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At the moment I'll stick to my current tower Mac Pro setup. For first time Mac Pro users, the new 2013 Mac Pro may be fine. For current owners of older Mac Pros, there needs to be careful evaluation before deciding to migrate to the new 2013 MP and how huge will the adjustments be cost wise. We still don't know the pricing and how many models will Apple released on the new 2013 Mac Pro or will it be just one model with BTO options.

I would also observe first the performance of the 2013 since this is a first generation model, new hardware and most likely new OS 10.9. Maybe I may consider the second genearation if the update suits my needs
 
I think you're way over estimating bleeding and stability times

It's not Apple that concerns me. Although with anything out there that far on the bleeding edge, there will be issues. For what I do (audio), it's hard enough to get everything to play nice as it is. Since I had to survive "the day when hell froze over," I think my estimate could be realistic. I agree, for many uses, it may not take that much time to reach acceptable stability. We won't know until they ship. But even if they first ship with TB1, I'd definitely wait for TB2.

And thanks to the ScottishCaptain for the info on TB peripherals thermal management issues. Noisy fans are a big deal for me. I didn't know that, so I'll definitely add it to my issues list.
 
Knowing the completely new redesign is just around the corner?

Here's one man's perspective (I am a professional photo retoucher)

After seeing the new Garbage Can "Pro" mac (sic) last week...had to weigh consider both potential hardware, software issues and costs for the next 2-3 years.

I ended picking up a mint 1 year old 3.33ghz MP last week and loaded her up with 48GB ram, a 480GB OWC 6G exteme SSD boot drive, 4X4TB SATA black caviar drives.and 2X OWC 480GB PCI accelsior cards. (1 dedicated scratch for PS and one work drive).

My trusty 2x2.26 2009 machine (purchased new) is identically equipped (but 32GB ram of course) and will relegated to a back up machine. It has been well maintained and still runs flawlessly but the 6-core MP is better suited to
my needs.

I routinely work with large PS files (up to 18GB) and my experience with Lion and ML (CS 5.5 and CS6) = Kernel panics galore and frequent Photoshop crashes on any files larger than 2GB or so.

SL 10.6.8 and CS 5.5 are stable, fast, 99% crash free and an absolute joy to work with. (Didn't even know what a "kernel panic" was until I foolishly ventured into the Lion's den.) Thankfully having pristine back ups of my 10.6.8 HD made taking the SSD drive back to the promised land a piece of cake.

I will wait until the new MP has been out for a year or so and let Apple work out the inevitable hardware/software bugs before passing any judgement.

Also holding out hope Mavericks will a more serious and stable OSX for of us who have to depend on our workstations to make a living day in and day out. I know some of you will deride me for not accepting whatever the latest thing Apple serves up, but for now, I'll stick with what works.
 
Here's one man's perspective (I am a professional photo retoucher)

After seeing the new Garbage Can "Pro" mac (sic) last week...had to weigh consider both potential hardware, software issues and costs for the next 2-3 years.

I ended picking up a mint 1 year old 3.33ghz MP last week and loaded her up with 48GB ram, a 480GB OWC 6G exteme SSD boot drive, 4X4TB SATA black caviar drives.and 2X OWC 480GB PCI accelsior cards. (1 dedicated scratch for PS and one work drive).

My trusty 2x2.26 2009 machine (purchased new) is identically equipped (but 32GB ram of course) and will relegated to a back up machine. It has been well maintained and still runs flawlessly but the 6-core MP is better suited to
my needs.

I routinely work with large PS files (up to 18GB) and my experience with Lion and ML (CS 5.5 and CS6) = Kernel panics galore and frequent Photoshop crashes on any files larger than 2GB or so.

SL 10.6.8 and CS 5.5 are stable, fast, 99% crash free and an absolute joy to work with. (Didn't even know what a "kernel panic" was until I foolishly ventured into the Lion's den.) Thankfully having pristine back ups of my 10.6.8 HD made taking the SSD drive back to the promised land a piece of cake.

I will wait until the new MP has been out for a year or so and let Apple work out the inevitable hardware/software bugs before passing any judgement.

Also holding out hope Mavericks will a more serious and stable OSX for of us who have to depend on our workstations to make a living day in and day out. I know some of you will deride me for not accepting whatever the latest thing Apple serves up, but for now, I'll stick with what works.

Congrats on your new machine. It's the sweet spot. Yup the new Mac Pro will have new hardware with new OSX as it's the first gen so glitches and bugs may occur. As long as the current tower gets the job done at the end of the day and brings food on the table that works fine for me too.
 
I have had a Mac Pro in the past that was a dead end (early model) and later replaced it with a Mac Mini, 16 gigs RAM and an internal SSD. It serves my purpose well.

I'll most likely get the new "Mac Mini Pro" if they don't kill me on the pricing. Hopefully the lowest model will be affordable.
 
Congrats on your new machine. It's the sweet spot. Yup the new Mac Pro will have new hardware with new OSX as it's the first gen so glitches and bugs may occur. As long as the current tower gets the job done at the end of the day and brings food on the table that works fine for me too.

@Macsonic

Thanks, much appreciated.

The new (sort of) 6-core is a real sweetheart to work on. (and there's almost 2 years of Applecare left on her)

Like everyone else, waited with baited breath to see what Apple was going to do with the next gen MP. May very well turn out to be a great machine, but I have too much invested in my current equipment and software to make (what looks like to be) an uber expensive jump to changeover all my current SATA, SSD, PCI and firewire based drives to T_Bolt. Also just recently purchased 2 NEC PA301W 30 inch monitors that use native DVI-D connectors that will not be readily compatible with the new MP.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of peripherals/ram/expandability solutions OWC and the other third party vendors come up with.

As long as my clients and I can share files easily, will be totally content being a few years behind the curve...Guess a trip to the Apple store sometime late in 2015 is in order...
 
Only those who need internal expansion and those die-hard supporters of the older designs, also called: Traditionalists. Traditionalists are a type of pro user that resist change and still believe that the older models(think here, 2008,2009,2010-2012) will suite their purposes well into the future without having to give up for another model.

I think this is going be a Mac Pro for those who want change versus those who resist it. Me personally, I think the new Mac Pro is a nice design, but lacks certain things that I would like to see, such as upgradable CPUS, upgradable video, etc.. we simply don't know what is user replacable in this new form of Mac Pro.

But in the end I believe there will be two camps: Traditionalists and NEO-Pro Users who will jump on board with the new design.

I think that's a poor description for what's happening. It really isn't so much about something being new or old. I think most Mac Pro users wanted something new that would retain the value and flexibility the Mac Pro represents.

It's more about the planned obsolescence the new mac pro embodies. As others have said the iMac'ed version of the Mac Pro. Value vs Fashion.

Pro users pay a premium for power especially on a mac and they expect to get lasting value & flexibility out of that purchase. Bricking the graphics, dropping down the number of cpus and making all expandability a more costly and speed choking external only option are all things that reduce the life & flexibility of the product and therefore its value.

From reading posts the only people that seem dazzled by the new mac pro are the ones that are easily impressed by its speed bump. Did anyone expect a new mac pro - especially one with a 3 year wait - not to be exponentially faster than the old one?

The types that don't care about the new mac pro's disposability are likely
1) apart of a large business that will cycle its machines every 3 years or less regardless
2) aren't actually in the market to buy it but rather to proselytize everyone on how great it is because secretly or not it's their juvenile dream computer
3) have too much money and can waste it on a computer that has an inferior life cycle to previous mac pros which apparently doesn't bother them. But then when have fashionistas cared about what they buy going out of date too soon?

I don't see this new Mac Pro doing well at all. Most loyal Mac Pro owners seem to be holding on to what they have, buying old and planning to wait this out. Even if I liked the new mac pro (which obviously I don't) and wanted to buy it, I don't think I'd risk my money on this new design with the bugs I'm sure it'll have. The price will likely be as high or higher than previous Mac Pros so I don't think they are expanding its accessibility in that regard.

If in reality this is the only new Mac Pro we will be dealing with for the foreseeable future I think Apple has just fragmented their mac pro market more than anything else - provided none of the issues I mentioned are somehow addressed in future versions of it.
 
From reading posts the only people that seem dazzled by the new mac pro are the ones that are easily impressed by its speed bump. Did anyone expect a new mac pro - especially one with a 3 year wait - not to be exponentially faster than the old one?

And yet.....

Have a look at the front page story.

Latest & greatest 12 core iCan just got beaten by a 2009 with some 5690s dropped in. I guess this is why Apple wanted to kill expandability & upgradability, nothing worse than having 4 year old machines giving your new HooverMatic a run for it's money.
 
Most likely not going to buy. I need more control over expansion than the new machine will provide...


There are two glaring problems in my eyes:

1. Severely crippled I/O bandwidth due to the complete absence of traditional PCIe expansion. Thunderbolt in its current state (even TB2) WILL NOT replace this...period. Many post production professionals (such as myself) need specialized PCIe cards that simply bottleneck inside TB enclosures.

2. Even humoring a life of TB-only expansion, we still have a severe lack of TB devices, especially multi-bay drive enclosures. The only companies making multi-disk TB drive boxes right now are selling turn-key stuff, where you have no control over the disks that go into the array without voiding a warranty.


So, this basically leaves me with two options when it comes time to replace my aging 2008 Mac Pro: a) Pick up a used 2009-12 machine and upgrade the CPUs; or b) Build an Ivy-E based Hackintosh. Of course, there are factors to consider with that decision. The biggest one is genuine Apple stability at a higher cost versus a Hackintosh's lower cost and flexibility at the expense of potential headaches.
 
Most likely not going to buy. I need more control over expansion than the new machine will provide...

There are two glaring problems in my eyes:

1. Severely crippled I/O bandwidth due to the complete absence of traditional PCIe expansion. Thunderbolt in its current state (even TB2) WILL NOT replace this...period. Many post production professionals (such as myself) need specialized PCIe cards that simply bottleneck inside TB enclosures.

2. Even humoring a life of TB-only expansion, we still have a severe lack of TB devices, especially multi-bay drive enclosures. The only companies making multi-disk TB drive boxes right now are selling turn-key stuff, where you have no control over the disks that go into the array without voiding a warranty.

So, this basically leaves me with two options when it comes time to replace my aging 2008 Mac Pro: a) Pick up a used 2009-12 machine and upgrade the CPUs; or b) Build an Ivy-E based Hackintosh. Of course, there are factors to consider with that decision. The biggest one is genuine Apple stability at a higher cost versus a Hackintosh's lower cost and flexibility at the expense of potential headaches.

I also have the same predicament as you listed above. With regards to buying a used Mac Pro, there are sometimes good deals in eBay. There was a 2009 8 core 2.93ghz with 4870 radeon bidding and final bid went at $1,370 There was another seller who sold his 2009 Mac Pro Quad 2.66 together with his 30" alum ACD for only $800 for both. I guess you'll just have to be quick in buying as these bargains get sold quickly.
 
Most likely not going to buy. I need more control over expansion than the new machine will provide...


There are two glaring problems in my eyes:

1. Severely crippled I/O bandwidth due to the complete absence of traditional PCIe expansion. Thunderbolt in its current state (even TB2) WILL NOT replace this...period. Many post production professionals (such as myself) need specialized PCIe cards that simply bottleneck inside TB enclosures.

2. Even humoring a life of TB-only expansion, we still have a severe lack of TB devices, especially multi-bay drive enclosures. The only companies making multi-disk TB drive boxes right now are selling turn-key stuff, where you have no control over the disks that go into the array without voiding a warranty.


So, this basically leaves me with two options when it comes time to replace my aging 2008 Mac Pro: a) Pick up a used 2009-12 machine and upgrade the CPUs; or b) Build an Ivy-E based Hackintosh. Of course, there are factors to consider with that decision. The biggest one is genuine Apple stability at a higher cost versus a Hackintosh's lower cost and flexibility at the expense of potential headaches.

I'd go for #2
 
got a guy on craigslist to sell me his 12 core for 1700 i flashed a 680 that i got for 200 and put a 840 256 i had laying around i really think i came up on this purchase
 
From reading posts the only people that seem dazzled by the new mac pro are the ones that are easily impressed by its speed bump. Did anyone expect a new mac pro - especially one with a 3 year wait - not to be exponentially faster than the old one?

The types that don't care about the new mac pro's disposability are likely
1) apart of a large business that will cycle its machines every 3 years or less regardless
2) aren't actually in the market to buy it but rather to proselytize everyone on how great it is because secretly or not it's their juvenile dream computer
3) have too much money and can waste it on a computer that has an inferior life cycle to previous mac pros which apparently doesn't bother them. But then when have fashionistas cared about what they buy going out of date too soon?


Nah, think you forgot the crowd that can't do with a mini / iMac and aren't in the need for a dual cpu machine? That crowd ain't obviously the same people who you call 'pro' users. Pretty sure those exist , also they may be more 'silent' users. Is it a larger crowd than those exMacPro users thinking this one abhorrent? Couldn't tell you. Guess Apple did its math, tho.

Not going to defend or justify the decision Apple took, but I can see myself getting one - and hey, I won't invite my neighbors for a sneak preview into my studio. :D
But I can understand i.e. the audio folks, not knowing what to do with two GPUs except paying mucho...
 
Sorry, just trying to give a name for Pro users like you and myself - We would fall under Traditionalists. Traditionalists are those Pro Users who will continue to use the cheese grater Mac Pro as our main machines and upgrade based on our work loads.

Neo Pro Users = Those Pro Users who have made the jump or transition from the older Mac Pro technology to the new cylinder based Mac Pro.

You, myself, Tutor, goMac and others who still use the cheese grater based Mac Pros are traditionalists, for example.

No we will be called retro old skool Mac Pro users. hahaha

I will put my Mac Pro 2009 next to my Amiga 2000. ;)
 
For those of us with lots of info on internal drives it seems the new MP will require external enclosures. So that's an added cost, esp. if they are to be TB2.
 
This is why…

When I told my friends and pro advisors I was seriously considering a refurbished Nahalem from Apple, they laughed at me and advised me not to buy 3 year old technology.

And then the new Mac Pro was announced.

They are not laughing now. They are future proofing their cheese graters.
 
A Proud Retro Old Skool Mac Pro/Amiga/Atari User

No we will be called retro old skool Mac Pro users. hahaha

I will put my Mac Pro 2009 next to my Amiga 2000. ;)

My 2009 Mac Pro (which I've upgraded to 2012 standards) sits beside my overclocked Amiga 2000 with a Video Toaster card and they work in tandem for video production and my overclocked Atari 040 with SoundTools for music production. Why would I buy the current or 2013/2014 Mac Pro? Because I need a slower, locked down Mac? Not! In the future, I'll just continue to roll my own systems since Apple's doesn't give me what I want, but rather what Apple wants me to think I need, with little upgradeability.
 
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Over the years thousands of MP users where asking for an update, even asking for a complete re-design of the machine...complaining about outdated hardware (and don't get me wrong, i completely 100% agree on the outdated hardware). The contradict in all this is that now that we actually have a completely new design soon to be released everybody's saying "oh well, i'll stick with my current MP and just upgrade it to meet todays standards".

Question: Wasn't this or isn't this the entire core idea of the MP in the first place? The fact that its a machine that one could update/upgrade for years to come? So why was everybody asking for a new machine? Just upgrade the old one and spent probably an equal or less amount of money on the upgrades to create a machine thats completely up-to-date for todays standards.

For example if the soon to be released MP has a price tag of 2500$, invest the 2500$ into new hardware parts (CPU, graphicds card, SSD...) that way you might come very close to the to be released MP's performance, not only do you get to keep the old upgradable format but you won't have to go the Hackintosh route.

With all this in mind, was there really need for a complete new MacPro? Can't help but think about the saying "Be careful what you wish for".
 
I was thinking about it, and I almost talked myself into a 12 core 5,1 model -- but now, firmly, no. Not with USB3 and Thunderbolt coming to the new gen. Ultimately those protocols are going to be important to me over the long term, even if they aren't right now (I've always used my machines for at least 4 years). I've never taken advantage of PCI expansions in any meaningful way, and internal HD bays are just a drop in the bucket of my overall storage situation.

I think if I bought a 5,1 now it would address some of my immediate needs, but would require replacement in a couple years, and a couple years isn't good enough. I don't want to be stuck with firewire 800 and USB2 for the next 4 years.
 
Only those who need internal expansion and those die-hard supporters of the older designs, also called: Traditionalists. Traditionalists are a type of pro user that resist change and still believe that the older models(think here, 2008,2009,2010-2012) will suite their purposes well into the future without having to give up for another model.

I think this is going be a Mac Pro for those who want change versus those who resist it. Me personally, I think the new Mac Pro is a nice design, but lacks certain things that I would like to see, such as upgradable CPUS, upgradable video, etc.. we simply don't know what is user replacable in this new form of Mac Pro.

But in the end I believe there will be two camps: Traditionalists and NEO-Pro Users who will jump on board with the new design.

All that to say, some people will like it and buy it and some people won't.
 
I'm tempted to pick up a 2009 MP for $800 and up the firmware and CPU to a 3.33 six core $615 but I'd still need a cheap slave PC(noise issues) for the sample libraries.

It sounds like the new Mac Pro will be able to do it all. Just a 6.5X 9.9 form factor with a quiet external multi drive box, an audio/midi interface and VE Pro 5. I'd use my 2011 iMac for the display and as a back up machine.

Price?
 
The types that don't care about the new mac pro's disposability are likely
1) apart of a large business that will cycle its machines every 3 years or less regardless
2) aren't actually in the market to buy it but rather to proselytize everyone on how great it is because secretly or not it's their juvenile dream computer
3) have too much money and can waste it on a computer that has an inferior life cycle to previous mac pros which apparently doesn't bother them. But then when have fashionistas cared about what they buy going out of date too soon?

#2 made me laugh. I think there's a lot of this going on in the forums.

I suppose I may be in #3, but I like tinkering with my computers so much that I can't stand the thought of a non-upgradeable system :(

I think you're right that most current MacPro users are going to sit it out initially. Most non-Pro owners are likely to be waiting with bated breath, only to have their breath taken away by the price when it is announced. Whether the new Pro sinks or swims will depend on:

1) Performance (20% speed increase won't cut it)
2) Peripherals - thunderbolt peripherals are going to need to explode and get a whole lot cheaper
3) Price - most Pro users are willing to pay a lot of money for a machine that will last a while, and is upgradeable. I, for one, will not pay a bunch for a 3 year computer if it is not very upgradeable.

A few months ago, I got a 12-core 2.4 ghz. I figure I can upgrade it as I need to for years.
 
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