App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[CarAnalogy]

That's BS, if the stores in this state are any example.

Google three tier system. Brewers aren’t allowed to distribute.

It is possible state or local laws have altered it somewhat in your area. Or maybe you just got lucky and have really good stores, or just shop at good stores. If you’re talking about major chains though I’m surprised.

ChatGPT has made me lazy. Here. Google for more detail. The shelf stuffing is the work of the distributors. It’s like factory farmed chicken. Maybe your stores don’t do it but all the big ones do.

ChatGPT
The three-tier beer distribution system in the US involves three distinct layers:

1. Brewers or Importers: This is the first tier, consisting of the companies that brew or import beer.
2. Distributors: The second tier is made up of distributors who buy beer from the brewers and then sell it to retailers. These distributors may be independent or tied to specific brewers.
3. Retailers: The third and final tier includes bars, restaurants, liquor stores, and supermarkets that sell beer directly to consumers.

This system, established after Prohibition, aims to prevent monopolies and encourage moderation by separating the production, distribution, and retailing of beer.

ChatGPT
The three-tier system can result in the "shelf stuffing" of Budweiser products due to a few key factors:

1. Market Power of Large Brewers: Large brewing companies like Anheuser-Busch InBev, which owns Budweiser, have significant market power. They can offer incentives or discounts to distributors, which may encourage them to prioritize Budweiser products over smaller brands.
2. Distribution Relationships: Some distributors might have long-standing relationships with big brewers like Anheuser-Busch. These relationships can lead to a greater focus on pushing their products in the market, often at the expense of smaller or craft breweries.
3. Volume Incentives: Big brewers often provide volume-based incentives to distributors. The more Budweiser products a distributor sells, the better the pricing or terms they might receive, leading to a push for greater shelf space in retail outlets.
4. Limited Shelf Space: Retailers have limited shelf space, and with distributors focusing on major brands, smaller or less well-known beers can struggle to find shelf space.

This system can lead to a market where big-brand beers dominate retail spaces, making it challenging for smaller breweries to compete effectively.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Some of these people are acting like they are putting their lives in jeopardy every time they use a PC or Mac.

The way I see some people use computers, they really are. They click on anything that comes up and believe anything the computer tells them.

 

[SpotOnT]

It‘s about software-based platforms - that sometimes withhold useful hardware functionality from users and developers.

How is an iPhone different from a Playstation, XBox or Switch? Aren’t they also software-based platforms?

Why shouldn’t people be able to sideload games onto the Playstation or XBox? Isn’t Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo withholding hardware functionality from users/developers?

I honestly don’t see any difference and would love to understand why this law doesn’t apply to game consoles.

 

[Zest28]

How is an iPhone different from a Playstation, XBox or Switch? Aren’t they also software-based platforms?

Why shouldn’t people be able to sideload games onto the Playstation or XBox? Isn’t Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo withholding hardware functionality from users/developers?

I honestly don’t see any difference and would love to understand why this law doesn’t apply to game consoles.

You can sideload on the Xbox Series X, it has a BluRay drive build into it. You can buy games from any physically store and install it on your Xbox Series X using the BluRay drive.

Besides, the Xbox Series X is sold at a loss and Microsoft make their money from games sold through their store and GamePass. If the EUSSR did this, the Xbox Series X would cease to exist.

 

[deevey]

I’ve never gotten a virus and I don’t pay for antivirus either…

Congratulations, you are reasonably tech savvy!

Have any of your friends, family members or acquaintances ever gotten a virus or malware?

Is it possible that any of the above have ANY of your personal data, photos, phone numbers, birthdays, social media profiles, chats etc. stored on their devices?

Being the best driver doesn't mean you wont be killed by some other idiot.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Was just making the numbers up when writing this (well, based on the Dutch dating app decision and its aftermath, I think) and hadn't read this:

U.S. Developers Can Now Offer Non-App Store Purchasing Option, But Apple Will Still Collect Commissions

Apple is making major changes to its U.S. iOS App Store policies, and developers are now able to direct customers to a non-App Store purchasing...

www.macrumors.com

But yeah... feeling pretty prescient right now. 😂

That is absolutely ridiculous, and no one will ever use it with the “commission” they’re charging…

Here’s hoping the US actually does their job and breaks up the App Store monopoly that Apple has… it’s just getting ridiculous.

 

[DanTheMan827]

How is an iPhone different from a Playstation, XBox or Switch? Aren’t they also software-based platforms?

Why shouldn’t people be able to sideload games onto the Playstation or XBox? Isn’t Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo withholding hardware functionality from users/developers?

I honestly don’t see any difference and would love to understand why this law doesn’t apply to game consoles.

They certainly should, but game consoles are not essential to everyday life, nor do they have a large enough user base for the companies to be considered gatekeepers.

Game consoles sell what? Maybe 150 million units worldwide in an entire generation if they’re lucky?

Apple probably sells more than that for every generation of iPhone they make, and all of those devices are forced to use the App Store…

 

[dk001]

All of my apps are directly from the Play Store despite having the option of using Galaxy Store and Amazon App Store and whatever app stores there. The only app that I have side loaded is AdGuard Pro, which blocks ads globally. It's pretty amazing to never have any ads in any browsers and.

You are missing out on some really good or needed apps.
Like Camera Assistant.

Do you use Secure Folder? Wish we had that in iOS.

 

[Philip_S]

Only apps on the Mac App Store have to be sandboxed, sideloaded apps like Spotify and Discord can happily upload my SSH private keys to wherever they want.

The argument for that is that without apple verifying the sandbox manifest the developers could just add a request to access ~/.ssh_keys and hope users don’t notice, but there’s no fundamental reason why apple couldn’t let you attach your own sandbox rules to an app (perhaps even adding additional constraints to App Store apps) - you can do that in Xcode for your own applications, so the only extra effort for apple would be the UI to set up the sandbox permissions on first use.

 

[Philip_S]

The screen shot of movies is not coming back. That is an os feature preventing screen shots of certain video types being captured. If you go to you tube for example you can screen shot normal videos but if playing paid content then nope. iOS provides api for devs to block it but does require certain video types being activately played. I wish they would extend that API to anything if an app wants to block screen shots from being taken

They should not: my device is supposed to belong to me, not to the app developers and it should do what I tell it to do, not what they want it to do.

 

[Philip_S]

They could for example …r add in limitations to devices that have been jailbroken, eg no more Apple Pay. This is an Apple Service which they would be within their rights to remove access to. Apple like to make it as difficult as possible to leave the ecosystem on the hardware side so why should software be any different?

They could do that if the Commission hadn’t thought of that before writing the rules.

 

[Philip_S]

If I were apple I'd be saying ok go for it... install what you want. All this side load apps will be siloed and have no access to anything that requires Apple's api's... No photo access, no files etc. They get input, Connection, screen and volume controls, thats the lot.

The DMA specifically forbids that, because they thought of it as quickly as you did.

Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo... they going to be forced to open up next?

Hopefully, although as they’re smaller they’re less important.

 

[bengi]

quite interesting and kind of weird: the EU commission forces us experts to use a cumbersome Microsoft proprietary thing to log onto the system, for the sake of coherence…

 

[Philip_S]

It’s $99 yearly to access the tools for code signing apps for iOS. The license fee for them.

You could write your own signing tool, since the signatures use standard algorithms and EU law explicitly allows decompilation etc for the purposes of compatibility so you can find out which files are included and in what order, but the $99/year is needed to get your certificate signed by Apple.

 

[Philip_S]

Thank you for that uneducated opinion but if a device is compromised and iMessages can be read by this hacked side-loaded software than a compromise exists allowing the hackers to read those messages.

Yes, but my iMessages also go to my Mac which has mostly side-loaded apps running on it, so there’s only an extra vulnerability if you only communicate with people with iPhones but not macs and someone in the conversation is important enough to actually be read but not important enough to target with Pegasus or similar.

 

[SpotOnT]

They certainly should, but game consoles are not essential to everyday life, nor do they have a large enough user base for the companies to be considered gatekeepers.

Game consoles sell what? Maybe 150 million units worldwide in an entire generation if they’re lucky?

Apple probably sells more than that for every generation of iPhone they make, and all of those devices are forced to use the App Store…

They are gatekeepers in their market. I mean there are - realistic speaking - only three companies that control the entire console gaming market. Don’t see why they aren’t treated as gatekeepers and forced to open their hardware up to everyone.

 

[deevey]

That is absolutely ridiculous, and no one will ever use it with the “commission” they’re charging…

Here’s hoping the US actually does their job and breaks up the App Store monopoly that Apple has… it’s just getting ridiculous.

A 3% reduction in the price of IAP's for a highly popular game like Fortnight would have netted Epic a saving of over 20,000,000 dollars.

With their kind of sales volume, they could probably negotiate a rate of sub 0.5% per transaction with a different CC processor.

Thats no small amount!

 

[MilaM]

Now that we know how Apple will deal with the fallout from the court case in the US, I think it was a good decision to force side-loading and alternative app stores.

 

[makitango]

This will compromise iPhone security.

Some apps will not submit to the App Store in order to drive all sales to their outside store to increase profits.

Others apps will stay outside to avoid Apple review process. Bugs and deliberate surveillance will run rampant.

Fake apps will proliferate outside with no oversight.

Welcome to your diminished privacy and acct security world.

Big mistake EU. Big.

So this same sideloading behaviour has compromised macOS security for decades? I suppose macOS' Gatekeeper has never existed then.

I love a government telling me what I can and cannot buy.

I bought an iPhone, in large part, for the security and convenience of all apps coming from a single verifying source.

Now it’s going to become the same Balkanized nonsense that Android is.

Thanks, Europe.

As if your government doesn't control what goes in and out. You are buying exactly what the government wants you to buy unless you head over to the black market.

No one was stopping you from buying an Android this entire time.

You chose to embrace the walled garden by buying Apple. Now all of us are going to be forced to endure multiple different app sources with varying and unknown security.

Who says we embrace the walled garden by buying Apple? It only means it is the less bad option. If I get kidnapped and my kidnapper tells me I can live but I have to choose which finger will be cut off, do I embrace the "choice"? No I don't have to. The kidnapper has to let me go because it's illegal and Apple has to let us go because it's illegal as well, at least where I live.

You've never needed an App Store on your computer to ensure your security or privacy.

And if you want to install apps exclusively through the App Store, nothing prevents you from doing that, does it?

It's just more choice for you, the user. You don't have to change anything if you don't want to.

How exactly is that a bad thing for you?

And by the way, Apple has done an extremely bad job at preventing malicious and fake apps in the past.

How are so many people that love to go on about the importance of freedom so hell-bent on defending the corset Apple forces them into?

I guess too many people drank the Apple Kool-Aid.

I think the person you are replying to is deployed here to project an opinion from a third party to the audience. I say this because I think he already knows all your points and tries to steer around them to maintain his position.

There is a lot of money in play which Apple will not get in the future but instead, it will be with the developers. So a lot of people who are not consumers do a lot of things to try to prevent this.

 

[Ctrlos]

A 3% reduction in the price of IAP's for a highly popular game like Fortnight would have netted Epic a saving of over 20,000,000 dollars.

With their kind of sales volume, they could probably negotiate a rate of sub 0.5% per transaction with a different CC processor.

Thats no small amount!

The Epic case is largely misunderstood. At the time of breaking the rules, mobile (iOS, Android, Switch) accounted for less than 15% of Fortnite Revenue. Most iOS players were just continuation accounts and not new. My assumption would be Apple accounting for less than 4% of revenue. PlayStation platforms accounted for over 60% or revenue and Epic still pays Sony a 30% fee.

Why didn't they sue Sony into getting the Epic store on consoles?

Sony are an investor in Epic and lots of games use UE5. Epic aren't daft enough to bite the hand that feeds them.

But Apple are still the biggest company in the world. If they sue and win they can leverage that win against other closed platforms (ie consoles) and those holders have no leg ot stand on. It was never about getting Fortnite back on iOS.

 

[makitango]

The way I see some people use computers, they really are. They click on anything that comes up and believe anything the computer tells them.

No bad actor will invest a crapload amount of time to write a malicious app and spend a crapload amount of money to outrank established apps and bet on the chance that someone changed the settings in System Settings to allow sideloading and then right-click your app, and go to System Settings again to click on allow and password entry, while also only enjoy an open window of being signed software for a few hours, when they can just send you an SMS or email from the contact data that is freely available on the black market, and ask you to sign in on their "legitimate" page.
All the bad actors injected bad apps into the App Store because no user had to go through any of this lenghty process, and people got their victims. As a matter of fact, the way sideloading is working, I would even consider it the more secure choice.

How is an iPhone different from a Playstation, XBox or Switch? Aren’t they also software-based platforms?

Why shouldn’t people be able to sideload games onto the Playstation or XBox? Isn’t Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo withholding hardware functionality from users/developers?

I honestly don’t see any difference and would love to understand why this law doesn’t apply to game consoles.

They are a gaming console designed for one singled-out leisure activity with only few participants in general demographics, as compared to practically everyone owning a smartphone and be subject to either iOS or Android. I can guarantee to reach anyone via their phones, not via their (mostly non-existent) consoles.

The DMA specifically forbids that, because they thought of it as quickly as you did.


Hopefully, although as they’re smaller they’re less important.

Do you know how long he thought about it and how long the DMA (and their collective members) thought about it? Your message being in opposition doesn't mean that your opposition did not investiate it thoroughly.

They are gatekeepers in their market. I mean there are - realistic speaking - only three companies that control the entire console gaming market. Don’t see why they aren’t treated as gatekeepers and forced to open their hardware up to everyone.

They are enjoying an audience in a leisure-only industry which is low on count vs an audience in an omnipotent industry which is high on count.

 

[Krizoitz]

It anyone took (and kept) away your choice, it's Apple here.
Certainly not standing up for consumers.

Also, having less choice isn't "having choice".

No, Apple gave me a choice. The iPhone model. Google gave me a second different choice, the Android model. And I CHOSE between them.

Now the EU (and people like you) want to take that away and force us to have no choice, to be stuck with ONE model, no matter whether we want to or not.

And yes, “less” choice can be a choice.

I chose a car with automatic transmission. That’s “less” choice than if I went with manual. Why? Because the “choice” it offered wasn’t useful to me and the advantages were.

Just like the iPhone.

I don’t WANT multiple App stores. I want one, one I can trust. One that has specific standards. If you want something different, no problem! Make a choice. BUY AN ANDROID.

Instead you want to force everyone to do it your way. Less choice where it actually matters. Bravo.

 

[5232152]

I’m pretty tech savvy. Side loading isn’t a problem for me. I’d probably never use it. I can’t wait to hear the complaints start rolling in that ‘my iPhone has a virus’, ‘my iPhone just bricked because of a malicious app’, ‘my iPhone has been hacked and all my credit card info has been comprised’, etc, etc, etc. I’ll just laugh and go along my way.

My iPhone is the most important piece of tech that I have. It helps with my job, my communication, my getting around in unkown places, paying for items when I’m out and about, etc. I’m not taking chances of being somewhere and this device breaks in my most time of need. If my computer is compromised or has a virus, ehh, I still have a computer in my pocket and I’ll survive. The difference is my home computer isn’t in my pocket and needed by me multiple times a day.

Give people side loading and warn them, and then ignore all the complaints and don’t support them when they break their phone. I’m just an old fart and this is just my opinion. It won’t affect me in any way, but boy am I glad I don’t work for Apple technical support any longer. What a nightmare.

I’ve been a computer nerd since the 80’s and I just don’t care about reliving any of those nightmares because of malicous entities and I’ve have had to fix hundreds of computers because of malicious software over the years. <end of rant> LOL

If all it takes is the ability to side load and app for CC to be stolen then you have a (very!) serious OS issue. Blaming. That being said, I feel that side loading will expose all the places iOS code is broken faster than in any point in time, which benefits everyone.

 

[I7guy]

So this same sideloading behaviour has compromised macOS security for decades? I suppose macOS' Gatekeeper has never existed then.

The scale is quite different and scale matters. Over 1B iOS users vs how many on Mac?

As if your government doesn't control what goes in and out. You are buying exactly what the government wants you to buy unless you head over to the black market.

Who says we embrace the walled garden by buying Apple?

Your purchase says that. You may not like it, but you buy a device and all that comes with it.

It only means it is the less bad option. If I get kidnapped and my kidnapper tells me I can live but I have to choose which finger will be cut off, do I embrace the "choice"? No I don't have to. The kidnapper has to let me go because it's illegal and Apple has to let us go because it's illegal as well, at least where I live.

Bad, bad analogy.

I think the person you are replying to is deployed here to project an opinion from a third party to the audience. I say this because I think he already knows all your points and tries to steer around them to maintain his position.

Appeal to authority fallacy?

There is a lot of money in play which Apple will not get in the future but instead, it will be with the developers. So a lot of people who are not consumers do a lot of things to try to prevent this.

So you think. It could be a race to the bottom with malware, scamware and postwar, copycat apps etc. unregulated competition is worse than what there is today.

 

[deevey]

The Epic case is largely misunderstood. At the time of breaking the rules, mobile (iOS, Android, Switch) accounted for less than 15% of Fortnite Revenue. Most iOS players were just continuation accounts and not new. My assumption would be Apple accounting for less than 4% of revenue. PlayStation platforms accounted for over 60% or revenue and Epic still pays Sony a 30% fee.

Why didn't they sue Sony into getting the Epic store on consoles?

Sony are an investor in Epic and lots of games use UE5. Epic aren't daft enough to bite the hand that feeds them.

But Apple are still the biggest company in the world. If they sue and win they can leverage that win against other closed platforms (ie consoles) and those holders have no leg ot stand on. It was never about getting Fortnite back on iOS.

I was only using Epic as an example of just how much a "small" 3% commission drop could be worth to one of the big App players