Other Apple is slowing down older iPhones based on battery wear level [MERGED]

[BigMcGuire]

You have a point @eyoungren. They didn't get to be one of the first ever companies to be valued at $1 trillion by NOT doing what you mentioned . http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/apple-first-trillion-dollar/

I'd still argue that vs a midline Windows PC and a midline Android - Apple devices last considerably longer. But it doesn't invalidate your point at all - they could be, with very little effort on their side, be supporting these devices a lot longer.

 

[Applejuiced]

My battery was at 80%+ yet the system throttled my CPU clock 40%+ I’d agree with you if only time between charges was compromised, but the system slowdown is crazy.

It's part of planned obsolescence by Apple.
This is not only about Apple slowing the phone down past an 80% battery capacity.
They Put out newer iOS updates and slow down the processor performance to a crawl to force customers to upgrade their phones more often.
Hope some investigation comes out cause they been doing it for years and not only on the iPhone 6 and 6S.

 

[eyoungren]

It's part of planned obsolescence by Apple.
This is not only about Apple slowing the phone down past an 80% battery capacity.
They Put out newer iOS and slow down the processor performance to a crawl to force customers to upgrade their phonesmore often.
Hope some investigation comes out cause they been doing it for years and not only on the iPhone 6 and 6S.

I think it's just starting to become more overt now. Or people are getting better at discovering what they are doing.

 

[JackieInCo]

My 6S+ was on 10.3.1 the past several months and the battery was failing. It would sometimes drop from 70% to 17% in 6 hours with no use at all and it would drain my watches battery with it. The phone never slowed down whatsoever as I still used it as my daily up until two weeks ago when I got a 7+.

I replaced the battery in the 6S+ two weeks ago and it didn't magically speed up at all. My 6S+ was my most favorite iPhone to date even with the battery starting to fail over the past 6 months.

 

[147798]

I think this is the nexus point/conflict of multiple Apple strategic marketing claims:

1. Apple wants to be able to say their batteries last 2-3 years (to "80%")
2. Apple wants to be able to say that most users have migrated to their latest iOS, and they do this through constant badgering for iOS upgrades
3. Apple wants to be able to say the experience of iOS is the best (smooth, clean efficient, etc.)

The problem here -- and I can't imagine they anticipated/thought this through -- is that the iP6/6+ architecture and battery was fine for supporting the original battery as it degraded to 80%, on the iOS they were launched with, with a good experience.

For whatever reason, the later versions of iOS do not do so well with the 6/6s battery as they degrade. Apple down clocked the CPU to keep the 80% claim intact. If the battery is fresh, it's likely a good (or reasonably good) experience. But when the battery weakens, they cannot maintain #3, and because of #2, you are forced into a bad experience on an older battery.

Apple would have been better off announcing lack of support for the 6 and 6s in iOS11. It would have been much cleaner, though they might not have realized all this at the time.

How Apple responds will be interesting. Do they suggest the 6/6s shouldn't upgrade to 11? Do they give coupons for battery replacement (either discount or warranty coverage), do they offer a trade in rate for 6/6s for upgrades? Or maybe they just release an unmarked service bulletin for future support calls.

 

[BigMcGuire]

My 6S+ was on 10.3.1 the past several months and the battery was failing. It would sometimes drop from 70% to 17% in 6 hours with no use at all and it would drain my watches battery with it. The phone never slowed down whatsoever as I still used it as my daily up until two weeks ago when I got a 7+.

I replaced the battery in the 6S+ two weeks ago and it didn't magically speed up at all. My 6S+ was my most favorite iPhone to date even with the battery starting to fail over the past 6 months.

My 6s+ was the most perfect phone I've ever had as well. Had it for 1.7 years and it never had any problems - battery was near perfect too. Thanks to iOS 11, my 6s+ was definitely the fastest iPhone I've had. My 8+ doesn't even beat it (thanks to iOS 11). lol.

 

[Applejuiced]

I think it's just starting to become more overt now. Or people are getting better at discovering what they are doing.

Yes basically what we're all been noticing and thinking they're doing for years now.
They put out a new iOS version and all of a sudden your iPhone that was running great, smooth and fast before now feels like a total turtle and you wanna throw it on the wall.
And what do we do? Go out and buy the new iPhone cause the old one with the new forced iOS update now runs like crap.

 

[Ash Pole]

It also allows them to claim a fictitious battery life. My battery was on 480 cycles and 82% yet the system was slowed down. I would argue the battery was already failed for purpose, yet Apple is saying it wasn’t

Yep...my 3 year iPhone 6 had over a 1000 cycles on it but Apple claimed it was fine. That somewhat contradicts what they state on their website, quote "Your battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 500 complete charge cycles." https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/
Much more profitable selling a iPhone 8 than a replacement battery.

 

[eyoungren]

Yes basically what we're all been noticing and thinking they're doing for years now.
They put out a new iOS version and all of a sudden your iPhone that was running great, smooth and fast before now feels like a total turtle and you wanna throw it on the wall.
And what do we do? Go out and buy the new iPhone cause the old one with the new forced iOS update now runs like crap.

I learned this lesson a long time ago.

I used to be a chronic, bleeding edge updater. Until one day I did it on a production day when the newspaper had to be out and the Mac refused to work.

That was the last time I ever reflexively upgraded any device or computer and except for forced upgrades due to cirumstance I've stuck with that.

Every time this gets reinforced as I see the myriad problems people have, especially with an iDevice and early versions of a new iOS upgrade.

Lately seeing what happens from the 5 on up it has also convinced me that being an early adopter is equivalent to being a beta tester.

It's very unfortunate, especially when you may be in a situation where you have to upgrade/update.

 

[Septembersrain]

I think it's just starting to become more overt now. Or people are getting better at discovering what they are doing.

The unwavering loyalty gets questioned more as time goes by. Apple will still have people who are loyal but as their products increase in price and issues get discussed more often, it becomes easier for the masses to notice. Word of mouth is powerful and the more of us who actively talk about these things, the more others will too.

Like me venting about the Qualcomm modem being crippled, I talk about this everywhere. In real life too. I get mixed reactions but I guarantee they'll at least think about it. Then probably talk about it. Some might just shrug it off but others will go home and research.

They built their foundation on reputation, each time another loyal buyer starts questioning, they can just as easily start to crumble it.

I'm not screaming that "Apple is doomed!" But no company is too big to protect them from a fall. I hope Apple decides to do right here...

And with those damn modems.

 

[JackieInCo]

My 6s+ was the most perfect phone I've ever had as well. Had it for 1.7 years and it never had any problems - battery was near perfect too. Thanks to iOS 11, my 6s+ was definitely the fastest iPhone I've had. My 8+ doesn't even beat it (thanks to iOS 11). lol.

I still use my 6S+ too even though i have the 7+ now. Replacing the battery was I think, a good decision. I could have easily have used it another year now but I wanted to upgrade to a better phone that would last a few years.

I still have a 6S that is on 10.1.1 or something like and it's jailbroken but I don't use it because of the shortened battery life being that it has a smaller battery then the + models. It's battery has stayed in top shape and didn't fail like my 6S+ battery did. Both of these phones are two years old this month.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm not screaming that "Apple is doomed!" But no company is too big to protect them from a fall.

Sears.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Just pulled out my 2 year old 6s+ with 511 charge cycles, and 80% capacity

Nice. That’s basically identical to my 6S and I’m at 93% battery health.

 

[mcdj]

Apple’s market cap is larger than many countries’ GDP. So it stands to reason that Apple runs their company not unlike a country. And make no mistake; if Apple is a country, it’s no democracy. It’s closer to a fascist dictatorship than anything.

Sure, they listen to us, the citizens, occasionally, slowly implementing the changes we request and patching the problems we clamor over. But they don’t do it for altruistic reasons. They do it to keep market share and to save money.

And if it is true that they throttle their CPUs when batteries get tired, they do it to keep the support call times down and the Genius Bar traffic to a minimum. They do it to pacify the masses.

Do they want to sell you a new phone every couple of years? Absolutely. But they know that many people can’t afford, or simply won’t buy a new phone every year or so just because the battery is getting tired. So rather than flood their help lines and Genius Bars with the needy masses crying about batteries dying at noon, they’ve engineered a solution that will get us non-upgrading plebes through the day; CPU throttle.

The good news is, unlike with an actual fascist dictatorship, with Apple you can vote, with your dollar. Take your money somewhere else. Or get a 3rd party battery. Or upgrade your phone. You have choices.

Apple has done the research and engineering here. They know the math. They’ve done the focus groups and the surveys. They know that in order to keep the majority of their customer base from rioting at the Genius Bar, the phone has to be made useable for as long as possible during the span of the day. The vast majority of soccer moms/dads and teenagers who make up Apple’s core customer base don’t read Reddit, don’t run benchmark tests, and don’t care if their 3 year old phone is a little sluggish, as long as it can post that one last Instagram photo of their omg you guys pizza, or tap that one last Facebook like, or send that one last text, before they can get to a charger.

Could they have told us about this? Sure. But if you were Apple...in today’s climate of demanding entitled uniformed consumers who yell for something they don’t understand beyond knowing they don’t have it and they must have everything or the world will end...would you?

 

[JM]

I sill don't get why this is being debated. Yes, Apple optimizes iOS for older devices, hence less features for devices that cannot support advanced animations, gestures, etc.

In the end the result is the same: buy an iPhone or don't. Other device manufacturers won't bother to optimize anything, not even for new devices. (I believe I posted a while ago about having to literally throw an Andoid tablet away because there was no way to update/restore).

Technology is volatile. You can't just buy a device and expect it to last forever.

It's an interesting debate that will never have a definitive answer. There's no reason why it can't be discussed ad nauseum by people who have opposing views. There is new evidence that supports Apple's interest in selling new phones by slowing down old ones.

And Apple does not optimize for older devices: iPhone 4 with iOS 7. Discuss.
[doublepost=1512967728][/doublepost]

This thread should be merged with the other one. NO, it has nothing to do with planned obsolescence. If you believe that, get ready for the zombies.

Thank you for your minimal contribution to the conversation

 

[Applejuiced]

Apple’s market cap is larger than many countries’ GDP. So it stands to reason that Apple runs their company not unlike a country. And make no mistake; if Apple is a country, it’s no democracy. It’s closer to a fascist dictatorship than anything.

Sure, they listen to us, the citizens, occasionally, slowly implementing the changes we request and patching the problems we clamor over. But they don’t do it for altruistic reasons. They do it to keep market share and to save money.

And if it is true that they throttle their CPUs when batteries get tired, they do it to keep the support call times down and the Genius Bar traffic to a minimum. They do it to pacify the masses.

Do you they want to sell you a new phone every couple of years? Absolutely. But they know that many people can’t afford, or simply won’t buy a new phone every year or so just because the battery is getting tired. So rather than flood their help lines and Genius Bars with the needy masses crying about batteries dying at noon, they’ve engineered a solution that will get us non-upgrading plebes through the day; CPU throttle.

The good news is, unlike with an actual fascist dictatorship, with Apple you can vote, with your dollar. Take your money somewhere else. Or get a 3rd party battery. Or upgrade your phone. You have choices.

Apple has done the research and engineering here. They know the math. They’ve done the focus groups and the surveys. They know that in order to keep the majority of their customer base from rioting at the Genius Bar, the phone has to be made useable for as long as possible during the span of the day. The vast majority of soccer moms/dads and teenagers who make up Apple’s core customer base don’t read Reddit, don’t run benchmark tests, and don’t care if their 3 year old phone is a little sluggish, as long as it can post that one last Instagram photo of their omg you guys pizza, or tap that one last Facebook like, or send that one last text, before they can get to a charger.

Could they have told us about this? Sure. But if you were Apple...in today’s climate of demanding entitled uniformed consumers who yell for something they don’t understand beyond knowing they don’t have it and they must have everything or the world will end...would you?

That's bs. So you're defending this shady practice and Apple is just doing it cause people don't care if their device becomes sluggish? What?
It's the customers fault their batteries are defective and must suffer with a less than 50% processor slowdown?
By the time the 2 years are up when most batteries usually degrade you can't call their helpline or go to a Genius Bar cause you're out of warranty by a full year.
Since that's what they're doing to get people to upgrade why not just tell us that they are slowing our phones on purpose?
And give the customers the option of paying for a new battery instead of having to buy a whole new phone?
I think you know why they do that. It's pure greed.

 

[woodynorman]

I just hate how Apple Stores refuses to do anything with your battery unless it is under 80% capacity. If they're slowing down phones, they should let people pay frigging $80 to replace their battery when they want.

Are you talking about a warranty repair? Because I cant imagine Apple not wanting to take your money for a battery replacement.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Are you talking about a warranty repair? Because I cant imagine Apple not wanting to take your money for a battery replacement.

Most Apple Stores will flat out refuse $80 even if you're waving it in their face, if you want to replace a battery that is over 80% of design capacity left. Amazing, isn't it? I sure think so.

 

[Applejuiced]

Are you talking about a warranty repair? Because I cant imagine Apple not wanting to take your money for a battery replacement.

If the battery is not under their perimeters for replacement even if you pay out of warranty they will not replace it.

 

[mcdj]

It's the customers fault their batteries are defective and must suffer with a less than 50% processor slowdown?

Who said that? Not me.

And do you think for one second that the average user whose battery is dying at noon, regardless of whether they’re in or out of warranty, doesn’t pick up the phone and call Apple or make a Genius Bar appt?

Again, Apple has done the math here. They know that by throttling the CPU, a certain percentage of their customers are going to upgrade, but the majority of their customers are going to be less concerned with Safari feeling snappy than they are with their ability to just use the phone on their commute home for another year. CPU throttling gets them through the day on a dying battery. They are doing this for those people, not us.

 

[Applejuiced]

Who said that? Not me.

And do you think for one second that the average user whose battery is dying at noon, regardless of whether they’re in or out of warranty, doesn’t pick up the phone and call Apple or make a Genius Bar appt?

Again, Apple has done the math here. They know that by throttling the CPU, a certain percentage of their customers are going to upgrade, but the majority of their customers are going to be less concerned with Safari feeling snappy than they are with their ability to just use the phone on their commute home for another year. CPU throttling gets them through the day on a dying battery. They are doing this for those people, not us.

Again, if their battery dies by noon then they got a defective phone and they should call Apple.
If that happens after the 1 year warranty is over they do not have any coverage.
Oh so Apple is doing it for us so we don't spend $30-50 for a battery when it degrades?
I'm so thankful for Apple turning my phone to a turtle without telling me. They're doing it to protect me
Not in order to force people to buy new iPhones more often?
Tell me another one.

 

[Paddle1]

It's an interesting debate that will never have a definitive answer. There's no reason why it can't be discussed ad nauseum by people who have opposing views. There is new evidence that supports Apple's interest in selling new phones by slowing down old ones.

And Apple does not optimize for older devices: iPhone 4 with iOS 7. Discuss.
[doublepost=1512967728][/doublepost]
Thank you for your minimal contribution to the conversation

The iPhone 4 with iOS 7 is a bad example. They specifically optimized 7.1 for the iPhone 4. The 4 can actually be more responsive than the 4s on iOS 9.

 

[Radon87000]

I came across that article this morning. Not seeing how this provides evidence of planned obsolescence. Sounds more like the 6s had quite a few batteries and/or power management controllers which were defective and instead of owning up to it and replacing said components, Apple throttled performance of the phone. This in my opinion is worse than planned obsolescence but certainly not evidence of it.

How is not planned obsolescence? The more the battery wears, the slower the phone and you pay money to get it fixed or tolerate a slow phone. Apple exercised this option instead of a recall of the 6s and 6. This is eerily similar to Touch Disease on 6 where they skimped on a display component due to which many 6 were affected by touchscreen issues and Apple asked customers to pay.

 

[brianjsw01]

Edit: wow the reddit thread explains this much better than I do here... I'm still shaking my head that they did this without telling the user. Smh.....

Assuming the allegations are true...

I remember how people with defective batteries on the iPhone 6S were so excited when an iOS update "fixed" their phones from shutting off with 25% charge still left on them.

At the time I couldn't understand it but now it makes perfect sense. Remember batteries can fail in two different ways. The common way is they lose capacity. But the other way they fail is when the cells can't push electrical current hard enough (low voltage) to keep things on. That's usually the cause of a phone that turns off while still showing a percentage left (barring calibration issues).

I guess by throttling the CPU Apple was able to stop asking those batteries to push so hard and so they were able to make many defective batteries appear to be OK to the unsuspecting user. If this is truly what happened it strikes me as not owning up properly to a problem I'm afraid.

 

[macfacts]

Tldr version: Apple doesn't want to recall more batteries so they throttle the cpu via an update.