And that may be asking a lot - in terms of time and resources - of moderators who are, after all, volunteers.
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Announcement: PRSI moderation review and hate speech/discrimination rule changes
- Thread starter HexMonkey
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And that may be asking a lot - in terms of time and resources - of moderators who are, after all, volunteers.
The Xenforo software does not block moderator actions depending on who started a thread. But yes we have an audit log, with a record of every action by every moderator in every thread.
That's why the users themselves need to be able to spot potential problems which would make them contact the team.
I'm trying to visualize how this would work
An off-topic post gets deleted
In the thread it is just gone... nothing
So should there be a place holder that says "this post deleted by [mod name]"
And if so, you still can't see what the post was to make a judgment on it
And even if you did see the post [click here to see deleted post?], and make a judgement, you are doing just what the moderators have done
Maybe you would have a different opinion, but in the end, the moderators thought differently
and if you are just concerned about your posts, that's the Contact Form again
if you are concerned about a specific moderator, again Contact Form
Beyond that, you may just have to make an offer to @arn to buy the site itself
An off-topic post gets deleted
In the thread it is just gone... nothing
So should there be a place holder that says "this post deleted by [mod name]"
And if so, you still can't see what the post was to make a judgment on it
And even if you did see the post [click here to see deleted post?], and make a judgement, you are doing just what the moderators have done
Maybe you would have a different opinion, but in the end, the moderators thought differently
and if you are just concerned about your posts, that's the Contact Form again
if you are concerned about a specific moderator, again Contact Form
Beyond that, you may just have to make an offer to @arn to buy the site itself
A post might not be visible on the site, but could remain in the database.
I did not suggest that everybody should see that a post was deleted.
No, Xenforo does not have such a feature. The log is checked manually when there's any hint of a problem.
With respect, what is the problem with accepting that mods have decided to delete a post because that deleted post was considered to be off topic?
If you have an issue with this, why not use the "contact us" form.
You probably never had a post deleted.
Contacting the site for just one post would be too much.
LOL, I've had several deleted, and honestly never gave it a second thought
Actually, for what it is worth, I have had posts deleted, not an enormous number, but several, and usually, for the reasons I have posted in this thread earlier.
However, I never gave it a second thought, nor thought to waste my time nor the time the mods on pursuing the matter further.
Then maybe what needs to be evaluated is not the moderation, but your flagrant repeated violation of the rules and inability to learn from it
You know, insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
Just to be clear, what I wrote applies to cases where a moderator is involved in a discussion where the general temperature is high, or where a post with violations contains disagreement with opinions or answers the moderator posted in the thread (when posting as a regular user). In those cases, the moderator would ask the others to take a look at the violations, to avoid any suspicion or appearance of bias. This applies to any thread a moderator participates in as a regular user, where this type of situation arises; it makes no difference who started the thread.
Sorry I was unclear!
@Weaselboy summed up why a moderator might moderate posts in a thread s/he participates in, where the type of situation I describe above doesn't occur:
I can think of another situation where a mod might moderate in a thread s/he's participating in. If for example I'm participating as a regular user and someone insults someone else, as long as I'm simply a participant-witness to the insult am not involved in the contentious part of the discussion, I might moderate the insult as long as it was a clear violation and the exchange had nothing to do with me or my posts. I would also submit a post report so the others saw right away what I was doing (as well as following other documentation routines). I might also simply choose to submit a post report so someone else could take a look - it would depend on 1) whether I felt comfortable having two roles (participant and mod), and 2) how certain I was that the violation had nothing whatsoever to do with my posts or my stated opinions. Again, I wouldn't want to be seen as being both judge and jury, so these nuances would be very important and dependent on context.
Since all moderation is visible to the entire team and is very well documented (not to mention usually discussed), it's virtually impossible for a mod or admin to go rogue. It would be seen and dealt with immediately. Our thorough documentation routines mean that anytime a complaint comes in, we can see everything that was done, who did it, and when. The paper trail is a security for users who send questions or complaints.
Remember, simply disagreeing with a moderation decision doesn't mean anyone is abusing his/her powers.
That's of course your choice. It means you won't get answers when you wonder why moderation was done, but that knowledge isn't necessary if you're happy simply to accept that the goal of moderation is to keep things running smoothly.
At the end of the day, you have to decide if you believe us or not when we explain how we moderate.
Isn't that the goal of moderation? To keep the forums flowing in the best way possible according to the rules therein? As was said a number of times, you can use the contact us link to find out why a post was deleted. You can ask the question or live with it and move on. That you believe the mods might protect their own when it was said multiple times care is taken to avoid an abuse of power or act like judge and jury means your thinking may have to modified somewhat as you can believe they do their (volunteer) jobs to the best of their ability or not.
Either way, while not dismissing your viewpoint, I view this as picking and choosing your battles and sometimes you can't win them all. Learn and move on. You have been a member here for 9 more years than me so you should know the ropes very well.
This whole conversation about off topic posts is... off topic.
No, this does not qualify as a conflict of interest. Moderators are instructed as to how they can use the "extra" functions they have, and follow these instructions. If they did not do so, it would be obvious, since deleted posts leave a trace. There are no conflicting ethical issues here.
We ask that users not edit out the content of their own posts, as this can often disrupt the flow or fabric of a discussion. However, we do encourage users to send us a post report of any of their posts they would like altered or deleted due to embarrassing information or information that could reveal their identities. We strive to meet users' wishes while preserving discussions, out of fairness to the other thread participants.
Just because a moderator deletes a post from public view, that does not mean it is deleted from the database. In most instances ( save rules violating posts that have affected the function of the forum in some way) deleted posts stay in the database and are still visible to various segments of the staff, depending on the nature of the post(s) involved.
I have had several posts (some of them were long) deleted over the years, for either being off-topic or for quoting another post that ended up having moderation (for whatever reason). I have also had mod action (light slap on the forum wrists) a time or two that I did not agree with. And in those instances, I made use of the "contact us" form. And even though I still disagreed with the outcome after my case was reviewed, I didn't allow it to keep bothering me.
If I didn't believe the ethics of the staff and what this business is about, not to mention the friendly strangers I enjoy reading from, I wouldn't be posting here.
This forum is not a Democracy. It is an Oligarchy. None of us have any inherent rights here. We have been given privileges.
If you don't believe the staff and how this business is run, there are plenty of other places on the internet to spend your time.
How frequently are those reviewed to ensure moderator actions are taken in as much an unbiased and fair way as possible?