Anyone have a monitor that can run in RGB color mode with Mac Mini M1?

[86Dylan86]

Not entirely unexpected, YUV (YPbPr) is standard for TV signals. A lot of what I'm reading from the Eizo page on this falls into this category. It's as if the M1 is badly assuming TV signals for HDMI, even when the display can do full range RGB, it goes into a limited range YUV mode. Very weird.

The main issue that can really bite you with YUV is chroma subsampling. Where you have 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 instead of 4:4:4. As long as it's 4:4:4, odds are very good you won't be able to see a difference between YUV and RGB. But subsampling shows up as false color in text as the most obvious issue. Far worse than the sort of false color you get from subpixel anti-aliasing. But this chroma subsampling is one of the ways digital video saves space, and folks don't notice it there.

There are other issues like that of incorrect color space (sRGB vs P3 vs Adobe RGB being the obvious ones), or brightness range that can create other problems though. Both of these are covered in the Eizo page linked above.

But at least in my case, I'm using DisplayPort (since I can't drive my UW @ 120Hz without it), and haven't noticed either form of issue with my M1 Mini.

My ViewSonic VP2468A seems to go into limited range YUV when set to auto Color Format via DisplayPort, when I select RGB things are discoloured completely as mentioned by others, furthermore I can access YUV Full range which corrects some of the saturation and contrast issues, also text is bit clearer. I should mention I'm working in REC. 709 for basic video editing work which is a TV standard as it is. I wonder where YUV is also within a somewhat similar standard what the color comparison to RGB would look like in terms of loss and accuracy represented within YUV full range over RGB.

 

[Krevnik]

I wonder where YUV is also within a somewhat similar standard what the color comparison to RGB would look like in terms of loss and accuracy represented within YUV full range over RGB.

YUV vs RGB is more like Polar vs Cartesian coordinate systems. You can represent the same color in both, easily enough.

It’s the fact that YUV separates out luminosity from color that makes it useful in video compression. Reducing how much color information is there (4:2:2 or 4:2:0) saves a ton of data.

 

[JTravers]

I picked up a Dell P2721Q to try and it works great with my 2016 15" Intel MBP.

With the M1 it displays no picture whatsoever, I tried the included USB-C to C cable as well as a 3rd-party USB-C to DisplayPort cable.

This is surprising, since my P2715Q works perfectly over both DisplayPort (using a USB-C to DP cable) and HDMI. Hope you find a solution.

 

[aednichols]

This is surprising, since my P2715Q works perfectly over both DisplayPort (using a USB-C to DP cable) and HDMI. Hope you find a solution.

My Apple Thunderbolt 3 cable 0.8m arrived today and now the M1 displays video on the monitor.

I have no idea why Thunderbolt would fix this given it's a DisplayPort monitor; perhaps just a higher quality cable.

Unfortunately it's still in YPbPr.

 

[global-citizen]

My Apple Thunderbolt 3 cable 0.8m arrived today and now the M1 displays video on the monitor.

I have no idea why Thunderbolt would fix this given it's a DisplayPort monitor; perhaps just a higher quality cable.

How are you then converting from the Thunderbolt cable to DisplayPort?

 

[aednichols]

How are you then converting from the Thunderbolt cable to DisplayPort?

Works directly. Thunderbolt port on Mac to USB C input on monitor.

 

[Donza]

My Dell U3219Q which I couldn't get to display RGB previously, now went to RGB mode in 11.2 Public Beta using USB-C connection.

 

[aednichols]

My Dell U3219Q which I couldn't get to display RGB previously, now went to RGB mode in 11.2 Public Beta using USB-C connection.

Oooh! Promising.

 

[Donza]

Oooh! Promising.

I double checked my Dell display settings and only thing I have enabled via OSD is Smart HDR = Reference (however I don't have HDR enabled from macOS display preferences, so essentially I'm not in HDR mode). If I switch Smart HDR off it goes back to YUV. HDR setting didn't enable RGB back with 11.1 so clearly some improvements.

 

[aednichols]

Another interesting data point on U2721Q:

The display is rated to supply 65 watts of power over USB-C.

With the included USB-C cable my 2016 MBP gets only 60w. With the Thunderbolt cable that bumps up to the expected 65w.

 

[Mistercharlie]

HDR setting didn't enable RGB back with 11.1 so clearly some improvements.

I have the same monitor, and I can get it to display RGB over USB-C in 11.1, using the HDR trick.

 

[pldelisle]

I have the same monitor, and I can get it to display RGB over USB-C in 11.1, using the HDR trick.

Does it work over HDMI too?

 

[joanbcn91]

Wow! Today I bought the Apple A2119 adapter. Now I can select the HiDPI resolution of 3008 x 1692. But more importantly: the LG OLED 48CX shows me the Mac Mini M1 with RGB output instead of YPbPr! So I am delighted!

48CX with PC Mode of course

 

[aednichols]

Wow! Today I bought the Apple A2119 adapter. Now I can select the HiDPI resolution of 3008 x 1692. But more importantly: the LG OLED 48CX shows me the Mac Mini M1 with RGB output instead of YPbPr! So I am delighted!

48CX with PC Mode of course

Interesting, I suppose I could try that for my P2721Q. Though I do really hate dongles hanging off the side of my notebook.

 

[joanbcn91]

48CX shows RGB 8b. Not 10bit (imagine it is a limitation of the USB-C/HDMI or Mac?)

 

[aednichols]

48CX shows RGB 8b. Not 10bit (imagine it is a limitation of the USB-C/HDMI or Mac?)

Ugh why does mid-high end displya hardware still have so many compromises in 2021?

 

[joanbcn91]

It's strange. Although the LG OLED 48CX displays RGB 8b, the video tests appear to display 10bit correctly. What is your opinion?
This guy has realized more tests: https://singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-hdr-10bit-billion-colors/

On SwitchResX it's show me "Billions of colors" activated.
Maybe the M1 not output real 10bit, as the 48CX shows RGB 8b, but 10bit seems to display whit less banding (not perfect like true 10bit output).

 

[Krevnik]

On SwitchResX it's show me "Billions of colors" activated.
Maybe the M1 not output real 10bit, as the 48CX shows RGB 8b, but 10bit seems to display whit less banding (not perfect like true 10bit output).

But is the 48CX a true 10-bit panel, or is it 8-bit with FRC?

 

[joanbcn91]

But is the 48CX a true 10-bit panel, or is it 8-bit with FRC?

Yes, of course. The 48CX Freesync information shows me "RGB 8b TM". It seems to be correct and it means that it supports 10Bit really.

 

[Bachibouzouk]

I finally found a way to display RGB on my beloved DELL U2413 (99% of Adobe RGB) that served me for photo editing for many years on my Mac Mini late 2012 through HDMI.
I was (like most of you) banging my head on the wall after having purchased a Mac mini M1 to replace my old faithful but ageing previous mini.
Images were crappy, highly contrasted and looked grainy and noisy, despite calibration that showed perfect color results (Adobe RGB = 100% DCI_P3 = 94%)
Having read that the new mini M1 forced monitors to be seen as TVs when connected to HDMI, I purchased an USB-C to DisplayPort hoping it will solve the problem.... Nope. And whatever connection was used my DELL constantly reverted to YPbPr instead of RGB on my previous old mini (and also my daughter’s MBook Pro).
I brought the M1 to an Apple service center that checked it for potential hardware default but confirmed it was perfectly operational and they couldn’t reproduce the issue on high end monitors they had available....

I was about to return that ?@&%@ machine when I stumbled on an old HDMI to DVI-D adapter forgotten in a desk drawer.
Remembering that the DELL U2413 still has this legacy DVI-D connector I gave it a try, and BINGO !! RVB is back again and the brilliant colorful well defined images are shining again !

 

[ArPe]

It's strange. Although the LG OLED 48CX displays RGB 8b, the video tests appear to display 10bit correctly. What is your opinion?
This guy has realized more tests: https://singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-hdr-10bit-billion-colors/

On SwitchResX it's show me "Billions of colors" activated.
Maybe the M1 not output real 10bit, as the 48CX shows RGB 8b, but 10bit seems to display whit less banding (not perfect like true 10bit output).








View attachment 1721863 View attachment 1721864

It means the dithering to simulate high color is very good.

The MBP displays always are 8 bit with dithering. Many HDR displays are 8 bit + FRC dithering.

Just to remind everyone, you can’t show a billion colors on a screen. That’s the palette available not how many colors can be shown simultaneously because there are no displays with a billion pixels ??

A 4K display has over 8 million pixels so that’s how many individual colors they can display. The human eye has trichromatic vision and can see about 10 million colors. A tetrachromat can see 100 million colors but that is a very rare condition.

A typical image or video has far less individual colors. Sometimes a photo has little as a few thousand colors.

 

[global-citizen]

Just to follow up. I have a Dell U2713HM and the very useful info on these threads delayed my M1 Mac purchase because of the washed out colors issue.

Putting together a few tidbits of info from reading around the subject, I discovered that DVI only supports RGB, so figured it must be the solution.

I found this adapter Club 3D (CAC-1510-A), which at approx $43 from Amazon wasn't cheap but I figured it was cheaper than buying a new monitor. There are 2 models sold, HDCP on/off, changeable with a firmware update (e-mail support to obtain it). I have the HDCP off model and haven't had any issues.

Bingo! It works perfectly with my new M1 Mac Mini. Full 2560x1440 at 60Hz (make sure you use a decent Dual Link DVI cable from the adapter to the monitor). The monitor shows RGB and has normal bright colors, as expected.

I tested with a CableMatters 8K USB-C to Display Port cable and can confirm it makes the monitor go into YpBbr mode and the colors are washed out.

The only minor thing I've noticed was that in some applications (e.g. Google search results in Firefox) the font looked a bit blurry.

I fixed it with this Terminal command/setting

defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 0

You can verify this has worked (or check before) with

defaults -currentHost read -g AppleFontSmoothing

To delete (revert to default OS setting) use

defaults -currentHost delete -g AppleFontSmoothing

Reboot after applying.

This vastly improved the font clarity (I tried a few values 0, 1, 2). It's not perfect, but is absolutely usable now.

Hope this helps someone else and thanks for everyone else's valuable information

 

[decat]

Hi all,

Today I got myself a new monitor (Dell U2520D) to use in the home office.
Before using it in the home office I decided to hook it up to the MacMini M1. As expected it ran in YPbPr, connected with the Dell supplied USB C cable. Tried hooking it up to the Caldigit TS3 via Displayport = same result.
Also tried running it via HDMI where Big Sur recognized the monitor as 4K so I had to scale it down but still the same problem.

Then I remembered having an unused USB C cable and gave it a try = RGBINGO!

Smart HDR is on, haven't tried it without it yet.
It's a cheap one and can be found on Amazon, see link below.

NIMASO USB C zu USB C Kabel 1M 3.1 Gen 2 Unterstützt 100 W PD Aufladung,10 Gbit/s Datenübertragung, 4K-Videoausgabe,kompatibel mit Thunderbolt 3,MacBook Pro,MacBook air,iPad Pro,iPhone 15,Galaxy S23

NIMASO USB C zu USB C Kabel 1M 3.1 Gen 2 Unterstützt 100 W PD Aufladung,10 Gbit/s Datenübertragung, 4K-Videoausgabe,kompatibel mit Thunderbolt 3,MacBook Pro,MacBook air,iPad Pro,iPhone 15,Galaxy S23

www.amazon.de

 

[aednichols]

Hi all,

Today I got myself a new monitor (Dell U2520D) to use in the home office.
Before using it in the home office I decided to hook it up to the MacMini M1. As expected it ran in YPbPr, connected with the Dell supplied USB C cable. Tried hooking it up to the Caldigit TS3 via Displayport = same result.
Also tried running it via HDMI where Big Sur recognized the monitor as 4K so I had to scale it down but still the same problem.

Then I remembered having an unused USB C cable and gave it a try = RGBINGO!

Smart HDR is on, haven't tried it without it yet.
It's a cheap one and can be found on Amazon, see link below.

NIMASO USB C zu USB C Kabel 1M 3.1 Gen 2 Unterstützt 100 W PD Aufladung,10 Gbit/s Datenübertragung, 4K-Videoausgabe,kompatibel mit Thunderbolt 3,MacBook Pro,MacBook air,iPad Pro,iPhone 15,Galaxy S23

NIMASO USB C zu USB C Kabel 1M 3.1 Gen 2 Unterstützt 100 W PD Aufladung,10 Gbit/s Datenübertragung, 4K-Videoausgabe,kompatibel mit Thunderbolt 3,MacBook Pro,MacBook air,iPad Pro,iPhone 15,Galaxy S23

www.amazon.de

Interesting data point, but cannot reproduce. I tried the USB 3 C-to-C cable that came with my Samsung T7 portable SSD.

 

[decat]

Not all USB C cables support video throughput. I highly doubt Samsung would provide such cable with an external drive.