Apple CEO Tim Cook Touts Benefits of Globalization in China Speech

[convergent]

The only alternative is Linux. Frankly as a long time Linux user it isn't an operating system for most users. One of Apples great accomplishments with Mac OS was in giving us an extremely friendly OS with UNIX at its core. For a daily driver Mac OS is pretty hard to beat especially for a power user.

Ive been on a Mac since 2008 as my primary machine. The Linux user space has changed a lot in that time but is still clunky in my opinion. Then you have the horrors of system management and upgrades which most distributions still have. You would think that the Linux world would realize that system breaking upgrades that take weeks to resolve are in fact a big problem.

So what is the exit strategy? I really don't know but I'm seriously thinking of building a new Linux box to test out some of the latest distro's to see if there is something palatable for a daily driver. I use to run Fedora and have an older ubuntu box running right now. Neither of these rock my boat in their older forms. Ive been reading about other distros trying to solve some of Linux usability issues so maybe it is time to investigate these alternatives.

Its not really the desktop that is my biggest challenge. I use Windows at work so could easily make that switch. The only other person in my family that uses MacOS is my daughter who's a Graphics Designer and she only uses it and the phone. The problem is the iPhones, iPads, Apple TV, Apple Watch, and Apple Music! iMessage is painful when everyone isn't in the ecosystem. For a short time I had an Android phone and we used GroupMe; but we now share Messages, share apps and music, and have a shared Photo stream. Its just a very sticky ecosystem that I've allowed myself to get stuck to.

 

[citysnaps]

Tim had nothing to say about not allowing the Chinese government access to locked iPhones in that country. The Chinese government is obviously very authoritarian and if Apples plays hardball with that government the way they did with the US government China will kick Apple out of the country so fast your head will spin. Apple will roll over for the Chinese Government like a fat seal.

I'm guessing you may, or may not, understand that the United States and China have different laws. And basic tenets that are addressed by the United States Constitution may be different than what's addressed by the Constitution of the People's Republic of China.

What the US government asked of Apple (mandating Apple create a custom iOS for the government so that a seized iPhone's security could be bypassed for subsequent probing by the government) was at odds with the US Constitution. Apple rightfully pushed back hard over that issue, the government backed off. Why? Because the request was at odds with the Constitution.

That said, Apple has no right to push back on government requests/mandates that are lawful under the US Constitution. Thus, for example, when presented by a valid search warrant signed by a judge, Apple must provide information in their possession to support a criminal investigation. Apple always complies with search warrants under those circumstances.

While I'm not familiar with China's constitution and system of laws, I suspect you are from your above post.

Can you speak about their laws in regards to privacy with respect to what can be asked of companies who sell mobile phones in China? Are their requests/demands on Apple lawful under their system of laws and constitution? If not, specifically, which demands are Apple not pushing back on that are at odds with the Chinese system of laws and constitution?

 

[BlandUsername]

I keep reading here he should stop trying to do politics and just focus on Apple and its products.
Now he's getting flamed because he doesn't focus on politics.

this man cannot win.

I keep reading here he should stop trying to do politics and just focus on Apple and its products.
Now he's getting flamed because he doesn't focus on politics.

this man cannot win.

And I hope he doesn't ever. You cannot pick and choose and expect people to take you seriously. He acts all indignant that the US Government wants access to phones, and he kisses the ass of the COMMUNIST government of China. Duplicitous, self-serving arrogance. Do as I say, not as I do.
[doublepost=1490024304][/doublepost]

It's fine for all these MacRumors economists to go on tirades against globalization, but are you ready to stop complaining that iPhones are too expensive? Right now you're reaping the benefits of clothes, gadgets, and toys built by people making $50 a month. It seems to me that it's a little hypocritical to call Cook a hypocrite when our unrivaled standard of living (the American "poor" have cellphones and jewelry) is supported by people who have unimaginably less.

I agree in principle with those who've observed that Cook should be pressing China on human rights, but how hard can he push when they completely have the upper hand? He really has two options: swallow hard and try to benefit the stockholders by expanding into China, or swallow hard and take a moral stance against Chinese authoritarianism, limiting Apple's growth into that market. It's the classic tension between practicality and riteousness. When you're the CEO of one of the world's biggest multinationals, you've got to choose the time and place for each, and the only guarantee is that either way you're going to piss off someone. Especially here.

Absolutely, I do not buy the Top end products at all from Apple. I buy the technology, but certainly not the overpriced versions of the hardware.

 

[MrX8503]

I don't understand the comments about wanting Tim to be a good CEO, but not political.

Businesss with China is very important to Apple's profits and so it's critical for Tim to be politically involved.

 

[EdT]

Globalization and isolationism are not opposite things. Both are bad when taken to extremes. Extreme isolationism gives you things like North Korea. Extreme globalism kills local cultures. You can be "open" and trade fairly without being stupid. Unfortunately it appears that responsible, fair trade relations have been elusive for about the past 24 years, at least.

I agree. The problem I have with all of the Free Trade agreements is with the non-equivalency between the more developed nations and the nations trying to develop their industry. The cost of labor is going to be lower in those countries, because the standard of living is lower.

But those countries and the foreign companies that buy from them should be held to equivalent standards of work conditions, living wage, child labor laws and safety. This would still allow developing country 'X' a price advantage but not the huge one that exists today because there are no enforced rules about these things. They probably are listed in the trade agreement but there isn't any real enforcement.

And most of these trade agreements have language that supports retraining workers whose jobs are lost. Evidently that retraining is being taught to say "Do you want fries with that?" But that's not how the trade agreement was portrayed here in the US when they were trying to get them passed in Congress.

It seems that very, very little of the 'pain of readjustment' is being felt by CEO's, board members or owners of preferred stock when it comes to trade agreements.

 

[jblagden]

Globalization and isolationism are not opposite things. Both are bad when taken to extremes. Extreme isolationism gives you things like North Korea. Extreme globalism kills local cultures. You can be "open" and trade fairly without being stupid. Unfortunately it appears that responsible, fair trade relations have been elusive for about the past 24 years, at least.

"Globalization and isolationism are not opposite things.”
They generally try to achieve the same result (prosperity), but through opposite means. Isolationism tries to achieve prosperity by not importing too much. Globalism (supposedly) tries the spread the wealth around, to make everyone prosperous. Yes, you can “be open and trade fairly”, but only if there’s a good balance of trade. You bring up a good point. The hard part is getting that good balance of trade. So far, we’re importing a lot more than we’re exporting. This is the same problem the British faced with India, though I don’t exactly approve of their method for reversing the problem - selling opium to India.

 

[ChrisCW11]

The back of every Apple product will have this in 5 years:

"Designed in China, Made in China, Money in Ireland, Ego in California"

 

[jblagden]

I don't understand the comments about wanting Tim to be a good CEO, but not political.

Businesss with China is very important to Apple's profits and so it's critical for Tim to be politically involved.

The goal is to not offend anyone. Politics are one of the most volatile topics. If you don’t want to offend people politically, don’t talk about politics. A company that talks about politics as Cook does, shoots itself in the foot, just like Barney Fife. It’s time for Apple to unload its political gun and put the bullets in its pocket.
[doublepost=1490026494][/doublepost]

And I hope he doesn't ever. You cannot pick and choose and expect people to take you seriously. He acts all indignant that the US Government wants access to phones, and he kisses the ass of the COMMUNIST government of China. Duplicitous, self-serving arrogance. Do as I say, not as I do.
[doublepost=1490024304][/doublepost]

Absolutely, I do not buy the Top end products at all from Apple. I buy the technology, but certainly not the overpriced versions of the hardware.

With that talk about Communists, you’re starting to remind me of Granite Flats. At this point, the communists aren’t a big issue militarily - radical muslims have taken their place in that regard. Well, unless you count North Korea.

 

[LizKat]

I hear what you're saying but history will say that maintaining the statuts quo, no matter how grand and successful, is NOT enough to jump the innovation curve. Every DAY they just milk the iPhone they are slipping behind. Steve Jobs was a product visionary and that is THE foundation that Apples success has been built upon. Without product vision they are just a commodity in a very competitive market. I don't believe Apple currently has the leadership necessary to continue their historical success. If they don't get it together in a few short years people will be in shock wondering how the hell Apple lost it. Well, they lost it in the past after they fired Jobs. They came roaring back after he returned. Without a product visionary willing to take risks, they are just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic. Cook hasn't a freaking clue when it comes to products and Ive can't grasp the big picture. Sure they both can obsess on the "perfect chamfered radius" of the corners of an iPhone or MacBook. That's execution....not vision and not leadership. They haven't a clue at the moment. They are bluffing and blowing smoke up peoples behind. Otherwise, Cook wouldn't be jet setting around the globe like some prima donna globalist oligarch. I might be wrong but I call them like I see them. Cook is doing what he knows to do and he's NOT a product guy. Apple is basically NUC at the moment. Drifting into irrelevance. It's very painful and upsetting to see whats going on.

I sure don't have the same feeling of dread about Apple's prospects that I had when Sculley was cranking out beige boxes because he could... and I do think there's stuff on Apple's drawing board about which we've no clue and will be delighted to see show up.

My concerns about Apple lately are perhaps more about their scaling up to demand and (thus?) a perceptible issue with QA on some things. Not that they don't get addressed, but that some issues get by to begin with. Not sure what that's about, i.e. not enough staff or not enough oversight, and by whom at what point from design to on-shelf.

Also I have some concerns about software, specifically that a clear enough line remain between OS and iOS so that consumers who still actually use a computer for something besides simple playback of entertainment can be reassured that Apple's not moving into some "post-computer" age prematurely. Where imo "prematurely" is... ever.

I'll provide an example of that and stick to entertainment to try to make the point. As an avid user of desktop (well... laptop) iTunes since its inception, I have also been unhappy at loss of some of the very non-iOS features it used to offer, like having multiple playlists open at once for editing, visual rearrangement of shuffled lists, using option-shuffle to get one that looked right and so forth.

It's not that I don't like using mobile Apple gear to play music but I regard iTunes as far more than that, as a workhorse of keeping my libraries and playlists useful to me. And frankly every time I see a new version of iTunes now there's concern in the back of my mind whether this is the dreaded "Big One" in which I will discover that Apple actually thinks no one makes use of multiple iTunes libraries and the option-Open feature. If that day comes you will see the launch trail of my having gone ballistic...

So bottom line for me is perhaps less the visionary "... one more thing" and more "please clean this up" but "please don't wreck it while you're cleaning it up". Maybe that's my age. I confess thinking that I'd probably lbe more interested in the Apple watch if I were somewhere in the 20-50 age range. I know I have to work out to stay alive but I don't need a watch to remind me, my knees do that if I sit around for an hour LOL. And money-wise I have zero interest in whatever Apple's doing w/ self-driving cars since my idea of a right-priced car is about $5k for a judiciously used one at least six years old so the recalls have been discovered...

Still, I'm not dead yet and I do like seeing innovations in form and function for regular computing. The touch bar is intriguing. I'd love it if we had durable rollup computers with two flat and flexible pieces, one under hand for virtual keyboard of one's choice and the other a monitor... could stick the whole thing in a storage tube like a yoga mat and sling it into a backpack. When Tim does the keynote on that one I'll be watching for sure.

 

[0098386]

In the end Cook and others support trade with China fir one thing and one thing only. That is high profits. Sadly they do this turning a blind eye to the horrors of the Chinese government and the state of the people working for them. Frankly it is a bit disgusting to see these public specticles that Cook is putting on and has me seriously thinking about my relationship with Apple that has existed since 2008.

Please. The American "world police" image is tiring. I'm (currently) left wing (used to be right wing but recently lost my selfish streak) but totally understand that each country is run differently. That in itself is a big part of globalisation - understanding and utilising the pros and cons of each country. I find it funny people against that would support Trump considering how he does business but there you go.

Why holiday abroad, if you're American you could just visit Texas if you want a hot vacation or Aspen if you want a cold one. No need to experience other cultures or deal with weird foreign customs and food.

 

[MrX8503]

The goal is to not offend anyone. Politics are one of the most volatile topics. If you don’t want to offend people politically, don’t talk about politics. A company that talks about politics as Cook does, shoots itself in the foot, just like Barney Fife. It’s time for Apple to unload its political gun and put the bullets in its pocket.

Which is why Tim Cook didn't talk about transgender rights in China, like some posters are criticizing him for. Tim's goal in China was to smooth trade relations and that's what he focused on.

 

[jblagden]

Which is why Tim Cook didn't talk about transgender rights in China, like some posters are criticizing him for. Tim's goal in China was to smooth trade relations and that's what he focused on.

Exactly.
[doublepost=1490027531][/doublepost]

Please. The American "world police" image is tiring. I'm (currently) left wing (used to be right wing but recently lost my selfish streak) but totally understand that each country is run differently. That in itself is a big part of globalisation - understanding and utilising the pros and cons of each country. I find it funny people against that would support Trump considering how he does business but there you go.

Why holiday abroad, if you're American you could just visit Texas if you want a hot vacation or Aspen if you want a cold one. No need to experience other cultures or deal with weird foreign customs and food.

We support Trump because as a businessman, he understands how business works. If anybody can turn the U.S. economy around, he can. I’m interested in the politician who actually can make the changes I want, not just one who says he wants to. An issue of ability vs intention.

 

[0098386]

Exactly.
[doublepost=1490027531][/doublepost]
We support Trump because as a businessman, he understands how business works. If anybody can turn the U.S. economy around, he can. I’m interested in the politician who actually can make the changes I want, not just one who says he wants to. An issue of ability vs intention.

So do you or do you not understand why, for the longest time spanning a couple of CEOs and presidents, that Apple have manufactured their devices in China? I do worry that there are two people - those that understand the world and economies move forward, and those that want to return to (usually, globally) the 1950's.

What benefit does manufacturing these devices in America bring to the *rest of the world*?

If profits are important and Trump demands Apple manufacture in the US, couldn't they just move their HQ to a cupboard in a more freedom-leaning country?

 

[jblagden]

So do you or do you not understand why, for the longest time spanning a couple of CEOs and presidents, that Apple have manufactured their devices in China? I do worry that there are two people - those that understand the world and economies move forward, and those that want to return to (usually, globally) the 1950's.

What benefit does manufacturing these devices in America bring to the *rest of the world*?

If profits are important and Trump demands Apple manufacture in the US, couldn't they just move their HQ to a cupboard in a more freedom-leaning country?

Yes, I’m well aware that extremely high profits are why Apple manufactures in China. Yes, I realize they probably won’t manufacture here. But getting Apple to manufacture here isn’t the end goal of “America first”, but rather to get a good amount of jobs here, regardless of who provides them.

 

[0098386]

Yes, I’m well aware that extremely high profits are why Apple manufactures in China. Yes, I realize they probably won’t manufacture here. But getting Apple to manufacture here isn’t the end goal of “America first”, but rather to get a good amount of jobs here, regardless of who provides them.

But those jobs won't come back and it's incredibly dumb to believe that could happen without America becoming a poorer country first. Have you stopped to considering what the running theme is for manufacturing countries?

What I think has been highlighted is the state of the education system in America - and what a mess that has made.

 

[jblagden]

But those jobs won't come back and it's incredibly dumb to believe that could happen without America becoming a poorer country first. Have you stopped to considering what the running theme is for manufacturing countries?

What I think has been highlighted is the state of the education system in America - and what a mess that has made.

In other words, liberal policies are the problem.

 

[phillipduran]

What else was he suppose to do? Go to China and trash them when all the phones are made there and all the manufacturing is cheapest there for consumer electronics and Apple wants to continue to work with the Chinese etc. etc. They don't have laws that protect businesses from the government as it relates to free speech.

Yes and what that is called is integrity.

 

[BlandUsername]

The goal is to not offend anyone. Politics are one of the most volatile topics. If you don’t want to offend people politically, don’t talk about politics. A company that talks about politics as Cook does, shoots itself in the foot, just like Barney Fife. It’s time for Apple to unload its political gun and put the bullets in its pocket.
[doublepost=1490026494][/doublepost]
With that talk about Communists, you’re starting to remind me of Granite Flats. At this point, the communists aren’t a big issue militarily - radical muslims have taken their place in that regard. Well, unless you count North Korea.

The goal is to not offend anyone. Politics are one of the most volatile topics. If you don’t want to offend people politically, don’t talk about politics. A company that talks about politics as Cook does, shoots itself in the foot, just like Barney Fife. It’s time for Apple to unload its political gun and put the bullets in its pocket.
[doublepost=1490026494][/doublepost]
With that talk about Communists, you’re starting to remind me of Granite Flats. At this point, the communists aren’t a big issue militarily - radical muslims have taken their place in that regard. Well, unless you count North Korea.

The people of Taiwan are frowning at that.

 

[You are the One]

Quite a well behaved discussion on an emotionally loaded issue. Kudos to MR, the mods and the people here.

 

[Sam_S]

It's fine for all these MacRumors economists to go on tirades against globalization, but are you ready to stop complaining that iPhones are too expensive? Right now you're reaping the benefits of clothes, gadgets, and toys built by people making $50 a month. It seems to me that it's a little hypocritical to call Cook a hypocrite when our unrivaled standard of living (the American "poor" have cellphones and jewelry) is supported by people who have unimaginably less.

I agree in principle with those who've observed that Cook should be pressing China on human rights, but how hard can he push when they completely have the upper hand? He really has two options: swallow hard and try to benefit the stockholders by expanding into China, or swallow hard and take a moral stance against Chinese authoritarianism, limiting Apple's growth into that market. It's the classic tension between practicality and riteousness. When you're the CEO of one of the world's biggest multinationals, you've got to choose the time and place for each, and the only guarantee is that either way you're going to piss off someone. Especially here.

The only people getting the real benefit of globalisation are those at the TOP, not us. Costs of goods shouldn't go up if manufacturing was brought back to the US, the big bonuses and profits of these top companies should decrease (that would be the morally right thing to do).

But of course in the real world costs would go up so guys like Tim Cook, a greedy liar, can continue to make millions.

 

[Deuce on the Clock]

What exactly did he say that you found so outrageous?

Imagine that, a CEO representing his company trying to get sales out of China. What the heck was he thinking? I'm certain no other CEO of a company the size of Apple would dare do such a thing.

Apple and Tim claim all the time to "fight" for those who need help and always stand up to diversity. They cry foul over hot topic political issues involving discrimination, racism, and sexism. Yet they do business in a country who violates human rights to make a dollar. Proving all the talk is just talk and the all mighty dollar wins. Back up the talk and stop buying China off. Its hypocritical lip service anytime he mentions China.

 

[citysnaps]

Apple and Tim claim all the time to "fight" for those who need help and always stand up to diversity. They cry foul over hot topic political issues involving discrimination, racism, and sexism. Yet they do business in a country who violates human rights to make a dollar. Proving all the talk is just talk and the all mighty dollar wins. Back up the talk and stop buying China off. Its hypocritical lip service anytime he mentions China.

In general, do you stand up for diversity and do you have strong beliefs against discrimination, racism and sexism?

Have you purchased any electronic products made in China?

 

[MH01]

In general, do you stand up for diversity and do you have strong beliefs against discrimination, racism and sexism?

Have you purchased any electronic products made in China?

Can I add that there is a huge difference buying a product made in China , in US , AUS UK etc and having a stance against discrimination , racism and sexism, and running a company in china and making a profit of said devices while ignoring what is happening cause I put profits first .

Don't blame the end user, they are not making profits . If I run a company, I choose who I do business with , and stand by my beliefs .

And my preference was always to buy Japanese made electronics .

 

[citysnaps]

Can I add that there is a huge difference buying a product made in China , in US , AUS UK etc and having a stance against discrimination , racism and sexism, and running a company in china and making a profit of said devices while ignoring what is happening cause I put profits first .

Don't blame the end user, they are not making profits . If I run a company, I choose who I do business with , and stand by my beliefs .

And my preference was always to buy Japanese made electronics .

And you are putting your love of low-cost electronics and gadgets first. No, there's absolutely no difference. You're copping out and justifying your support because you are unwilling to pay much higher prices for the electronics and gadgets you crave. That's a choice you and millions of others have made.

By making such purchases you are supporting companies who flood billions of dollars into countries that have societal norms and systems that may be at odds with yours. You are responsible for supporting such norms with your purchases.

If you and others stood up and refused to buy electronic products manufactured in China, companies manufacturing those products would go elsewhere for manufacturing at a much greater cost.

Where are your Japanese electronics made?

 

[MH01]

And you are putting your love of low-cost electronics and gadgets first. No, there's absolutely no difference. You're copping out and justifying your support because you are unwilling to pay much higher prices for the electronics and gadgets you crave. That's a choice you and millions of others have made.

By making such purchases you are supporting companies who flood billions of dollars into countries that have societal norms and systems that may be at odds with yours. You are responsible for supporting such norms with your purchases.

If you and others stood up and refused to buy electronic products manufactured in China, companies manufacturing those products would go elsewhere for manufacturing at a much greater cost.

Where are your Japanese electronics made?

Like I have a choice ? I have apple computers made in the US, as I'm deep in the ecosystem, where do you recommend I turn for my OS? Apple has a choice where they manufacture .

My Japanese gear....mostly Japan thank you. As it consists of photography gear. Majority of my L lenses are from Japan.