Apple is Robbing People with SSD Upgrade Prices...

[Analog Kid]

You think Apple does not have high enough margins to take risks? They are the most valuable company on the planet, worth over a trillion dollars. When was the last time Apple took a risk on anything? They made the smart phone market, they made the tablet market. Can't say I have seen anything revolutionary from Apple since then... unless I am forgetting something.

The point is Apple has the money to take risks. You can't expect Apple (or anyone) to constantly create new markets with revolutionary products. I was quoting a post that suggested he was happy paying more money to Apple to allow them to take more risks with new innovative products. Apple has the money, more then enough money to take risks and not even notice them financially if they fail.

Not sure I would say the M chips are a huge risk, it is a big change, but Apple is not new to having their own CPU. They knew what they were getting into with this shift, they have been here before, except they are in a much stronger place then they were with the G4's and G5's.

So other than the risks they’ve already taken, and the ones they seem to take over and over, they haven’t taken a risk on anything…. I mean, when you put it that way, sure…

 

[pastrychef]

I feel the opposite in this regard. What do you think was so risky? I don't think people are tied to the intel processors and as long as the apps work as they did before where are the big risks? There will be some niche situations where the Apple silicon will have issues, but all the mainstream stuff they were able to test before hand and see how it all ran under rosetta. Apple is no stranger to being the in CPU game.

While Rosetta 2 is amazing, it's still imperfect. Logic users seem to have lots of issues with plug-ins and pretty much every Logic user uses lots of plug-ins. Logic, of course, is used by many audio pros.

There's also the inability to virtualize X86/X64 operating systems.

 

[Analog Kid]

mac pro is going to be an ripoff and pci-e slots need to go can't have people installing there own cards at half the price.
But apple may have an disk 2 choice with the mac pro (same price as the main disk)

I suspect the reason the MP costs what it does is because it’s upgradable. For the MBP they have tiered margins from entry to power user, but for the MP I think they just mark it to the power user margins.

 

[jsnuff1]

Without reading through the entire thread, has anyone said

"If you don't want it, don't buy it"

yet?

Apple knows what they are doing. Im upgrading my fiancé's 13 MBP from 2012 that came with 256GB SSD and 8GB of ram.

This was a DECADE ago. The base config back then was 128...

Point is she wants a Mac that's not changing, so yes this is a FORCED upgrade and apple is robbing people like this. Im not going to tell her to buy a 256GB non upgradable SSD and locked 8GB of ram in a 2022 laptop that costs over 1k.

Its a 400 upgrade for 256GB extra SSD and an extra 8GB of ram...thats just insane.

They know they have people locked in their ecosystem, so they are getting away with 90%+ margins on these upgrades. There is absolutely no reason for it, especially when its an extra 20 bucks for them. Charge 100 make 80% margin and id be happy...

 

[wonderings]

While Rosetta 2 is amazing, it's still imperfect. Logic users seem to have lots of issues with plug-ins and pretty much every Logic user uses lots of plug-ins. Logic, of course, is used by many audio pros.

There's also the inability to virtualize X86/X64 operating systems.

I am sure that will get sorted in time, and in the grand scheme of things I would say audio pros is probably a small market for Apple, though not one to be over looked. Any change will have issues like this. It happened from the PowerPC chips to Intel and is happening again. Eventually this will all be a distant memory.

As for VM's I do agree, it was something I was worried about when I order my M1 Max. While I can't load a proper X86 version of Windows I do have Windows 11 ARM running in Parallels and it runs everything I need it to. I am actually pretty impressed at Windows 11 ARM's ability to virtualize X86 apps. Have a few 20+ year old specific applications that installed and run fine. Of course this specific to me, I can imagine others having trouble with apps that don't run well or might not even install in Windows 11 ARM. I again think this is a smaller niche market (of which I am part of) that is not going to hurt Apple financially at all if no options ever come out for a proper Windows or Linux VM that is not able to run on ARM.

 

[pastrychef]

I suspect the reason the MP costs what it does is because it’s upgradable. For the MBP they have tiered margins from entry to power user, but for the MP I think they just mark it to the power user margins.

I'm confident that at least some of the costs comes from being assembled in America.

 

[pastrychef]

I am sure that will get sorted in time, and in the grand scheme of things I would say audio pros is probably a small market for Apple, though not one to be over looked. Any change will have issues like this. It happened from the PowerPC chips to Intel and is happening again. Eventually this will all be a distant memory.

As for VM's I do agree, it was something I was worried about when I order my M1 Max. While I can't load a proper X86 version of Windows I do have Windows 11 ARM running in Parallels and it runs everything I need it to. I am actually pretty impressed at Windows 11 ARM's ability to virtualize X86 apps. Have a few 20+ year old specific applications that installed and run fine. Of course this specific to me, I can imagine others having trouble with apps that don't run well or might not even install in Windows 11 ARM. I again think this is a smaller niche market (of which I am part of) that is not going to hurt Apple financially at all if no options ever come out for a proper Windows or Linux VM that is not able to run on ARM.

That's part of the problem, I think that quite a few plug-ins are no longer being updated. Hopefully, demand will drive new devs to make alternatives...

I realize that audio pros represent a small portion of the Mac market but I fee their "halo effect" in getting Macs in to production studios is very powerful.

I have never really been much of a Windows user and only had it installed because I could and only for the purpose of a few games. Personally, I don't miss it at all.

 

[wonderings]

That's part of the problem, I think that quite a few plug-ins are no longer being updated. Hopefully, demand will drive new devs to make alternatives...

I realize that audio pros represent a small portion of the Mac market but I fee their "halo effect" in getting Macs in to production studios is very powerful.

I have never really been much of a Windows user and only had it installed because I could and only for the purpose of a few games. Personally, I don't miss it at all.

Any industry on their own is a small portion. If there is money to be made someone will do it. There were lots of headaches in the switch from PPC to Intel, that was a MASSIVE jump for Apple and full of issues that lasted years and years. We have come a long way since then and Rosetta 2 is far better then the original Rosetta. It won't be perfect and some people will have issues but I think the overall the transition is going smooth and obviously over all reviews are fantastic.

 

[pastrychef]

Any industry on their own is a small portion. If there is money to be made someone will do it. There were lots of headaches in the switch from PPC to Intel, that was a MASSIVE jump for Apple and full of issues that lasted years and years. We have come a long way since then and Rosetta 2 is far better then the original Rosetta. It won't be perfect and some people will have issues but I think the overall the transition is going smooth and obviously over all reviews are fantastic.

I remember that transition. I hung on to my Power Mac G4 MDD and PowerBook Pismo for years. But ultimately, the switch to Intel was the right thing to do at the time and led to better Macs.

 

[wonderings]

I remember that transition. I hung on to my Power Mac G4 MDD and PowerBook Pismo for years. But ultimately, the switch to Intel was the right thing to do at the time and led to better Macs.

I can't remember exactly when I switch us over at work, we had the Dual G4's and Dual G5's that were great work horses. The big thing Intel brought was the ability to run Windows which to me gave a lot of flexibility being able to run 2 OS's at the same time.

 

[pastrychef]

I can't remember exactly when I switch us over at work, we had the Dual G4's and Dual G5's that were great work horses. The big thing Intel brought was the ability to run Windows which to me gave a lot of flexibility being able to run 2 OS's at the same time.

I never bought a G5. I liked the El Capitan cases much, much more and I read about how hot the G5s ran. I also wanted nothing to do with water cooling. I still don't.

I did, however, get a G4 upgrade for my PowerBook Pismo.

 

[Ashbash75]

That's part of the problem, I think that quite a few plug-ins are no longer being updated. Hopefully, demand will drive new devs to make alternatives...

I realize that audio pros represent a small portion of the Mac market but I fee their "halo effect" in getting Macs in to production studios is very powerful.

I have never really been much of a Windows user and only had it installed because I could and only for the purpose of a few games. Personally, I don't miss it at all.

Apple moves towards the greater market share, now it is "content creators" i.e. crappy you tubers.

Talking of fake sd cards, Ebay is just as bad. I raised a complaint of a fake SD card and tried to explain what fraud was but in order for me to get a refund, I had to return the card to the con artist!, go figure!

 

[jerryk]

it is using a little swap memory...

does this mean I need 16GB?


View attachment 2021407

My M1 mini looked like that. The yellow in memory pressure is alarming.

That is why I replaced it with Studio Max. 8GB is just too small for many use cases. 16 GB might be OK, but 32GB is better!!

 

[collin_]

How about $581 to go from 256 to 1TB on a Lenovo?
View attachment 2020968

Yikes! Does the device have user-upgradeable storage?

 

[doboy]

Apple knows what they are doing. Im upgrading my fiancé's 13 MBP from 2012 that came with 256GB SSD and 8GB of ram.

This was a DECADE ago. The base config back then was 128...

Point is she wants a Mac that's not changing, so yes this is a FORCED upgrade and apple is robbing people like this. Im not going to tell her to buy a 256GB non upgradable SSD and locked 8GB of ram in a 2022 laptop that costs over 1k.

Its a 400 upgrade for 256GB extra SSD and an extra 8GB of ram...thats just insane.

They know they have people locked in their ecosystem, so they are getting away with 90%+ margins on these upgrades. There is absolutely no reason for it, especially when its an extra 20 bucks for them. Charge 100 make 80% margin and id be happy...

Vote with your wallet and don't buy. Tell your fiancé to move onto a Win 11 notebook.

 

[pastrychef]

Vote with your wallet and don't buy. Tell your fiancé to move onto a Win 11 notebook.

That may lead to her becoming an EX-fiancé. Lol

 

[doboy]

That may lead to her becoming an EX-fiancé. Lol

It's the risk he'll need to take
Fiancé vs Apple (thief), hmm. Tough choice

 

[aurora72]

Here is the thing, yes the prices are outrageous, but people have moved beyond localized storage.

For instance, there is no longer the need for large main drives or secondary drives for TV/movies as you can easily stream those or download the necessary ones.

Need to store documents for quick access? Google Drive, MS OneDrive, DropBox and several other are available, some even with large storage capacities on the cheap; more so if your company has cloud storage.

Media producers? NAS drives are standard for them or large external drives.

Photos and home videos? You can easily hold 10 years of those within 200GB for the average person. I for one have pictures and videos all the way back to 2006 and still use under 100GB to store those.

So in the end, large main drives have lost focus.

So Apple is trying to force people to Cloud Storage by keeping the SSD prices high? That could mean forcing people to use bandwidth for everything and give up their privacy, their control on their files... To me, that could mean giving up my personality.

 

[jerryk]

That may lead to her becoming an EX-fiancé. Lol

You need to make a decision, her or an upgradable laptop. Choose wisely.

 

[alok87]

My M1 mini looked like that. The yellow in memory pressure is alarming.

That is why I replaced it with Studio Max. 8GB is just too small for many use cases. 16 GB might be OK, but 32GB is better!!

This is on an M1 Pro chip!!

I still don’t know how so many people are getting away with a messily 8 GB of Ram. There is a pretty big noticeable difference using my Mom’s M1 Air (8/256) and my M1 Air (16/1 TB)

photos load faster on mine, my whatsapp is much smoother…

I really think 16GB is necessary if you keep it docked because you are using much more screen space and can easily use split screen with 4 apps filling up and steam a 4k video on one, then have WhatsApp on another, then mail, then sidecar can also be used as another screen for emails, etc.

It’s when I am on the couch/bed (IPAD Mode) that my ram usage drops to normal amounts because I am only using one display and usually more focused on just a video or reading something

 

[UBS28]

I am sure that will get sorted in time, and in the grand scheme of things I would say audio pros is probably a small market for Apple, though not one to be over looked. Any change will have issues like this. It happened from the PowerPC chips to Intel and is happening again. Eventually this will all be a distant memory.

As for VM's I do agree, it was something I was worried about when I order my M1 Max. While I can't load a proper X86 version of Windows I do have Windows 11 ARM running in Parallels and it runs everything I need it to. I am actually pretty impressed at Windows 11 ARM's ability to virtualize X86 apps. Have a few 20+ year old specific applications that installed and run fine. Of course this specific to me, I can imagine others having trouble with apps that don't run well or might not even install in Windows 11 ARM. I again think this is a smaller niche market (of which I am part of) that is not going to hurt Apple financially at all if no options ever come out for a proper Windows or Linux VM that is not able to run on ARM.

It will not get sorted in time. I already complained to the developer of a particular plugin and they are basically blaming Apple why their plugin runs so crap even on a 16” M1 Max MacBook Pro.

They are working on a new version so I pray that that one is better optimized for the M1 Max. I tend to avoid using this plugin for that reason.

I honestly think Windows is much better for music production at the moment as you have access to more plugins (some developers have already said they will never release a Mac version of their plugin).

And heck, even my Access Virus Ti synthesizer finally works then too when switching to Windows, since I doubt it will ever gets fixed for the M1 computers.

 

[ikramerica]

256GB is enough for a LOT of people. And with the fast paging on the M-series, 8GB also works for a lot of people. Thus the air base config.

The 14/16 pro would be a crime to come with 8GB. They are built for people who need more. But at 16GB I am doing everything I need with it. 32GB would have been overkill. Once in a blue moon I restart to end some runaway memory hogs. Otherwise no issues.

 

[NT1440]

That lenovo laptop you showed has an upgradable NVME drive.

Which means nothing to business market at scale.

Yikes! Does the device have user-upgradeable storage?

That one does, T15 gen 2. I think all but the most niche of Lenovo’s line has removable SSD’s. Some of the more compact units have soldered RAM.

A nice touch from the E-series (economy business line): Gen 3 devices have 8 or 16 GB memory soldered on AND an empty RAM slot. This is nice because that series in gen 1 & 2 had a single RAM slot.

 

[alok87]

Apple moves towards the greater market share, now it is "content creators" i.e. crappy you tubers.

Talking of fake sd cards, Ebay is just as bad. I raised a complaint of a fake SD card and tried to explain what fraud was but in order for me to get a refund, I had to return the card to the con artist!, go figure!

eBay is full of scumbags.. I bought Nikes for $180.. took to finish line and it took them a solid hour to find out they were a high quality fake

I bought Raybans for $80 and the case and booklet were perfect but took to sunglass hut and barcode wouldn’t scan

I bought a Surface laptop that was described as open box and my god.. that thing looked like it was chewed on by a dog.. the metal in one corner that had teeth indentions

I bought AirPods Pro that was listed as open box and it was scratched to hell with horse 🐴 emoji on it.. seller used pics from apple website and then had the nerve to tell me I’m a difficult customer and the engraving cost extra and I was lucky he didn’t charge more for it

A $600 Gucci watch that looked like it was purchased for $20 from Aliexpres without working chronograph and hollow bracelet.. seller actually asked me to send back so he could resell 🙄

I have to even gotten a notification from eBay that they think I’m abusing the item doesn’t match description policy and raising an excessive amount of disputes

 

[editfmah]

Yes, this is what happens when you have very competitive hardware and software. Capitalism in action.

Reminds me of people who thought Apple would lower its prices with M1, because Apple would pass on the savings. Right. 😄

If I was being pedantic, and I'm not really making excuses. But the i3 Air was $999, but the M1 is 3-4 times more powerful for the same $999, and the Intel upgrade path was not going to deliver that kind of bump. So, it's kind of better value but not a bargain!