Tablets Android tablets are dead

[sracer]

Amazon tablets are laggy enough out the gate. I can't imagine how bad it is with the heavy usage of Play Store/Google Play Services added to it. Those two are the first things I disable on any Android device, just after disabling software updates.

You all should look at the level of permissions for just Play Services. It's scary. Disabling it on my Note II nets 2 days total battery life, over what would normally be 8-12 hours standby with it enabled.

Although the Fire 7 is indeed laggy out the gate, the HD 8 and HD 10 aren't. Using the Fire Toolbox to disable the preloaded bloatware allows the HD 8 and HD 10 to be pretty snappy. For quite a while, the HD 10 was my only Android-based tablet and it was quite adequate. I have a few Amazon Fire-related threads here on MR where I document my experiences.

Regarding the drag of Google Services on battery life, I think that it highly depends upon the device that it is running on. On my older smartphones, it does indeed seem do a lot of background stuff. On my Tab S6, only minimal drain (I've run tests with it in airplane mode and not and the difference over a 12 hour period is 2% of battery life drain).

On the Fire HD 8 with Google Services installed, the battery percentage drops 1% over a 12 hour period with the tablet in standby. (without Google Services, there is a 0% drain)

 

[jimimac71]

My original 2017 tablet is the Fire 10 with ads on the home screen and 32 GB storage. The least expensive. Of course, the cameras are awful until lately. My 2017 was fixed focus on both front and back and 2 MP.
My 2019 Fire 10 does not have ads and has 64 GB storage. Still 2 GB RAM.
My Samsung is also 2019, has 3 GB RAM and 64 GB storage. It is a more friendly OS to me.
Battery life and performance is not big from one to the other. 2 days of use for all my Android devices.
I do like USB-C. My 2017 is micro USB and the port is sloppy, making the product real had to charge.
The only benefit I'm getting from iPad is 3 days of battery life. Everything else is a step backwards from Android, even Amazon with the Play Store.

 

[cuzo]

Might sell the S6 lite tab, the battery drain is uncalled for... I don't know what to do, Youtube is poorly optimized for it.

Not to mention a few updates.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Although the Fire 7 is indeed laggy out the gate, the HD 8 and HD 10 aren't. Using the Fire Toolbox to disable the preloaded bloatware allows the HD 8 and HD 10 to be pretty snappy. For quite a while, the HD 10 was my only Android-based tablet and it was quite adequate. I have a few Amazon Fire-related threads here on MR where I document my experiences.

Regarding the drag of Google Services on battery life, I think that it highly depends upon the device that it is running on. On my older smartphones, it does indeed seem do a lot of background stuff. On my Tab S6, only minimal drain (I've run tests with it in airplane mode and not and the difference over a 12 hour period is 2% of battery life drain).

On the Fire HD 8 with Google Services installed, the battery percentage drops 1% over a 12 hour period with the tablet in standby. (without Google Services, there is a 0% drain)

On my S20 FE, I have to keep Play Services enabled for certain apps to function (Otherwise, Little Caesers won't stay logged in, and other apps, while they work, keep spamming endless 'please enable Play Services to use app' notifications) but I curbed a ton of its usage via NetGuard, by disabling its internet access. A lot of what those apps require can run locally, such as location APIs, and saving login info to device. Not sure why they rely on that service to do that, but oh well. Curbs the problems. I don't have a Google account logged in on that phone either so that might reduce its hunger for resources.

I got both Fire 7 and a Fire HD 8 (not sure what gen they are, I bought them a few years ago) and they lag like heck. I guess I'm spoiled both by my Apple gear (iPad especially) and my 120Hz display on the S20 FE, but any jitters bugs the living heck out of me. That's just running the stock Amazon OS, and I can't imagine what mess they'd become running Google services on top of that. They have extremely low specs for a tablet, literally 2GB RAM and a quad core SoC from like 2011 or something.

Contrast that to similar specs on the latest ONN band Walmart tablets I am enjoying, which run Android 11 Go Edition, and they're snappy and fluid compared with those Amazon tablets. Same RAM amount, running full Google including my account, sync on and everything else. I also had horrible battery life from the Amazon tablets. The 7" dies in less than a day standby doing nothing (if you disable Wifi, it goes days, so not sure what's happening while on wifi) and the 8 can at least make a day with 20% left if you leave the wifi on, again, disabling it you can go a week on that one. Something is using data for no reason which I haven't been able to pinpoint yet.

 

[mi7chy]

Meh. All tablets are dead.

Even the x64 tablets? I'm thinking an AMD 6000U tablet would be ideal. x64 > Android > iPad

https://www.techspot.com/news/92914-asus-latest-gaming-tablet-comes-rtx-3050ti-egpu.html

 

[jimimac71]

Well … I can use the Yahoo website with my iPad and it doesn’t lock up.
Does with my Android tablets.
I haven’t experienced any of the same sluggish issues as you Nick.
I used the Google Play Store on both of my 10 inch Amazon tablets.
My Samsung tablet has a superior CPU than what Amazon uses.
The additional 1 GB RAM with Samsung doesn’t seem to matter enough to write about.
I guess it is like Roku versus Apple TV.
Some claim ATV has such superior performance.
If performance means how fast an app loads, I don’t care.
I don’t see my expensive ATV worth 3 or 4 times the Roku or Amazon Fire.
An iPad costs 2X the 10 inch Fire tablet. For me, the iPad is not twice as good.
Android is so much more friendly for me than iPad OS.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Unless Amazon released some amazing new tablet that I'm unware of, the Fire tablets will remain a laggy, ad-filled piece of garbage with outdated SoC (and running on extremely outdated Android forks) and adding Google to the mix will only make them ten time worse. Google Play Services has insane permissions and kills performance on even a flagship product. Heck, years ago, I could reduce an Android 2.3 smartphone to its knees by merely logging onto a Google Account and letting it sync/update. It'd lag or freeze, run hot, kill battery in minutes and eat up all the storage too.

Kindle Fire are bottom of the barrel devices that if it weren't for being harmful to the planet I'd have tossed them both into the garbage. I can only hope they improved them but I refuse to buy another. Heck, my Fire Stick was horrible after the 'new UI update' that made it a laggy mess. Everyone said 'sideload Wolf Launcher' but all I got was 'error parsing package'. It never worked for me so I just unplugged the thing. Alexa devices also had major issues with my internet and constantly disconnected requiring plug pulls every day or two. When I'd ask them to turn something on I'd get the 'there are two devices by that name, which one do you want?' when there was only ONE device called 'living room light 1'. I hated it. Amazon is great for buying classic tech but horrible for software/devices.

I really wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt for promoting AOSP and being anti-Google but since the original Kindle Fire (which was great) they have succeeded in ruining any recent offerings.

If anyone loves them, and can live with the jitters and lag, and horrible battery life and inability to keep more than two apps running at the same time, great. That's not something I can accept. Their most recent fail is removing the 'music store' from Amazon Music in a later version (an update that was forced--the app closed out if you ignored it). Now, to buy music you have to use the Amazon website and go through a lot of hoops to 'buy MP3 album' because they apparently prefer the 'you'll own nothing and be happy' mantra like most everyone else these days. I stuck with Amazon for years, loved the Kindle app, and loved Amazon App Store (when it was part of a Samsung device) and loved the MP3 store. I got 1,000s of songs I bought over time from Amazon MP3/earlier versions of Amazon Music. Today, it's impractical to navigate the mess to buy a song/album and with Google Play Music being axed (thanks Google, no wonder I stopped using your apps) there's literally no one else to buy music from except Apple (which at least has an Android app).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I couldn’t name an Android tablet out there if I’m honest. I also don’t know anybody that has one which must be testament to how dominant iPads are in this sector.

 

[nickdalzell1]

iPads win out for the smoothness and lack of jitters but I've been overall impressed with Walmart's latest ONN tablets. They got USB C finally (FWIW) and they are quite smooth and lack the jitters I've expected of most cheap tablets. The 10.1" Tablet Pro has finally replaced my beloved Note 10.1. It does YouTube well, and I appreciate night shift and dark mode being fully automatic. As much as I tried to cling hard to the UI of the TouchWiz devices of yore, I finally had enough of migraines due to horrible refresh rates and PWM of older OLEDs.

I don't need expensive stuff. Finding decent and even great cheap stuff has been great lately. Even a budget device has finally become not hot garbage, excepting Fire Tablets, of course. Maybe Amazon did something wonderful in the last two years but I live by a credos of 'if a company angers me enough I leave/stop buying from them' but unfortunately too many modern folks bend over and take crap and that's why some crap still gets produced.

I remember Android Forums back in 2010 making quite accurate claims of 'cheap Net10 garbage Androids will ruin the reputation of Android'. Problem is today too many people accept medicore devices and so the cycle continues.

 

[jimimac71]

I fired up my Samsung tablet and it is so much easier than my iPad.
I could not get the Google keyboard to work properly on iPad.
Predictive text is sloppy on iPad and can't be modified.
Speed on iPad is no value when everything else is more difficult.
Apps that were not compatible before on my Samsung, install now.
As for a low cost Android tablet, Samsung is the one for me versus Amazon.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Samsung is perfect for me regarding phones. But their latest tablets are too expensive IMO. I only paid $50 for the ONN 7". $60 for the 8", and $100 (on sale) for the 10". The cheapest Samsung 7" Tab A was $149. And I've had experience with Tab A's. They're about the same as Amazon tablets.

To get the nicer features of a Samsung tablet you got to pay a ton of $$$. The S series are the only ones that get Bixby Voice (don't laugh, I prefer it over Assistant as it can do far more) and for that you're spending well over $699 for a tablet. I paid $699 for my S20 FE last year. I wouldn't spend more than $299 max on a tablet.

 

[InuNacho]

My main gripe with the Android tablets I've come across in the wild is the terrible choice of aspect ratio.

I found a Dell Venue Windows 8.1 tablet at a thrift store for extremely cheap. I plan to use it as a disposable "out in the field" device where I don't care if it gets hurt. It runs Windows so that is great. It has a terrible 16:9-ish that seems to plague all non-Apple tablets. For this small 8 inch screen, we're sort of reaching the limit of what that aspect ratio can do. The iPad's more square ratio lets it be usable in any orientation.

The Samsung Tab S series that gets my interest every once in a while is large and seems awkward to hold vertically with that 16:10 ratio.

If the base $329 iPad ran Android or had a USB C port, I'd be all over it.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I still got an old Toshiba Windows 8 tablet lying around somewhere. It was frustrating to use. I never could figure out the gesture system that Microsoft was going for--didn't help there was no tutorial or walkthrough on first launch of any app on the thing. Took tons of tapping/swiping like a madman to ultimately figure out how to download a book on the Kindle app. I naturally assumed that you tap and hold, like, you know, every other Kindle app out there, popping up a context menu and tapping 'download'. Or just tapping it and it downloads/opens the book. You want to know how you download a book on Windows 8?! You tap, and slide downwards on the icon of the book cover. Again, who would figure this out? No wonder Windows 8 was a total flop. It was like this across the board.

I agree the aspect ratios are weird today. Samsung is the worst, there's a 10.1" Tab A I got also, and it's so long it's impossible to really enjoy content in landscape. The Tab S3 however was more appropriate. They seem to be going to this whole 'remote control' phone size lately too, as my S20 FE is like longer than it is wide, which just feels weird in a pocket.

 

[jimimac71]

I have no use for a smartphone.
My eyesight is just too limited for a less than 10 inch screen.
On the other hand, I prefer the 16:9 screen.
My Samsung tablet is the most I’ve spent. It was in the ballpark of $250.
It was $70 off retail. It is my favorite device and as capable as I need.
A really inexpensive tablet (Walmart) sounds too good to be true.
My tablet is still what gets used the most.
The old PC gets very little use.
My iPad is more trouble than it’s worth.
My $40 Roku is better than my $200 Apple TV.
Kind of like spending a fortune on a wristwatch.
I just need to know what time it is.

 

[InuNacho]

I still got an old Toshiba Windows 8 tablet lying around somewhere. It was frustrating to use. I never could figure out the gesture system that Microsoft was going for--didn't help there was no tutorial or walkthrough on first launch of any app on the thing. Took tons of tapping/swiping like a madman to ultimately figure out how to download a book on the Kindle app. I naturally assumed that you tap and hold, like, you know, every other Kindle app out there, popping up a context menu and tapping 'download'. Or just tapping it and it downloads/opens the book. You want to know how you download a book on Windows 8?! You tap, and slide downwards on the icon of the book cover. Again, who would figure this out? No wonder Windows 8 was a total flop. It was like this across the board.

I agree the aspect ratios are weird today. Samsung is the worst, there's a 10.1" Tab A I got also, and it's so long it's impossible to really enjoy content in landscape. The Tab S3 however was more appropriate. They seem to be going to this whole 'remote control' phone size lately too, as my S20 FE is like longer than it is wide, which just feels weird in a pocket.

I actually didn't start using Windows personally until 10, I've always been a Mac person but that is slowly changing with certain aspects of MacOS rendering obsolete software and hardware I routinely use. I did have to use 8 when I worked in ITAD for the past decade and I remember what a debacle that was.

I do remember Samsung actually made the more square tablets briefly and I was pretty interested in them but wasn't sold on the buttons on the bottom. I keep my back button on the left, just makes sense to me.

I have the S21+ which is a bit bigger than your S20 FE. I actually feel that the longer size is beneficial for pocket-ablity and nothing else. My casual jeans I wear while out fit my phone perfectly but sweats and dress pants make having the phone quite annoying. Then again I need the bigger bright screen for my livelihood so its a moot point for me I guess.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Ironically, the old Tablet UI of the original 2012 Tab 2, Note tablets had the back button on the bottom left on the navbar, this was before they had physical buttons on the bottom. It kinda annoyed me when playing Pinball Arcade as the left flipper action was too close to that back navbar button and ended up closing me out mid-game too often!

Oh don't get me wrong I adore my S20 FE. But the length doesn't feel to pocketable when the last bit of the top sticks out of the pocket! I have tiny pockets. My Note II, however, was a perfect balance. Not too thick, not too wide, not too tall. I just got so tired of dealing with the workarounds and hacky methods to keep it working post VoLTE mandate. I'd lose data, the phone would constantly be de-authorized by the carrier, and many apps just randomly stopped working, the latest one being Samsung Health, not updating my Together progress a few days into this month! I almost lost the progress completely. I prefer older UI design, and older phones with tons of features, but they must be dependable, reliable and not burn my eyes in. I totally underestimated how much blue light filters and tone shifting display tech was important. Go back to flickery, low PWM OLEDs and getting chronic headaches ain't fun, then dealing with modern network incompatibilities makes that worse.

@jimimac71,

I tried to go smartphone-free a few years ago, with one of those newer smart-ish flip phones running KaiOS. My car's bluetooth refused to pair properly to play music from it, (worked for calls, but music just played from the tiny little phone speaker) and that was after spending a day trying to figure out why it refused to find the 8GBs of music on my SD Card (was a very stupid folder thing, it had to have specific folders for songs, and each of my MP3s have been in their own folder for years. Individually copying each of 1,000 songs to a root folder called 'Music' took forever!). The keypad eventually stopped working only a few months in, making me give up. They truly don't make 'em like they used to.

That said, they don't make flip phones as privacy friendly as they used to. They all got Google Assistant on them and all the apparently legally-required tracking stuff especially post-COVID (need that contact tracing apparently!). So don't go after a modern flip phone assuming it's as anonymous as a burner. Stupid VoLTE mandates.

 

[jimimac71]

I would use a smartphone if my eyesight was better.
Long story, but I also don’t drive. Not since 1995.
There is a quick fix to reverse the back button on my Samsung.
Why did they have to be different?
I still have a Sansa Clip+ that is at least 10 years old.
The clip is broken and it can’t play AAC files.
It still works, so I keep it.
I have a hard time seeing the screen.
Yes, I know where to get an 8 inch phablet, but the company piggybacks with either AT&T or T-Mobile, which is not a good fit with me.
My flip phone uses the Verizon network, and should I ever want it, has the 5 Star button. It also has Alexa but it’s very iffy. Cannot send a text using my voice.
Receiving text is very handy since everyone seems to want 2-step verification.
The best thing, no I don’t work there, unlimited talk and text for $19.99.

 

[nickdalzell1]

2 factor auth is awful, inconvenient and another thing I disable. Companies have tried to push me into it, resulting in many calls to their 'support' telling them where to shove it. I know how to make secure passwords and don't need anyone protecting me from myself. I hate companies who assume everyone's an idiot. I also refuse to use password managers relying on 'the cloud' because of data breaches. I also don't write passwords on paper like my parents do. Or worse, on post-its taped to the monitor as the boss does.

I had to cancel some subscriptions over 2 factor requirements breaking things. But that's ok because other than Netflix and YouTube Premium, I prefer to own stuff. No worries of my music disappearing because of a license dispute over an artist, or a service EOLing like Google Play Music. I still do as much as possible on-device. I confined Bixby and Assistant to device only, limited, but no internet needed to do basic functions. It really amazes me how powerful our devices are today, yet everyone wants to use the internet to do basic things that a device is firmly capable of doing on device, such as playing music, alarms, taking notes, I mean everything is becoming cloud only. Sucks. My S20 FE does far more offline than online and it's helped battery and data use. I use Verizon too. But no matter which carrier I use, about 80% places I go, such as work, or hikes, there is no signal. I need to do things on device as much as possible. I'd love to do more. I don't know why VoLTE is being pushed since there's plenty of areas of Owensboro (especially rural) that ONLY have 1x/3G only service. I probably see 'LTE' or 'LTE+' (whatever that is, 5g?) in one small part of town, like downtown near the bridge. In my house right now I only pick up three bars of 3G! No LTE. AT&T has LTE but their rules about phones (they hate older models) and upgrade policies offend me. They force you to constantly upgrade tech which is unsustainable and unnecessary. I'm no longer a consumer like that.

 

[TechRunner]

I also don't write passwords on paper like my parents do. Or worse, on post-its taped to the monitor as the boss does.

This made me laugh out loud. My father-in-law writes his on a post-it, then sticks it to the keyboard deck of his laptop

 

[nickdalzell1]

That's not all though! not only is the notepad of passwords in easy reach of anyone (not even in a safe!) but they all use Norton/Lifelock because they fear someone hacking them! It's kinda cancelling itself out. If I login to their bank with their notepad password, as far as Norton is concerned, I'm them! Nothing raises a red flag on Lifelock unless I incorrectly enter a password. It's a joke like McAfee.

I am glad my grandmother kinda gave up on the Internet. She's been more into watching TV and she's 94. It was futile attempting to explain 2 factor auth to her just to get her facebook back. Heck I couldn't even get mine back but of course Facebook has been irrelevant to me since my deer Daisy died in 2013. I used to post pics of her there and that was all it served, although I met my girlfriend there, but today we text and don't use Facebook. I can't play my favorite games there anyways since Flash died. Games like Gardens of Time and Farmville were EOL'd with flash.

 

[twdawson]

I hate 2 factor with a passion, Apple forced me into it without me being aware of what was happening and they refuse to let me roll back.
My account password is really long and if anyone can get passed that then I will shake their hand.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Yeah once you enable it you're SOL. It remembers every device I ever used that ID with so it no longer pesters me, and I made it where it can text me codes if I wanted to add another to avoid having to boot the Mac and wait for a code to show on the screen, but I don't even bother any more. I'm back on Android and have more control. I am also on Linux. Right now I'm systematically killing subscriptions and most of those were forcing 2-factor 'hell' as I call it. A lot of them had locked me out because I refused to update their apps, and I added up the cost of all of them and OH MY GOODNESS!! I was out $400 a month in subs alone! Sheesh!

The password used by Data in Star Trek: The Next Generation was apparantly very secure at the time:

 

[twdawson]

I would change my Apple ID but I have music that I have purchased with it so will lose the convenience of that. Once 2 factor has been turned on then you have two weeks to decide if you need to disable it. I did not realise this at the time and let that date go past.

It would be better if these companies give us the choice if we want this or not.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I agree. It's like they all go out of their way to treat everyone like a moron. I'm sick of having to prove to them that I know what I am doing. The world is idiot proof enough as it is. If someone does something stupid, at least they should own up to it and learn from it. That's how I learned. I broke many a PC with sketchy sites and software back in the days of Bonzi Buddy, but I learned and moved on.

 

[twdawson]

My wife’s Apple ID has never had 2 factor turned on and I have told her if she gets a pop up asking to enable it then just say no.

I have just bought her a Samsung tablet for Xmas so she can watch movies and YouTube on a bigger screen, it was £200 on sale and it’s perfectly fine for what she needs. It’s on of the A series but can’t remember what model but it just proves you don’t have to spend a fortune to get a tablet that will serve your needs.

I got the iPad mini for the form factor as I need it for work, it actually fits in my pants pocket.