise now be generally superseded, but that function may no longer be otherwise accomplishable. The gist is that you should not try to duplicate that resource selection and configuration in a new, different setting.

Perfect! Will give a chance to learn more, see what happens at Apple, and think about dual Titans - wouldn't want them to feel outnumbered by CPUs.

III. Maximizing 3d Rendering Performance With Multiple GTX GPUs

For CUDA rendering in Octane, I've found that the rendering speed increases perfectly linear with my addition/selection of additional cards, at least in an eight card environment, and that applies to my GTX 295, GTX 480, GTX 580, GTX 680 and GTX Titan rigs. However, the math is a bit tricky until you really wrap your mind around it. For example, if one Titan renders a scene in one minute, then two will render it in 30 seconds. It takes four to cut the time to 15 seconds. It takes all eight of mine to cut the time to 7.5 seconds. I extrapolate: that it would take 16 to cut the time to 3.75 seconds; that it would take 32 to cut the time to 1.875 seconds, 64 to cut the time to 0.9375 seconds, 128 to cut the time to 0.46875 seconds, 256 to cut the time to 0.234375 seconds, a whopping 512 to cut the time to 0.1171875 seconds. At $1,000 a pop, that comes to $512,000 to achieve that 0.1171875 second figure and entering the millions of dollars to get the last time interval cut in half. But when you consider the number of computers needed to render some of the past blockbuster animated films, the total time the rendering took, the then cost of those computers and the then speed of those computers; the fact that a tweaked Titan in Windows is faster than a Tesla K20X; and that according to Nvidia a single Tesla K20X has 10 times the compute potential of a E5-2687W v1, then you really began to perceive the immense potential and the corresponding value of GPU computing with GTX Titans. That's why a computer with at least 4 double wide x16 PCIe slots is so valuable to anyone who wants to make money doing 3d work. But there's an additional reason why one in that field would desire even more slots perceived to be in one system. That reason is that OctaneRender is priced per system, not per GPU. Thus, a seat of OctaneRender for an 16 GPU CUDA rig costs no more than a seat of OctaneRender for 1 GPU CUDA rig.

 

[fiatlux]

If the price here was equivalent, I'd tend to agree but the cheapest I could find was in excess of $2,000... each!!

If you're willing to buy used on eBay, you can get them for about half as much (there are X5680s selling in UK, and you can make a lower offer on at least two of them).

An alternative is buying a used PC workstation with the CPUs you want, swap the CPUs and resell the workstation to recover some of your cost. More hassle perhaps but probably the cheapest upgrade option.

I did have a look at building a hackintosh workstation in the past but I gave up as support seemed to be more limited for 2011 sockets MB (no power management according to tonymacx86) and information on dual-CPU configs almost non-existant.

I don't have your requirements or budget but I'd upgrade you MP first. You could even start with just a GPU upgrade and fix your slow storage issue.

 

[jasonvp]

I. How to Select An Air Cooler For The GA-7PESH3

I'm starting to play around with water cooling in my gaming rig. It's an ASUS 2011 board with a "little" 3820, which I've overclocked to 4.5GHz. Along with the up-clocked CPU, I have 2 SuperClocked EVGA Titans in the rig.

Those babies move some air. Seriously. While playing Battlefield 3 across 3 1920x1200 LCD panels (so, essentially: 5760x1200), the impeller fans on those two cards make enough noise such that my office sounds like a data center. Fortunately, I have headphones on when I'm gaming. But the sound is deafening if I don't have them on.

I installed a closed-loop (ie, pre-filled) copper radiator/copper heat block on my CPU a few weeks ago. It came with 2 120mm fans, but my case and motherboard made it impossible for me to fit both. So I have a single 120mm fan blowing through a 2x120mm-sized radiator. It keeps the CPU's temps under 60ºC easily, even under full load.

Next: the Titans. I'm slowly assembling the pieces to begin the water-cooling adventure with them. I already have copper water blocks and an external copper radiator/reservoir/pump combo unit purchased. Once I have the right tubing and fittings, I'll get to work.

Why am I mentioning all of this? I think some or all of it could theoretically apply to the Hack. I know people generally shy away from water-cooling server chips because "they don't need it!" But: they're socket 2011, and there's no reason why a water block won't fit. Certainly the video card(s) can use better cooling, as well as something that will keep your system a lot quieter.

Aside from the obvious 2 downsides of water cooling (cost and potential hazard), the not-so-obvious one is: it sort-of locks your system in as configured. It becomes... challenging... to swap pieces and parts out once they're installed with water blocks all connected together. It's not impossible to do, just challenging. So that has to be kept in mind.