Am I the only one that sees the frame skipping?

[jajohns8]

[Emphasis added]

This right here is the most telling post in this thread. 3 owners of 3 different units didn't think they had an issue until it was pointed out to them in person.

This is a widespread problem. If you don't notice it, then be thankful as it's annoying to those of us that do.

This product seems to have a whole lot of software bugs (for Apple, anyway). I sure hope its "hobby" status doesn't mean that lots of them won't get fixed soon. I like it a lot other than these bugs.

Yes, this is the issue. We all have different 'eyes,' standards, encode processes, etc. so it's really hard to get everyone on board for a specific set of testing conditions to 'reproduce the bug' as we say in software development.

I have offered to buy one of the supposed 'unaffected' apple tv 2s and test it in my system, but no one is willing to help out. (I can understand, it's the internet after all, even though I said I'd go through ebay/paypal so we were all protected, etc.)

Yeah, maybe that might prove it's just my TV (or that "I'm just holding it wrong"...LOL) I don't know, but I still want an opportunity to test one of these supposed 'unaffected' units.

I remember a while back, at one of my friends' house, he had a picture of a model on the wall, as guys sometimes do. Then someone made a comment about how 'big and ugly her hands were.'

After that, you just couldn't look at that picture the same way...LOL.

 

[benoitgphoto]

Yes, sounds like we might have the same guy. He said the same things about their forums, but would still attach the link to the official apple support forum to the case, in case it could be helpful.

I spent some time on the phone testing various things with him, and ultimately their response is to bring it in to an "authorized apple service center' with an HDMI HD Television set that is known to work with the device.

Got my call with Apple Care today. The guy is very kind and professional, up to Apple's high standard customer service. He asked me a lot of questions about my set-up, TV brand, model, etc. He got very very interested when I specifically mentioned iTunes store titles on which the issue is happening. The case is now escalated to higher engineering level. He will get back to me in about 4 working days.

Here are the results of my testings that I reported to Apple Care :

1. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes rentals content
2. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes content streamed from iTunes
3. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on any SD content
4. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on Netflix
5. Stuttering (frame skipping) only happens once the buffer gets full. Everything before the buffer is completely full plays smoothly.

 

[jajohns8]

Got my call with Apple Care today. The guy is very kind and professional, up to Apple's high standard customer service. He asked me a lot of questions about my set-up, TV brand, model, etc. He got very very interested when I specifically mentioned iTunes store titles on which the issue is happening. The case is now escalated to higher engineering level. He will get back to me in about 4 working days.

Here are the results of my testings that I reported to Apple Care :

1. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes rentals content
2. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes content streamed from iTunes
3. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on any SD content
4. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on Netflix
5. Stuttering (frame skipping) only happens once the buffer gets full. Everything before the buffer is completely full plays smoothly.

Definitely let us know what happens.

BTW, what make/model TV do you have?

 

[benoitgphoto]

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I have a Series 4+ Samsung 42" plasma model PN42C450.

 

[newagemac]

Got my call with Apple Care today. The guy is very kind and professional, up to Apple's high standard customer service. He asked me a lot of questions about my set-up, TV brand, model, etc. He got very very interested when I specifically mentioned iTunes store titles on which the issue is happening. The case is now escalated to higher engineering level. He will get back to me in about 4 working days.

Here are the results of my testings that I reported to Apple Care :

1. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes rentals content
2. Stuttering (frame skipping) happens on HD iTunes content streamed from iTunes
3. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on any SD content
4. Stuttering (frame skipping) doesn't happen on Netflix
5. Stuttering (frame skipping) only happens once the buffer gets full. Everything before the buffer is completely full plays smoothly.

I never understood why people didn't just contact Apple about the problem and focus on iTunes content in the first place. Trying to tell Apple that encodes done by Handbrake or some torrents you downloaded are stuttering is not nearly as helpful as saying that Apple's own encodes are stuttering. The latter helps eliminate many outside reasons for the stuttering and focus directly on what the Apple TV might be doing to cause the problem. If both are stuttering like people are claiming, there was never any reason to mention any other encodes but Apple's own. Otherwise, you're just unnecessarily complicating, hindering, and delaying any solving of the issue.

If you have been having the issue I would suggest you contact Apple and only let them diagnose the problem concerning their own iTunes content. There are plenty of free HD TV shows you can download and use for testing and reporting the problem.

Another thing is that early on people were reporting that the problem occurred regardless of whether the video had buffered fully or not. Now it is almost universally agreed that it only happens once the video is fully buffered. Just goes to show how hard it is to diagnose tech issues and really get down to the problem from reports on the web.

 

[rkuo]

Can someone actually characterize whatever this stuttering problem is? It's one thing to say it stutters, it's another to say that it skips 2 frames every 15 seconds on average.

Also, how about telling us a specific scene from a specific free tv show or movie on iTunes so that we can see it for ourselves? And so that Apple can reproduce it?

I can tell you that I have multiple HD encodes and have had friends over to watch and not once has anyone mentioned any frame skipping. It must be a pretty subtle problem. Not that it shouldn't be fixed.

 

[benoitgphoto]

Can someone actually characterize whatever this stuttering problem is? It's one thing to say it stutters, it's another to say that it skips 2 frames every 15 seconds on average.

Also, how about telling us a specific scene from a specific free tv show or movie on iTunes so that we can see it for ourselves? And so that Apple can reproduce it?

I can tell you that I have multiple HD encodes and have had friends over to watch and not once has anyone mentioned any frame skipping. It must be a pretty subtle problem. Not that it shouldn't be fixed.

It skips frames randomly which means not at a specific frequency. And it starts to happen only once the buffer gets full. I only noticed that on iTunes HD content either rented on the Apple Tv or streamed from iTunes to the Apple TV via Home sharing. I don't have any free TV shows to tell you but you can try on the following 0.99$ rentals among others: Fringe season 3 (any episodes), Lie to me season 3 (any episodes). As for personal encodes, I only have SD content and have no issues with them. Remember, only after the buffer gets full. It's difficult to say how many frames it skips but I can say it varies, sometimes it's more than other times. Maybe 1 to 3 frames I guess, it can lasts about half a second maybe so it is easy to miss.

 

[Bokes]

Played with my new Atv last night- and yes- dropped frames here as well.
I wish I had seen this issue before selling my gen 1 Apple TV.
files playing from the internal gen1 Atv drive were perfect.
I kinda blindly trusted that Apple had figured this out.

I suppose this forces me to buy a mini.
I have been toying with that solution for the last year now.
It might be good enough for some folks, but
IMO- 100% issue free streaming ain't coming anytime soon.

 

[rz22g]

Played with my new Atv last night- and yes- dropped frames here as well.
I wish I had seen this issue before selling my gen 1 Apple TV.
files playing from the internal gen1 Atv drive were perfect.
I kinda blindly trusted that Apple had figured this out.

I suppose this forces me to buy a mini.
I have been toying with that solution for the last year now.
It might be good enough for some folks, but
IMO- 100% issue free streaming ain't coming anytime soon.

You should be able to return the unit. Ride out the wait and see what happens. Mine is going back because while I believe the issue can be fixed by firmware, Im within my return period and will not risk keeping something that may have an actual hardware problem.

 

[liquidsuns]

Just chiming in to say that I too have this problem. Slight frame stuttering that happens on movies and is more frequent during HD movies. iTunes rentals, handbrake encodes, and iTunes purchases all have the problem.

 

[dekka007]

Not at home to try but i did see this also.

Could it be related to the TV function such as motion flow 200hz mode enabled or similar mode depending on your TV model.

Try switching it off see if the stuttering goes.

 

[WesCole]

I also have a frame skipping issue...mainly when the camera is panning/zooming on HD content.

 

[Bokes]

Any word from Apple on firmware fix for this?
My 1st gen atv was fine- so what the heck did they change to screw it up?

I would have kept the 1st gen- since I like having built in HD- but I wanted netflix. oh well.

 

[magillagorilla]

Same issue here. Noticed frame skipping/stuttering several times last night while watching a The Walking Dead via Itunes. ATV2 is tied to the network via ethernet (cat 5e). Very annoying.

 

[Pressure]

If you want to test stuttering (this goes for basically any media server / device), playback BBC's Planet Earth episode 1 called "From Pole to Pole" and go to 1 minute and 29 seconds

 

[jajohns8]

If you want to test stuttering (this goes for basically any media server / device), playback BBC's Planet Earth episode 1 called "From Pole to Pole" and go to 1 minute and 29 seconds

I'm not sure this is a good test case to reproduce the specific issue many users are having.

I understand that this is a complex, panning scene that can tax many systems, but the issue many users are experiencing come about after HD content has fully loaded in the buffer, and then it occurs at periodic intervals.

For me, to reproduce the stutter, I load up my handbraked version of Iron Man 2 (blu ray source) or an episode of Grey's Anatomy (HD from Itunes store) and let the video play. After the buffer has loaded fully (verified by watching the white buffer indicator) the video playback will stutter slightly at regular intervals. It does'nt have to be a 'visually complex' or 'graphically intense' scene, for the issue that several of us are having.

 

[chrono1081]

Oo I'm glad I found this thread again.

Guys I'm really starting to think this is network related. Heres why:

I mentioned a bunch of people not having problems, me included, well just within the last 10 days I moved into a new place, got my internet hooked up, and I hooked all of my computer stuff right back up. Nothing changed network wise.

I now get frame skipping. To make sure I wasn't crazy I took all my computer stuff to my parents house (who do not have the problem) for a few days while my walls and carpets in my new apartment were scrubbed. No frame skipping at their house at all. Nothing.

I bring everything back to my apartment today, and frame skipping. The only thing that changed in my original setup (that worked) and the setup I have now is the internet speed (which wouldn't be a factor) and the fact that now there are many wifi networks around me. Before there were none, and there were none at my parents house, or any of my friends houses.

The wifi networks may be a variable in this. Can anyone else confirm if they are on wifi and if any other wifi networks are around them?

The location of my router is not a factor, I get full signal throughout my whole apartment and its very open.

EDIT: Oh, here is my setup:

Old Apartment: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode)
Parents House: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode)
New Apartment: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode) then I switched it to Mac Pro tower connected via Ethernet, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode) and I still get the same.

Unfortunately I have no SD video anymore to test and see if it skips. I will have to go to a friends and bum a DVD to try.

 

[benoitgphoto]

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To chrono1081 :

No, the issue we are talking here is not network related and here is why:

1). As many stated and confirmed in the dozensss times I tested that, it only happens when the HD movie or HD Tv show is fully loaded to the buffer

2) to answer to your request on WIFI load, I' am on 5GHz network (AEBS) and the router is 15 feet away my atv on tge same level with no walls in between. Also, using AirRadar to scan the networks in the neighborhood, I' am the only one using that frequency.

 

[jajohns8]

Oo I'm glad I found this thread again.

Guys I'm really starting to think this is network related. Heres why:

I mentioned a bunch of people not having problems, me included, well just within the last 10 days I moved into a new place, got my internet hooked up, and I hooked all of my computer stuff right back up. Nothing changed network wise.

I now get frame skipping. To make sure I wasn't crazy I took all my computer stuff to my parents house (who do not have the problem) for a few days while my walls and carpets in my new apartment were scrubbed. No frame skipping at their house at all. Nothing.

I bring everything back to my apartment today, and frame skipping. The only thing that changed in my original setup (that worked) and the setup I have now is the internet speed (which wouldn't be a factor) and the fact that now there are many wifi networks around me. Before there were none, and there were none at my parents house, or any of my friends houses.

The wifi networks may be a variable in this. Can anyone else confirm if they are on wifi and if any other wifi networks are around them?

The location of my router is not a factor, I get full signal throughout my whole apartment and its very open.

EDIT: Oh, here is my setup:

Old Apartment: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode)
Parents House: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode)
New Apartment: Mac Pro tower connected with Wifi, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode) then I switched it to Mac Pro tower connected via Ethernet, Apple TV connected with Wifi (AEBS in N mode) and I still get the same.

Unfortunately I have no SD video anymore to test and see if it skips. I will have to go to a friends and bum a DVD to try.

Do you use the same television with your new setup?

I am inclined to think that, my issue of frames dropping after the buffer is full at least, is not network related.

I have tested using wireless and wired CAT 5e with 2 very commonly used routers with the same results. (Stock settings, both routers reset to stock.)

It would be interesting to see if the frame skip you are experiencing is indeed the same frame skip that occurs to some of us when the buffer is full.

Have you noticed it happening ONLY after the buffer is full?

 

[tropic10]

Any consensus on whether this problem had been fixed with the iOS update today? I've seen some conflicting reports on other threads.

 

[jajohns8]

Any consensus on whether this problem had been fixed with the iOS update today? I've seen some conflicting reports on other threads.

I have not tested, but blackmangotree is saying no.

The boxee box is looking better and better.

 

[benoitgphoto]

I have not tested, but blackmangotree is saying no.

The boxee box is looking better and better.

I'm still not sure it has not been fixed. I watched 3 HD Tv shows since I updated and I haven't seen frame skipping...that's a record since I was able to replicate that every single time I watch HD content either from iTunes store or my iTunes library.

Strangely, last saturday, an Apple tech advisor called me and he was looking to book an appointment with a Genius at my local Apple store to have my aTV tested over there. I asked him if they were able to replicate the issue in their lab and apparently they were not able. If it's fixed, it's like the right hand doesn't know what the left foot is doing...We'll see...I will run other tests on it in the next few days.

 

[NiklasK]

I still get stutters on rented movies and my localized movie library. I did however try an episode of the BBC series Sherlock and the file was in 720P@50Hz and it was smooth, no stutter at all. All other material in 23.98fps for example displays the micro stutter, no matter if its non-buffered or buffered.

Another thing, is anybody experience the picture of movies and TV-shows as kind of video-ish compared to the more "normal" film-ish. The effect can also be achieved by turning on different smoothness filters in TVs. No other devices in my setup (xbmc, blu-ray, DVR) shows this issue so I´m certain there is something up with how the appletv handles video.

I´m sticking to my xbmc-box for now but I´d like Apple to fix this so I could use Apple TV instead.

 

[JohanDA]

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To chrono1081 :

No, the issue we are talking here is not network related and here is why:

1). As many stated and confirmed in the dozensss times I tested that, it only happens when the HD movie or HD Tv show is fully loaded to the buffer

2) to answer to your request on WIFI load, I' am on 5GHz network (AEBS) and the router is 15 feet away my atv on tge same level with no walls in between. Also, using AirRadar to scan the networks in the neighborhood, I' am the only one using that frequency.

Just to reinforce your argument: I (along with others in this thread) are seeing this issue without using wireless on apple TV at all. I'm connected via ethernet. As others have stated it is easiest to see during panning and zooming because this is where you expect the motion to be the smoothest.

 

[jajohns8]

So I have fired up my 2 test cases and there appears to be no stuttering now, after applying the 4.2 update.

I am not sure without some more long term testing, but for the short term at least, the issue appears to be fixed with the material I have used....

Waited til the buffer was full on 2 different handbrake encodes of blurays (same procedure that would reproduce the issue prior to the update.) and so far, so good.

One strange thing did happen during the update. During one of the times the power was cycled the apple logo and background appeared pink and green. Turning off the tv and turning it back on again caused the colors to go back to the standard silver and black.

On a related note, the subtitle issue appears to be fixed as well.