Apple Demands Microsoft Pull Laptop Hunter Ads

[coleridge78]

Err... where do you get "a lot of problems"? I have tons of equipment, and my equipment is exceptionally spoiled in terms of non-abusive treatment. The only thing that ever broke in here apart from the iMac was a 3 year old Dell gaming PC whose motherboard died. It's not a 'dirty power' issue, if I had power surges in here the lightbulbs would be popping like mad but they don't. It's just a bad iMac that was poorly repaired. As for the MBP, it had a bad battery out of the box so that's hardly my doing.

Not sure where a "local distributor" fits into this, my Macs were bought via the online Apple Store and shipped from the nearest European Apple depot in the Netherlands.

I got "a lot of problems" from the way you characterized your experiences in your own post. So it's only been two problems out of a large amount of equipment. Well, there ya go. It happens. Sure sounds a lot less like a dramatic "Apple sucks!!!" now, so I can understand why you tried to skew the impression originally.

 

[uberamd]

And new PC hardware sales equate to sales for Microsoft. Very little of new PC sales are for Linux or have no OS installed. So they can attack the hardward and still work on increasing sales.

And since Microsoft doesn't make the hardware, I still think its dumb. Microsoft makes none of the hardware their OS runs on, so they cannot be credited for the "sweet" PC's in these commercials, in any way, shape, or form. The fact that they never touch on the OS either means that in essence Microsoft is saying "Apple makes cool hardware, but its expensive. HP makes cool hardware, and its less money. The OS? We assume all customers know about that so we don't talk about operating systems."

 

[uberamd]

The cult of Apple is showing cracks. IMHO, they may very well have peaked.

I think they will own the MP3 player market for a good, long, time ... but the computer market may be seeing it's best days right now.

$1,299 at Best Buy for an Asus 2.66Ghz I9 with 9GB of Ram, a 1TB Hard Drive and a GTX 260 graphics card.

$2,699 at Best Buy for an Apple 2.66Ghz I9 with 3GB of Ram, 640GB Hard drive and a GT 120 graphics card.

Twice the price, half the hardware.

It's just not making sense anymore, kids.

Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Got that? Its not just about specs.

 

[belvdr]

And since Microsoft doesn't make the hardware, I still think its dumb. Microsoft makes none of the hardware their OS runs on, so they cannot be credited for the "sweet" PC's in these commercials, in any way, shape, or form. The fact that they never touch on the OS either means that in essence Microsoft is saying "Apple makes cool hardware, but its expensive. HP makes cool hardware, and its less money. The OS? We assume all customers know about that so we don't talk about operating systems."

You can think it's dumb. I'm not contesting that nor do I care.

I am contesting:

I agree that this is basically advertising for laptop manufacturers, and has little to do with Microsoft

The ad certainly has something in it for Microsoft. If they convince someone to buy an HP, whether it is because the hardware is perceived cooler/nicer/etc, Microsoft gets another sale. The whole point of advertising is to drive sales. They have just taken a different view of it.

 

[Victor Odin]

Okay...your thinking is not warped this is just my opinion on the matter. So you walk into a store and you are going to buy a computer. If you see the MBP you are going to say wow thats a lot of money. Then if you go to the Windows section you will say hmm...these are cheeper. But why is that? In my opinion, the MBP is a higher end machine than the laptop the person walks out of the store with. Apple doesn't really make a "low end" computer, which right or wrong is in a way being exploited by Microsoft.

A $1,300 laptop computer with integrated graphics is extraordinarily "low-end" compared to any PC-equivalent in it's price range.

I don't think you can find a PC with similar Apple specs at the same price.

Face it, without a religion backing the products up, they wouldn't sell.

That's why Apple has positions such as "chief evangelist".

The hardware is the same commodity crap that everyone else uses, marked up 2x to 3x as much.

Paying a corporate conglomerate for permission to "think different" is anything but.

 

[belvdr]

Duplicate post. - Deleted

 

[Victor Odin]

Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Its not just about specs. Got that? Its not just about specs.

Yes, yes, I know.

It has nothing to do with specs.

It's all about religion.

 

[blufire]

He did cartwheels down the hallway. Must be Ballmer's protegé.

 

[thunderclap]

Generally, a Mac does cost more for similar hardware, relative to a PC - but the TV commercials are, at best, vague about the specs on the PC laptops. I know the "hunter" mentions some features they would like to see, but we never see any real feature-for-feature comparison.

I might get blasted for this, but this isn't entirely true. I'm actually in the process of building a Hackintosh to replace my three month old iMac. The iMac is the Core 2 Duo 3.06GHz with 4GB RAM, an nVidia 130GT, 1TB hard drive and a SuperDrive. It cost me around $2350 after tax. For the same price I've built a system with an Intel i7 Core 2.66GHz, 6GB RAM, nVidia 9800GT, two 1TB drives (one for OS X and the other for Windows) and a LG Blu-Ray burner. When it was all said and done it cost the same as the iMac, including Mac Box Set, Vista 64-bit OEM and EFI-x (EFI dongle to get OS X running).

Does Apple charge more? Sure. Just look at how much they charge to upgrade the iMac memory from 4GB to 8GB. $1000. There is no way memory costs that much. I don't like the term "Apple Tax" though. It's branding. You always pay more for brand name. Nike does it. Kraft does it. And Apple does it. Big deal. The difference between Mac and PC i that PC has many variations creating a lot more competition than Apple. If clones of Mac were allowed to happen I guarantee you that Apple prices would drop.

But... to get back on topic (sorry about that) if Apple did this it's a bit hypocritical. Though I don't doubt MS is embellishing the story a bit.

 

[gloomcookie1]

Yes, yes, I know.

It has nothing to do with specs.

It's all about religion.

Lol...and a 95% following is what?...dumb luck?

..or just don't know any better?

 

[uberamd]

A $1,300 laptop computer with integrated graphics is extraordinarily "low-end" compared to any PC-equivalent in it's price range.

I don't think you can find a PC with similar Apple specs at the same price.

Face it, without a religion backing the products up, they wouldn't sell.

That's why Apple has positions such as "chief evangelist".

The hardware is the same commodity crap that everyone else uses, marked up 2x to 3x as much.

Paying a corporate conglomerate for permission to "think different" is anything but.

Lets touch on some of MY experiences with Mac after switching from PC

• Better build quality - solid systems that felt sturdy, didn't get wobbly screens, looked great on my desk, had nice keyboards that were not loud when typing during class (unlike some PC's with LOUD keyboards), thin profile, sleek design, better operating system, better battery life, better display
• US based tech support makes me not fear having to call for help because I will actually be able to understand the tech I am talking to
• Quick turnaround time on repairs, 2 days per repair in my experiences
• Better resale value. Buy a PC and a few years later its worth next to nothing. Buy a Mac and you can resell it for a LOT more than a PC. They hold their value

Buy hey, I guess I am just crazy and overpaid for a worse system, right?

 

[ironman4life]

First of all, if Apple did drop the price because of these ads, then the ads have backfired for Microsoft, they've just made their competitors products more affordable and secondly, Apple's bumped the specs of it's laptop as well and if Microsoft is still showing ads with misleading information then Apple has every right to call Microsoft. I don't actually know what ads are being shown right now cause I live in Australia and haven't actually seen any on tv but the one with sheila in it says that the best Mac under $2000 only has 2gb of ram. There are now 3 Mac laptops under that price with 4gb and another 2 can be upgraded to get 4gb and still be under $2000. The macbook is only $1100 with 4gb

 

[coleridge78]

A $1,300 laptop computer with integrated graphics is extraordinarily "low-end" compared to any PC-equivalent in it's price range.

I don't think you can find a PC with similar Apple specs at the same price.

Face it, without a religion backing the products up, they wouldn't sell.

That's why Apple has positions such as "chief evangelist".

The hardware is the same commodity crap that everyone else uses, marked up 2x to 3x as much.

Paying a corporate conglomerate for permission to "think different" is anything but.

1. Your argument is specious, as every Apple laptop currently in production uses a discrete NVIDIA GPU. Argue about the quality of the card, but it is not integrated. CORRECTION: Some of these NVIDIAs are still integrated, but comparable Dell and Asus laptops, at the same price points, also use integrated NVIDIA or ATI Mobility chips. So, you're still wrong. It's not "low-end" compared to PCs in its price range, it's the same thing.

2. Cherry-pick much? If you can't find *anything* that a $1300 Apple laptop has over a $1300 Dell or Asus, you're either ignorant or lying. Start with having to buy two extra batteries to equal the battery life... upgrading the screen from the base advertised price...

 

[MarkCollette]

I'm glad these ads are playing (except the ones with outdated prices and specs), since pressure on Apple can only help us as consumers to get better value.

 

[Wikinerd]

He did cartwheels down the hallway. Must be Ballmer's protegé.

Small minute difference—Ballmer *thumps* down the hallway with sweaty 'pits, Turner cartwheels.

PS. Sorry. Just can't imagine what the building would look like after Ballmer did cartwheels.

 

[Interesting_Way_924]

For those of you who want to know the REAL reason why Apple likely called Microsoft, read the above link.

The Microsoft COO isn't telling the whole story – just an entertaining one.

I mean that's pretty freaking biased too, the MacDailyNews site. On one end you can take the COO's words face value or you can take MacDailyNews' biased analysis. I think you center yourself and understand the whole situation.

MacDailyNews is complaining that the ad targets the $1999 MBP. It's now $1899 I suppose. But MDN insists that Microsoft is cheating and should be comparing against the $1699 MBP. Who cares. If Microsoft chooses to target the $1999 MBP it should update the add to reflect $1899 or pull it. It's a $100 difference.

The site goes into a frenzy about how this is illegal, a sly move, etc etc. It's just an old Ad. Microsoft didn't make it expecting Apple to lower prices and then to keep slinging false numbers around. If apple lowered prices first, Microsoft could still run the same ad using the $1899 number.

When MS says "This Mac costs $2000" they really mean $1900 now. WOW BIG DIFFERENCE. But MDN insists they compare it against the $1699 model. Idiots. The $1699 as we all know is a downgrade. It loses the 9600GT. I don't think MS was intent on comparing against that anyway because who spends $2000 on a PC for an integrated GF9400?

As for MDN saying that the ads are working wonderfully for Apple, they're not. MS saw a greater response in the laptop hunter ads than Apple's recent Mac vs PC ads. Sure the Mac vs PC ads may have made a huge difference in the beginning, but if anything the laptop hunter ads are more influential now.

So I say a big THUMBSDOWN to MacDailyNews because their "Analysis" is really just a spin on the news.

1. Your argument is specious, as every Apple laptop currently in production uses a discrete NVIDIA GPU. Argue about the quality of the card, but it is not integrated.

2. Cherry-pick much? If you can't find *anything* that a $1300 Apple laptop has over a $1300 Dell or Asus, you're either ignorant or lying. Start with having to buy two extra batteries to equal the battery life... upgrading the screen from the base advertised price...

Maybe but for $1300 you can get pretty damn good stuff. Actually the only thing my MBP had over a $1300 Dell XPS 15.4" that I saw exactly 2 weeks after I got my MBP was weight. The $1300 XPS deal trounced my MBP by far. 2.53ghz, 320gb drive, 4gb ram, etc etc. I paid for my 4GB ram upgrade last year (I got the early '08 MBP) and the default was the 2.4ghz etc etc.

Look, the battery for the Apple laptop is great because of lithium polymer. Once again, you're comparing Apple's battery lifetime under OS X and EXTREME SPEEDSTEP settings against a Windows machine. Look at how well the MBP does under Vista. Not that great. Lithium polymer isn't a huge advancement in technology. It doesn't take much for Dell or HP to integrate them.

Oh and I wouldn't be surprised if the PCs have replaceable batteries.

 

[Eidorian]

1. Your argument is specious, as every Apple laptop currently in production uses a discrete NVIDIA GPU. Argue about the quality of the card, but it is not integrated.

The 9400M G is an integrated graphics solution. Apple isn't the only vendor that uses it either. The M780G is a competitor as well.

 

[Bad Paper]

I call shenanigans.

 

[Victor Odin]

Lol...and a 95% following is what?...dumb luck?

..or just don't know any better?

Yes. Kind of like Christianity.

 

[Silverado]

Yeah, right. I call BS.

 

[Wikinerd]

I mean that's pretty freaking biased too, the MacDailyNews site. On one end you can take the COO's words face value or you can take MacDailyNews' biased analysis. I think you center yourself and understand the whole situation.

MacDailyNews is complaining that the ad targets the $1999 MBP. It's now $1899 I suppose. But MDN insists that Microsoft is cheating and should be comparing against the $1699 MBP. Who cares. If Microsoft chooses to target the $1999 MBP it should update the add to reflect $1899 or pull it. It's a $100 difference.

The site goes into a frenzy about how this is illegal, a sly move, etc etc. It's just an old Ad. Microsoft didn't make it expecting Apple to lower prices and then to keep slinging false numbers around. If apple lowered prices first, Microsoft could still run the same ad using the $1899 number.

When MS says "This Mac costs $2000" they really mean $1900 now. WOW BIG DIFFERENCE. But MDN insists they compare it against the $1699 model. Idiots. The $1699 as we all know is a downgrade. It loses the 9600GT. I don't think MS was intent on comparing against that anyway because who spends $2000 on a PC for an integrated GF9400?

As for MDN saying that the ads are working wonderfully for Apple, they're not. MS saw a greater response in the laptop hunter ads than Apple's recent Mac vs PC ads. Sure the Mac vs PC ads may have made a huge difference in the beginning, but if anything the laptop hunter ads are more influential now.

So I say a big THUMBSDOWN to MacDailyNews because their "Analysis" is really just a spin on the news.

The previous-$1999 equivalent 15" model is now $1699. The current mid-end 15" is $1999, high end at $2,299. But, one of the more blatant mistakes they made was a picture of a $1,199 MBP 13" to go with the tag.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysbi5v_p7Q4

See 0:20 and 0:23.

 

[coleridge78]

The 9400M G is an integrated graphics solution. Apple isn't the only vendor that uses it either. The M780G is a competitor as well.

Indeed. I just corrected my post, leaving in but noting the error. Thanks.

 

[donny77]

I might get blasted for this, but this isn't entirely true. I'm actually in the process of building a Hackintosh to replace my three month old iMac. The iMac is the Core 2 Duo 3.06GHz with 4GB RAM, an nVidia 130GT, 1TB hard drive and a SuperDrive. It cost me around $2350 after tax. For the same price I've built a system with an Intel i7 Core 2.66GHz, 6GB RAM, nVidia 9800GT, two 1TB drives (one for OS X and the other for Windows) and a LG Blu-Ray burner. When it was all said and done it cost the same as the iMac, including Mac Box Set, Vista 64-bit OEM and EFI-x (EFI dongle to get OS X running).

Does Apple charge more? Sure. Just look at how much they charge to upgrade the iMac memory from 4GB to 8GB. $1000. There is no way memory costs that much. I don't like the term "Apple Tax" though. It's branding. You always pay more for brand name. Nike does it. Kraft does it. And Apple does it. Big deal. The difference between Mac and PC i that PC has many variations creating a lot more competition than Apple. If clones of Mac were allowed to happen I guarantee you that Apple prices would drop.

But... to get back on topic (sorry about that) if Apple did this it's a bit hypocritical. Though I don't doubt MS is embellishing the story a bit.

You can't compare an iMac to a PC headless workstation IMHO. Why? iMacs are basically laptops on a stick. Laptops cost more than PCs do to engineering requirement and non commodity hardware. As for upgrades, yes I would never pay for memory direct from Apple. Good thing there is no reason too. I'd also never pay for more memory from Dell, HP, or IBM. I can get it cheaper myself. Mac are high end because they have features like Bluetooth and FireWire. Getting those same features on a PC cuses the price difference to disappear. Don't want FireWire and Bluetooth? Great get a PC.

 

[Victor Odin]

Buy hey, I guess I am just crazy and overpaid for a worse system, right?

I don't know if you are crazy, but you did overpay for a worse system.

For a $300 warranty, you shouldn't just get U.S.-based tech support, but you should get orally serviced every time you walk into an Apple store.

The "build quality" is nonsense.

Apple has just as many (if not more) hardware issues as anyone else. Especially given that they have so few configurations to choose from compared to PC's.

http://www.appledefects.com/

 

[Victor Odin]

Mac are high end because they have features like Bluetooth and FireWire. Getting those same features on a PC cuses the price difference to disappear. Don't want FireWire and Bluetooth? Great get a PC.

Oh, geez, I am laughing my ass off.

Really?

I mean, REALLY???

I have both bluetooth and firewire, plus HDMI on an $800 HP laptop.

Being an Apple fanboy entails almost perpetual denial.