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iPhone X Apple is losing its mainstream, non-fan core with the X
- Thread starter MarkB786
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Not that I agree but I think customisation, diversity and cheaper handsets obviously attract some.
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I suppose people will value things like bigger, higher resolution screens, s-pens, iris scanners, better cameras etc
Makes sense on the first part, I guess there will always be a place for cheap phones. All good examples. I personally don't see the value, but I guess some do.
Software is more important than hardware. Then you account for bells and whistles. Actually Samsung S8 is IMO a better device than the iPhone. Samsung has come a long way with implementing Android on their devices. Nothing like the old days.
It’s not about the iPhone or a mobile device. It’s about the ecosystem. Samsung or Android or Google don’t have other hardware that works seamlessly with each other like Apple.
Why do you prefer it? I tried one when they first came out, nice looking phone, hardware seems great. I just can't use Android.
I agree with this. The 6, 6s. 7 and 8 are all basically the same phone with slightly more horsepower each time. No real design change. Its nice to see a completely new design with the iPhone X. However, I have given it a pass because I refuse to pay the price Apple wants and not sure I like face ID and navigation without a home button. I was determined to keep my 6S but was experiencing a lot of battery problems and got such a good deal from my carrier I got an 8 which will only cost me $420 over two years. That number is based on the additional cost over my previous SIM only plan for 24 months plus the downpayment on the phone.
Way more bells and whistles than the iPhone and the software is just as good in my opinion.
The S8 makes me want to ditch my iPhone but the iPhone is part of a bigger family.
There’s one thing that Android / Google doesn’t have Apple beat. It’s the ecosystem. Apple has designed all of it’s hardware and software to work together across all of it’s products. The iPhone might not be the best smartphone however you won’t find a smartphone with a better family of products such as the Apple Watch and iPad and Mac.
The optimization and continuity between Mac OS and iOS doesn’t come near the cross Apple product capabilities of Windows 10 and Android. Yes declare that the S8 or Note 8 is the better smartphone BUT they don’t have accessory partnering devices and hardware like the iPhone has.
In other words people get asked ‘what is your favorite Apple product?’ No one really asks what’s your favorite Samsung or Android product because everyone answers it’s the phone. Samsung is really good and better than Apple making smartphones but Apple is more consistent about all of their products.
Cheap phones now appear to still cost £800 to £900. The iPhone 8 is labelled as budget and old tech yet is far from cheap. The definition of cheap in many discussions ranges from £50 to £900 bizarrely lol.
The problem the market has is pretty much every smartphone costing £300 upwards all offer the same essential consumer preferred functions. Those not into tech will not care how pretty a phone looks on the outside and will just look at price and whether it has the right size screen for their tastes.
Let’s face it, the iPhone X is a luxury line. Those who want an iPhone for iOS can get the same basic experience from an 8 down to a 6S. You’re not getting value for money with an X, it’s just a product that’s nice to have.
I have to agree. The main reason I have an iPhone is because of the other hardware working almost seamlessly with my iPhone.
If people are honest the X is just another iPhone. Doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing...
I would agree that software is better than hardware but I think Apple still have better software.
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I would agree with the sentiment if not being able to use android. However there is nothing wrong with android. It just isn’t iOS and doesn’t fit my lifestyle and needs. It’s not a bad OS though.
Well I don't know if I can agree with the value part, but yes the X is the luxury item. I appreciate the materials, the addition of Face ID and wireless charging, and the gestures and screen are a nice upgrade.
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That's what I am still not getting though. What bells and whistles? Just an honest conversation here, not being a jerk or anything. I see the flaws in Android and I could never just look past them for a few bells and whistles. That's what I am trying to understand.
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Yea it's just a personal thing for me. Nothing wrong with someone choosing to use Android.
This is why buying is so subjective. None of that is worth the premium to me therefore the price makes the product unappealing. I’m sure it’s a nice device but it’s an iPhone at the end of the day.
Once the phone is unlocked I find it’s the same screen you’d be looking at on any other iPhone. Maybe if they’d have kept to their usual pricing structure I’d be using one and know at least one person also using one. It’s a strange year where I really can’t gage the latest iPhones popularity.
Yes the X is a luxury device but I’d say any phone costing more than £400 is a luxury device. A £400 phone will do most things that people need. Once you go above that price point you are just paying for extra bells and whistles.
That’s very true. I think the market had become accustomed to paying up to £700-£800 for a phone on contract though. There is quite a gulf in price between the 8 and X which is why iPhone users now are split into various camps. The X is super premium in terms of price but I admit I struggle to see what extra bells and whistles it has to justify the extra price. I doubt i’ll ever understand that though despite many explaining FaceID and talking animal heads etc.
To me it’s an iPhone without a home button and that’s the only difference when I view it.
Hey guys... I don't know why we are surprised here. Of course Apple is a luxury brand.
This is the same company who charges a minimum of $1,000 for a laptop computer. One thousand dollars. And it's not even a good laptop. It's basically leftover stock... old design... terrible screen... etc.
So you really need to spend $1,300 for a decent Apple laptop.
Other companies are glad to sell you a laptop at half that (or 1/3 !!!)
Those laptops aren't great... but at least they are CHEAP(ER)
So yeah... Apple does it again. They sell expensive phones that basically do what every other phone can do. But they put it in a pretty package and it runs Apple's OS. Just like their laptops.
This is nothing new.
And before anyone says it... yes... Apple sells cheaper iPhones than the iPhone 8 and X
But it's the "old stock" problem again. At least they drop the price each year afterwards...
This is the same company who charges a minimum of $1,000 for a laptop computer. One thousand dollars. And it's not even a good laptop. It's basically leftover stock... old design... terrible screen... etc.
So you really need to spend $1,300 for a decent Apple laptop.
Other companies are glad to sell you a laptop at half that (or 1/3 !!!)
Those laptops aren't great... but at least they are CHEAP(ER)
So yeah... Apple does it again. They sell expensive phones that basically do what every other phone can do. But they put it in a pretty package and it runs Apple's OS. Just like their laptops.
This is nothing new.
And before anyone says it... yes... Apple sells cheaper iPhones than the iPhone 8 and X
But it's the "old stock" problem again. At least they drop the price each year afterwards...
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"Declining" is such a scary word.
Do you mean more than what they currently do after the big Holiday quarter? If you remember... a year ago the Holiday quarter was 78 million units... but in following quarters it dropped to 50 million, 41 million and 46 million. And that's been the pattern for years.
But are we worried that iPhone sales will keep dropping? To dangerous levels? Or is there some point where it will level-off? Plateau?
There's obviously gonna be a market for iPhones. It's a well-established product/platform. There are entire industries built around the iPhone.
And nothing can grow forever. Everything peaks.
So if Apple can sell 70+ million iPhones in future Holiday quarters and 40+ million in the other quarters... for the rest of our lives... they'll be doing OK. With their margins... they'd still be doing better than all other smartphone OEMs.
And speaking of others... Samsung peaked at 88.5 million units... 4 years ago. They've never been able to beat that number.
Granted... Samsung's product mix is vastly different than Apple's ($230 ASP vs $700 ASP)... it's still interesting to see the other big smartphone OEM reach its peak and then decline/plateau.
But hardware sales are only part of the equation. Look at what Jim Cramer said in the video on the article you posted.
Let's say people keep their iPhones for an average of 3 years instead of 2 years. That would definitely affect Apple's hardware sales numbers.
But they could make money on services: Apple Music, iCloud, apps, movies, etc. Or something we don't even know about yet. As Cramer said "hugely profitable recurring transparent revenue stream"
At least Apple has that option. Apple is in a unique position in that regard.
What does HTC do when people stop buying their phones? They have no other revenue stream.
Excellent anylisis. IMO, Apple will peek between 80-83 million units Q1. It will never be seen again. I’ll be very nervous if it’s below 80 million units.
Excellent anylisis. IMO, Apple will peek between 80-83 million units Q1. It will never be seen again. I’ll be very nervous if it’s below 80 million units.
Nervous? Don't worry, man. Apple will be fine.
Even if they "only" sell 75,000,000 units next year Holiday quarter... that's still $52,500,000,000 in revenue.
$52 billion in revenue from just the iPhone. In three (3) months. And about $20 billion in revenue from everything else Apple sells. Oh and about $16 billion in profit for the company overall. In a single quarter. It's kinda hard to shed a tear for that.
Of course Wall Street will probably lose their mind if Apple sells fewer iPhones in next year's Holiday quarter. But they should know better than anyone: nothing can grow forever.
Maybe Wall Street will start to pin their hopes on Apple's growing services. Or maybe they expect the iPad to make a stunning comeback! Who knows... there's no telling how the stock market will react.
My point is... even Apple in "decline" is still a monster of a company. They sell a ridiculous amount of product... and it's high-margin, extremely profitable product at that. It's crazy. Unheard of, really.
And I do believe iPhone sales will plateau at some point. It's still an excellent product even if consumer behavior might be changing.
But it could be worse. Blackberry only sold 200,000 units last quarter. That number only has only one comma in it...
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I think that's the point, and it's actually Apple's goal. "Luxury" in this case means you can sell at higher margins to a smaller group of people. I don't think they're trying to sell the X to everyone who's ever bought an iPhone. That's why they came out with the 8's and keep the older products in their line. To "hardcore fans" or luxury consumers, it's worth having. I have issue with OP's definition of what a hardcore Apple fan is. Who defines this? I've been buying iPhones and Apple devices longer than many, less than others. It's great that there are more people in the ecosystem now, but does that mean Apple has abandoned those that were there earlier? Smartphone market has matured, less technological low hanging fruit, Apple is bigger and needs to satisfy a larger audience, hence their expanding product line.
I believe I can speak for many "hardcore fans" who have bought the X that I could care less if the person next to me buys one. It's the phone that I want, out of all the choices out there. Sure, there are probably still some that buy it because it's a cool thing to have at that moment, but many of us have been in this iPhone game too long for that to matter. Luxury buyers will get a purse or jacket or shoes because it's rare. I don't think most of us care if the X sells out or if marketshare of the X drop to a small % of the overall iPhone sales.
Some people feel the need to state how smart they are for not "falling for" the X's premium price. These statements boggle my mind. If someone feels another phone is better suited for them, great. You won't hear me saying anything negative about that personal choice. It's not smarter because one can read a spec sheet. I personally value a lot of what the X has to offer. As with all things Apple, if you want to get into a spec argument, Apple will lose, yet they keep winning. Even those who bought non-X phones, you are paying a premium for Apple. So by the same argument, you are not "smart" either and/or superficial. Saving 20% on $1k is not a genius investing decision, it's simply a purchasing choice. You know how your mom brags that she saved $20 on a less expensive sweater? I doubt your reaction is "wow, she's smart!" If it is, we need to redefine that word too. People buy what they want, judgment is not necessary.
And Apple has NEVER been cheap. Selling $20k computers in the 80's/90's. iMac pro is up to $14k now. Who are these people who claim that they know what Apple should be doing at what price points? Exactly zero has changed since Macs were introduced. @The-Real-Deal82, these comments are not directed to you, it's to some of the posts I've skimmed.
Edit to an already long post: @The-Real-Deal82, in this context, I'm defining "luxury" in economic terms of a luxury good. It's not a necessity and requires disposable income to acquire the good. To your point, all iPhones do pretty much the same thing. Smartphones may be more of a necessity now, but anything above the cheapest Android can be argued as a luxury.
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Yeah I’ve always tried to make the point it’s Apples niche line. You’re not going to see them ten a penny in the wild like other iPhone models but it’s obviously fulfilling a section of the market.
I did say earlier it’s a luxury item but I meant that very loosely. It’s not a status symbol type of luxury, just more luxury in terms of costing against other mobile phones. We are in an era now where pretty much everybody has a smartphone and nobody generally gives a toss which one you have, especially popular brands.
Just speaking as an Apple fan boy starting in 2003 with over 9 iPods, 6 Apple Mac and laptops, and I’ve bought every single generation of iPhone except for the 3GS and 4s, (I bought the 5c), I was super disappointed when the X was revealed. I don’t really care about the stupid screen and Face ID. And when I play with it in the store I feel underwhelmed.
I don’t think Apple is hurting though based on their sales quarter.
I gave my 7plus 256gb unlocked (bought cash for over 1k plus tax from Apple because his 6 is dying a slow death) and bought 8plus 64gb. Money isn’t an issue to me and I would buy the X if I thought it was compelling but deducting things that really is not progress. Apple is declining. They’re are doing things just to be different and say it’s progress. You can tell they are scared with how amazon is expanding their Alexa line. They refined the idea of a “Siri” and made it their own the same way Apple used to refine others idea. Amazon echo is infiltrating the home while apple is ****ing around with a HomePod that isn’t gonna sell to the masses; Siri is still inferior to google assistant.
Taking stuff away for the sake of being different is not innovation. Hey guys let’s put a touch bar on a keyboard so you will need to look down on your keyboard when us power users do not want to look down when typing. Hey guys let’s remove the headphone jack because of... courage. Hey guys let’s remove the Touch ID, something that worked really well. Let’s take it away.
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Yes, very true indeed. I think so many times everybody thinks that Apple will fall behind if they're hardware sales are not rising with the iPhone. But what most don't consider, is Apple services is what they generate and how they could easily survive.
They have Reported $265 billion in the bank and $775 market cap as the single biggest corporation in the world thats worth more than the US government and any and every bank in the US. Even if their iPhone failed, Apple could remain in business just by selling accessories and Apple Music memberships by itself.
For example, Apple's services business alone in in quarter in 2017 generated $7 billion in revenue. Just that one segment is worth more than Netflix. Even if Apple discontinued selling hardware, they could continue services through other company products and generate billions.
Your post seems contradictory. You start by stating that Apple wants to be a luxury brand with the iPhone X and charge a premium price to a select group of people. (which I agree with). However this implies that Apple was not like this in the past and you sidetracked that point with a straw-man argument about Apple selling 20k computers in the 1980s.
I've bought every single iPhone, at launch, since the 3G and the iPhone X is the 1st iPhone where I cannot pull the trigger. Prior to the iPhone 6, Apple would release a new iPhone with better specs at the same price as last years model. With the 6, they started upsetting customers to the Plus by withholding features (1080p display, camera, etc) from the smaller phone. That was the start of Apple really focusing on squeezing their existing customers for more money. The iPhone X takes that practice to the next level. I have no problem with paying a premium for an Apple product over Android, as I have done so much in the last, but the premium with the X is too high for me. I think claiming everything above a cheap Android phone is luxury, doesn't properly frame this issue.
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That market cap would drop real fast if investors lost confidence in Apple, FYI.
Apple's services are very much underdeveloped compared to Amazon and Microsoft, as well.
Exactly!
It's actually amazing to think that Apple has been selling computers for 40 years and smartphones for 10 years. And look at all the companies who have come and gone in that time!
Apple had a brief near-bankruptcy moment 20 years ago... but I think they've learned their lesson. They've recovered. That's an understatement!
And yes... services will be huge. I think Apple's services would be on the Fortune 100 list if it was its own company. Or something like that.
The good news is... I don't think Apple has any plans to discontinue hardware.
Because you mentioned the market cap and then went into speculation about what would happen if the iPhone failed...in which case that market cap would drop fast.