Apple Expands Do-It-Yourself Repair Program to M3 Macs

[foobarbaz]

actually counterproductive for the environment. Delivering and posting back all those support materials has a carbon footprint too.

I think you're vastly underestimating the ratio of emissions from producing hardware or spare parts versus shipping, if you call it counterproductive.

Depending on where they are shipping from, the emissions from shipping even a heavy box could be less than a trip to a local Apple Store (or independent repair shop) in a car by yourself.

 

[Fuzzball84]

I think you're vastly underestimating the ratio of emissions from producing hardware or spare parts versus shipping, if you call it counterproductive.

Depending on where they are shipping from, the emissions from shipping even a heavy box could be less than a trip to a local Apple Store (or independent repair shop) in a car by yourself.

I think you're vastly underestimating the ratio of emissions from producing hardware or spare parts versus shipping, if you call it counterproductive.

Depending on where they are shipping from, the emissions from shipping even a heavy box could be less than a trip to a local Apple Store (or independent repair shop) in a car by yourself.

You can send your item to apple for repair… why deliver the tools and equipment to repair the item when you can post said item much more cheaply and with a much lower carbon footprint… or drop it off at an Apple store on your usual commute or shopping trip?

 

[cicalinarrot]

Ok, we make devices as unrepairable as physically possible but… hey, here’s a screwdriver and some overpriced components, good look with that.

 

[theluggage]

Can you explain to me how an M3 MacBook is MORE reparable than my 2012 MacBook Pro, whose battery, HD/SSD, RAM, and screen I've easily replaced without desoldering or melting glues?

I think the 2012 "classic" Mac Pro was the last really repairable/upgradable MBP and things went severely downhill from then. However, Even iFixit thinks that things improved with the 2021 14/16" MBPs - albeit not back to the good old days.

I'm not going defend everything, but there are a few mitigating factors:

LPDDR (low power) RAM has never been user-upgradeable on any system that uses it. It has to be surface-mount soldered close to the CPU to minimise the power needed to drive signals along the busses. Yes, Apple mounts the RAM directly on the chip package rather than the logic board, but that's not why it can't be upgraded. Only very recently have Samsung announced a new system of press-fit modules to allow user upgradeable LPDDR RAM which may start showing up in products soon, although I somewhat doubt Apple will use it (unless the M4 is going to have wings...!) so that argument may change in the future.

Glued-in, or otherwise hard to replace, batteries are probably a consequence of the drive for thinner and lighter laptops (which Apple backpedalled on slightly in 2021). It's not just glue vs. screws: lithium batteries have a nasty tendency to go foom if damaged, so any easily user-removable battery has to be made with a more robust enclosure so that it is safe to handle after it has been removed. Old school battery compartments add bulk and weight to the laptop and need a battery that can survive being chucked in a suitcase on its own. Plus Apple have gone for multi-module batteries that allow them to squeeze more battery in the case.

One thing I really won't defend, though, is soldered-in SSDs on anything bigger than a tablet. Most solid-state components can have manufacturing faults, suffer thermal or static damage, come unsoldered etc. but they don't actually wear out due to frequent use. SSDs do wear out - they fail after a finite number of write operations, and while modern tech means that this shouldn't be hit within the "typical" lifespan of a product it could still be exacerbated by a software fault or malware. Also, while there are technical ways to effectively erase data from SSDs and encryption should make it a non-issue (because nobody ever found a flaw in an encryption scheme, right?) nothing beats yanking the drive out and destroying it/locking it away. The Mac Studio & Mac Pro show that there's no technical issue with having removable SSD modules on Apple Silicon - which support user replacement even if Apple blocks upgrades.

 

[Lakersfan74]

My time is worth something so I would rather go to a professional and have a warranty.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I feel this is well intentioned but mostly unpractical and actually counterproductive for the environment. Delivering and posting back all those support materials has a carbon footprint too.

And its all because the products are not made with repair in mind in the first instance.

The carbon footprint is likely mostly unchanged for Macs. Apple ships repair parts to authorized service providers Fedex priority overnight, bad part return is Fedex 2-day.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

iFixit will be complaining by the end of the day.

Their entire business is about complaining about this. Then selling you crap parts and tools. Obviously if Apple do right then it compromises their business, so they will find increasingly bizarre things to whine about.

You are incredibly wrong.

iFixit started as a way for people to publish repair guides for Apple products when Apple kept the service manuals a secret. This lead to them promoting the right to repair because Apple was so hostile about the information.

They later added the business, selling high quality parts and tools. They're one of the few suppliers I'll trust for lithium ion batteries. And their tools are excellent quality, the only failures I've ever had with them are tiny pentalobe bits, and those are so inherently fragile that even Wera drivers don't last long. iFixit tools also have a lifetime warranty, so just like Wera they'll replace bits that fail, even if they're used in a repair business.

 

[Fuzzball84]

There seems to be quite a few angry people about regarding issues like this… i have one person who seems really angry about all the comments ive posted regarding the environment and Apple…

I dont know… maybe they are in Texas and want us to stay on fossil fuels a bit longer….and think repairability and longevity of products is “woke”. 🤔

 

[Victor Mortimer]

My time is worth something so I would rather go to a professional and have a warranty.

Ok. Nobody's stopping you.

You probably should be aware that if your Apple product was already out of warranty, Apple's price for a repair is... high, the warranty is only 90 days, and only covers the replaced component, not the entire device.

You're better off going to a 3rd party shop, they frequently offer longer warranties for lower prices.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

There seems to be quite a few angry people about regarding issues like this… i have one person who seems really angry about all the comments ive posted regarding the environment and Apple…

I dont know… maybe they are in Texas and want us to stay on fossil fuels a bit longer….and think repairability and longevity of products is “woke”. 🤔

No, it's because what you're saying in this thread has nothing to do with reality.

You take your Mac to Apple for repair, the parts get shipped to the Apple store. You ship your Mac for a depot repair, both the Mac and the parts get shipped to the repair depot, then your Mac gets shipped back to you.

This has ZERO impact on the carbon footprint of repair. It's the same footprint. It doesn't have a different impact.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Quietly waiting for the complainers to come out saying how this is not enough

Wouldn’t “quietly” have meant also not posting about it?

 

[gaximus]

Can you explain to me how an M3 MacBook is MORE reparable than my 2012 MacBook Pro, whose battery, HD/SSD, RAM, and screen I've easily replaced without desoldering or melting glues?

No where did the OP say "MORE" reparable, just with reparablility in mind. Of course its made wit repairability in mind. Just not for you to repair it. They want you to buy a new one, trade in your old one, they repair it, sell it as refurbished, and make a profit off of a used product that was easily repaired by them. Or repair it your self, paying profit margins on every part you need to replace, likely F it up, then buy a new one anyway. It's almost like Apple is running a business trying to make money, like...buying their stock has benefits. I almost think they know what they are doing.

 

[Fuzzball84]

No, it's because what you're saying in this thread has nothing to do with reality.

You take your Mac to Apple for repair, the parts get shipped to the Apple store. You ship your Mac for a depot repair, both the Mac and the parts get shipped to the repair depot, then your Mac gets shipped back to you.

This has ZERO impact on the carbon footprint of repair. It's the same footprint. It doesn't have a different impact.

I disagree with you, this thread is about self repair… what you described above has nothing to do with the topic or anything I've said. You are comparing two situations that do not involve self repair?

And look at what you said… the two situations involve dofferent number of transport journeys… so are infact different and likely have differing carbon footprints. You shot yourself in the foot.

 

[Fuzzball84]

Ok. Nobody's stopping you.

You probably should be aware that if your Apple product was already out of warranty, Apple's price for a repair is... high, the warranty is only 90 days, and only covers the replaced component, not the entire device.

You're better off going to a 3rd party shop, they frequently offer longer warranties for lower prices.

Third part shops can vary hugely in quality…. And unless they are apple approved i wouldn't trust them to go anywhere near any of my devices unless i knew them very very well. Dodgy batteries from unscrupulous repair shops can cause fires.

 

[djc6]

This is not well intentioned. Apple is knowingly doing the bare minimum to avoid legal troubles with right to repair laws. This allows them to say, “we allow customers the ability to repair their own products, even if it takes mailing 100 pounds of equipment to their home.”

It’s an insane program that thumbs the nose at governmental consumer protection agencies.

I was thinking about this when the EV project was cancelled. Would they have sent me like 1 ton of tools to swap out a window motor in my Apple EV?

One of the reasons I'm not on the EV train yet is just how unrepairable they are. I usually keep cars long, long after their warranty expires. And EVs are a challenge or impossible to repair in an accident - making insurance rates really high. Hard to get parts, proprietary tools, replacement batteries are crazy expensive, some manufacturers (Tesla) are openly hostile to right to repair. Let me know when parts and tools and information are as readily available as my Mazda Miata.

 

[joelypolly]

Allow me to enlighten you.

When a "self repair" program costs more than taking it to the "authorized repair center," that's just Apple monetizing the fact that you're smart and industrious.

The whole point of acquiring and developing skills is to solve problems for yourself, save money, make economic gain, etc. This is Apple's most ingeniously-malicious compliance yet. Not to mention filthy hypocrisy. They try to make it as enticing as possible to just buy a whole new computer, loading our landfills with otherwise-salvageable machines.

I got lucky with my mom's M1 Macbook Air and was able to replace it with an eBay salvage screen for $200, and only lost True Tone. Otherwise she would have had to replace the entire thing.

Oh, and in case you somehow believe the lies that "authorized technicians" are the only way to get quality work done, let me tell you the number of times I've had an "authorized technician" do the job correctly, whether on my Apple products, car, bike, or anything else I own: ZERO.

Let me tell you the number of times everyone I know has had something come back from an "authorized technician" properly fixed: ZERO.

I don't see anywhere that indicates that prices are higher to DIY vs getting it repaired in store. If you find an example of it please do enlighten me.

Or do you mean that because you don't have the actual tools at home you have to rent them from Apple? Also the M1 MBA screen replacement if you ordered the parts from Apple is $307 USD (price after you return the broken screen). So 100 dollars more than what you paid for a used screen that doesn't work with true tone. So far not feeling super enlightened but please continue.

If you and people you know have never recieved a properly repaired product from authorized technicians I don't what to say. Do you live in some reality with everyone is really ******** at their jobs or at you just making **** up?

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I disagree with you, this thread is about self repair… what you described above has nothing to do with the topic or anything I've said. You are comparing two situations that do not involve self repair?

And look at what you said… the two situations involve dofferent number of transport journeys… so are infact different and likely have differing carbon footprints. You shot yourself in the foot.

You're the one who brought up taking a Mac to Apple for repair:

You can send your item to apple for repair… why deliver the tools and equipment to repair the item when you can post said item much more cheaply and with a much lower carbon footprint… or drop it off at an Apple store on your usual commute or shopping trip?

There are actually FEWER transport journeys for self repair.

If you take your Mac to an Apple store, there's the journey for you to get there, unless you're in a very dense city with good public transit you're going to have to drive. There's your journey home. There's the part's journey from an Apple warehouse (Fedex Priority Overnight) to the Apple store. There's the defective part's journey to depot (Fedex 2-day). There's your journey to the Apple store to pick up the (hopefully) repaired Mac. There's your journey home.

For self repair, there's the part's journey to your house, and there's the defective part's journey to depot. Both are probably going to be the same shipping, Fedex Priority Overnight to you, Fedex 2-day to depot. And that's it.

So, you're right, there IS a difference. Self repair has a LOWER carbon footprint.

 

[TokyoKiller]

From The Verge in August 2022: "Apple spokesperson Patrick Leahy confirmed to The Verge that a battery replacement part will eventually be available, but wouldn’t say when."

Thanks! I actually remember some headline along these lines but couldn't find anything when searching. I feel like this is one of those on off things that was said by one dude and wasn't actually part of any road map. It would be nice to be able to replace the battery only again like old times.

 

[Fuzzball84]

You're the one who brought up taking a Mac to Apple for repair:



There are actually FEWER transport journeys for self repair.

If you take your Mac to an Apple store, there's the journey for you to get there, unless you're in a very dense city with good public transit you're going to have to drive. There's your journey home. There's the part's journey from an Apple warehouse (Fedex Priority Overnight) to the Apple store. There's the defective part's journey to depot (Fedex 2-day). There's your journey to the Apple store to pick up the (hopefully) repaired Mac. There's your journey home.

For self repair, there's the part's journey to your house, and there's the defective part's journey to depot. Both are probably going to be the same shipping, Fedex Priority Overnight to you, Fedex 2-day to depot. And that's it.

So, you're right, there IS a difference. Self repair has a LOWER carbon footprint.

I disagree, completely. You cannot be certain.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Thanks! I actually remember some headline along these lines but couldn't find anything when searching. I feel like this is one of those on off things that was said by one dude and wasn't actually part of any road map. It would be nice to be able to replace the battery only again like old times.

You absolutely can. Just get it from iFixit, OWC, or other reputable battery supplier.

There is ZERO reason to waste an entire top case if you just need a battery.

It's absolutely doable, I've done dozens and physically repairing machines is barely even part of my job these days.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I was thinking about this when the EV project was cancelled. Would they have sent me like 1 ton of tools to swap out a window motor in my Apple EV?

One of the reasons I'm not on the EV train yet is just how unrepairable they are. I usually keep cars long, long after their warranty expires. And EVs are a challenge or impossible to repair in an accident - making insurance rates really high. Hard to get parts, proprietary tools, replacement batteries are crazy expensive, some manufacturers (Tesla) are openly hostile to right to repair. Let me know when parts and tools and information are as readily available as my Mazda Miata.

Tesla is hostile in general.

Ford will happily sell you EV parts. They even sell Mustang crate motors if you want to build your own: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Batteries need to be easily replaceable. It shouldn't be that a perfectly working device such as my watch should be obsolete in a year or two just because the battery goes dead.

Isn’t it true, though, that anyone that values “replaceable battery” over all else would consider that prior to purchasing a device WITH a battery? I know if repairability was even in the middle of my list of requirements, I wouldn’t own an Apple Watch.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Wouldn’t “quietly” have meant also not posting about it?

VERRRRRY gentle typing. As long as it was below 50 decibels, I’d rule that as “quietly”. LOL

 

[JonathanX64]

I don't see anywhere that indicates that prices are higher to DIY vs getting it repaired in store. If you find an example of it please do enlighten me.

Or do you mean that because you don't have the actual tools at home you have to rent them from Apple? Also the M1 MBA screen replacement if you ordered the parts from Apple is $307 USD (price after you return the broken screen). So 100 dollars more than what you paid for a used screen that doesn't work with true tone. So far not feeling super enlightened but please continue.

If you and people you know have never recieved a properly repaired product from authorized technicians I don't what to say. Do you live in some reality with everyone is really ******** at their jobs or at you just making **** up?

You do understand that True Tone on their machine does not work because of Apple’s hostile opposition to Right to Repair and to anything good in this world? Also known as serialisation of parts.

Which is why we should never stop. We’ve pushed them far enough to open this stupid Self Service program. We’ll push them towards publishing schematics. We’ll push them towards not serialising parts, or at least not sabotaging your device after you’ve repaired it yourself. We’ll push them towards allowing chips to be bought independently, because otherwise, it’s not a repair, it’s just an overpriced and wasteful replacement of big modular parts.

Just so you can sleep safely, knowing that your Apple device can be repaired easily at any time, with no scam pricing markups, so you won’t have to throw away your $3000 motherboard just because one of the chips has failed on it.

By «us» I mean society as a whole, of course.

 

[rhegyi]

This is a JOKE it's only to fight off the "right to repair" laws.... You have to be insane to pay apple for parts and tool rental and attempt to fix one of the closed systems... Ok pay $3,500 for a MBP and let me take it apart and attempt to fix it. Then you screw it up and have to take it to Apple. I read here someone did a repair from parts from E-bay and hey only lost True Tone functionally....No thanks....We had an Authorized Apple repair facility for 30 years and would not recommend home users doing these repairs.....