Apple CAN’T do AAA gaming [Merged Megathread]

[Sheepish-Lord]

I would be curious how long it takes take to develop a game for Metal. World of Warcraft runs native on the M1 and is supposed to be amazing so was that a port or a rebuild of sorts?

Sadly games that were popular and worked well as cross platform like Rocket League up and left Mac as well so unless you have a big budget like Blizzard logistics wise it doesn’t make sense.

Personally I think it would be a smart move because it would require people to buy more storage and memory which Apple charges a ton for so more money for them!

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Developers have been given the gift of the M1, probably the most important thing to happens since like Core i7 and no one seems to care? It at last is a capable integrated solution that doesn't throttle and doesn't use much battery.... But again no one seems to care. Apple don't seem to care either, they should be the ones making the push and they've done nothing. If anything they've just pushed developers away with the whole Epic Games thing....

Is gaming on MacBooks ever gonna happen? We used to be able to do the whole Bootcamp thing, but not anymore.

Are u ***** Serious? Apple was NEVER and Has NEVER made Computers for Gaming. Even the M1 are Machine for Media Production and Media Enjoiment. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN PURPOSELY BUILD FOR GAMING.

 

[Jack Neill]

I use game pass streaming on my M1, works great. Not for everyone but it works.

 

[leman]

I would be curious how long it takes take to develop a game for Metal. World of Warcraft runs native on the M1 and is supposed to be amazing so was that a port or a rebuild of sorts?

Not any longer than to develop a game using any other contemporary API. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if developing with Metal is quicker since the API is more streamlined and conceptually simpler than Vulkan or DX. Metal can be intuitively understood by anyone with decent background in C++: it's basically just structs, pointers and templates. Vulkan and DX12 instead are full of opaque concepts (already descriptors are a brain-wrecker) and awkward APIs.

Are u ***** Serious? Apple was NEVER and Has NEVER made Computers for Gaming. Even the M1 are Machine for Media Production and Media Enjoiment. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN PURPOSELY BUILD FOR GAMING.

Another one who confuses the wall and the wallpaper. Apple GPUs are extremely efficient high-performance rasterisers. They offer primitive/rasterisation/shading performance of discrete GPUs that consume three to four times more power.

And what does "PURPOSELY BUILD FOR GAMING" even mean? Having flashy LEDs or ugly decals? Or drawing more than 200 watts of power? Gaming is all about performance, GPU performance, CPU performance, memory performance, SSD performance. Each and every M1 Mac has plenty of those.

 

[kpluck]

It doesn't take years to port though.

A good quality port, fully optimized for the M1, will take some time. From a game developer's perspective, that time would be better spent on developing games for the x86 Windows platform, or consoles, which have much larger profit potential.

-kp

 

[Deguello]

Are there feature-identical Mac gaming peripherals like programmable mice, keyboards, and keypads? I know some devices work to some extent but if I want to utilize something fully — say Razer Tartarus or even one of their keyboards or mice — on a Mac does anyone offer such things?

 

[Zdigital2015]

Developers have been given the gift of the M1, probably the most important thing to happens since like Core i7 and no one seems to care? It at last is a capable integrated solution that doesn't throttle and doesn't use much battery.... But again no one seems to care. Apple don't seem to care either, they should be the ones making the push and they've done nothing. If anything they've just pushed developers away with the whole Epic Games thing....

Is gaming on MacBooks ever gonna happen? We used to be able to do the whole Bootcamp thing, but not anymore.

The market isn’t big enough, the major publishers only care about sales numbers and the platforms that support that are 1)Windows 2)Consoles 3)Mobile and that’s just not going to get any major game dev to waste time and money porting to macOS. This whole subject is like Don Quixote tilting at the windmill. At some point reality sets in or delusions pervade forever.

 

[diamond.g]

The market isn’t big enough, the major publishers only care about sales numbers and the platforms that support that are 1)Windows 2)Consoles 3)Mobile and that’s just not going to get any major game dev to waste time and money porting to macOS. This whole subject is like Don Quixote tilting at the windmill. At some point reality sets in or delusions pervade forever.

The stupid part is if you support mobile you have to support iOS and if you do that you basically get macOS support for free, yet where are all the AAA mobile games?

 

[leman]

This whole subject is like Don Quixote tilting at the windmill. At some point reality sets in or delusions pervade forever.

Markets are not static. They change over time. I’m confident that there is a bright future for Mac gaming ahead. It will just take time.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

The stupid part is if you support mobile you have to support iOS and if you do that you basically get macOS support for free, yet where are all the AAA mobile games?

Mobile games are simply there for “pay to win.” AAA developers do exist such as WB Games with Injustice and Mortal Kombat. High performance games such as Genshin Impact are probably the most notorious currently but it eats a lot of storage, uncomfortable to play for long periods which is required and is pay to win as well.

People will pay $60 for a console/pc game filled with micro-transactions, each is 60GB+, but you can play for long periods on the couch or desk and online. Mobile games can’t do any of those things so they have to make their money with pay to win and everyone dislikes that as well. Apple Arcade comes around but essentially all they did was convince current pay to win games to lose that feature only to be locked behind time limit walls (e.g. Galaga). Great you don’t have to pay money but I doubt Apple pays them much for the effort so what’s the point other than to get in Apple’s good graces?

 

[nastysailboat]

Developers have been given the gift of the M1, probably the most important thing to happens since like Core i7 and no one seems to care? It at last is a capable integrated solution that doesn't throttle and doesn't use much battery.... But again no one seems to care. Apple don't seem to care either, they should be the ones making the push and they've done nothing. If anything they've just pushed developers away with the whole Epic Games thing....

Is gaming on MacBooks ever gonna happen? We used to be able to do the whole Bootcamp thing, but not anymore.

Hopefully not we got other stuff to work on

 

[MayaUser]

Mobile games are simply there for “pay to win.” AAA developers do exist such as WB Games with Injustice and Mortal Kombat. High performance games such as Genshin Impact are probably the most notorious currently but it eats a lot of storage, uncomfortable to play for long periods which is required and is pay to win as well.

People will pay $60 for a console/pc game filled with micro-transactions, each is 60GB+, but you can play for long periods on the couch or desk and online. Mobile games can’t do any of those things so they have to make their money with pay to win and everyone dislikes that as well. Apple Arcade comes around but essentially all they did was convince current pay to win games to lose that feature only to be locked behind time limit walls (e.g. Galaga). Great you don’t have to pay money but I doubt Apple pays them much for the effort so what’s the point other than to get in Apple’s good graces?

those mobile games, besides Genshin , will not compare to whats coming... i tried Diablo Immortal and its a true Diablo game but on mobile
game controllers are available too , and now, Immortal will be on PC too
So, i think true AAA games can start from now on the SoC are powerful enough to have an 1440p or even 4k@60hz...in 10 years i think the smartphone will be the "heart" PC that connects to a larger monitor
Tomorrow more to come for mobile, rumours are saying that 1 from the 2 mobile games is WoW MMO

 

[senttoschool]

Markets are not static. They change over time. I’m confident that there is a bright future for Mac gaming ahead. It will just take time.

Agreed. It seems like people can’t do basic math here or project even slightly into the future. The logic that people apply here is that it didn’t happen in the past, it’s not happening now, so therefore it will never happen in the future.

 

[MayaUser]

Now that dev started to make AAA for mobile, i think it will be a lot easier to port an mobile game to the mac platform or/and in the future for arm windows too. Because the time to port an arm mobile game to an desktop OS that runs the same architecture takes a lot less time than porting between arm and x86

 

[Zdigital2015]

Markets are not static. They change over time. I’m confident that there is a bright future for Mac gaming ahead. It will just take time.

I understand that markets aren’t static and that the ASi transition is not complete, but the inertia is with Windows and the three major consoles. The whole corporate
Philosophy around gaming has moved to a larger risk/larger reward model with micro transactions tethering players to a game to extract as much money out of the player. The player base on the Mac may not be small, but there just isn’t any momentum to be had because the size is still not sufficient enough to provide the profit to make it worth it to the majority of publishers. Will this change? Maybe…but that bright future you’re talking about seems perpetually on the horizon.

 

[Deguello]

So, i think true AAA games can start from now on the SoC are powerful enough to have an 1440p or even 4k@60hz...in 10 years i think the smartphone will be the "heart" PC that connects to a larger monitor

That‘s possible, but it seems at least as possible that graphics performance is going to continue to push and that it simply isn’t possible to get the same out of a phone that you can get out of a dedicated device that doesn’t have to run on battery.

 

[MayaUser]

That‘s possible, but it seems at least as possible that graphics performance is going to continue to push and that it simply isn’t possible to get the same out of a phone that you can get out of a dedicated device that doesn’t have to run on battery.

of course, remember laptops run on battery as well but i understand what you mean. Until my 16" Mbp M1 Max i cannot thought that i can have a desktop performance into a laptop, but now its possible..of course the M1 Ultra is not into a laptop but still what Apple accomplished is outstanding for gen 1
At least its the beginning...they have enough power for an 1080p/1440p AAA games now
PS: remember the ipad pro has thunderbolt port so if Apple allows it, can run 80% of an desktop external gpu, so the hardware is there definitely even for a mobile device
Cannot wait for the M2 family that will be based on the "colder" A15 cores...the iphone 13 pro is definitely the "coldest" running apps smartphone, at least compared to the 12 pro

 

[Deguello]

of course, remember laptops run on battery as well but i understand what you mean
At least its the beginning...they have enough power for an 1080p/1440p AAA games now

Gaming laptops don’t “have to” run on battery. I guess, technically, phones don’t either, but they’re not very viable otherwise. Laptops still are.

No doubt phones are getting more powerful. Still nothing like what a gaming PC can do. And they aren’t standing still, either.

 

[MayaUser]

Gaming laptops don’t “have to” run on battery. I guess, technically, phones don’t either, but they’re not very viable otherwise. Laptops still are.

No doubt phones are getting more powerful. Still nothing like what a gaming PC can do. And they aren’t standing still, either.

yes, thats the thing they all evolve , all devices..but in the last 10 years..the performance of the smartphones evolved the most
I think soon, the desktop gpu will reach an TDP limit..i mean people will not want to make games just for cards that suck over 500W on its own, its not a profit smart move...thats why smartphone/mobile games are the most profitable now, they are in billions hands
10 years ago never thought we will have true AAA games for mobiles...so i dont want to think what will happen 10 years from now
In 10 years we can have an imac style computer...an studio display with a small dock on its foot where to place the smartphone for charging, and that smartphone will be the brain for that monitor...no wonder they already try a monitor with A13 in it, no wonder they started to offer game controls for iOS. Diablo immortal will offer support for keyboard WASD if you play it on PC or smartphone connected to a wireless keyboard

 

[Deguello]

Again, possible. Seems really unlikely. We’ll see.

 

[MayaUser]

Again, possible. Seems really unlikely. We’ll see.

Seems really unlikely what? maybe i miss understood you, or i didnt explain myself good enough

 

[macsound1]

I only play 2 games, but they work just great on M1.
Seems like many others also play games on their mac based on this list.

Apple Silicon Games

curated by Mac Gamers for Mac Gamers

applesilicongames.com

 

[Deguello]

Seems really unlikely what? maybe i miss understood you, or i didnt explain myself good enough

Seems really unlikely that phones are going to be the heart of a PC that replaces gaming PCs.

If phones are to replace even run of the mill PCs, the holdup, imo, even today isn’t hardware so much as the OS.

 

[MayaUser]

Seems really unlikely that phones are going to be the heart of a PC that replaces gaming PCs.

If phones are to replace even run of the mill PCs, the holdup, imo, even today isn’t hardware so much as the OS.

Apple can anytime to unlock macOS for the smartphone dock....think about samsung dex that when you connect it it transform the smartphone on a big display into a pointer OS
Again, Apple has macOS...so, it should not be a problem about OS...and if all the games in 10 years will be on iOS/ipadOS then that its not about OS anymore...since we are talking about gaming here
Gaming PC now rely on windows...a legacy OS....developers follow the money..i follow the time/money best ratio...until M1Max i was on winodws side...now im on the mac
If i were a game dev i definitely would start to make the most potent AAA for iOS/ipadOS with the hardware that Apple can provide me now. No wonder Blizzard started to dev a lot of games for mobile...and remember, ironically Blizzard is under Microsoft now, so even Microsoft knows this is the money grab platform

 

[MayaUser]

I only play 2 games, but they work just great on M1.
Seems like many others also play games on their mac based on this list.

Apple Silicon Games

curated by Mac Gamers for Mac Gamers

applesilicongames.com

you can play any game with geforce now?
i dont play, but there is that right? or are there any limitations? I mean if geforce now exists why even try to install/game differently ?