Anyone else not wanting Lion?

[Roger Pelizzari]

Lion Voices on Snow Leopard?

I am going to experiment with moving voices from Lion to my Snow Leopard installation, to see if I can get that benefit of Lion without installing it.

Frankie, I'm very interested in doing the same thing.
I'd like to try it with the new American voice - Tom.

Please let me know if it works or not.

Thanks

 

[BogieWoz]

Still very happy with Snow Leopard.

I'll upgrade eventually...I may even jump straight to 10.8 (if there is one) but SL is just as fantastic a desktop OS as it was last week.

This might be good idea unless Apple requires Lion on your computer before upgrading to 10.8 (similar to need Snow Leopard before upgrading to Lion).

 

[Yorb]

This might be good idea unless Apple requires Lion on your computer before upgrading to 10.8 (similar to need Snow Leopard before upgrading to Lion).

Also, and someone else touched on this too... these are stepping stones. You may not NEED any of the new features in 10.7, but like it or not they (or some of them) will become part of the Mac experience for the next version. If you skip versions, you put yourself at a disadvantage when it comes to learning the NEXT version.

If you make a living in the technology industry, and since we're on this forum I suspect most of us do, it wouldn't hurt to stay current. It's like pushing your parents to get smartphones. Yeah, they will go on and on about how they don't NEED more than texting and phone calls, but what happens when there are no more dumbphones? Don't cling to familiar ledges! LEAP! LEAP MY CHILDREN!

 

[Zwhaler]

If you make a living in the technology industry, and since we're on this forum I suspect most of us do, it wouldn't hurt to stay current. It's like pushing your parents to get smartphones. Yeah, they will go on and on about how they don't NEED more than texting and phone calls, but what happens when there are no more dumbphones? Don't cling to familiar ledges! LEAP! LEAP MY CHILDREN!

The only problem here is that many pro users don't need the UI changes in Lion that are clearly aimed at consumers and more specifically first-time PC switchers, but rather are looking for performance improvements which sadly didn't make it into Lion, as a matter of fact it performs worse than Snow Leopard at some tasks which why I'm not buying right away.

 

[alphaod]

After playing around with Lion on my MacBook Pro and installing server parts on it to test, I don't think I'm upgrading my Mac Pro to Lion.

 

[Akula971]

Lion in a cage

Got it, stuck it on a spare hard drive. Tried it, got frustrated, noticed some things changed for changes sake. Now back to work making money with Snow Leopard.

To be perfectly honest I found Tiger to be very stable indeed on a G4. Never saw a program crash. My poor little G4 mac mini was not powerful enough though.

 

[Small White Car]

I like Lion a lot, but even I'm not using it full time yet. There's never a need to rush into a .0 version.

But unlike a lot of you in here, I'm looking forward to the future.

To be perfectly honest I found Tiger to be very stable indeed on a G4. Never saw a program crash. My poor little G4 mac mini was not powerful enough though.

For me, Tiger was the worst OS I've ever used. (And I even used Windows ME for awhile.) All 3 of my Macs crashed stuff constantly for two and a half solid years. I honestly considered Windows more and more as time went on.

That's why I don't like talking about stability on message boards with other people. 'YMMV' applies SO much in this case that I hesitate to give anyone advice.

Talk about features, sure. But 'stability' is such an amorphous concept that I don't feel that anything anyone says is aplicable to anyone else.

 

[getz76]

noticed some things changed for changes sake

I noticed that as well. They broke a lot of little things, too, like fine-tune adjustments.

I am still dual-booting. I do not hate it, but I hope 10.7.3 is a bit more polished and they fix Mission Control's buggy window placements.

 

[AppleDroid]

After playing around with Lion on my MacBook Pro and installing server parts on it to test, I don't think I'm upgrading my Mac Pro to Lion.

I went the same route (minus server parts) and while Lion is ok as-is I don't think I'm upgrading my Mac Pro anytime soon. If I wanted to do a clean install just reinstalling apps/setting up RAID again etc would be more time consuming than Lion is worth.

 

[gpzjock]

Rosetta got stoned, so I throw rocks at Lion.

+1 for the Rosetta is a deal breaker for those of us too cheap to buy new Adobe CS and are still using databases built out of AppleWorks from circa 2000.
SL ain't broke I refuse to break all my stuff to fix it.
With 3 PowerPC based Macs still in daily use (Tiger running) and 3 Intel based Macs on SL I'm not going to destroy the connectivity and compatibility of my network.
Sucks to be Lion imho.

 

[Small White Car]

Honestly, this thread has surprised me with the number of people using processor-intensive products through Rosetta. I mean, I can understand a word processor or something, but most of you are talking about Adobe stuff.

I couldn't wait to ditch all ,my Rosetta stuff as soon as I could. I'm not interested in having a $3,500 computer and then hobbling it with emulation layers. If I still had to use PPC software I would've just bought an old G5 machine and kept using that. Much cheaper and it runs it directly.

I'm not saying people have to update their software. The old stuff works just fine. But if you're gonna use that then why upgrade to new hardware and then not take advantage of it? Seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[AppleDroid]

I'm not saying people have to update their software. The old stuff works just fine. But if you're gonna use that then why upgrade to new hardware and then not take advantage of it? Seems like a waste of money to me.

Sadly because companies like XRITE are holding many people hostage with their (initial) refusal to update their software from PPC and expecting us to pony up $200+ for a new puck/kit.

Other people may just use Photoshop for slicing up web designs and honestly there isn't much need to pay $1500 in upgrade costs to get new features they won't use. There's many reasons why not to spend money where it isn't worth it.

 

[Trudy]

It's not really a "feature" but Lion is a lot more secure than any previous version of OS X.

• Full address space layout randomization to prevent exploitation of buffer overflows
• Application security sandboxes (for applications supporting it). Malware taking over an application no longer necessarily gets the full privileges of the user running that application, only what the application gets (example, text editor does not get to access the Internet).
• Full disk encryption
• In Safari, the user interface and page processing are separate. If you hack the browser, as has been done, you're now sitting there in a restricted, sandboxed process instead of being able to roam the system.
• Time Machine is now encrypted, works well with the full disk encryption

 

[Small White Car]

Sadly because companies like XRITE are holding many people hostage with their (initial) refusal to update their software from PPC and expecting us to pony up $200+ for a new puck/kit.

Other people may just use Photoshop for slicing up web designs and honestly there isn't much need to pay $1500 in upgrade costs to get new features they won't use. There's many reasons why not to spend money where it isn't worth it.

And you consider both of these reasons to buy a new computer?

They sound like reasons to NOT buy a new computer to me.

 

[scottsjack]

It's not really a "feature" but Lion is a lot more secure than any previous version of OS X.

• Full address space layout randomization to prevent exploitation of buffer overflows
• Application security sandboxes (for applications supporting it). Malware taking over an application no longer necessarily gets the full privileges of the user running that application, only what the application gets (example, text editor does not get to access the Internet).
• Full disk encryption
• In Safari, the user interface and page processing are separate. If you hack the browser, as has been done, you're now sitting there in a restricted, sandboxed process instead of being able to roam the system.
• Time Machine is now encrypted, works well with the full disk encryption

Very true. While Lion really sucked on my MP I am using it on my MBP. The extra security and FileVault 2 work really nice. I keep browsing the Mac sites searching for ways to turn the cutsy iOS crap off. It's getting better.

 

[AppleDroid]

And you consider both of these reasons to buy a new computer?

They sound like reasons to NOT buy a new computer to me.

Apparently I'm on too many cold meds because I was responding with a different understanding. My points were about why NOT to upgrade to Lion because sometimes 3rd parties don't offer a reasonable update in order to fully move away from Rosetta apps.

 

[ActionableMango]

Honestly, this thread has surprised me with the number of people using processor-intensive products through Rosetta. I mean, I can understand a word processor or something, but most of you are talking about Adobe stuff.

I'm one of those people.

I couldn't wait to ditch all ,my Rosetta stuff as soon as I could. I'm not interested in having a $3,500 computer and then hobbling it with emulation layers. If I still had to use PPC software I would've just bought an old G5 machine and kept using that. Much cheaper and it runs it directly.

I don't have the budget to ditch all my Rosetta stuff. I have no interest in spending a significant amount of money to replace software that works well and meets my needs. Also, some applications were simply never updated and have no Intel version.

I'm not saying people have to update their software. The old stuff works just fine. But if you're gonna use that then why upgrade to new hardware and then not take advantage of it? Seems like a waste of money to me.

I went from a G4 to a Mac Pro 5,1. It was not a waste of money. To stay with the G4 would mean staying on an outdated platform and not being able to take advantage of newer Intel-only applications and operating systems such as Snow Leopard and Windows. To upgrade to a used G5 would mean spending money and still being stuck with the same problems.

Bootcamp ALONE was worth it.

The MP is so powerful that Rosetta emulation is a non-issue for me. The MP, even with Rosetta, is simply WAY WAY faster than the G4.

From my point of view, I have a computer and OS that runs both Intel and PPC software quickly. There is nothing compelling enough in Lion for me to pay to replace my PPC software that can be upgraded and do without the PPC software that cannot.

Not everyone has the same situation, needs, requirements, and budget as you do.

 

[Loa]

Hello,

Interesting debate. Just a pointer for those talking about replacing all their PPC apps: there are some of us willing to illegally download their apps. If you're one of them, it will be hard to understand those that won't do it.

Loa

 

[Small White Car]

Not everyone has the same situation, needs, requirements, and budget as you do.

My suggestion was for ways for people to spend less money, so I'm not sure why you're taking a dig at "my budget." It's not like I said that people need to spend more anywhere in my posts.

I didn't say people 'should' do anything. I was just surprised at the percentages of people who were responding. That was all.

Interesting debate. Just a pointer for those talking about replacing all their PPC apps: there are some of us willing to illegally download their apps. If you're one of them, it will be hard to understand those that won't do it.

Yeah, gee, thanks. So you're saying that people with a different view are likely immoral thieves. Nice. I can take a hint. I'll stop bothering this thread since it's apparently making people angry.

(And no, I don't pirate, in case you want to see it in writing.)

 

[gpzjock]

Anyone notice there is a recession happening?

I "invested" £1400 in 2008 to move to Intel based Mac Pro loveliness. I invested a further £250 in RAM and another £300 in a replacement GFX card in 2010. At the time I was very pleased that all this expensive hardware was backwards compatible to the previous £1700 I spent on my G5 iMac 3 years earlier and all the software I have collected since 2000. Even being strained through Rosetta it handed my G5 its arse on every task it was given. Hardly surprising with 10 times the Geekbench score eh? If I had another £1200 in my pocket I would have bought the Intel based software to go with it, but I didn't. 3 years ago I had a disposable income, today it's a very different story.

The £20 upgrade for Lion will cost me £1149 for Adobe CS 5.5 because my Power PC version won't upgrade to it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adobe-Creative-Suite-Production-Premium/dp/B003DZ0DD8/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1311904315&sr=8-14

Database replacement? I can't be doing with no Office Database rubbish so Filemaker Pro is the only realistic replacement, £285 for the full version: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Filemaker-Inc-FileMaker-Pro-11/dp/B003BEEQ2A/ref=sr_1_1?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1311904525&sr=1-1 or I can be cheap and get the less nice version for £199.

So I need to spend £1350 more on a £20 OS upgrade so it can do what it did before and can't use files created by the Adobe applications on my G5 as it isn't a universal binary application. That is only for 2 pieces of software, I haven't even considered the rest of my library....

Meanwhile my employers are trying to think of even more fiendish ways to pay me less for even more productivity. Think I'll just continue to save up for my next hardware upgrade and install SL on it too. Until the economy picks up enough to allow me to invest in new software suites.

If anyone can direct me to open source replacements for the above and other Mac OS standards I can't afford to buy, please do.

 

[Akula971]

Perhaps its my age or perhaps it is a state of mind. I saw it with my now deceased relatives, they reached a point or a realisation that they simply didn't need "more" or newer. What they had did what they wanted to do. I use both my Mac Pro and Mac mini to earn my daily bread, mostly the mini these days. I looked at the new mini, and thought it would knock the spots off my current model. But I simply just can't justify to myself spending that sort of money (core I7 and SSD) for something that can only be delivered with Lion.

Lion may have better security than Snow Leopard and lots of other good "under the hood" stuff. But the product has been denigrated with IOS features, that for a lot of people who use Macs in business neither want or need. We've been left behind by Apple, they know where the money is to be made and it's not in the mature market, but the new adopters.

Resistance is futile? Well I still use Win XP in parallels and Microsoft just can't seem to leave it behind as there are so many people who won't "Upgrade". Will that happen with Snow Leopard?

 

[osxabsd]

well, at least

Well at least Apple has not adopted the Microsoft OS marketing scheme of multiple versions of the same operating system (e.g., Windows 7 home, professional, ultimate, can opener, etc.). In server market, Microsoft has several W2008 versions, 32 bit/64 bit, standard that supports only 32G ram, and Enterprise which supports more than 32G. Even their server packs create different versions of the OS. At my work, some vendor-supplied products are certified on W2008 R2, but not on W2008 R2 SP1.

 

[halledise]

+1 for the Rosetta is a deal breaker for those of us too cheap to buy new Adobe CS and are still using databases built out of AppleWorks from circa 2000.
SL ain't broke I refuse to break all my stuff to fix it.
With 3 PowerPC based Macs still in daily use (Tiger running) and 3 Intel based Macs on SL I'm not going to destroy the connectivity and compatibility of my network.
Sucks to be Lion imho.

Lion sux
Apple have lost their way a tad methinks -
back to Snowy - the friendliest way forward

 

[Spartanets]

I upgraded to Lion, but it wasn't a necessity to do so.

Some of the features I find useful, particularly full screen apps which are a blessing on my MBP. I'm even starting to use Launchpad (shock horror!) but it needs a few updates and better customisation to make it truly useful. I love the new Mail. Safari and iTunes as well as some 3rd party apps seem much quicker. That said, in general navigation around the OS, I've seen more beachballs in the last week than I had ever seen in SL.

Lion is nice to play with but hardly a necessity, until Apple releases the next OS and says you need Lion to upgrade! The release of iOS 5 will make it more attractive if you own an iOS device.

 

[escalinci]

Anybody else miss the lozenge? It hid the toolbar in everything, now I'll have to learn a bunch of keyboard shortcuts in different apps.

I think mission control looks good, but I wonder if I can still just have a look at all the windows from the top application? I used to use F10 all the time for Pages + Bean, sometimes Preview.

Yes, the window opening animation annoyed me in Vista and it doesn't annoy me any less here. But I think you can disable it from the terminal.

The security features sound nice, I hope if I do upgrade the saving as versions doesn't let me get sloppy.