Apple CEO Tim Cook Publicly Comes Out as Gay in Letter Declaring Support for Equality

[brianvictor7]

From the lack of maturity you have so eloquently displayed in the forums thus far, you don't get to have any authority over what may or may not be deemed "mature." Also, there is nothing "blessed" about all the venom you have spit in this thread ... and you are a glaring contradiction to the teachings of your Christ. I'll leave you with a blunt, but suitable image:

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"Ok, here’s an idea. You love, like I loved you. Make sure you take care of them and don’t judge them."
Did Jesus teach that exactly? He taught something like it, but not as you imply.

People, my main purpose in responding in this forum is because I see people mishandling the Scripture. You read Matt 7:1, see Jesus' words, "Do not judge", and stop there as if you've discovered the perfect verse to silence Christians without ever taking the rest of the Scripture into context. You want to say I'm wrong about my beliefs about Sexual Immorality, fine. You want to tell me the Scriptures are ancient fabrications of pious cultists? Go ahead. That's your opinion. You want to use Scripture to tell me off? Have the intellectual integrity to use it correctly.

Did Jesus say in Matt 7:1 "Do not Judge or you too will be judged." Yes. Are you aware that he also said in John 7:24, "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." These are not contradictions if you take the time to read them in context. They are warnings against judging hypocritically, not to bury our heads in the sand about what is right and wrong. More proof needed? Since Jesus' stated purpose in coming to earth was to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10) how is he to do that unless he points out their sins so that they may turn away from them?

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As per the bible the original intent of god was for adam to be completely alone in the world with his penis. A plight many modern day bible scholars can relate to.

Was it God's intent that he be completely alone for long? Seems not since he created Eve.

 

[Lictor]

The greatest lie in this forum is that sexual immorality, defined as sex outside of heterosexual marriage, is harmless. If it is harmless, why do we have an AIDS epidemic which destroys countless lives each year?

Why do you focus so much on this?
If you count by deaths, BBQ kills a lot more people in the USA than AIDS. When do you battle against sexual freedom and not against BBQ?
If you count by sins, Gluttony and Sloth kill a lot more people than Lust. Why focus on the sin that kills the less?
On the political level, Greed and Envy are perverting the USA and most of the world at a level that is way beyond the people that AIDS kills (and actually, a lot of people with AIDS die because of Greed more than they die because of a disease that you can now live with if you have the money to afford the drugs). Yet, you chose to ignore the two deadly sins many christians in position of power are guilty of...

Maybe it's because you're not about religion but about politics... A lot of so-called christians are obese, eat meat or do not exercise. As a christian, you cannot condemn those sins. But a lot of christians cheat on their wives in hiding or are homosexuals in the closet, so you can give yourself the illusion of being a good christian by pretending to attack lust...

 

[Irishman]

It prevents COBOL programmers from learning a modern programming language... It makes politician think that if they didn't work the first 999 times, their ideas will certainly work the 1000 time. I also suspect it fuels fanboyism... There is a biais in the brain that makes us reluctant to change our ways of thinking (it's called Einstellung).
The good news is that if we someday find a cure for that, we will probably eradicate both fanboyism and religion at the same time.

My question was serious.

 

[Irishman]

I've written repeatedly in this forum where the Scripture says homosexuality is a sin (Lev 20), where Jesus affirms the OT Law (Matt 5) noted that there are ceremonial, judicial/civil and moral laws in the OT, noted that the ceremonial and judicial 1) only applied to the Jews (this is a very basic Jewish and Christian doctrine). and 2) shown how in Acts 15 it is was strictly forbidden to force the Gentiles (all non-jews) from being held to the ceremonial and judicial laws. Moreover, gentiles were explicitly told in Acts 15 to abstain from sexual immorality, of which homosexuality would have been inescapably understood to be included based on the context of Acts 15.

Basic today, after translation after translation. How much time have you spent in the original languages? You will be surprised, I guarantee you.

 

[Meister]

If all civilisations developed independently across the world believing in the same God, it might have some legs but the fact that every civilisation came up with different ways to explain away weather, sickness and death be it polytheism or monotheism, makes it impossible for me to take any religion as fact. Certain "moral codes" are no brainers and not exclusive to any one religion.

Actually the belief that homosexual acts are to be avoided/sin/taboo is present in almost all civilizations. The scriptures and teachings of various religions (Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism and even Hinduism) warn of the missuse of sexual intercourse and specifically same sex intercourse. While this does not automatically mean that we need to follow this in a modern civilization, I would nevertheless take this warning from the past seriously.

 

[brianvictor7]

Well stop asking yourself - the simple answer is that they just don't share the same "god" as you do. And you will need to live with it. You don't seriously expect everyone else to live by whatever "god" you were told to 'believe" in? (maybe you've even chosen that "god" voluntarily, doesn't make a difference contextually) .

I most certainly do not expect everyone else will choose live by God's rule.
But right and wrong don't depend on what people believe (if that is not the case, then how would we condemn what another culture does?)

I don't have a "personal belief", there's no room or need for any "belief system" in my life.

Dec. For someone who doesn't believe in anything, you seem very passionate about your beliefs. I really think we've reached the end of having anything more to say on this topic if that is your thinking.

I know that people like you have a hard time understanding that, I don't expect you to respect it or anything, but it also doesn't matter, I don't need your understanding. What YOU need to understand is that your personal "belief" and opinion has zero relevance when it comes to the lives of others and the laws that affect them.

If my beliefs have no relevance, then why are you calling me a lot of names? Is it perhaps because you are afraid my words will influence someone in power to change laws in a way that aren't to your liking?

Yes, feel free to complain about "immoral people" , but really, what exactly do you expect? People change their lives because you personally think that there's some "god" out there who is unhappy about the lives that those people live? Get real.

Then change lives because what we're doing as a society isn't "just working". There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancies, venereal diseases, etc if people just sleep with who the Bible says they should. Is self-control hard? Yes. Oh yes. Very hard. Is it impossible? No.

I have no issues with your "belief" at all, as long as it was chosen voluntarily and not imposed on you while you were a kid , such a "belief" is a plain joke and doesn't deserve the slightest respect whatsoever, so I'll assume that you picked your "god" at a mature age?

Do you see how you set up a double standard? You essentially say that anyone with a belief system who raises there kids is brainwashing them. Now, assuming you have kids, you may teach them whatever you believe about how the world works, how they should act around people, etc, but that is okay because it isn't a "belief system."

Why would I need to "love" you? I don't know you. I like people in general, but throwing around the term "Love" in that sense is extremely questionable... especially as you seem to be judging them more than loving them. I might not love everyone but I also don't judge them.

If I see a man whom I believe to be walking into a deadly trap, am I being loving or hateful if I don't warn them? Never mind if I'm right about the trap itself. Are my intentions towards him good or bad?

I'll leave you with that. This conversation has to end sometime and I've reached that point personally. I won't be replying further to you on this thread.

 

[mazz0]

They need to warn the bigots with sensitive tummies who might get upset at gay people being discussed or even acknowledged as existing.

Well that's fair enough. Nobody likes the smell of bigot vomit.

 

[Irishman]

It bothers me just on principle.

That's your problem, not the world's problem.

 

[brianvictor7]

Basic today, after translation after translation. How much time have you spent in the original languages? You will be surprised, I guarantee you.

I don't understand this sentence: "Basic today, after translation after translation."

"How much time have you spent in the original languages? You will be surprised, I guarantee you."
What are you arguing? That the translation I read is a bad copy of the original? That the thousands of God fearing scholars who translated the Bible and other ancient works are either A) in some sort of conspiracy or B) not very good at their jobs?

Pardon me if I've misunderstood you by assuming the worst, but I'm in a bit of a reactionary mode here.

 

[Meister]

As a heterosexual man, I didn't know there were speculations either

Noone is surprised. Eveybody always knew that Tim was gay.
His privat life is of noones business anyway.

I think he only mentioned it because he had bad experiences growing up in his homestate and that's where he gave that speech

 

[DudeDad]

Like to watch do ya? Hold my beer, Watch this...

Getting my reading glasses....

 

[brianvictor7]

Why do you focus so much on this?

Because it is the topic at hand.

If you count by deaths, BBQ kills a lot more people in the USA than AIDS. When do you battle against sexual freedom and not against BBQ?

How nice that you can ignore everyone outside the USA so easily where it comes to being concerned about the AIDS epidemic. I wish I could do that.

If you count by sins, Gluttony and Sloth kill a lot more people than Lust. Why focus on the sin that kills the less?

You actually bring up a good question. Talk about a 10 ton elephant in the room. What constitutes gluttony? Does the Bible prescribe an ideal body weight? At what point does a person's weight unduly inconvenience others?

On the political level, Greed and Envy are perverting the USA and most of the world at a level that is way beyond the people that AIDS kills (and actually, a lot of people with AIDS die because of Greed more than they die because of a disease that you can now live with if you have the money to afford the drugs). Yet, you chose to ignore the two deadly sins many christians in position of power are guilty of...

Are you complaining that I have not given a full treatise on the sins of man? Am I held to such a high standard that I must be all things to all people in this forum? Perhaps I should have also included a list of which BBQ recipes people should avoid?

As for Greed, Sloth and Gluttony, I am there with you against it and elsewhere I even quoted Ezekiel 16:49. I will repeat it here for your benefit: “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."

And here are more scriptures on the topic: Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.” Proverbs 28:7 declares, “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/gluttony-sin.html#ixzz3HpGy10gG

The following is also an interesting article on the subject. http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2014/04/24/but-what-about-gluttony/

Of course, are you sure you know what gluttony means in the biblical context? What overfed means? Is it actually a sin to be what society calls fat?

Maybe it's because you're not about religion but about politics...

Actually, I'm about Christ and living a life that shows reverence to him.

A lot of so-called christians are obese, eat meat or do not exercise. As a christian, you cannot condemn those sins. But a lot of christians cheat on their wives in hiding or are homosexuals in the closet, so you can give yourself the illusion of being a good christian by pretending to attack lust...

If a person is dying of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and AIDS and I specialize in treating AIDS, which disease would you prefer that I address first? But if you want a full sermon on how we should live out every aspect of our lives, I'm sure one can be found for you. Or better yet, open the Bible and start reading.

 

[pooleman]

That's your problem, not the world's problem.

Take a pill. I was just sharing my personal opinion on lavish weddings. Want to hear my opinion on twerps who get overly upset over nothing?

 

[brianvictor7]

quote=#selfie
the basics boil down to (ie- the sitcom version):
christians-- bible quotes
atheists-- "you have to prove god exists.. you don't have to prove god doesn't exist" (subsequently rambling on forever in attempt to disprove god to the theist)

Sounds about like what is happening here, yes. And everything to be said has pretty much been said. I intend to take my leave of the thread at this time. God bless.

 

[bandrews]

Actually the belief that homosexual acts are to be avoided/sin/taboo is present in almost all civilizations. The scriptures and teachings of various religions (Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism and even Hinduism) warn of the missuse of sexual intercourse and specifically same sex intercourse. While this does not automatically mean that we need to follow this in a modern civilization, I would nevertheless take this warning from the past seriously.

And there are various religions and civilisations where there is no problem with it. Not to mention the fact that all these religions were founded in a time long before the understanding of science and more specifically anatomy, psychology, genetics and medicine. The sheer stubbornness to not alter one's opinion of something despite thousands of years of advances in these areas is incomprehensible.

I wonder what Jesus would have said about using computers?

But seems like you and that other chap want to only cherry pick the parts of my comments you have an answer for and just ignore the bits you can't explain and I think that's a shame.

 

[Kaibelf]

Fascinating how many people are trotting out brimstone and hellfire to talk about Tim cook and attacking him for being gay while using a computer that wouldn't exist if not for the work of another gay man named Alan Turing who was also treated terribly. Religion is such trash.

 

[Meister]

And there are various religions and civilisations where there is no problem with it. Not to mention the fact that all these religions were founded in a time long before the understanding of science and more specifically anatomy, psychology, genetics and medicine. The sheer stubbornness to not alter one's opinion of something despite thousands of years of advances in these areas is incomprehensible.

But seems like you and that other chap want to only cherry pick the parts of my comments you have an answer for and just ignore the bits you can't explain and I think that's a shame.

Excpet for some fringe civilizations almost all of them warn about homosexuality. Older civilizations had a much deeper understanding of science, psychology, ... We are just coming out of the dark ages now and people seem to be deluded into the belief that this now is some sort of high civilization. I doubt it is.

This thread is so long, I don't know everything you wrote or who the "other chap" is.
I was merely adding some food for thought.

 

[DonJudgeMe]

It's about time. Good for Tim.

 

[doelcm82]

Excpet for some fringe civilizations almost all of them warn about homosexuality. Older civilizations had a much deeper understanding of science, psychology, ... We are just coming out of the dark ages now and people seem to be deluded into the belief that this now is some sort of high civilization. I doubt it is.

This thread is so long, I don't know everything you wrote or who the "other chap" is.
I was merely adding some food for thought.

The dinosaurs were even older than the oldest civilizations (and lasted longer than humans have so far). And yet we can't find any evidence that they any taboo whatsoever regarding homosexuality.

Older human civilizations mostly had slavery, polygamy, human and animal sacrifice, and a lot of other things you now have to support since you consider them so advanced.

In all seriousness, we have to understand WHY they had the taboos and customs they did, and decide whether those reasons apply to us today. Otherwise, blindly offering chickens up to Baal or some other deity is just superstition.

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Take a pill. I was just sharing my personal opinion on lavish weddings. Want to hear my opinion on twerps who get overly upset over nothing?

In comparison to weddings, coming out ceremonies are usually done very economically (unless you're a debutante).

 

[Irishman]

I don't understand this sentence: "Basic today, after translation after translation."

"How much time have you spent in the original languages? You will be surprised, I guarantee you."
What are you arguing? That the translation I read is a bad copy of the original? That the thousands of God fearing scholars who translated the Bible and other ancient works are either A) in some sort of conspiracy or B) not very good at their jobs?

Pardon me if I've misunderstood you by assuming the worst, but I'm in a bit of a reactionary mode here.

Intent and good faith does not guarantee accuracy.

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Take a pill. I was just sharing my personal opinion on lavish weddings. Want to hear my opinion on twerps who get overly upset over nothing?

No need. I've seen your posts, and you're right about one thing: they amount to nothing.

 

[brianvictor7]

Intent and good faith does not guarantee accuracy.

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No need. I've seen your posts, and you're right about one thing: they amount to nothing.

We're done here. God bless.

 

[bandrews]

Excpet for some fringe civilizations almost all of them warn about homosexuality. Older civilizations had a much deeper understanding of science, psychology, ... We are just coming out of the dark ages now and people seem to be deluded into the belief that this now is some sort of high civilization. I doubt it is.

This thread is so long, I don't know everything you wrote or who the "other chap" is.
I was merely adding some food for thought.

Got any references for that? And by that I mean historical studies, not diatribes and opinion on far right websites.

I have one for you
History of Gay Marriage

While I'll acknowledge that older civilisations (but certainly not Christian ones) had a good grasp of science, many religious institutions have done their best over the years to curtail any evidence that goes against religious teachings. I'd also argue that no civilisation before has had anywhere near the understanding of the universe from a cosmic scale right down to the molecular. Again, if you have any reason to suggest otherwise, I'd be interested to read it.

 

[Meister]

In comparison to weddings, coming out ceremonies are usually done very economically (unless you're a debutante).

What have coming-out ceremonies to do with anything?

 

[k995]

Excpet for some fringe civilizations almost all of them warn about homosexuality.

No they didnt, most/all of asia/africa and the america's never had any such "warnings" for most part of there history, on the contrary many customs we would now see as guy weer quite normal then.

Europe had the same for most part think about greek roman and keltish customs.

Actually only recent more modern cultures imported that and spread that around.

Older civilizations had a much deeper understanding of science, psychology, ... We are just coming out of the dark ages now and people seem to be deluded into the belief that this now is some sort of high civilization. I doubt it is.

Wtf are you talking about? Care to give any such people?

 

[Meister]

While I'll acknowledge that older civilisations (but certainly not Christian ones) had a good grasp of science, many religious institutions have done their best over the years to curtail any evidence that goes against religious teachings. I'd also argue that no civilisation before has had anywhere near the understanding of the universe from a cosmic scale right down to the molecular. Again, if you have any reason to suggest otherwise, I'd be interested to read it.

It is an interesting topic. Most documentation of civilizations before this one were destroyed. We do not know how long humans have inhabitated this earth and historians even have problems reconstructing the last few decades. An interesting archeologist to read (with a grain of salt) is von Daeniken. He makes some valid points and amassed very interesting findings from the past.

I suspect that our civilization is one of the lowest points in human history. This is my personal opinion based on everything I have learned in my life. I also suspect that civilizations much further developed existed on this planet before. I am sorry that I can't give a better explanation, but explaining this completely blows the frame of an internet forum.