AMD Discussion

[koyoot]

Yes, you are lol. If you are a fanboy of neither, I don't think you would have even bothered to come out and write rebuttal post.
Just admit and move on lol. I never said being a fanboy is a bad thing. I just find it funny that you keep denying yourself as AMD fan while your history of posts says otherwise.

BECAUSE I AM NOT A FANBOY. At least not about AMD. In my computer history I had one CPU from them, and it was the time, when they were better than Intel.

Every computer of mine had Intel+Nvidia combo. How can I be AMD fan? The same way I act on other forums on which people are trying to spin discussion one way or another(Nvidia is better, AMD Is better!). I do not like bashing and trashing hardware. Especially when it contradicts facts, that are empirical!

In this case, empirical facts show that Ryzen CPUs are on the same level as Broadwell-E. Yet, people are able to claim that they are worse, based on two out of context scenarios. And when I post things to prove that in wider perspective, whole statement is bull***t, people call me a fanboy of AMD.

Maybe you don't know, but I have also provided information about Nvidia GPUs in GTX 1080 thread. And turned out to be correct. In 90%, but still correct.

As far as putting it in Macs, personally the x1800 is all the power I need in my Mac and therefore I'd love to have a cheaper new-new-Mac Pro with a Ryzen, plus I could give 2 craps about Thunderbolt.

Ahem, Ryzen CPUs will not land in Mac Pro. They are iMac CPUs . Mac Pro ones are called ThreadRipper, and come in 12 and 16 core versions. The chipset for them is even different. X390 and X399.

 

[ssgbryan]

I am asking serious question. Why do people focus only on gaming, and completely do not care about professional workloads on this forum, where it goes for AMD branded hardware? It is regardless if it is CPUs or GPUs. AMD GPUs in OpenCL workloads, when compared with Nvidia GPUs are faster(R9 390X vs GTX 980 TI, for example), yet nobody cares about it. It all matters than Nvidia brand GPUs are better because they are better in gaming.

And I was supposed to be AMD fanboy, where I was just showing reality as it was?

P.S. The fragment about 6900K integrating GPU, shows your lack of knowledge. It is the same clean 8 core CPU, without any GPUs on die, just like Ryzen.

So to sum it all up. AMD has as fast, faster and slower CPU, depending on scenario, that costs 50% less, and uses less power. Im sorry, but you have to be soft in your head to be against Ryzen. Or just Intel fan. Which is understandable. I for one I am Intel fan.

I care about CUDA computing (I do 3d Graphics), and I would like to game when I'm not working.

I wouldn't mind an AMD Naples dual CPU setup with a Nvidia 10X0 series video card (or 2).

 

[Zarniwoop]

It'd be weird to see some macs with AMD, some with intel, and likewise some with and some without TB. The whole proposition just makes it ridiculous. At the very least though, the CPUs will probably be cheaper with this new competition.

MacBook vs MacBook Pro 2016.. same USB-c, one has TB3, another has not. Macbook doesn't support any version of TB.

And true, I find it weird. Not as weird as when I cannot connect new iPhone to any Macbook (or Pro) without a dongle. Now that is weird! Out of box, no way to connect.

 

[AidenShaw]

And true, I find it weird. Not as weird as when I cannot connect new iPhone to any Macbook (or Pro) without a dongle. Now that is weird! Out of box, no way to connect.

Out of box, plus $50 dongle - that's the Apple way....

 

[slughead]

MacBook vs MacBook Pro 2016.. same USB-c, one has TB3, another has not. Macbook doesn't support any version of TB.

And true, I find it weird. Not as weird as when I cannot connect new iPhone to any Macbook (or Pro) without a dongle. Now that is weird! Out of box, no way to connect.

I didn't know it didn't have TB. Very weird.
[doublepost=1491784499][/doublepost]

Ahem, Ryzen CPUs will not land in Mac Pro. They are iMac CPUs . Mac Pro ones are called ThreadRipper, and come in 12 and 16 core versions. The chipset for them is even different. X390 and X399.

Is this from the same magazine you quoted that said Ryzen would to 5ghz on air cooling?

You haven't even put down a convincing argument they're going to switch to AMD yet, let alone some future processor and chipset that doesn't even exist yet.

 

[AidenShaw]

let alone some future processor and chipset that doesn't even exist yet.

That's the AMD way...

Push vaporware.

 

[deconstruct60]

MacBook vs MacBook Pro 2016.. same USB-c, one has TB3, another has not. Macbook doesn't support any version of TB.

And true, I find it weird.

Some of the TBv3 quirks that popped up in the late 2015 systems of other vendors and some hiccups with some of the version 1.0 TB support chips make the MacBook move not too weird. While the MacBook's "one port to rule them all" seems to call out for TBv3 ... if TBv3 wasn't quite ready for prime time then it would make sense for Apple to skip it. ( the Macbook bump was pretty close to late 2015 .. especially considering when they would have had to finalize the design. )

If the MacBook gets updated in 2027 and still doesn't have TBv3 ... that would be in the weird zone. [ They may have screwed the case design on the MB too and that it is too smaller for a TBv3 controller on the "ribbon" from the main logic board to the port. ( that has to do with some of the other structural stuff they stuffed in that corner and may have run out of room. ). A smidge thicker to support room for that and the keys with the new longer travel might help alot.

In short, I think Apple wanted to put TBv3 in the MacBook but the TBv3 timing was off, so it went out as only more modest variant of Type-C. Case adjustment is long trek through Industrial Design choke point so it is going to take more than a year to uncork.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Some of the TBv3 quirks that popped up in the late 2015 systems of other vendors and some hiccups with some of the version 1.0 TB support chips make the MacBook move not too weird. While the MacBook's "one port to rule them all" seems to call out for TBv3 ... if TBv3 wasn't quite ready for prime time then it would make sense for Apple to skip it. ( the Macbook bump was pretty close to late 2015 .. especially considering when they would have had to finalize the design. )

If the MacBook gets updated in 2027 and still doesn't have TBv3 ... that would be in the weird zone. [ They may have screwed the case design on the MB too and that it is too smaller for a TBv3 controller on the "ribbon" from the main logic board to the port. ( that has to do with some of the other structural stuff they stuffed in that corner and may have run out of room. ). A smidge thicker to support room for that and the keys with the new longer travel might help alot.

In short, I think Apple wanted to put TBv3 in the MacBook but the TBv3 timing was off, so it went out as only more modest variant of Type-C. Case adjustment is long trek through Industrial Design choke point so it is going to take more than a year to uncork.

"I think we designed ourselves into a bit of a thermal corner, if you will." - Federighi

It seems that what he said could be applied to other Apple products too.. =)

Both MB 2015 and 2016 share the same USB-c without TB (any version) compatibility. Not even with an adaptor.

 

[koyoot]

Is this from the same magazine you quoted that said Ryzen would to 5ghz on air cooling?

You haven't even put down a convincing argument they're going to switch to AMD yet, let alone some future processor and chipset that doesn't even exist yet.

The Magazine have said that 5GHz on air is achievable on SINGLE CORE. And it actually is achievable, on end products.

No this information is not from CanardPC. Type in X399 and X390 in google. You should find plentiful of links.

 

[slughead]

The Magazine have said that 5GHz on air is achievable on SINGLE CORE. And it actually is achievable, on end products.

No this information is not from CanardPC. Type in X399 and X390 in google. You should find plentiful of links.

Can you link me to an ACTUAL stable benchmark and not just 4 month old rumors started by canard?

Also: You're the only one on the internet rumoring Apple is for sure going to use AMD for their next Mac Processors. That is unequivocally what I was asking about, not that AMD plans to release new chipsets in the future.

 

[koyoot]

Can you link me to an ACTUAL stable benchmark and not just 4 month old rumors started by canard?

Also: You're the only one on the internet rumoring Apple is for sure going to use AMD for their next Mac Processors. That is unequivocally what I was asking about, not that AMD plans to release new chipsets in the future.

Show me any post saying that Apple will use AMD CPUs in their upcoming computers. Anywhere on this forum. Go ahead. All I have said was that it is a possibility.

About the OCing of the Ryzen, I think Anandtech thread on the OCing results of Ryzen CPUs has few of them .

 

[slughead]

Show me any post saying that Apple will use AMD CPUs in their upcoming computers. Anywhere on this forum. Go ahead. All I have said was that it is a possibility.

About the OCing of the Ryzen, I think Anandtech thread on the OCing results of Ryzen CPUs has few of them .

Ahem, Ryzen CPUs will not land in Mac Pro. They are iMac CPUs . Mac Pro ones are called ThreadRipper, and come in 12 and 16 core versions. The chipset for them is even different. X390 and X399. - Koyoot
​

*Microphone drop*

 

[deconstruct60]

"I think we designed ourselves into a bit of a thermal corner, if you will." - Federighi

It seems that what he said could be applied to other Apple products too.. =)

The MacBook doesn't have a thermal problem.

Step 5 of Teardown https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+MacBook+2016+Teardown/62149

The keyboard and that hinge-mounting point combine to bracket in the internal space behind the port. If the keyboard could give up enough space for the smallest TB controller chip then it would work. They could make the case a little bit deeper and/or wider. They pushed the Type-C socket up were the MagSafe port went before. MagSafe doesn't really have much of electronics that need to sit behind it. Coupled to the growing trackpad somewhat pushing the keyboard up, they have made it tough to put TB in a tiny, boxed in area. That strip above the keyboard is speakers, partial vent , mounting points , and port/wifi infrastructure area.... a lot of stuff into a space they are making smaller.

Personally I think speakers on either side of the keyboard is better, but I suspect that busts the weight budget they gave themselves. With the speakers out of the top bar above keyboard they'd have more room for electronics. But trying to limbo under the MBA with approximately the same aluminum body and screen/glass weight they are trimming the 'wings' off the either side of the keyboard to shave weight. With what they got they just need to drop the sound quality a bit and bring the speakers into a less wide area. That would free up space to do what they need to do. It is fixable in the current design with that trade-off.


There are placement constraints on how far away the TB controller can be from the port. So just moving it to the deep interior isn't an option.

Both MB 2015 and 2016 share the same USB-c without TB (any version) compatibility. Not even with an adaptor.

You can't really "add on" TB capability with an adapter.


Back to a AMD cpu usage though. .... Is Zen really going to compete with the Y-class (m series products ) offerings from Intel??? There too is where it seems like Intel still has an edge.
Zen seems tuned to run after the middle-top of the Core-i line up (and with multi chip modules try to chase up into the Xeon E5 zone). However, the edge at the "most mobile". ( tablet PCs , MacBook ultra-ultra mobile) market I'm not sure they have something.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Back to a AMD cpu usage though. .... Is Zen really going to compete with the Y-class (m series products ) offerings from Intel??? There too is where it seems like Intel still has an edge.
Zen seems tuned to run after the middle-top of the Core-i line up (and with multi chip modules try to chase up into the Xeon E5 zone). However, the edge at the "most mobile". ( tablet PCs , MacBook ultra-ultra mobile) market I'm not sure they have something.

To achieve hUMA (heterogeneous Uniform Memory Access), AMD is the only x86 platform for the desktop market. iGPU only Intel can do it too. So if hUMA would be Apple's goal for macOS, Intel could have the laptops with iGPU and AMD would be the dGPU platform.

 

[koyoot]

Ahem, Ryzen CPUs will not land in Mac Pro. They are iMac CPUs . Mac Pro ones are called ThreadRipper, and come in 12 and 16 core versions. The chipset for them is even different. X390 and X399. - Koyoot
​

*Microphone drop*

FFS, it meant, that they CAN land in them O_O. Not that they will!

God damn it. I know that I am not native english speaker, and writer, but even I would understand what is the point of the post O_O.

Back to a AMD cpu usage though. .... Is Zen really going to compete with the Y-class (m series products ) offerings from Intel??? There too is where it seems like Intel still has an edge.
Zen seems tuned to run after the middle-top of the Core-i line up (and with multi chip modules try to chase up into the Xeon E5 zone). However, the edge at the "most mobile". ( tablet PCs , MacBook ultra-ultra mobile) market I'm not sure they have something.

I don't know. Last thing I have seen is that 8 core CPU will have 45W TDP for mobile.

For 5W class products we are looking at Raven Ridge CPUs. Already there is 4C/8T, 11CU Engineering sample floating around that has 35W TDP. Its design is supposed to go everywhere from 4 to 35W ranges.

 

[cube]

http://www.pcgamer.com/msi-adds-x370-gaming-pro-to-growing-am4-motherboard-family/

http://www.pcgamer.com/msi-introduces-five-micro-atx-motherboards-for-ryzen/

 

[koyoot]

Still no mITX boards for AM4 platform .

However...

If the companies are looking for new BIOS before releasing the mITX boards, it will be great.

https://twitter.com/Dresdenboy/status/851578199746248704
Gigabyte's BIOS reduces the latency on the RAM, but whopping 17 ns! That is huge.

 

[cube]

http://techreport.com/news/31645/biostar-x370gtn-is-the-first-ryzen-mini-itx-motherboard

 

[koyoot]

http://techreport.com/news/31645/biostar-x370gtn-is-the-first-ryzen-mini-itx-motherboard

Are they available to buy? None of mITX boards are. They are supposed to launch somewhere between middle of April and Middle of May. If companies, like I have said in upper post, are waiting for new BIOSes and new microcode, that is great thing.

Releasing them with proper BIOS lifts a lot of work for end users.

 

[cube]

It's 5-Day!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11244/the-amd-ryzen-5-1600x-vs-core-i5-review-twelve-threads-vs-four

 

[cube]

Creators Update benchmarks?

 

[Zarniwoop]

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/4429_der...4)_takes_down_four_global_first_place_scores_

 

[cube]

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/Rating/3920

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/AMD-Ryzen-5-1600/Rating/3919

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/AMD-Ryzen-5-1500X/Rating/3921

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/AMD-Ryzen-5-1400/Rating/3922

 

[cube]

Bristol Ridge benchmarks:

https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/7207/amd-a12-9800-bristol-ridge-apu-socket-am4-review

Note that some 8370E results are limited by the graphics card used or how the game is programmed.

 

[cube]

Several times I have checked the AMD website for different things and it seems out of date.