Apple CAN’T do AAA gaming [Merged Megathread]

[Zdigital2015]

Agreed. It seems like people can’t do basic math here or project even slightly into the future. The logic that people apply here is that it didn’t happen in the past, it’s not happening now, so therefore it will never happen in the future.

The basic math tells me the Console market is way bigger than the potential market of macOS customers who want to play games and have “game worthy” Macs. The basic math tells me the Windows-based gaming market is also a lot bigger, despite the disparate combinations of hardware that devs have to account for. Projecting into the future is never an easy thing to do, but it is easy to see that Apple doesn’t support gaming on the Mac, while doing much more on iOS and iPadOS, which is where they see the market, at least for what they sell. iPhone hardware is the number one cash cow for Apple and feeding that cash cow is going to be given top priority from now nTB until doomsday. Mac sales will *NEVER* equal iPhone sales, ever. As in NEVER EVER…that is a me projecting into the future. If you can argue that it will with a straight face I have several bridges and a condominium complex for sale. The future of Mac gaming is dim and will be that way for the foreseeable future. If you disagree, please feel free to list your arguments in favor of your position.

 

[macsound1]

you can play any game with geforce now?
i dont play, but there is that right? or are there any limitations? I mean if geforce now exists why even try to install/game differently ?

Never tried it.
I'm not a hardcore gamer at all so it doesn't interest me. But I'm very satisfied with the way the M1 Mac handles the 2 games I play.

 

[Deguello]

Apple can anytime to unlock macOS for the smartphone dock....think about samsung dex that when you connect it it transform the smartphone on a big display into a pointer OS
Again, Apple has macOS...so, it should not be a problem about OS...and if all the games in 10 years will be on iOS/ipadOS then that its not about OS anymore...since we are talking about gaming here
Gaming PC now rely on windows...a legacy OS....developers follow the money..i follow the time/money best ratio...until M1Max i was on winodws side...now im on the mac
If i were a game dev i definitely would start to make the most potent AAA for iOS/ipadOS with the hardware that Apple can provide me now. No wonder Blizzard started to dev a lot of games for mobile...and remember, ironically Blizzard is under Microsoft now, so even Microsoft knows this is the money grab platform

Apple has macOS that doesn’t run on a phone, afaik. Maybe Apple can have the device run something like iOS off the dock and like macOS on the dock but, afaik, that capability doesn’t currently exist.

“Legacy OS.” How old is Windows 11?

Blizzard isn’t under MS yet, although that’s the plan if it’s approved.

I‘m not saying don’t develop for Mac, but there’s a looooong way to go to catch up to PCs and it isn’t going to be solved with just a better SoC.

 

[Homy]

Ya'll see the Embracer group is buying Square-Enix's Western studios for a cool 300 million?

Crystal Dynamics, Eidos-Montreal and Square Enix Montreal. They now own the new upcoming Tomb Raider and Deus Ex (and the old ones).

 

[diamond.g]

Crystal Dynamics, Eidos-Montreal and Square Enix Montreal. They now own the new upcoming Tomb Raider and Deus Ex (and the old ones).

Yup some 1000 developers.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

Its what he wants, not what will happen. No sane big game developer will optimize their game for insanely small userbase. Most people dont use macs, most people who do use macs have intel macs and most people who use macs use them for work not for games

You forget that it’s not just about size but profitability. Mac users, as well as iPhone users or Apple customers in general, have on average more spending capacity compared to users of other platforms.
Anyway, as time will move on and Apple will continue to be more focused on gaming (the signs are there, obviously, they even tried to market the M1 as somewhat of a gaming platform for iOS ports) and more competitive with their chips and software platforms, there will be more incentive for developers to develop for the Mac as well. They’ll move where the money is, and Apple surely knows about that. For now they are happy with Apple Arcade, but eventually they’ll have to cater to people that want more. And they will. Just be prepared to pay $600-1k more for an actually gaming capable machine.

 

[MacsRgr8]

It suprises how long it takes for Feral / Aspyr to get one of the newer major titles ”Apple Silicon Optimized”.

Personally I am so much looking forward to X-Plane 12. For the rest, to me a new Grid / Dirt game optimised for M1 would be lovely ?

 

[wabisabizo]

It seems to me they have no intentions/plans for a gaming laptop in the near future. I think Apple is happy with their Apple Arcade/Games on iOS and iPadOS. Its best to stick with PC’s for gaming on laptops. Clearly, Apple shows no interest in this area.

 

[evertjr]

Metal doesn't have feature parity with other graphics API and most developer won't risk using things like MoltenVK that can be broken and stop working at anytime, even Shadow of Tomb Raider developers used so form of Metal translation to work around its limitations... I don't know why people expect overnight changes since 99% of Macs had notorious weak graphics performance for soo long and just now Apple changed the game, now even a base M1 Air could handle any properly optimized AAA game at low/medium settings, it's already a miracle how so many games can be played on top of translation layers.

MacOS needs to evolve to take advantage of this hardware, Metal as it is is fine for Apple Arcade games but not enough for AAA gaming. I expect some advancements at WWDC, they should either update Metal to make it a dream to develop for or just enable native Vulkan support, otherwise gaming on Macs will remain niche for the foreseeable future.

 

[orionquest]

This again, Apple never has or ever will embrace gaming in the more traditional sense of PC and console gaming.
Also without Nivida forgetaboutit.

 

[mi7chy]

Apple II series was the last relevant and sizable Apple gaming platform so it's been dead since after 1980s. Apple gaming on 68k, PowerPC, Intel and AS were/are dead. Instead of losing hair over it and buying Rogaine subscription it's easier just to pick up a cheap console or PC.

 

[leman]

you can play any game with geforce now?

I just canceled my founders subscription because no game I am interested in is on GFN.

 

[Shreducator]

I really wish Apple would enter the market in similar way to Apple TV+. At the end of the day to compete you need exclusive games. The statistics for Mac gaming show a very small fraction of gamers use a Mac. There's no way in hell developers will justify optimizing for the platform. Fascinating thing is Apple makes more money off the iOS platform than Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft combined in gaming revenue. Mobile games are a great money maker. So they really have no invective to enter the market. Games still run great on M1 through the translation layer believe it or not. Tip of the hat for the M1! I've excepted this a long time ago. We can all dream. Get a gaming laptop or Steam Deck. I'm happy with my PS5 and Xbox series X.

 

[diamond.g]

those mobile games, besides Genshin , will not compare to whats coming... i tried Diablo Immortal and its a true Diablo game but on mobile
game controllers are available too , and now, Immortal will be on PC too
So, i think true AAA games can start from now on the SoC are powerful enough to have an 1440p or even 4k@60hz...in 10 years i think the smartphone will be the "heart" PC that connects to a larger monitor
Tomorrow more to come for mobile, rumours are saying that 1 from the 2 mobile games is WoW MMO

Is Diablo Immortal coming to macOS (aka are they just running the iOS game on Mac)?

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

of course, remember laptops run on battery as well but i understand what you mean. Until my 16" Mbp M1 Max i cannot thought that i can have a desktop performance into a laptop, but now its possible..of course the M1 Ultra is not into a laptop but still what Apple accomplished is outstanding for gen 1
At least its the beginning...they have enough power for an 1080p/1440p AAA games now
PS: remember the ipad pro has thunderbolt port so if Apple allows it, can run 80% of an desktop external gpu, so the hardware is there definitely even for a mobile device
Cannot wait for the M2 family that will be based on the "colder" A15 cores...the iphone 13 pro is definitely the "coldest" running apps smartphone, at least compared to the 12 pro

Apple doesn’t even allow proper monitor support on the iPad so external gpu support is easily decades away.

 

[Nermal]

World of Warcraft runs native on the M1 and is supposed to be amazing so was that a port or a rebuild of sorts?

I suspect it was a relatively simple porting job. WoW had a PowerPC version back in the day, so the code should have already been reasonably cross-platform. It had already been using Metal for a few years before M1 came along, so again, a relatively simple job.

 

[4743913]

Apple should have purchased Aspyr.

 

[apparatchik]

In perf per watt the M1 series already has the fastest consumer GPU in the market, and if you follow the progression on the A series chips, the perf will be ever closer to that of mid to high end discrete GPU's.

The API part of things (raytracing, etc) can also improve and probably will by next month's WWDC, it's not like Metal and macOS are static. I also want to emphasize that you can have an M1 Mac Mini for $650, it's an inexpensive and very capable machine in terms of GPU perf compared to its Windows competitors at that price bracket.

To me the part of the puzzle missing is a financial push from Apple to help finance the port and development of present and future AAA games. They've spent so much money on AppleTV+, a fraction of which could do so much to lure studios and jump start a new era of Mac gaming.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

...and we may never be

 

[diamond.g]

Apple should have purchased Aspyr.

Surely you meant Crystal Dynamics or Eidos right?

 

[tubuliferous]

I’m not sure what’s up with all of this pessimism. In a few years most Mac users will have highly capable graphics hardware, representing a sizable, largely untapped market for major game developers (especially now that Apple’s overall chunk of the the computer marketshare is increasing thanks to the strength of Apple Silicon). It’s going to take some time for AAA game devs to get serious about Mac gaming, but it’s going to happen.

 

[Lihp8270]

In perf per watt the M1 series already has the fastest consumer GPU in the market, and if you follow the progression on the A series chips, the perf will be ever closer to that of mid to high end discrete GPU's.

The API part of things (raytracing, etc) can also improve and probably will by next month's WWDC, it's not like Metal and macOS are static. I also want to emphasize that you can have an M1 Mac Mini for $650, it's an inexpensive and very capable machine in terms of GPU perf compared to its Windows competitors at that price bracket.

To me the part of the puzzle missing is a financial push from Apple to help finance the port and development of present and future AAA games. They've spent so much money on AppleTV+, a fraction of which could do so much to lure studios and jump start a new era of Mac gaming.

For $650, why would a gamer purchase a mac mini over a much more capable PS5 or XBSX with much bigger game libraries?

 

[JDHiro]

I'm quite happy playing Final Fantasy XIV on my MacBook!

I'm having fun with Elden Ring on my PS5, but wouldn't complain about having it on Mac.

 

[singularity0993]

Aspyr ported games perform significantly worse on Mac. I tried Civ 6 in Boot Camp and it was at least double the performance.

Even StarCraft II, which used Metal natively, still performed far worse on macOS than Boot Camp. It makes me wonder why.

It suprises how long it takes for Feral / Aspyr to get one of the newer major titles ”Apple Silicon Optimized”.

Personally I am so much looking forward to X-Plane 12. For the rest, to me a new Grid / Dirt game optimised for M1 would be lovely ?

 

[theorist9]

Are there feature-identical Mac gaming peripherals like programmable mice, keyboards, and keypads? I know some devices work to some extent but if I want to utilize something fully — say Razer Tartarus or even one of their keyboards or mice — on a Mac does anyone offer such things?

Lots of gaming mice work on a Mac. I myself evaluated models from both Razer and Logitech, and currently use a Logitch G502. Though I don't use it for gaming—I use its multiple buttons for office/scientific productivity work.