Android Vs. Windows 8/Windows 10...

[kdarling]

They secretly developed multi-touch Android and when Jobs found out about it... the project was some way along the way, he was pissed.

Jobs had no right to be pissed. Apple did not invent multi-touch, nor were they the only ones to think of using it on a smartphone, even if he mistakenly thought so. Google only held back multi-touch on Android as long as they did, because Schmidt was naively trying to please his idol Jobs.

However, when Palm came out in 2009 with the multi-touch Pre model, Google had no choice and turned on their multi-touch as well -- in early 2010, THREE YEARS AFTER THE IPHONE WAS SHOWN OFF.

That is when Jobs threw his infamous "it's a stolen product, I'm going thermonuclear" hissy fit. He was talking about taking ideas any time after it had been shown off.

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NOTE 1: Jobs of course immediately threatened Palm with patent lawsuits... just as he did when Palm's CEO rejected Jobs request to join the illegal group of companies blocking their HRs from recruiting each other's employees. Palm's CEO pointed out to Jobs that Palm had a lot of patents too. Jobs backed down, and apparently vented his anger at Google instead.

NOTE 2: Apple actually tried to get a trademark on the word "Multi-Touch". They almost did, too, until Jeff Han (you remember his TED demo that was before the iPhone) wrote a 75+ page letter to the USPTO explaining that it was an industry standard term and should belong to no one.

No, Google didn't copy Apple's code with Android, but they copied what they did. Google found out what Apple was doing and turned around and betrayed Jobs with the leaks coming from Schmidt. The reason why Apple doesn't just sue Google is because their working relationship is complex.

The reason Apple doesn't sue is because there's nothing to sue over. Neither Apple nor Jobs ever accused Schmidt of stealing any secrets while on the Apple board.

The fact is, there was no need to steal anything during the few months he was there in late 2006. After the iPhone was shown off in January 2007, anyone could easily copy it. The ignorant idea that it required inside information is something that fanboys made up totally on their own.

It was not until three years after the iPhone was shown off, and over a half year after Schmidt left the Apple board, that Jobs started his public ranting about Android being a "stolen product".

Jobs was talking about iPhone concepts being stolen AFTER it was shown off to the world, NOT beforehand.

 

[kdarling]

I disagree with a part of this. Yes, you're right, iOS is a souped up, spit shined, touch based version of everything that came before it.

Correct.

However, the big difference that you're glossing over is MULTI-TOUCH. That was the game changer and nobody was doing it.

Nope. You were right with your first comment about "touch based". Having a totally finger friendly UI was the important part.

Multi-finger support could've been left out and it would've still been a hit.

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Apple certainly wasn't the only ones thinking about finger friendly OR multi-touch. Among others:

BenQ's Black Box phone concept was quite influential, as it was a simple black slab with a full touchscreen that changed according to whatever app you were using. Engadget even wrote in 2006 that they hoped Apple would use the same idea in their rumored iPhone:




As far as multi-touch, it's already been noted that the OpenMoko project announced plans for a multi-touch capacitive touch phone with pinch zoom months before the iPhone was shown off. Doesn't matter if it sold or not, it is proof that the ideas were already out there.



Synaptics, who makes the touchpads in darned near every laptop (including Apple's), had already been demonstrating one of the hottest concept phones, the Onyx, with their demo UI that included neat features like dragging one person's picture on top of another to set up a conference call, or dragging a GPS flag onto a contact in order to send them a map.

Their multi-point capacitive surface was sensitive enough to detect fingertips or finger edges, and discern a cheek from a finger. You could even kiss the phone and it could send the lip image it sensed:





There's a reason why Apple broke their usual secrecy at the time, and revealed the iPhone a half year before it was ready. Jobs knew that many others were working on quite similar devices, and he wanted to be seen as a leader, not a follower.

 

[kdarling]

What Apple did was create a breakthrough product that nobody else could do or was really working on at the time. And they did this technology that really only existed on large devices and mostly in labs in a tiny package and commercialized it.

"Nobody else could do?" Having worked on both stationary and handheld touch devices since 1991, I would say otherwise. There were at least a half dozen touchscreen manufacturers at the time.

However, when Apple needed a multi-touch projected capacitance screen in 2006, probably only Synaptics and a Taiwanese company called TPK had the ability to ramp up enough production for a small screen. As it turned out, an established German company called Balda had bought half of TPK in 2006, and made a deal with Apple to supply the iPhone's original touchscreen.

Inside each of these "grid squares" it's dead space. That means if your tissue is touching just that part of the touch grid layer, nothing happens. You have touch part of the actual grid lines. What Apple did right there on the first iPhone (remember, the HP TouchPad came years after the first iPhone), was have a CLEAR, TRANSPARENT touch grid layer that was so dense that the grid squares were tiny.

It's not about touching grid lines. The whole point of capacitive touch screens is that they sense the rather large contact patches of fingertips held nearby.

From each such large contact patches, algorithms are used to calculate the probable centers of touch.

This is precisely why the touch experience on every iPhone from the first gen forward is so good. It's precise and fluid.

Actually, as we know from tests, Apple's touch controller software trades off being accurate in the middle, with losing accuracy near the edges. This is because of the above-mentioned patch center calculations not having enough data to work with near the edges:

If you put your iPhone or iPad at just the right angle in the right lighting (try natural sunlight), you'll see this amazing transparent, clear touch grid layer. Imagine doing this back in 2007...

It's just a transparent grid made of indium tin oxide, something that had been widely used since at least the early 1990s in flat screen displays. Interestingly, the materials are now getting scarce and other solutions are being sought after, such as micro thin silver wires or carbon nanotubes.

Apple had to do a zillion things to get the first iPhone right. That's why it's such a magical device and amazing what they did when they first launched it.

Any technology is amazing to those who are new to it, or untrained in it.

However, electronics is not magic, it's engineering. Touch UIs were old hat in the industrial control and handheld fields. Nothing Apple used was unknown.

Personally I was glad that Apple jumped in, as it made my own work experience more appreciated and sought after.

The switch to finger friendly itself was not surprising. For example, in 2006, Qualcomm was making a capacitive touch controller and working with several phone makers. Everyone knew the change was coming.

"Capacitive sensors -- those that conduct electric currents and can be activated by the touch of a finger -- will, according the experts, be the dominant technology incorporated into the next generation of cell phones."

- Touch-screen tech coming to cellphones, PhysOrg, July 2006

"the mobile phone market is almost ripe for an explosion in touch sensitive user interfaces and, when it comes, it will be capacitive technology that dominates."

"We expect most demand to come from finger-sensitive technology built into high-end feature phones. This will be a significant shift from today's wireless PDA segment, where most stylus-driven touch screen devices can be found."

- Stephen Entwistle at Strategy Analytics, June 2006

 

[booksbooks]

"Nobody else could do?" Having worked on both stationary and handheld touch devices since 1991, I would say otherwise. There were at least a half dozen touchscreen manufacturers at the time.... and blah blah

This above and the other post... you're not really saying anything. And nothing you've said detracts away from what Apple did in commerce. Concepts, prototypes, ideas... none of which was novel (the MS Surface was doing photo dragging, etc.)... And FingerWorks was around since 2000 of which Apple bought and used the multi-touch... And all of this stuff was buzzing around when the rumor mill was going hard about the iPhone.

Nobody successfully commercialized a multi-touch blank slate phone before Apple. And the top phone makers weren't even close to even seriously considering doing it prior to Apple. RIM did not believe a phone could do it because they couldn't believe it would have any battery life.

Apple has an over 30 year history researching and developing slate devices like tablets. They started in 1982.

What all that stuff you blurted out says is basically that you're scurrying around the Internet because you like to argue... and that somehow this takes away from how unique and revolutionary the first iPhone was. But the fact is it doesn't... and it doesn't change history, and how Jobs was sold out by Schmidt and Google.

 

[Oletros]

and it doesn't change history, and how Jobs was sold out by Schmidt and Google.

You're talking about your own alternate reality, don't you?

What all that stuff you blurted out says is basically that you're scurrying around the Internet because you like to argue.

And this coming from someone that the only thing that knows about the open moko is the first post from Daniel Eran Dilger he has found when someone broke his wrong perceptions

 

[booksbooks]

You're talking about your own alternate reality, don't you?


And this coming from someone that the only thing that knows about the open moko is the first post from Daniel Eran Dilger he has found when someone broke his wrong perceptions

You, and others... what Jobs and Apple did was create a device that was so far ahead of anything else and innovative it disrupted everything.

Pointing out geek projects, etc. is useless. What you guys are doing is arguing on the Internet over something you clearly don't know enough about. Part of your premises is that Apple didn't invent multi-touch so they aren't innovators here and nobody copied them, they copied others.

First, I never, ever said Apple invented multi-touch. They didn't. You can see examples of multi-touch as far back as 1986 in Toronto, and probably sooner but that's the earliest I've seen.

What happened was... outside of Apple innovating the crap of things to get a product like the iPhone... is that Google ended up competing with Apple when they weren't supposed to. Schmidt sold Jobs out.

It's called a breach of fiduciary duty. This is why things are confidential. This is why companies enforce NDAs. In the highly competitive tech industry where first movers are important as is long lead times, secrecy and confidentiality is vital. It's unsophisticated and revisionist to discount what really happened.

You can speak geek or you can speak business. Jobs... was a salesman and a businessman. He saw opportunities for things that others didn't or couldn't. He could mix the right technology and commercialize something and make a good profit. Most people can't do this. To be privy to these innerworkings and developments and then leak them is a major breach of fiduciary duty... of shareholder trust. That's why the law steps in in that these companies are being run (at the very top) by people who themselves are elected by the shareholders and serve the shareholders. It's a trust position. When breaches happen, civil and criminal law kicks in... in the form of remedies like injunctions, monetary damages for things like irreparable harm, etc.

What happened happened. Life goes on. Android is dominant. Maybe the world's a better place for it. But it doesn't detract away from Apple being the real innovator in the cell phone industry and allowing us to have phones that are much more advanced than we would have had without them around.

 

[Oletros]

You, and others... what Jobs and Apple did was create a device that was so far ahead of anything else and innovative it disrupted everything.

Pointing out geek projects, etc. is useless. What you guys are doing is arguing on the Internet over something you clearly don't know enough about. Part of your premises is that Apple didn't invent multi-touch so they aren't innovators here and nobody copied them, they copied others.

First, I never, ever said Apple invented multi-touch. They didn't. You can see examples of multi-touch as far back as 1986 in Toronto, and probably sooner but that's the earliest I've seen.

What happened was that Google ended up competing with Apple when they weren't supposed to. Schmidt sold Jobs out.

Google bought Android before Jobs invited Schmidt to the Apple board.

Jobs and the rest of the board knew that Google were developing a mobile OS and smartphones.

Schmidt excused himself from the boards meetings relating the iphone and if you think someone needed insider information after the iPhone was released you need to learn a little more and stop reading the "facts" from sites like Appleinsider.

In fact, nor Jobs nor the Apple board had anything against Schmidt, they lauded him.

And the funnier thing is saying that kdarling don't know about multi-touch or developing multi-touch devices, you don't know how ridiculous is that someone like you, that only know things from the most fanatics sites tell others that they don't know

 

[booksbooks]

Google bought Android before Jobs invited Schmidt to the Apple board.

Jobs and the rest of the board knew that Google were developing a mobile OS and smartphones.

Schmidt excused himself from the boards meetings relating the iphone and if you think someone needed insider information after the iPhone was released you need to learn a little more and stop reading the "facts" from sites like Appleinsider.

In fact, nor Jobs nor the Apple board had anything against Schmidt, they lauded him.

And the funnier thing is saying that kdarling don't know about multi-touch or developing multi-touch devices, you don't know how ridiculous is that someone like you, that only know things from the most fanatics sites tell others that they don't know

Come back when you actually know what you're talking about.

 

[Oletros]

Come back when you actually know what you're talking about.

Don't project your own ignorance on others, of you want to be applauded this is not the site, you have to go to other forums