iPad Anyone miss the old Apple lineup?

[oldmacs]

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that this lineup was easier to understand. That’s all! Not that these products were objectively better, just the lineup was simple.

 

[JM]

Not if your primary metric is light and pocketable.

The iPhone form factor peaked with the 3GS.

Fair enough. Priorities differences, for sure.

You prioritize weight; while I prioritize the telephoto lens and premium build materials (which lends to more weight, of course).

I would love to have a smaller Pro, around mini size, but that may be a fools errand since the mini can’t cool itself off as well as larger iPhones and the three lenses might be impossible.

Actually what would be pretty awesome is if they made the wide camera 48mp so that you could at least get the 2x zoom. 3x is super nice on the pro since it zooms in real good, but I think I could get by with a 2x zoom.

Maybe one year they’ll bring back the mini with a 48mp lens… or give the SE a wide with 48mp and an extra ultra wide lens.

 

[BhaveshUK]

The iPod started with one model and matured to 4 variants by 2010 based on customer use cases under Steve Jobs tenure. The same thing has happened with iPad and iPhone over the past decade.

The Mac lineup is largely the same quantitatively speaking.

 

[JM]

It's still there. In the US carriers will basically give you an iPhone 14 if you trade in or add a new line.

*for a three year “contract” that exists as paying for that “free” phone through bill credits every month. If you leave the carrier you have to pay off the rest of the full retail amount… thus the carrier is paying you monthly to stay with them.

 

[darngooddesign]

*for a three year “contract” that exists as paying for that “free” phone through bill credits every month. If you leave the carrier you have to pay off the rest of the full retail amount… thus the carrier is paying you monthly to stay with them.

Yes. The comment I replied to mentioned the old cheap iPhones which were subsidized with a contract.

 

[JM]

Exactly.

“Do you want a mini iPad? No? Scratch off iPad mini.

Do you want the most expensive, most advanced iPads? No? Scratch off the Pros.

Do you want an iPad with an old fashioned Home Button? No? Scratch off iPad 9.

Do you care about a nicer display or a magnetically connected Pencil? No?
Great, you’ll enjoy the new iPad 10. Which color do you like and how much storage do you want?”

It’s asking a series of questions about what people actually care about in their iPad purchase, as in features, size, and price.

It’s a lot easier decision making process to ask “do you want an iPad or not? Do you prioritize affordability or weight? (iPad and iPad Air)”

Do you want a laptop? Do you prioritize performance or weight or price? (MacBook pro, MacBook Air, Macbook)

There that was much simpler.

 

[JM]

Yes. The comment I replied to mentioned the old cheap iPhones which were subsidized with a contract.

I know not correcting you. Just adding info for anyone reading that might falsely believe that we get free iPhone over here in ‘Merica.

 

[darngooddesign]

I know not correcting you. Just adding info for anyone reading that might falsely believe that we get free iPhone over here in ‘Merica.

Gotcha yeah.

 

[macsound1]

It’s a lot easier decision making process to ask “do you want an iPad or not? Do you prioritize affordability or weight? (iPad and iPad Air)”

Do you want a laptop? Do you prioritize performance or weight or price? (MacBook pro, MacBook Air, Macbook)

There that was much simpler.

Agree with this 💯
As a previous Apple Retail employee, it was easy to have the conversation about MacBook vs Pro vs Air
College student - Macbook
College student in a graphics program - MacBook Pro

It is incredibly muddled now, partly because there’s currently no 27” iMac so if the 24” doesn’t suit your needs, you’re basically going to spend 2x on the Mac studio.
But iPads, there’s a price point for everyone with confounding intricate gotchas for every model

 

[Mainsail]

Can’t easily make out which laptop to buy.

Can’t easily make out which iPad to buy.

It used to be more clearly defined between options.

I would say iPhone is easy now, but only because a $200 difference in price makes the upsell to pro a no brainer.

I agree the iPad line-up has become cluttered. Especially, the difference between the new iPad and the Air.

I don't think the laptop lineup is all that confusing. If you want an everyday laptop for home, college, or office, get the MBA. If you want a laptop for coding or video editing, get the Pro.

With the M1 MBA and the M2 MBP, Apple is just offering budget versions of the above to clear out inventory of older models.

 

[RinkDinkus]

I think too many people have FOMO and that’s what makes the lineup so confusing to some.

 

[darngooddesign]

Especially, the difference between the new iPad and the Air.

The Air is more powerful, with more RAM, a better screen, better pencil, and different keyboards.

The iPad 10 is less expensive.

 

[navaira]

You would need to be pretty dense to go on their website and not work out what you want, by either price or features.

You're assuming all Apple users understand what a GPU or a laminated display is. Their most popular model is (apparently) the 13" Macbook Pro because many people internalised that Air wasn't fast enough for Zoom calls, so now they spend extra €400 (in Europe, obviously) for the fast enough for Zoom, finally emojibox. My accountant chatted me up a few months, saying "I have €4000 to spend to qualify for this-or-that tax reduction, so I'm getting a Macbook Pro, should I buy 32GB RAM and 2TB drive, or 16/4TB, and what's Macbook Max?" (She's going to mostly use it for Excel and to watch YouTube.)

I miss the days of Macbook/Macbook Pro, iMac/Mac Pro, iPhone/iPhone Pro. Now that they updated the "base" iPad I'd have no idea what to say to someone asking me whether to choose this one or Air. I'd have to actually look up the specs and reviews, then answer "whichever's cheaper." And with Max, Pro, Plus, Ultra, and… Extreme? CPUs… I'm missing something… well, I don't know which is which. I looked at Wikipedia just now and my first thought was "why isn't 'Max' the maximum?"

– sent from my M1 Macbook Air which is faster than a Mac Pro but if it was an M2 it would be slower than M1 Pro and/or Max, I think

 

[darngooddesign]

...Now that they updated the "base" iPad I'd have no idea what to say to someone asking me whether to choose this one or Air.

The Air is more powerful, with more RAM, a better screen, better pencil, and different keyboards.

The iPad 10 is less expensive.

 

[antiprotest]

I don't want to return to the old lineup, but I would like the current one to be simplified and made more customer friendly in terms of prices and features.

However, from the business perspective, the company has to find the equilibrium to maximize the margins and volumes, to exploit the customers as much as they can. To use honest expressions rather than virtue-signaling terms, at the end of the day a business is about manipulating and exploiting customers for self-gain, and that is what Apple has been doing.

This equilibrium would be a point where the customers are angry and frustrated but still willing to pay. I think Apple's lineup has been trying to find that point. I am not sure how close they are to the equilibrium, but you do see more customers angry and frustrated, and still paying.

 

[JM]

Not if your primary metric is light and pocketable.

The iPhone form factor peaked with the 3GS.

No no, I’d say the 5 (not 5s!) was peak iPhone. The touchID took away that nice concave home button 🤤

Although…. That shiny black iPhone 7 was pretty nice 😱

 

[JM]

I don't want to return to the old lineup, but I would like the current one to be simplified and made more customer friendly in terms of prices and features.

However, from the business perspective, the company has to find the equilibrium to maximize the margins and volumes, to exploit the customers as much as they can. To use honest expressions rather than virtue-signaling terms, at the end of the day a business is about manipulating and exploiting customers for self-gain, and that is what Apple has been doing.

This equilibrium would be a point where the customers are angry and frustrated but still willing to pay. I think Apple's lineup has been trying to find that point. I am not sure how close they are to the equilibrium, but you do see more customers angry and frustrated, and still paying.

True.

I got angry at the non-pro line of iPhones and bought a 256gb 14pro. That’ll show ‘em!!!

Coming up next is this peasant glass Apple Watch. Stainless steel for me next time, baby! Those gaudy aluminum midnight and starlight colors just won’t do.

Black black black.

 

[cateye]

I think too many people have FOMO and that’s what makes the lineup so confusing to some.

Because people conflate what they want or desire with what they actually need. If you start from a baseline of "what problems do I need to solve, what capabilities matter, what specifications are most important," you can drill down through a product matrix 10x more complex than anything Apple could ever cook up.

But, people don't do that. They buy into Apple's aspirational marketing and consistently desire beyond what they really need. And as Apple grows its product spread, it creates barrier after barrier for people to stick with base-levels. Every product has multiple upsells. Don't buy the basic iPad, buy the new basic iPad! Only $100 more...

Reject the notion that you are defined by the baubles you buy, and suddenly Apple's product lineup becomes a piece of cake.

 

[zerocharlie]

Rose colored glasses and wishful thinking. There were compromises *everywhere* in that lineup.

The 13" laptops were still on C2D despite Arrandale being out. C2D in 2010 was already looking pretty crusty - the Penryn chips they were selling were 2+ years old.

The 15" MBP had a standard 1440x900 screen. You had to pay extra for the 1680x1050 panel, and antiglare was also extra.

Amusingly, despite being a newer CPU generation, the Intel chipsets in the 15/17" Pros were capped at 8GB of RAM. The 13" non-Air models with Nvidia chipsets could run 16GB.

Both 2010 Air models had no backlit keyboard, the only generation not to.

The original iPad was kneecapped from the start by only having 256MB of RAM, which meant it dropped iOS support just two years later with 5.1.1, while the iPhone 4 with the same A4 chip but double the RAM got software through iOS 7.1.2 in 2014.

They did the same storage shenanigans with iPods then as they've done since with iPhones and iPads - the Touch was 8/32/64GB, and going from 8 to 32 was just $70 more. It also had a crap "Retina" display that wasn't up to par with the iPhone 4.


The Mac Pro? That thing still had SATA II ports, when the SATA III spec had been final for over a year. It was already just a speed bump of the 4,1 - enough so that you can flash a 4,1 to thinking it's a 5,1. Not a great look for a pro tower.

Mac mini had the highest base price of a Mini up to that point.


This isn't to say it was total trash - it's to say that they've *always* had compromises and tradeoffs in the lineup. Did they *need* the polycarbonate MacBook for $999 when they had the 13" Pro for $1199 - and the Pro came with 4GB of RAM standard instead of 2, plus an aluminum case and backlit keyboard and FireWire? I bet those were lively debates back then too, about like people today asking why the $449 iPad exists when then the Air 5 has double the RAM for just $150 more. 😄

Everything you said is totally true. But I think you nuked it.

It’s not that Apple used to offer a lineup without compromises, it’s that their lineup used to make more sense for the consumer. Yes, there were fewer options, but it was just a simpler time when you were looking for consumer electronics. You kinda new which product would best meet your needs. Now it’s a bit more of a head scratcher for many.

 

[JM]

Because people conflate what they want or desire with what they actually need. If you start from a baseline of "what problems do I need to solve, what capabilities matter, what specifications are most important," you can drill down through a product matrix 10x more complex than anything Apple could ever cook up.

But, people don't do that. They buy into Apple's aspirational marketing and consistently desire beyond what they really need. And as Apple grows its product spread, it creates barrier after barrier for people to stick with base-levels. Every product has multiple upsells. Don't buy the basic iPad, buy the new basic iPad! Only $100 more...

Reject the notion that you are defined by the baubles you buy, and suddenly Apple's product lineup becomes a piece of cake.

That’s the thing though…. It used to be that drilling down to what you “need” was much simpler choice.

Nobody wants to spend money unwisely, and to make a wise choice requires mental gymnastics.

Before it was: buy Apple or not buy Apple.

Now it’s: buy this Apple or that Apple, but not that Apple, THIS Apple, but only if you don’t care about this Apple, but NEED this Apple, but only if you want to spend more money on this Apple, if not buy THIS Apple, but you’re going to have to buy this OTHER Apple if you want something particular, but then you’re going to miss out on the feature of this OTHER Apple, so you should consider that Apple.

Ad nauseum, around and around you go trying to decide.

And then end up not 100% satisfied unless you spend the most money on their best product.

Case in point: I bought a 256 GB 14pro and couldn’t be happier. But it’s also cost $1099 retail…. Could I have gotten a 14? No, because the telephoto lens was a must.

Like wise I’m sure I would throw fits with an MacBook Air with only two usbC ports, while the pro has all the ports… but also $800 more dollars. 🤷

 

[cateye]

That’s the thing though…. It used to be that drilling down to what you “need” was much simpler choice.

Nobody wants to spend money unwisely, and to make a wise choice requires mental gymnastics.

Before it was: buy Apple or not buy Apple.

Now it’s: buy this Apple or that Apple, but not that Apple, THIS Apple, but only if you don’t care about this Apple, but NEED this Apple, but only if you want to spend more money on this Apple, if not buy THIS Apple, but you’re going to have to buy this OTHER Apple if you want something particular, but then you’re going to miss out on the feature of this OTHER Apple, so you should consider that Apple.

Ad nauseum, around and around you go trying to decide.

And then end up not 100% satisfied unless you spend the most money on their best product.

I understand and respesct your position, but believe you're still describing wants not needs. "...but you're going to miss out..." If you need that feature, then buy the product that has it. If you don't need it, then how are you missing out?

If money is the primary consideration, then features don't matter. Buy the baseline, or don't buy Apple at all—buy a product that provides better value.

I reject the notion that product complexity in and of itself is a barrier. People's unwillingness to do the work to separate wants from needs is the only thing that makes it complex. If anything, the more broad a product matrix, the more likely you can find the sweet spot.

 

[Lakersfan74]

Easy for me to decide. Only the Pro iPhones and iPads from here on out since that’s my budget. I just have to decide what size I want.

 

[BarredOwl]

Those were good times. Late 2010 Apple store. No compromises anywhere. Sure, iPads have evolved from what they once were, but still – did it have to become what it is now? View attachment 2098838

These were the best days with Apple.

 

[JM]

I understand and respesct your position, but believe you're still describing wants not needs. "...but you're going to miss out..." If you need that feature, then buy the product that has it. If you don't need it, then how are you missing out?

If money is the primary consideration, then features don't matter. Buy the baseline, or don't buy Apple at all—buy a product that provides better value.

I reject the notion that product complexity in and of itself is a barrier. People's unwillingness to do the work to separate wants from needs is the only thing that makes it complex. If anything, the more broad a product matrix, the more likely you can find the sweet spot.

There is study that shows that the less options a person has, the easier and faster that person is able to make a choice.

 

[Xand&Roby]

I miss the time of the G4.