Apple CEO Tim Cook Publicly Comes Out as Gay in Letter Declaring Support for Equality

[k995]

I don't think christians believe in goblins.

I didnt specify any religion.

But christians believe in ghosts, invisible talking almighy (but very unlogic) figures, demons, angels, talking animals, fire breathing horses , seven headed beast, spirits,... basicly the average cast of any fantasy novel .


Other religions believe in other creatures and again in 2014 its strange to take anyone serieus who actually believes in this .

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I didn't explicitly mention ghosts in my rambling post a while back, but ghosts (for want of a better expression) are somewhere within the picture. I'm curious, contemplative about that aspect of things, but I don't imagine that I'll ever reach a rational conclusion.

No "wooooooo" things and white bedsheets in my own case. All rather mundane and no problem to live with. There was someone in a white top/dress once, blonde curly hair, and it wasn't just me who saw her. Later that evening my flatmate's girlfriend, who had looked through the front window of the flat whilst passing on the top floor of a double-decker, had a right barney with him about seeing the woman in the flat.

Not rational. It's more enjoyable to retain a sense of wonder for some things.

Incidentally, nothing wondrous about the blonde-ness of her hair or the cut of her clothing, just … we (all) wondered about that event … and a few others. No goblins, either.

Different thing you talk about, organised religion is different then an experience you have.


Look its actually simple, the bible is filled with symbols and NOT to be taken word for word .

Yet countless people shut of part of their brain and let a large part of what they believe in be determined by others and for those its easier to let people believe in burning bushes and commandments then any filosofical discussion .

 

[Meister]

Censor his opinion? No. I want someone who continues to maliciously attack a group of people to shut the **** up.

Who is attacking someone?
Wanting the mods to shut someone up, because you don't agree with him is pretty mucn the essence of censorship.

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While I don't agree with him either, the point of PRSI is that it's supposed to be controversial. It doesn't help anyone to simply censor opinions or arguments that we don't agree with, no matter how silly they may be.

Well put! The whole point of PRSI is to be controversial.

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I think at its core Christians believe in "love one another." It's just that there are many centuries of ritualistic ceremony and rules and traditions (on which the various sects of Christianity don't reslly agree with each other) associated with it that look like ghosts and goblins to skeptical outsiders. And then of course, there are the differences over what it means to love one another and how to express that love.

But, you know, if people find "ghost, goblins and fairy tales" helpful as guides to living a meaningful life, that's their business. I don't think it's right to ridicule their beliefs by calling them goblins and whatnot. On the other hand, when people insist that their faith must be true for everyone, I can kind of see how that might invite this kind of ridicule. The sad part is, not all religious people are like this -- there are plenty of deeply religious people who understand that their faith is a personal thing between them and their God and not a universal truth to be pushed on to everyone else. I'm sorry that some people seem to have experiences only with the "ghosts and goblins" type of religiosity, and so dismiss all religions as fairy tales.

Thank you. This is a very insightfull post.

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Meister, I enjoy your occasional plain speech and so on.

I wonder whether you can realise (empathise with?) the strength of feeling that can result from deeply offensive words after, on top of, umpteen years of being oppressed.

That's not a play of an 'our community's suffering is/was worse than yours' card, and I'm not trying to imply that you're thoughtless.

I treat the wish, of an offended person, for an offender to **** (or be overtly moderated) as a freedom of speech. He or she should be free to say, in so many words, fermez la fourchette au-dessus; and to rant about a perceived lack of moderation.

Just thoughts – I'm genuinely curious, not attempting to be combative.

(Also it would be nice to not perpetuate separatist thoughts e.g. me not part of your (presumably straight) community, and so on, but I'm not about to ride off on a whale-saving unicorn or anything so for the moment I'll stick as close as I can to plain speech … if that makes sense.)

I have a hard time understanding your post. What community do you mean?

 

[taptic]

Best thing about this thread is that it's given me an opportunity to see who the intolerant forum members are and add them to my block list

How "tolerant" of you...

 

[HyperZboy]

Being Hetertosexual is a natural occurrence in nature, we are born with the instinct to procreate.

Yes, procreation is natural, but being homosexual is a proven scientific natural occurrence by any reputable scientific person, putting religion aside.

Homosexuality is not scientifically "unnatural." It happens every day in the wild.
It's hard to name a species that hasn't done it really.

So what is your point again?

 

[IpadSC400]

Yes, procreation is natural, but being homosexual is a proven scientific natural occurrence by any reputable scientific person, putting religion aside.

Homosexuality is not scientifically "unnatural." It happens every day in the wild.
It's hard to name a species that hasn't done it really.

So what is your point again?

You're comparing humans to animals...? So, yeah a lot of species do that but chickens also eat their own poop, so therefore, it must be ok.

If we take an animals action and say it's "orthodox for humans to do so" , that will not bode well for many.

 

[iBlazed]

You're comparing humans to animals...?

Humans are animals. And some of us are hardwired to be attracted to the same sex. It's not changing, no matter how much our "stuck in the mud" friends think it should.

 

[IpadSC400]

Humans are animals. And some of us are hardwired to be attracted to the same sex. It's not changing, no matter how much our "stuck in the mud" friends think it should.

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

 

[iBlazed]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...

First grade science class?

but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

What if I don't believe in your bible and your God? Why should YOUR "wacked" religious beliefs dictate laws that effect ALL of us? Oh wait, they don't, because we have a Constitution in this country that protects people against that whether you like it or not.

 

[ErikGrim]

How "tolerant" of you...

You don’t have to tolerate intolerance to be tolerant.

 

[imageWIS]

When giving a talk at a college campus, Ms. Hellman was asked why she had not endorsed gay rights. She replied "The forms of ****ing do not require my endorsement."

 

[\-V-/]

While I don't agree with him either, the point of PRSI is that it's supposed to be controversial. It doesn't help anyone to simply censor opinions or arguments that we don't agree with, no matter how silly they may be.

Yeah ... sorry ... I get that. It's just very difficult to shrug off some of these comments. I don't know why I'm always surprised to see how incredibly stupid people can be. I know this section is designed specifically for these kinds of debates. I'll just continue to add to my ignore list I suppose.

 

[APlotdevice]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

The word "animal" applies to ANY multicellular life form with specialized organs and a need to consume organic nutrients rather than produce its own. That includes humans.

Also, if you don't think the Bible should be adapted to modern ways of thinking, then I suppose you think Divorce should be outlawed?

 

[\-V-/]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

Whether you like it or not ... the crap you were brainwashed to believe doesn't need to be applied to the reality in which we are currently living in ... one that involves people fighting for human rights. Humans are very much animals ... sorry to break the news to you. I'm also sorry to tell you that marriage is not Christian in origin and it far predates the bible and recorded history ... and many of the older practices of marriage had absolutely nothing to do with love. There is nothing religious about marriage. You can have Christian wedding ceremonies, but it hardly applies to all forms of marriage. You can have your weddings your way ... but it stops there. Sorry.

You don’t have to tolerate intolerance to be tolerant.

Yeah, no kidding.

You're comparing humans to animals...? So, yeah a lot of species do that but chickens also eat their own poop, so therefore, it must be ok.

If we take an animals action and say it's "orthodox for humans to do so" , that will not bode well for many.

Your analogies are poor and you have no clue what you're talking about. Have you ever taken a single biology class? Want me to make a list of the vile things that humans do and have done? They're very animalistic in nature, I assure you.

 

[taptic]

You don’t have to tolerate intolerance to be tolerant.

Well, who's making the rules here?

 

[mudslag]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

Animal: a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

Humans are by the very definition an animal. It's not some wacky idea, it's a statement of fact. As for marriage, it's so sad how this has to be repeated over and over, your religion nor any religion, nor god, government, group or person owns the "rights" to marriage. Anyone of any religion or non religion can get married. As atheists my wife and I are married and that has zero to do with god, be it yours or anyone elses. Thankfully your view is slowly but surely dying off and that's progress.

 

[\-V-/]

Humans are by the very definition an animal. It's not some wacky idea, it's a statement of fact. As for marriage, it's so sad how this has to be repeated over and over, your religion nor any religion, nor god, government, group or person owns the "rights" to marriage. Anyone of any religion or non religion can get married. As atheists my wife and I are married and that has zero to do with god, be it yours or anyone elses. Thankfully your view is slowly but surely dying off and that's progress.

This. Although I really wish things would move along faster, I'm really happy to see how things are progressing right now. It's pissing a LOT of ignorant and hateful people off ... but in a good way. It's drawing attention to that fact that old ideas need to die and the future of equality needs to be embraced with open arms. Religious nut jobs are losing their power and say in regards to human rights. We even have the Pope caving into the ideas of evolution. I'm not sure if the Pope is trying to be "hip" ... or he's just terribly afraid of what might happen if the Catholic church doesn't change some of their archaic views on things. Either way ... this is a very interesting time to live in.

 

[samiwas]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

So, the world, whether or not they follow the Christian religion, has to abide by Christian standards when marrying? Well, that's pretty messed up , don't you think?

Sounds like freedom of religion then only applies to Christian beliefs?

 

[chown33]

... We even have the Pope caving into the ideas of evolution. I'm not sure if the Pope is trying to be "hip" ... or he's just terribly afraid of what might happen if the Catholic church doesn't change some of their archaic views on things. Either way ... this is a very interesting time to live in.

The Pope "caving" on evolution is not a recent event[1]:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20239874/

I don't intend to sidetrack this thread, so please post any responses on the other thread.



[1] Except on a geological or cosmological scale.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I wonder if the Samsung CEO will suddenly become gay too.

someone forward that legendary quote to Tim Cook I'm sure they would lol hard.

 

[flat five]

I am emotionally drained by this discussion

well yeah, you're (not just you) having an emotional argument while avoiding logic.
(not saying you're not a logical person.. it's possible your logic mechanisms are sharper than those you're speaking with)

just saying all of your logic is based off a core belief/emotion/faith as being fact.

if someone has a different core belief, or even no belief, then they're going to disagree with everything else you have to say... it first requires the core belief to be true in order for the logic applied to the belief to be taken seriously.

it's a circular argument

wiki:
Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with. The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade. Other ways to express this are that there is no reason to accept the premises unless one already believes the conclusion, or that the premises provide no independent ground or evidence for the conclusion. Begging the question is closely related to circular reasoning, and in modern usage the two generally refer to the same thing.

Circular reasoning is often of the form: "A is true because B is true; B is true because A is true." Circularity can be difficult to detect if it involves a longer chain of propositions.​

in other words, you can't use the bible to prove the bible as fact.. (then, to stay somewhat on topic, continue on to use the bible to prove homosexuality is a sin.)

here's a question-- did you believe in god before you read the bible?


if yes then when and under what circumstances did you start believing in god? (this question, obviously, requires honesty)

point being, you don't seem to be talking about the core belief.. but that's where the disagreement(s) are happening.. so of course it's going to be draining--- the conversation just goes around in circles

 

[nikaru]

Your thoughts on the subject disgust me more than Tim's announcement disgusts you.

TRUST me, it does.

Oh sorry I explianed the sexuality between man and man, and man and women in the most realistic way possible. Im sure that when you have sex there are rainbows coming out of your but and it is beatiful fairy tale all along, but at the end its all about how you like to have sex, and as consecuence, to who express your love. Gay people have sex, and if my explanation disgust you, then the whole gay thing disgust you, because its how two man generally have sex. In some cultures, man kiss man to say "hallo" and thats not gay. What is gay at the end in the sexual relationship thats behind the personal relationship.

I expressed myself this way not because I want to be interesting, but because I wanted to show people that the majority of them like (belive it or not) to make strange things in bed (just loook the huge lists of categories in any porn site). To have sex with another man is just another strange thing that some people like to do, and since sex is such a powerful emotion it logically develope to more complicated non-sexual relationship at a personal level, sucha as love. Or maybe the love which has strong sexual basis, leads to real sex? Dont know.

 

[Meister]

Humans are animals. And some of us are hardwired to be attracted to the same sex. It's not changing, no matter how much our "stuck in the mud" friends think it should.

"He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man." Dr. Johnson

You have a right to believe that you are nothing more than an animal which is a slave to it's genes and environment, but spreading this limiting philosphy is a crime against the human soul.

Humans are born with certain predispostitions, but they have the ability to change. This is what makes us human. It is sad and sickining that you were brainwashed as a child in "science class" to limit yourself like that. The dogma you are trying to instill in people is the reason why I am glad there is a strong christian movement in the US. They might be extreme and I do not agree with a lot of things they promote, but they are still better than atheists trying to convince everyone they are predetermined animals, unable to change. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

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Your thoughts on the subject disgust me more than Tim's announcement disgusts you.
TRUST me, it does.

A lot of straight people feel like nikaru. He is just being honest.
We have come to a point where gays have achieved the same rights as straight people and that's a good thing. But you cannot seriously expect people to not find homosexuality gross. I am sure some homos find straight sex gross and I wouldn't tell them not to.

I wanna add that I am personaly not disgusted at all by Tim Cooks statement. In fact I think he had really good intentions and I repsect him for that.

 

[Phil A.]

marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

How does two gay men or lesbian women getting married (which is perfectly legal in many jurisdictions) adversely affect you?

You are entitled to your beliefs and I respect that right, so why can't you respect the rights of people who don't share your beliefs?

I'm a straight white male and have never really experienced any discrimination or prejudice, but that doesn't mean I can't see how wrong it is to discriminate against someone for their sexuality, race or gender!

 

[sim667]

Good for him.
Its 2014 though. You'd think we were past having to fight for equality.

You'd also think that we should be past people having to "come out" and for it to become world news

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No. That is my life choice.

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Dude. I was driving and misread it. I've explained it five times already. Relax.

You were reading a forum whilst driving?!

 

[sim667]

Humans are not animals. Never have humans been animals. I don't know where you got your wacked idea...yes some people are attracted the the same gender, but marriage should be between one MAN and one WOMAN as intended by God whether you like it or not and adapting what the Bible says to fit what we want is not something I recommend.

Lest we forget that apple products were freely available in the garden of eden, and god only allowed that because Steve Jobbs was heterosexual.

Now please stop trying to apply the teachings of your false deity to peoples lives.