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AMD Discussion
- Thread starter koyoot
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sounds good to me, and ECC obviously is for everybody ;-)
[doublepost=1484495432][/doublepost]Would also be cool to see an AMD based Mac, as there were already some rumors for that when the first AMD Fusion chips came to market.
To be fair, there are some real performance advantages to fairly closely tying the PCH architecture to the CPU generation.
Do you really want Zen to be saddled with legacy circuitry to support DDR2-400 memory?
At some point you need to move on. Intel's been striking a reasonable stance with generally supporting two generations of CPUs per PCH.
The other argument is that the marketshare lost by not catering to people who want to upgrade their CPU but not the motherboard, and the people who want to upgrade the motherboard but not the CPU, is lost in the noise. The DIY people buying CPUs and motherboards is a niche, and the subset of those that have financial constraints such that they don't want the latest memory, CPU and PCH that they can get is a subset of the niche.
This is especially absurd on an Apple forum - since Apple uses no AMD processors and throws the baby out with the bathwater on each revision. (Your arguments are not without merit - but seem absurd on the "Mac Pro" forum.)
PS: I also think that ECC should be for everybody, but fortunately have the budget to go all Xeon for desktops and servers.
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I was not talking about DDR2. AM3 CPUs supported DDR3 and DDR2 memory, so it would be normal for the CPUs following AM3+ to support both DDR4 and DDR3 RAM.Do you really want Zen to be saddled with legacy circuitry to support DDR2-400 memory?
However given the different number of pins in this case, it might have not been possible to evolve AM3+ into a new socket supporting DDR4.
This thread is about Zen. It is irrelevant in which forum it is located.
Indeed. I think it's madness to NOT have ECC, and it baffles me that it seems to be considered some sort of esoteric fringe thing that only servers and tinfoil-hat people think is necessary.
It's part of the reason I upgraded my 4,1 instead of buying a new iMac. Then again, that machine pays my salary, and I don't think my employer would be too impressed with the "alpha particle ate my homework" excuse...
It seems that you support my point that forwards and backwards compatibility comes with a cost - and that there are advantages to getting a mobo and CPU that match, and costs to have a mobo that supports multiple CPU generations.
And all I had to do was to say "DDR2" to make the point.
I'm quite content with the situation that older generation RAM and mobos don't work with newer generation CPUs. It would be pennywise and poundfoolish to get an E5-26xx v5 CPU and expect to plug it into my v2 mobo with DDR3.
AMD shouldn't be ham-stringing their new CPUs by forcing them to work in old mobos. That's poundfoolish, although the geeks living in moms' basements might appreciate the cost savings.
Fastest Ryzen CPU to cost between 3999 and 4999Y.
If anyone would ask me it will be around 599$.
Only 8 and 6 core variants at launch available. Launch in march. 4C/8T around 4 months later. Same window for APUs.
Currently all of 4C/8T samples have 65W TDP. AMD wants to take it down to 45W, stock. 6 core CPUs should be both in 65 and 95W TDP versions.
If anyone would ask me it will be around 599$.
Only 8 and 6 core variants at launch available. Launch in march. 4C/8T around 4 months later. Same window for APUs.
Currently all of 4C/8T samples have 65W TDP. AMD wants to take it down to 45W, stock. 6 core CPUs should be both in 65 and 95W TDP versions.
AMD has had the ram controller in the CPU for an long time. But an other thing is more pci-e lanes at an lower price then Intel, virtualization support in way more cpus.To be fair, there are some real performance advantages to fairly closely tying the PCH architecture to the CPU generation.
Do you really want Zen to be saddled with legacy circuitry to support DDR2-400 memory?
At some point you need to move on. Intel's been striking a reasonable stance with generally supporting two generations of CPUs per PCH.
The other argument is that the marketshare lost by not catering to people who want to upgrade their CPU but not the motherboard, and the people who want to upgrade the motherboard but not the CPU, is lost in the noise. The DIY people buying CPUs and motherboards is a niche, and the subset of those that have financial constraints such that they don't want the latest memory, CPU and PCH that they can get is a subset of the niche.
This is especially absurd on an Apple forum - since Apple uses no AMD processors and throws the baby out with the bathwater on each revision. (Your arguments are not without merit - but seem absurd on the "Mac Pro" forum.)
PS: I also think that ECC should be for everybody, but fortunately have the budget to go all Xeon for desktops and servers.
AM4 supposedly supports up to 3600 MHz memory controller, but the CPU defines how fast the RAM is natively. Ryzen has 2666 MHz memory controller. So there is plenty of room for: a) overclocking the memory, B) future generations of Zen.
Speaking of which, development of Zen+ already is undergoing. Depending on how market will shift in upcoming months, there will be one of two versions of the CPU. One is with much beefier cores, aparat from obvious things like AVX512, second is that single core can have... 4 threads
.Zen++ combines both concepts
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You posted that AMD will have PCIe 4.0 GPUs for end 2018.
So you say AMD will be an obsolete platform again. What's the point of Zen then?
Let me give you an example.
AMD is working on few variants of the technology they will offer, in this very moment. Vega architecture is done. Silicon is done. They moved to another step in their road. And they are experimenting.
What I say is that PCIe 4.0 will not be seen before 2019 in any GPUs. The PCIe 4.0 spec will be released I think this year. The GPU design takes time. Same goes for platforms. If it is released this year, it will not jump immediately to the specs. Not even Nvidia Volta will use it.
AM4 is supposed to live to around 2020-2021.
I know. The slides also claimed that AMD will release server GPUs(True), with 12 TFLOPs(not exactly true - its 12.5 TFLOPs) of compute power. And AMD roadmap shows that next, after Vega is Navi slated for 2018.
I suggest having open mind. From what I understand, PCIe 4.0 will appear but only in Server GPUs. The GPU you quote is server one, with 1/2 Double Precision ratio. Nothing here is confirmed, about Server GPUs, but I can assure you that consumer electronics will see PCIe 4.0 GPUs in at least 2019.
Just because GPU has PCIe 4.0 compatibility, does not mean you will be able to buy a platform that supports it.
None of current Intel roadmaps about Server CPUs show it will have PCIe 4.0. There is no server roadmap for AMD, and we have only Naples.
None of current Intel roadmaps about Server CPUs show it will have PCIe 4.0. There is no server roadmap for AMD, and we have only Naples.
and if we get pci-e 4.0 will board makes just switch it so that x8 pci-e 4.0 becomes X16 pci-e 3.0?
IF you remember my post from some time ago, about 2017 being for AMD brand reset, well I got some information that can validate this.
AMD will build their brand on one simple idea. Innovation. This is what they are after. Let me give you an example. From AMD perspective: lets offer 8 core CPU with lowest price possible, that can shake up the market. Lets offer 6 core CPU with lowest possible price, that can shake up the market. Lets offer 4 core CPU with a price that can shake up the market. This is innovation in a market that has not seen any innovation for last... 10 years. Lets make high-end CPUs a mainstream solution, and lets be the brand who everybody will associate with this shake up.
GPUs? Lets offer future proof idea for GPUs, extremely powerful from compute perspective, with lots of graphical capabilities, and features, priced extremely competitively, with... very good efficiency. Competitive efficiency. Where is the innovation? In hardware features, and ideas, for execution of the tasks.
Biggest innovation however comes with APUs. For those especially was designed Infinity Fabric. And they will get the highest benefit from using it.
AMD will build their brand on one simple idea. Innovation. This is what they are after. Let me give you an example. From AMD perspective: lets offer 8 core CPU with lowest price possible, that can shake up the market. Lets offer 6 core CPU with lowest possible price, that can shake up the market. Lets offer 4 core CPU with a price that can shake up the market. This is innovation in a market that has not seen any innovation for last... 10 years. Lets make high-end CPUs a mainstream solution, and lets be the brand who everybody will associate with this shake up.
GPUs? Lets offer future proof idea for GPUs, extremely powerful from compute perspective, with lots of graphical capabilities, and features, priced extremely competitively, with... very good efficiency. Competitive efficiency. Where is the innovation? In hardware features, and ideas, for execution of the tasks.
Biggest innovation however comes with APUs. For those especially was designed Infinity Fabric. And they will get the highest benefit from using it.
Hexus has an interview with CTO Mark Papermaster
http://hexus.net/tv/show/2017/01/AMD_s_chief_technical_officer_interviewed?sf52081299=1
http://hexus.net/tv/show/2017/01/AMD_s_chief_technical_officer_interviewed?sf52081299=1