Am I the only one that sees the frame skipping?

[jajohns8]

I just wanted to chime in and say that your response/reasoning is very intelligent and well thought out. I've enjoyed all your replies to someone who is stubborn and not willing to admit that the problem may be limited and not as widespread as he wants everyone to believe.

Maybe if you stopped responding to him, he'll stop

Yeah, tell that to 9to5mac, who have now picked up the issue as well.

They have even pointed to another thread that I never knew about.

So, looks like it is even MORE widespread than I thought.

Last I checked the official Apple thread was 8 pages and counting.

 

[jajohns8]

Like I said before, and I won't repeat it again. Just because YOU or someone else has a problem, doesn't mean its a problem for everyone. Simple as that. I've tried to reproduce this "problem" and I can't. Even using a 14 gigabyte rip of Avatar I can't reproduce the problem.

Sorry, I don't believe your ATV2 is immune. Use a varied set of HD test material.

 

[jajohns8]

I don't understand why there is so much bickering and posturing on here. I just find it odd and nerdy-weird. Some people see the problem, others don't see it. What is the motivation to try to prove someone wrong? Forums should be a way to HELP each other solve a problem. I think we've successfully narrowed it down to being specific to the new ATV.

Sure, there are probably more computer idiots out there than experts. Same true for people who are videophiles - very few and most don't care as much about quality. So if you don't see it or if you don't care why would you waste time cock-fighting in a thread about a problem that some of us know is real? I don't get it.

In tech support we used to ask a question... what changed? What changed between the scenario when something worked and when it stopped working?.. or in this case.. what changed between us not seeing the problem and seeing the problem?

Same TV, same complete home video set up.. ATV1 - don't see it.. pull it out and plug in the ATV2 into the same hdmi connector - play the same apple purchased movie - do see it. Whatever the cause.. and none of us on here wrote the code or designed the hardware so any theories offered here are pure speculation.. whatever the actual cause.. it's the difference between ATV1 and ATV2.

9to5 mac seems to have picked up on the story.. I trust that apple knows about it and will quietly fix it in an update in november.

***** I'M MOVING ALL FUTURE COMMENTS TO THE OTHER THREAD - MODERATOR PLEASE CLOSE THIS ONE ******

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1025834/

I agree with you on this. I just want to watch all of my HD material, stutter free.

I want to solve the problem.

I think this is where this thread started.

Unfortunately, others started jumping in and making claims such as "oh, it's just YOUR system."

After that it has turned into post/response cycle that is really just a distraction form the issue.

I conducted some tests over the weekend and will post over in the other thread my findings.

 

[rz22g]

I agree with you on this. I just want to watch all of my HD material, stutter free.

I want to solve the problem.

I think this is where this thread started.

Unfortunately, others started jumping in and making claims such as "oh, it's just YOUR system."

After that it has turned into post/response cycle that is really just a distraction form the issue.

I conducted some tests over the weekend and will post over in the other thread my findings.

No your not the only one and you will have those who don't even see the issue even though it is there. I saw it on 3 different units that the owners did not see it. Of course after pointing it out they did and now want a fix.

I have already tested 5 units and it seems to be a buffer issue. In every one of my tests the jitter started right after the HD TV Shows buffered completely. Rebooting the system after that fixed the issue. The TV Shows remained fully buffered after reboot and playback was 100% jitter free. Full length movies will not remain completely in buffer after rebooting but the jitter goes away until the buffer completes again.

 

[rz22g]

I would also like to add that this happens on all local HD content that is streamed from my iTunes library. For example I own "how to train your dragon" on bluray and I ripped and converted for ATV. This plays without flaw until buffer is complete.

 

[jajohns8]

I would also like to add that this happens on all local HD content that is streamed from my iTunes library. For example I own "how to train your dragon" on bluray and I ripped and converted for ATV. This plays without flaw until buffer is complete.

Check out my test cases in blackmangotree's other thread. (will be posting shortly)

 

[jajohns8]

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. And you're probably right. I guess I was just enjoying being the voice of reason. Not that he is really hearing this, but you never know. Making an argument can be fun. Maybe I should have been a lawyer.

The Onion wrote a great article about the Iphone that was written just for you.

Have you seen it?

If not, google 'The onion iphone."

Seriously, it's just for people like you.

 

[chrono1081]

I want to solve the problem.

Well to do so the first step is realize is not on everyones system, but you can't seem to do that as stated in your above posts. For the problem NOT existing on everyones system it would suggest possible bad batches, a network issue, etc. Perhaps the ATV2 in combination with certain routers is the issue. For me, I have an Atv2, an Apple Airport Extreme, and everything is going over wireless N. No studdering, nothing. My Dad has the same setup as does two of my friends. The third one has a Linksys wireless N however his ATV2 is connected not wirelessly, but through a wire and so is his computer that has all of his iTunes stuff.

None of us have cordless phones in the house either or anything else that may interfere with wireless. Everyone is cell phone only.

 

[jajohns8]

Well to do so the first step is realize is not on everyones system, but you can't seem to do that as stated in your above posts. For the problem NOT existing on everyones system it would suggest possible bad batches, a network issue, etc. Perhaps the ATV2 in combination with certain routers is the issue. For me, I have an Atv2, an Apple Airport Extreme, and everything is going over wireless N. No studdering, nothing. My Dad has the same setup as does two of my friends. The third one has a Linksys wireless N however his ATV2 is connected not wirelessly, but through a wire and so is his computer that has all of his iTunes stuff.

None of us have cordless phones in the house either or anything else that may interfere with wireless. Everyone is cell phone only.

Oh, I most certainly do believe that you aren't having the problem...with the material you are watching.

 

[benoitgphoto]

Well to do so the first step is realize is not on everyones system, but you can't seem to do that as stated in your above posts. For the problem NOT existing on everyones system it would suggest possible bad batches, a network issue, etc. Perhaps the ATV2 in combination with certain routers is the issue. For me, I have an Atv2, an Apple Airport Extreme, and everything is going over wireless N. No studdering, nothing. My Dad has the same setup as does two of my friends. The third one has a Linksys wireless N however his ATV2 is connected not wirelessly, but through a wire and so is his computer that has all of his iTunes stuff.

None of us have cordless phones in the house either or anything else that may interfere with wireless. Everyone is cell phone only.

Well...I think you still don't understand the issue.

First, the issue happens when the buffer is full. That eliminates your network issue hypothesis and interference from cordless phones. BTW, I also have the latest AEBS on 5 GHz N network and it streams really fast. Also, it doesn't happen on Netflix streaming.

As for bad batches, it's possible but as any computer, if memory, CPU or GPU is defective, I would rather see the Apple TV not boot, crashes on very basic operations, heavy graphics artifacts, etc. I don't think it would make HD video only drop frames once in a while. I might be wrong though...

I honestly think you have the issue but you haven't seen it yet. Let's talk again about it in a few weeks from now when Apple release the update and it will say in the description : "Correct a minor video stuttering issue on some HD streaming"

 

[lilo777]

Could it be that A4 is simply not powerful enough and has to skip some frames as a result? There is a reason why ATV2 does not support 1080p. They could have implemented it too by skipping every second frame

 

[DJinTX]

The Onion wrote a great article about the Iphone that was written just for you.

Have you seen it?

If not, google 'The onion iphone."

Seriously, it's just for people like you.

People like me? What kind of person am I? Trying to lump me in with some sort of group is pretty offensive. You know nothing about me. The only things you can surmise about me from this thread is that I am honest, fair, logical, and really only seeking the truth.

I have never said that you are wrong, I only said that you have not collected enough data to come to any worthwhile conclusions of your own, yet you want to turn your personal experiences into a widespread epidemic. If 9to5mac and other outlets pick this up and do their usual investigating and testing, then that's great. That is actual data collection that I can trust and point to as helpful. Theirs won't be based on 3 units.

It seems to me that you are not interested in any opinion that differs from your own, and when I was not jumping on your bandwagon you wanted to immediately label me as a blinded apple fan boy.

I have said from the start that you could turn out to be absolutely right. On the other hand, you could be wrong about it affecting every unit. My point from the beginning is and was that you are jumping to conclusions based on very little testing. Hopefully 9to5mac and gizmodo and some of the others will actually do some real testing and figure it out scientifically.

That's all really.

 

[jajohns8]

Could it be that A4 is simply not powerful enough and has to skip some frames as a result? There is a reason why ATV2 does not support 1080p. They could have implemented it too by skipping every second frame

LOL.

I do think the device is capable of handling at least 720P, as the processor, etc. is powerful enough. In fact, until the buffer fills, the playback is quite nice. Even 'High Profile' (preset) Handbrake encodes look great...up until the buffer fills.

One theory is that a process is running somewhere that is causing the shudder.

It happens at irregular intervals. You can watch the same video 10 times and it will stutter in different places. (It's very subtle.)

I tried an episode of the Tudors (HD) tonight (from ITunes) and it stuttered too.

 

[jajohns8]

People like me? What kind of person am I? Trying to lump me in with some sort of group is pretty offensive. You know nothing about me. The only things you can surmise about me from this thread is that I am honest, fair, logical, and really only seeking the truth.

I have never said that you are wrong, I only said that you have not collected enough data to come to any worthwhile conclusions of your own, yet you want to turn your personal experiences into a widespread epidemic. If 9to5mac and other outlets pick this up and do their usual investigating and testing, then that's great. That is actual data collection that I can trust and point to as helpful. Theirs won't be based on 3 units.

It seems to me that you are not interested in any opinion that differs from your own, and when I was not jumping on your bandwagon you wanted to immediately label me as a blinded apple fan boy.

I have said from the start that you could turn out to be absolutely right. On the other hand, you could be wrong about it affecting every unit. My point from the beginning is and was that you are jumping to conclusions based on very little testing. Hopefully 9to5mac and gizmodo and some of the others will actually do some real testing and figure it out scientifically.

That's all really.

Look, you responded to me first on page 2, saying "I'm just glad I don't have the problem."

All I have done is to say that I think you 'not having the problem' is suspect.

I have given my reasons why I think this is so. It's not meant as a slant against you personally.

I think it's a matter of having the same test conditions.

If you can't stand a little humor being directed at Apple Fan Boys courtesy of The Onion, then sorry I hurt your feelings.

But, hey, that reputation was earned.
It was earned by people who think apple can do no wrong.

If you don't want me to address you directly, then don't quote me and reply to my posts, as you did on page 2 (and ever since.)

 

[doboy]

LOL.

I do think the device is capable of handling at least 720P, as the processor, etc. is powerful enough. In fact, until the buffer fills, the playback is quite nice. Even 'High Profile' (preset) Handbrake encodes look great...up until the buffer fills.

One theory is that a process is running somewhere that is causing the shudder.

It happens at irregular intervals. You can watch the same video 10 times and it will stutter in different places. (It's very subtle.)

I tried an episode of the Tudors (HD) tonight (from ITunes) and it stuttered too.

I think what's important is that if you want the "problem" fixed, then it's better to convince Apple and not us. Personally I wouldn't spend my precious time testing various video files just to prove that there is a stutter on my Apple unit. To each his own.

 

[jajohns8]

I think what's important is that if you want the "problem" fixed, then it's better to convince Apple and not us. Personally I wouldn't spend my precious time testing various video files just to prove that there is a stutter on my Apple unit. To each his own.

Yep, I have a case open with Apple.
(And we dig The Tudors.)

 

[DJinTX]

Look, you responded to me first on page 2, saying "I'm just glad I don't have the problem."

All I have done is to say that I think you 'not having the problem' is suspect.

I have given my reasons why I think this is so. It's not meant as a slant against you personally.

I think it's a matter of having the same test conditions.

If you can't stand a little humor being directed at Apple Fan Boys courtesy of The Onion, then sorry I hurt your feelings.

But, hey, that reputation was earned.
It was earned by people who think apple can do no wrong.

If you don't want me to address you directly, then don't quote me and reply to my posts, as you did on page 2 (and ever since.)

You see me not having this problem as suspect? Suspect of what? Am I part of some big Apple conspiracy to deny there is a problem? If this is what you think, then you have some serious paranoia issues my friend.

And, if I am in fact here to do damage control and spin the facts on behalf of Apple's reputation, then they should fire me. I mean I never told you that you were wrong, or lying, or trying to smear Apple's good name. What did I do? I just called you out on your lack of scientific method. Plain and simple.

As for your other claims, I have no problem with you addressing me directly, or for attempts at humor. I like the onion, as they tend to be pretty funny. Of course I saw no attempt at humor on your part. Only attempts to discredit those who don't stroke your ego and back up everything you say.

The interesting part is that I don't really disagree with you. I am just trying to help you understand that until definitive testing is done, no one knows what is truly going on here. You may turn out to be right or wrong, but we won't know that for awhile.

Oh, and in regard to your implication that I think Apple can do no wrong, that is definitely an attempt at humor. I have had plenty of problems with their products over the years. I just don't seem to have this particular issue, which seems to be very hard for you to accept. But that is your baggage, not mine.

All in all, I hope you get the fix that you need. Maybe going forward you could just try to be slightly open-minded to the opinions of others.

 

[chrono1081]

All I have done is to say that I think you 'not having the problem' is suspect.

You are the one calling everyone who doesn't have this issue a liar. You sit there and make claims to other posters without any problems that "They just don't see it" or "They don't have HD content to test with". No, some don't have problems plain and simple and you can't accept that. All you do is bash other posters.

FYI I have plenty of HD content to test with. I have been using my Apple TV plenty since they were released and began arriving at houses as have the other people listed in my previous posts. NONE of us have problems so its either your box, encodes, or network. I do a lot of digital content creation for a living and as a student. I would notice dropped frames in a heartbeat.

Now you can either finger point and call everyone who doesn't have a problem a liar or you can ask the people who don't have problems to post their network setups and try and get to the bottom of things. For all we know people with the problems issue may be the source computer since people with the problem don't drop anything in netflix.

 

[jajohns8]

You see me not having this problem as suspect? Suspect of what? Am I part of some big Apple conspiracy to deny there is a problem? If this is what you think, then you have some serious paranoia issues my friend.

And, if I am in fact here to do damage control and spin the facts on behalf of Apple's reputation, then they should fire me. I mean I never told you that you were wrong, or lying, or trying to smear Apple's good name. What did I do? I just called you out on your lack of scientific method. Plain and simple.

As for your other claims, I have no problem with you addressing me directly, or for attempts at humor. I like the onion, as they tend to be pretty funny. Of course I saw no attempt at humor on your part. Only attempts to discredit those who don't stroke your ego and back up everything you say.

The interesting part is that I don't really disagree with you. I am just trying to help you understand that until definitive testing is done, no one knows what is truly going on here. You may turn out to be right or wrong, but we won't know that for awhile.

Oh, and in regard to your implication that I think Apple can do no wrong, that is definitely an attempt at humor. I have had plenty of problems with their products over the years. I just don't seem to have this particular issue, which seems to be very hard for you to accept. But that is your baggage, not mine.

All in all, I hope you get the fix that you need. Maybe going forward you could just try to be slightly open-minded to the opinions of others.

Yeah, that's all great.

Have you tested the same test material as me?

Until then, you don't know for sure, do you?

Until you do, and I see you do it, sorry, but yes, your opinions are suspect.

And hey, you know that Onion article is pretty damned funny.

Sorry to get you all in a twist over this.

I just think you can't make a statement such as "I don't have any problems..." if you aren't using the same testing material.

Well, of course you can make the statement, but don't cry about it when someone calls you out on it.

 

[jajohns8]

You are the one calling everyone who doesn't have this issue a liar. You sit there and make claims to other posters without any problems that "They just don't see it" or "They don't have HD content to test with". No, some don't have problems plain and simple and you can't accept that. All you do is bash other posters.

FYI I have plenty of HD content to test with. I have been using my Apple TV plenty since they were released and began arriving at houses as have the other people listed in my previous posts. NONE of us have problems so its either your box, encodes, or network. I do a lot of digital content creation for a living and as a student. I would notice dropped frames in a heartbeat.

Now you can either finger point and call everyone who doesn't have a problem a liar or you can ask the people who don't have problems to post their network setups and try and get to the bottom of things. For all we know people with the problems issue may be the source computer since people with the problem don't drop anything in netflix.

Sure, post your setup. Let's take a look at it.

I never said you, or anyone else was a 'liar.'

I have never said that.

I have said that claims of 'not having a problem' are suspect because we can't prove all test cases are being used.

Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

 

[chrono1081]

I just think you can't make a statement such as "I don't have any problems..." if you aren't using the same testing material.

Then can you post your encode settings/movie titles that you are using that way those of us without problems can test if we have the same titles and then help narrow down the problem?

 

[jajohns8]

Then can you post your encode settings/movie titles that you are using that way those of us without problems can test if we have the same titles and then help narrow down the problem?

I have a rather lengthy post in the other thread - blackmangotree's
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1025834/ that goes into great detail about this.

Please check that post for my specific source material.

 

[chrono1081]

Here is exactly how I encode:

1. Blu-ray -> Aunsoft Blu Ray Ripper -> Disk Copy (This makes a full copy of the blu ray folders).

2. Using the blu ray folders from step 1 in the source, I use the following settings:

Format: H.264 HD Video(*.mp4)
Codec Name: h264
Size: Original
Bit Rate: Original
Frame Rate: Original

If the movie has subtitles (30 Days of Night, Avatar, Lord of the Rings) I click the english track and check "Forced Subtitles".

The audio is set automatically by the settings above and then I click the box that says "Merge into one file" and then I begin encoding. (Note: The merge into one file box doesn't seem to do anything).

Once it rips, I simply drag it into iTunes, and add the new cover art.

It then shows up into my Apple TV, I let the buffer fully load (even though I can watch it instantly with the same results) and there is no frame skipping. I am watching Avatar as we speak and it looks amazing. I watched Terminator Salvation and Lord of the Rings earlier today and both looked fantastic.

As for my setup:

Server: Mac Pro tower (the one in my sig)
Network: Wireless N w/ WPA2 encryption
Router: Apple Airport Extreme

The Apple TV is hooked to either my 56inch (maybe 52 inch?) Mitsubishi DLP TV through HDMI. It also gets hooked to the TV in my bedroom which is a 32 inch insignia in my room through HDMI.

The router and the computers are all on the same floor and very close to each other.

I've tried HD from iTunes store, plus my tower and I can't reproduce the problem wether I let the video buffer or not.

For standard content such as Family Guy DVDs I use Handbrake and just use the Apple TV preset.

I tried ripping a few SD movies too last night just to see if I could reproduce the problem with them, I could not.

My Dad uses the same setup I have and he has no problems. His computer is farther from his router (one is on the second floor, the other is on the first floor) and he has an iMac not a Mac Pro tower. His HD file sizes aren't huge like mine are and he actually rips them only to 720P.

As for my three friends, I will have to get with them and see their setups.

 

[DJinTX]

Yeah, that's all great.

Have you tested the same test material as me?

Until then, you don't know for sure, do you?

Until you do, and I see you do it, sorry, but yes, your opinions are suspect.

And hey, you know that Onion article is pretty damned funny.

Sorry to get you all in a twist over this.

I just think you can't make a statement such as "I don't have any problems..." if you aren't using the same testing material.

Well, of course you can make the statement, but don't cry about it when someone calls you out on it.

That is exactly my point. I will be the first to admit that I do not know what is going on or how widespread this will turn out to be. Anything could end up happening. I specifically said that no one knows for sure what is going on yet, as it is too early. And yes, this includes both me and you. Unless you have supernatural powers, which you do not, then you also do not know.

Why is it that I can admit not knowing and being open to all outcomes, yet you can't?

 

[jajohns8]

Here is exactly how I encode:

1. Blu-ray -> Aunsoft Blu Ray Ripper -> Disk Copy (This makes a full copy of the blu ray folders).

2. Using the blu ray folders from step 1 in the source, I use the following settings:

Format: H.264 HD Video(*.mp4)
Codec Name: h264
Size: Original
Bit Rate: Original
Frame Rate: Original

If the movie has subtitles (30 Days of Night, Avatar, Lord of the Rings) I click the english track and check "Forced Subtitles".

The audio is set automatically by the settings above and then I click the box that says "Merge into one file" and then I begin encoding. (Note: The merge into one file box doesn't seem to do anything).

Once it rips, I simply drag it into iTunes, and add the new cover art.

It then shows up into my Apple TV, I let the buffer fully load (even though I can watch it instantly with the same results) and there is no frame skipping. I am watching Avatar as we speak and it looks amazing. I watched Terminator Salvation and Lord of the Rings earlier today and both looked fantastic.

As for my setup:

Server: Mac Pro tower (the one in my sig)
Network: Wireless N w/ WPA2 encryption
Router: Apple Airport Extreme

The Apple TV is hooked to either my 56inch (maybe 52 inch?) Mitsubishi DLP TV through HDMI. It also gets hooked to the TV in my bedroom which is a 32 inch insignia in my room through HDMI.

The router and the computers are all on the same floor and very close to each other.

I've tried HD from iTunes store, plus my tower and I can't reproduce the problem wether I let the video buffer or not.

For standard content such as Family Guy DVDs I use Handbrake and just use the Apple TV preset.

I tried ripping a few SD movies too last night just to see if I could reproduce the problem with them, I could not.

My Dad uses the same setup I have and he has no problems. His computer is farther from his router (one is on the second floor, the other is on the first floor) and he has an iMac not a Mac Pro tower. His HD file sizes aren't huge like mine are and he actually rips them only to 720P.

As for my three friends, I will have to get with them and see their setups.

This is definitely helpful information.

I still can't be sure that your setup couldn't, under the right circumstances, produce the problem.

I'm definitely not saying you aren't being truthful, there is a big difference.

I have a case open with Apple concerning this.

Ultimately their engineering team will deal with it.