Apple Cancels Electric Car Project

[Surf Monkey]

No it’s a company car but purchased by the company, not a lease. We still only keep cars for 3 years, always been our rotation.


I haven’t met anybody who has had a battery failure or a significant mechanical failure yet with an EV. Maybe they are not suited to the American market, but oh well eh? Not something I need to worry about really, and America has always been a unique market for cars. There’s a reason Tesla is the first American brand to produce cars for its domestic market and become globally popular after 100 years of companies trying. Before companies like Ford had to make foreign variants to break other markets as American cars often failed Euro NCAP testing and were inefficient and too big. Trucks are less common here too so it’s not a comparison I can even comment on or pretend to be interested in to be honest. EV’s are more common now in Europe and we have a lot more choice than Americans, not to mention a faster growing market. They’ll become a time where the US will run out of import options once European marques start making only electric, but hey, no big deal as the cars we make are too small for you guys anyway.

The Luton fire was caused by a faulty 12v battery, the same component found in every ICE vehicle. Nothing fishy about that really, a lot of ICE vehicles catch fire compared to EV’s, but there is much less propaganda surrounding it.

If in 10 years EV’s have not become a norm, you can tell me whatever you want, but i’ll be driving whatever is available. It’s not like either of us will really care, do you think?

You can’t even get a stick shift on the vast majority of cars here in the US. It’s true. Our car market is very different. Stupider in my opinion, but YMMV.

 

[bigheaddoug]

It never had a chance.

Needs to be on its charger and at least 50% charge for firmware updates.

I need to tell you, I have had a positively terrible day and this post made me laugh out loud. Thank you.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You can’t even get a stick shift on the vast majority of cars here in the US. It’s true. Our car market is very different. Stupider in my opinion, but YMMV.

I get the impression manuals are seen as a bit of a novelty in the US. I’ve been driving manuals for 25 years and it’s only recently I’ve fancied an auto. Everybody here passes their test in a manual as they’ve always been the standard and the default discipline for passing a driving test. People who used to take tests in automatics were usually people who struggled with manuals or had failed many tests as a result. There are much fewer driving instructors here offering automatic lessons I think.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I get the impression manuals are seen as a bit of a novelty in the US. I’ve been driving manuals for 25 years and it’s only recently I’ve fancied an auto. Everybody here passes their test in a manual as they’ve always been the standard and the default discipline for passing a driving test. People who used to take tests in automatics were usually people who struggled with manuals or had failed many tests as a result. There are much fewer driving instructors here offering automatic lessons I think.

Automatic is beyond default. There are only a few cars that have a standard manual option and fewer still that have a manual transmission as a special order. Everyone here takes their driving test in an automatic.

I’ve driven a stick exclusively for over 40 years. I strongly dislike automatic transmissions. American drivers are lazy.

 

[1129846]

So I’m assuming you lease? My point is you can’t brag about long term reliability/costs if you never own one long term.


Yes, there are a few 10 year old EV’s on the road. But just like when buying a 1 year old EV you have no way of telling the condition of that battery. There are very few S’s on the road around me. Not like there use to be. My observance is as anecdotal as yours. Not sure why you’re asking but my sister and brother in-law have owned a Leaf, a 3, and a Y. The also own an Infinity for when they actually have to go somewhere. The 3 with the twin motor is a really fun toy, but I would never own one. (I’ll buy a Ducati Scrambler when the kids are out of the house and I want to have some fun.) I coach and play hockey with two guys who own 3’s. Oh and I also owned a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid. I will never make that mistake again. Does that grant me permission to comment on this?

That Luton incident is a bit odd. An exploding diesel vehicle? Diesel is not a fuel that typically “explodes”. Ironically it is believed to be the electrical system that caught fire. Hmmm. Electrical systems causing fire… 🤔 Oh well on to the next point….

I‘m not here to argue about consumer rights and all that other gibberish. I’m here to state that EV’s will not survive in the US. Electric F-150’s and that Tesla truck thing are completely useless at doing truck stuff. I’ve helped my buddy with his Tesla when range anxiety came in to play. We travel distances here that make EV’s impractical. They’re fine for taking grandma to the grocery store and to church, and a toy for people with money to waste.

Problem is in 5-10 years when we have a bunch of EV’s that aren’t worth anything, you won’t be around to tell you I told you so. In the meantime you’ll have to look at the values of used ones today to see where we’re headed. You can buy a “really good” EV for dirt cheap.

Lets see on the truck stuff we are not there yet but it is getting closer and give it a few more years.
The range issue that is being solved as the DC fast charging is being built out (chicken and egg problem) I have taken my Mach E on multiple long range trips. not going to lie I have falling back to our spare ICE a few time but it more lack of DC fast charging for my car on some of the trips but it has been reduce over the past few years as more chargers get on line.

As for depreation of EV when you factor in the tax credit low and behold they are right in line with OMG standard cards. The newest change is the 25k cap on used cars and that did some extra number.

Now the rest of your post. Got it you hate EV and just going to spread BS about them to justify your hate and chances are be willfully ingorante.
Remember most people dont tow. Rememeber most people who own F150 and trucks use them as huge people movers and never tow a thing. Most F150 are never used as anything but a people mover and never as a truck. Range axiality is going to go away as more fast chargers are built out.

 

[1129846]

I'm reading all the arguments both for and against BEVs and I am sorry it just comes to price period.

I pay 270 a month six year no interest for my 2019 Santa Fe and I was curious what the Ioniq 5 would look like.

Five year is the only no interest option, but the payments are over 600 a month even after putting down 15K.

Who is saying they are saving money? I mean gas is not costing more than 100 bucks a month. I have done a brake job once with rotors and that's still something you have to do with a BEV and I do my own oil changes that only cost 25-30 bucks every 5,000 miles. I could likely pay to have my oil changed and still not get close to the 330 a month more in cost at any point. The Ioniq 5 is also a smaller car.

I just don't get it.

Depends how you look at it. I bought my Mustang mach E in 2021. It was 57-58k before tax credits. There were 7500 of tax credit at the time so I got that back come taxes the following year. The other cars I was looking at where around 50k. In my case I was comparing the Mustang Mach E vs Honda Pilot Elite and Honda Passport Elite. Those 2 cars were around 50ish at the time. Yes I got a smaller vehicle but I will say the Mach E is nicer on the inside and rides nicer than them. Biggest thing is I ended up with a smaller car. I own a top of the line 2017 Santa Fe Sport and I can promise you the Mach E is light year more comfortable of a car to drive. My wife and I dread if we have to fall back to the Santa Fe for a long road trip.

Either way we were comparing simuler priced cars. So tell me at that rate the equations change. Slightly smaller car that is more comfortable or a bigger car. you are comparing the Inconic 5 vs Santa Fe. If the Ioniq 5 is anything like the Mach E you are comparing 2 very different types of cars in quality.

Right now my Mach E cost me 3-4 cents a mile in power. My Santa Fe cost 10-12 cents a mile in terms of gas. Mach E less maintainces. Santa Fe I need it to get an oil change in right now and is on the list. I also have to go to a gas station every few weeks on the Santa Fe. Mach E I just plug it in. No extra effort. There is a reason the Santa Fe has been reduce to only doing 4k miles a year vs the Mach E 10-12k a year.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Automatic is beyond default. There are only a few cars that have a standard manual option and fewer still that have a manual transmission as a special order. Everyone here takes their driving test in an automatic.

I’ve driven a stick exclusively for over 40 years. I strongly dislike automatic transmissions. American drivers are lazy.

I remember a relative of mine came over for a holiday in the late 90’s and my Dad lent him a 1996 Audi A4 manual to save him renting a car. I’ll always remember his face when he sat in it and asked if it was a manual lol. My dad had to take him out in it and show him how to drive it and he was especially nervous. We’re all used to different things I suppose.

It’s a skill my kids will probably never learn and they won’t believe we all used to actually drive cars with gears, a skill that will soon be lost to the history books.

 

[dmr727]

It’s a skill my kids will probably never learn and they won’t believe we all used to actually drive cars with gears, a skill that will soon be lost to the history books.

I always said that what really attracted me to my (now) wife was that she was driving a manual Civic when we met. As rare as manual vehicles are the US, women that drive stick (outside of rural areas at least) are a small subset of even that!

 

[nacinla]

Maybe they can shift some of those engineers to solving the Apple Mail issue I reported in January 2022 and they still haven't solved.

 

[Tagbert]

I’m guessing you’re not an engineer or have no common sense.
Electric cars use 8X more carbon to produce, are very expensive and it’s just getting more expensive since the materials to make batteries are not abundant. Have you seen the destruction a mine does?

Even the best batteries don’t last more than 8 years and the value of your car goes to nothing (look how much a used Nissan Leaf costs).

Electric vehicles have no torque. Range goes by half or a third when pulling weight.

Ranger anxiety…

I can go on and on but this I’m sure many will be triggered from their high horses thinking they’re saving the environment by virtue signaling.

This is hilarious. It’s like the greatest hits of completely clueless anti-EV FUD. I applaud your sarcasm.

 

[Tagbert]

Apartments are a form of housing, and can be owned. Pretty much everyone living in a major city lives in an apartment, which they may or may not own.

Anyway, your quoted number doesn’t make sense. When I google home ownership in the US, it says 66% of Americans own their home.

A home can be a detached house, an apartment, a townhouse, a mobile home, etc

Yes, it can be hard to get data, as the definitions of types of housing are all over the place. Here are some stats broken down by number of units and not population though they are probably a good proxy for each other. This does not address ownership. Again, hard to get comprehensive data.

United States Housing Statistics

United States NumberPercent Total housing units115,904,641100.0UNITS IN STRUCTURE1-unit, detached69,865,95760.31-unit, attached6,447,4535.62 units4,995,3504.33 or 4 units5,494,2804.75 to 9 units5,414,9884.710 to 19 units4,636,7174.020 or more units10,008,0588.6Mobile home8,779,2287.

www.infoplease.com

In this data set,
1-unit, detached at at 60%
20 or more units are at 8.6%
I haven’t added up the multi-unit stats.

In the urban cores, there are higher percentages of apartments, but you soon get into the rings of suburbs and those make up the largest area of most cities. There single family houses tend to dominate.

 

[danny842003]

Imagine that. You see more of something now than you did when they didn't exist a few years back. I'm shocked.

Your response makes absolutely zero sense.
You claimed nobody wanted them I asked you to explain why that seems to be false when compared to my lived experience.

 

[danny842003]

I'm reading all the arguments both for and against BEVs and I am sorry it just comes to price period.

I pay 270 a month six year no interest for my 2019 Santa Fe and I was curious what the Ioniq 5 would look like.

Five year is the only no interest option, but the payments are over 600 a month even after putting down 15K.

Who is saying they are saving money? I mean gas is not costing more than 100 bucks a month. I have done a brake job once with rotors and that's still something you have to do with a BEV and I do my own oil changes that only cost 25-30 bucks every 5,000 miles. I could likely pay to have my oil changed and still not get close to the 330 a month more in cost at any point. The Ioniq 5 is also a smaller car.

I just don't get it.

Not everyone lives in America. Other countries tax petrol to pay for healthcare etc so the savings are there.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Imagine that. You see more of something now than you did when they didn't exist a few years back. I'm shocked.

So you’re shocked people are seeing lots of EV’s on the roads and the data suggests this is increasing by the week, yet you claimed ‘nobody wants them’. What a strange way to look at things. It’s a bit like an Android user claiming ‘nobody wants an iPhone’ when clearly a certain percentage do.

You might not want a car full of technology, but don’t assume the millions that do share your sentiment.

 

[Razorpit]

Basically, at least in America, we’re still in the early adopter stage.

The world is in the early adapter stage. Governments can mandate all they want. Doesn’t mean the market can or will respond.

You can’t even get a stick shift on the vast majority of cars here in the US. It’s true. Our car market is very different. Stupider in my opinion, but YMMV.

See there’s something we can agree on. I prefer manuals over automatics any day of the week. While it’s true the options are limited, you’re never going to get one in an EV. 😉

Lets see on the truck stuff we are not there yet but it is getting closer and give it a few more years.
The range issue that is being solved as the DC fast charging is being built out (chicken and egg problem) I have taken my Mach E on multiple long range trips. not going to lie I have falling back to our spare ICE a few time but it more lack of DC fast charging for my car on some of the trips but it has been reduce over the past few years as more chargers get on line.

As for depreation of EV when you factor in the tax credit low and behold they are right in line with OMG standard cards. The newest change is the 25k cap on used cars and that did some extra number.

Now the rest of your post. Got it you hate EV and just going to spread BS about them to justify your hate and chances are be willfully ingorante.
Remember most people dont tow. Rememeber most people who own F150 and trucks use them as huge people movers and never tow a thing. Most F150 are never used as anything but a people mover and never as a truck. Range axiality is going to go away as more fast chargers are built out.

So I’m right on a lot of stuff, but anything else I mention that you don’t like is BS? 😄

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The world is in the early adapter stage. Governments can mandate all they want. Doesn’t mean the market can or will respond.

Of course the World is in the early adoption stage. Based on my own country as an example, there were just 2.5k EV's on the roads in 2013. In 2021 there were 396k, in 2022 664k, 2023 978k and as of January 2024 there were 1.02M.

There are 33.3M registered cars (Including EV's) on Britains roads, but the adoption rate is picking up fast. Sure the 2035 directive where ICE cars will no longer be manufactured and be allowed to be sold in the UK and the EU will drive the adoption rate higher closer to the time. You say the market doesn't have to respond and you're right. But, people will have to keep their cars until they fail and in the meantime fuel prices and annual tax will rocket, and fuel stations will start to be converted to charging hubs.

Car companies have been investing billions in electric and converting lines and facilities to get ready for the shift, I doubt they are going to suddenly scrap all that and revert back.

See there’s something we can agree on. I prefer manuals over automatics any day of the week. While it’s true the options are limited, you’re never going to get one in an EV. 😉

I drive a manual diesel 2.0 Audi as my daily driver and after 25 years driving manuals, I am more than ready to make driving a bit easier. One pedal driving, adapative cruise and distance control are all things my wife enjoys in her EV and I think I have done my time with manuals. It would be a bit pointless have a stick in an EV seeing as there is no transmission and you'd be incapable of moving through the gears in the time it takes for an EV to reach 60mph. The instant torque is very handy indeed.

 

[Razorpit]

Oh and you could probably blame California EPA for the death of manual transmissions. In an effort to meet tighter MPG restrictions, automobile manufacturers had to fine tune transmissions so that they stay in the peak output band of the engine. This meant more gears. No one wants a 9 speed manual.

That and the iPhone. Hard to text and drive a manual. 😉

 

[cocky jeremy]

So you’re shocked people are seeing lots of EV’s on the roads and the data suggests this is increasing by the week, yet you claimed ‘nobody wants them’. What a strange way to look at things. It’s a bit like an Android user claiming ‘nobody wants an iPhone’ when clearly a certain percentage do.

You might not want a car full of technology, but don’t assume the millions that do share your sentiment.

Almost no one wants them. Better?

 

[cocky jeremy]

Your response makes absolutely zero sense.
You claimed nobody wanted them I asked you to explain why that seems to be false when compared to my lived experience.

How does it not make sense? Of course you see more of them now than before. They didn't exist years ago. You're not going to see something that doesn't exist.

 

[1129846]

Oh and you could probably blame California EPA for the death of manual transmissions. In an effort to meet tighter MPG restrictions, automobile manufacturers had to fine tune transmissions so that they stay in the peak output band of the engine. This meant more gears. No one wants a 9 speed manual.

That and the iPhone. Hard to text and drive a manual.

There are things to blame CA for but that might only be part of it as aCA noise restriction is another one where cars are set up to have a slight power down over a certain range. The biggest issue is cars are now powerful enough that tire and wind noise can cause them to fail the test as they can get fast enough to do it.

That being said manual are dying because of fuel efficiency and let’s be honest they are faster and better. I love driving a manual and miss driving one. I don’t care about the efficiency part or it being slower but I do recognize that a modern auto can beat me a human in every measure and metric. Top it off they can add more gears which only makes it worse as it can stay in the power band even better but they are no where near as fun to drive.

If I had my way I would own a v-8 GT manual mustang as a spare fun car.

 

[danny842003]

How does it not make sense? Of course you see more of them now than before. They didn't exist years ago. You're not going to see something that doesn't exist.

😂 deflect, deflect.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Almost no one wants them. Better?

‘Almost nobody wants them in an America’, a country only just catching the rest of the World up in the use of contactless payments. Nobody wants to pay with Apple Pay eh? Except the millions that do.

It’s like saying nobody takes a picture of themself with Turkey teeth, except the ones that do all over Instagram.

 

[AppleCarEnthusiast]

I am starting to regret my decisions.

 

[yegon]

I remember a relative of mine came over for a holiday in the late 90’s and my Dad lent him a 1996 Audi A4 manual to save him renting a car. I’ll always remember his face when he sat in it and asked if it was a manual lol. My dad had to take him out in it and show him how to drive it and he was especially nervous. We’re all used to different things I suppose.

It’s a skill my kids will probably never learn and they won’t believe we all used to actually drive cars with gears, a skill that will soon be lost to the history books.

Haha!

My car is a 1998 Audi A4 diesel that I've had since new in '98, so your story made me chuckle.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Haha!

My car is a 1998 Audi A4 diesel that I've had since new in '98, so your story made me chuckle.

I have a 2015 A4 diesel manual now as my daily driver, great cars. Loved the Audi’s back then, my Dad had quite a few and still drives an Audi. Got memories of his Audi 80 which was a cool car. I’d imagine he got the gearbox checked over on his A4 after that American crunched his way through it for 2 weeks lol.