I’ve never seen “app laucher” stats comparing initial release to initial release or final to final. always final to initial. We all know Apple gets it perfect at the end.
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Other Apple is slowing down older iPhones based on battery wear level [MERGED]
- Thread starter IsaacM
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Your posts are utter rubbish and nothing else. I have faced slowdowns on my old 7 plus and it's not imaginary unlike what you've been writing here. The battery wear was not even close to 20%. Mind you I do pass all your a) b) and c) tests so don't post it again.
I know your next post would be "yours would be a case which happens only in 5% of the total user base so its acceptable". Sorry, in that case everyone I know would falls into the 5% category or apple hands out lemons to people I know or even better apple knows that I am the one who dismisses BJ's posts as rubbish?
For the part highlighted, hilarious! Talking to you is like talking to my toy phone of the yore, no matter which button I press I get the same old recorded replies.
I do believe you experience slowdowns, but they are almost certainly unrelated to throttling, if your battery is as healthy as you say. Perhaps you need to do a clean iOS install?
Also, even though they improved it, iOS 11 was full of bugs and slowdowns and still manages to lag from time to time, even on latest devices. While it's annoying, it has nothing to do with throttling.
But that is not your original alibi. You are saying the sole reason the iPhone 8 (or X) is not going to be throttled is due to superior battery and CPU technology which the 7 does not have. Yet the 7 was once on the Do Not Throttle list.
Actually none of what you are saying really is plausible; you are just posting whatever you think will "fly" as an excuse. You said earlier that the reason Apple is throttling phones is due to battery wear and climate. Now it is battery type and CPU as well as battery wear and climate.
Apple has no reason to throttle every phone except the latest gen if the issue is battery wear and climate as that affects every phone they offer. They knew well and good what they were doing. You know well and good what they were doing.
If your current gen iPhone started running slower you would be unhappy.
If your older gen iPhone started running slower you would get a new iPhone.
Let us not pretend after 100 pages that it is anything else but this.
I would clarify my stance only...
If my older gen iphone became unusable I would get a new phone or a new iphone has a new feature I really want and couldn't get on my current model.
My ipad 2 does not run as fast as my iphone 6s, yet it's still very viable for what I need it to do and going on 7 years old, I'll probably get a new one at the end of the year.
Just had the battery replaced on my iPhone 6s Plus (two years old). Instant 40% increase in performance per Geekbench, which is strikingly noticeable in day-to-day use (I own an iPad Pro 10.5, so I know what "fast" should feel like).
Undisclosed throttling is total ******** - my phone was EXTREMELY slow and if this throttling issue hadn't been discovered I probably would've bought a new phone. New battery and it's fast and perfectly usable again.
Undisclosed throttling is total ******** - my phone was EXTREMELY slow and if this throttling issue hadn't been discovered I probably would've bought a new phone. New battery and it's fast and perfectly usable again.
I agree that I did not do a clean install and even multiple reset to make it work like it used to, I would set up my phone using my iCloud backup and that did not help. My point is, had there been an issue with my iCloud backup it would have created an issue on my X as well, right? That is not the case.
Even if apple is doing the right thing which is I know it isn't, the throttling shouldn't effect the phones till at least 2 software updates/2 years. A good battery should/must hold at least 80% charge after 2 years and there shouldn't be any throttling till the 80% threshold is reached, which again like many of the members would claim here is not the case as of now and has been proven that even a slightly degraded battery leads to throttling.
Like someone would say that only a minority(read people who mishandle as per BJ) of the users are facing this issue with a throttling and if that would have been true then why did apple implement the so called feature for all the users and did not look into it case by case? Mind you I am not one of those users who mishandle their device and it did affect me.
Again this isn't a Phony scandal like someone would try to make others believe. This is legit and is impacting a lot of users like me and that is what has angered me.
No discount would make it good for me. I just want apple to revert the decision to implement the so called feature or give users an option. If it doesn't it would mean all that has been said about the planned obsolescence is true and apple has done it either to save its a** from replacing all the defective batteries/to promote sales/cover up that they use substandard batteries etc
Enough with the personal attacks, they're inappropriate and not a way to speak to someone who simply has a different experience than you do.
Next, you misunderstand my commentary on the standard 5% defect rate for consumer electronics. I'm not saying it's acceptable that the 11 million people with legitimately defective iPhone's are having trouble. Quite the opposite. What I am saying is that they need to get to an Apple store and have their phones checked out, repaired or replaced. Sitting around talking about problems very few others are experiencing is a big clue that it's not some premeditated corporate conspiracy but rather a defect in materials or manufacturing.
It's hard when we all talk in generalities without definition. So let's do this:
Post up a video of your iPhone 7 launching an app, say, iMessage. And then I'll set up my iPhone 6 and my iPhone X and my daughter's iPhone 6S all in a row and tap the iMessage icon simultaneously. I'll record the whole thing. Let me see how much of a "slowdown" you're really suffering with. I will be the first to apologize if the delay is something really significant, like more than 2 seconds.
Apologies for being personal with my attacks but that was a way of making you talk back since a lot of logical comments I've posted before, you simply ignored them and kept replying what you do to other peoples comments. I tend to get carried away while debating.
Also, I've let my 7 plus go since then as I wasn't able to live with a phone that ran like a charm on iOS 10 and 11 made it bad for me. It was certainly not a hardware defect which would crop up right after I went from 10 to 11 so no point trying to take it to an apple store. Also, I did all the trouble shooting I could before letting it go and I did wait for the subsequent stable 11 updates thinking the initial updates were buggy.
Nothing else makes sense other than iOS 11 throttling my phone which was used with a lot of care and was as good as new. I was forced to get the X in a way. I love my X but I also think I would have been perfectly happy with my 7 plus had it been performing like it used to. I hope you get my point.
Peace!!
Time out. You are misreading me. I never said the 8 or X would never be throttled. I'm saying that the reason they are not being throttled now is because they are brand new and have a processor/iOS/battery that are all optimized to work together. Two years from now I fully expect the 8 and X to be power managed in the same way the 6's and 7's are now because they will be older, have spent batteries, and be running an iOS optimized for the new iPhone 12 or whatever it's called.
Sorry, I can't keep up with all the variables every time I post. I believe that the reason for the power management protocol (what you call a 'throttle') occurs as a combination of:
Processor Type, Battery Age, iOS Version, and Operating Temperature primarily. Then atop this you can add in Quality Of Apps Installed, Number Of Apps Running In Background, Number Of Snap/Insta Notifications, Number Of Times Backlight Lights, Music Playing In The Background, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi On All Day, etc. etc.
No, sorry, there is no conspiracy. Just some people who use their iPhone's differently. My iPhone 6 worked like a champ, even on iOS 11 it was still snappy and robust. But I'm an executive who works 9 to 6 every day and only checks emails and makes a few phone calls each day. I have Background App Refresh turned off. I don't get alerts every time Facebook or Instagram sees me tagged or mentioned. I have an iPad so I never stream video on my iPhone, ever. I never use wi-fi as my ATT unlimited data is simply faster. Perhaps you are the exact opposite. So even though we have the same hardware and iOS and batteries at the same % of life, your usage patterns and running apps are giving you a noticible throttle where mine isn't. I don't know.
This is what I think, this is what my situation was a month ago before I upgraded my family to iPhone X's:
My 17 year old son is a varsity ice hockey player. He has an iPhone 6. I am his father and am a business executive. I have an iPhone 6. Both bought on the same day, both delivered from Apple simultaneously shortly after launch in September 2014. Both running iOS 11 as was the most recent version(s) of the time.
As described above, I manage from behind a desk all day long, I don't use my iPhone that strenuously.
My son has his phone in a freezing hockey arena 4 hours a day and then on a sweaty steamy bus home 1 hour a day. While he starts the day at 100% battery, by early afternoon after hundreds of Snap and Insta notifications he's down to 40% battery. After the hockey experience by dinner time he's down to 9% battery and spends the rest of the night streaming videos and Facetiming and charging up to 20% and running down to 2% over and over again until it's 1AM and he overnight charges up the phone for the next day.
My iPhone 6 is in fantastic shape and speedy. His iPhone 6 is in rough shape and very slow. Usage matters. Behavior matters. Temperature matters. These are my opinions not only as someone who respects Apple but as a realworld A/B tester with a realworld 17 year old power using son. My opinion as the financial manager in the family, I would fully expect my son's iPhone to be slow and sluggish at that 3+ year age and considering the somewhat abusive conditions he puts it through. I have no expectation that Apple owes me anything because his iPhone is performing poorly. That's on him, not Apple.
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Real world personal experience information. No mention of personal income. No disparaging comments about jailbreakers or "Craiglist buyers".
I could almost get on board with this boltjames.
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No worries, a heated debate is fun but no need for name calling, I really don't mean to be bombastic, apologies as well if you felt I was.
LOL, it would be a banner day if you and I got along too. Let's try.
You don't mean to be bombastic? Suggest you check the definition in that case...
OK, then that's a flaw in the data.
It's still more useful than "it doesn't feel any slower to me".
OK, then that's a flaw in the data.
It's still more useful than "it doesn't feel any slower to me".
I certainly know the definition but you completely miss the point of my contributions. Unlike many of you who understand technical data fed to you by a third-party geek app or whatever classes you are taking at university, my perspective is that of the real world, the average guy, your executives, your mum's and dad's, the people who are too busy with work and family to sit around and get too deep under the hood on this issue.
To us, Mr. & Mrs. Average Consumer, we don't have an issue with Apple's power management protocol because it doesn't affect us, we don't have terribly overused batteries, we aren't non-stop power users, we don't Snap all day, we don't Stream all night, we simply don't sense a speed drop because a half a second here or there doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. We also don't frequent mall kiosks for screen repairs or battery replacements. We know that an iPhone will get tired after 2 years, it's common sense, and we are prepared (and excited, actually) to get the newest model.
Not saying there is a flaw, saying comparing a final IOS release to an initial release for "app launching" at least to me, is not very useful. (Actually I don't thing time to launch apps, especially where this is a very small difference is useful anyway.)
Wait.
So you finally paid attention to the fact that all phone batteries weaken after 2+ years, you got a new battery, and now your phone is working well again.
Why is Apple to blame because you never noticed the dozens of battery replacement kiosks in malls near your home?
Why is Apple to blame because you didn't read the Terms & Conditions of iOS 11 before installing it or read the Manufacturers Warranty upon purchase 2+ years ago?
You're apparently the last to know that you needed a new battery and that ignorance is not only Apple's responsibility but additionally they are conspirators in an ugly plot to trick you into buying a new iPhone?
I bought a lamp two years ago. The bulb blew out. You don't see me blaming Home Depot. I know that bulbs burn out over time.
Tell me, what is the average net worth of a US family unit? Is it $15m? No? Then I’m afraid you don’t represent Mr Average.
Right, but it’s still a more useful basis for debate than “well it seems fine to me”.
That’s not the same.
The equivalent would be that the bulb (which wasn’t user replaceable) got dimmer and dimmer but never blew, then you took the lamp back to Home Depot and they said it was fine, and that replacing the bulb wouldn’t help. They wouldn’t even let you pay them to do it just in case.
Actually, not really useful. A lot of these videos seem to have a similar pattern. Some things are the blink of the eye faster, some things are a blink of an eye slower. In actual usage, are most customers going to really tell the difference? Since there is no way to actually and factually measure these app launch times, unless there is a dramatic difference, saying the performance is fine and it doesn't feel slower (or faster for that matter) is a useful opinion.
It's $301,000 per family or $44,900 per working adult in the USA. And I represent Mr. Average because of my rudimentary understanding of processor technology and its interaction with applications and power supplies, not because of my wealth.
I'd recommend you and others stop staring at geekbench all day looking for metrics that make you miserable. Launch iMessage, wait the whopping extra half-a-second that the power management protocol has added to save you from an unexpected shutdown, and make a plan to get some dinner with your friends. If you add it up, you've wasted more of your time geekbenching, posting, and fretting over this non-issue than all the delays this phony slowdown supposedly has affected you. Get your new battery, enjoy your old iPhone for another year, and get back to living your life instead of chasing windmills for another week.
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Wow, is this wrong.
Just because you think you have some "proof" that your phone is being slowed in the form of a third-party geekbench app doesn't mean its actually doing so in the real world. I'd argue that the common man saying "it seems fine to me" is more accurate than people obsessing over app scores saying "I'm throttled!" because there is no outrage in the real world. The only outrage is in this discussion forum. There are no lines at Apple stores, mall battery kiosks aren't reporting record interest, I don't hear from friends and family that they were all duped into buying a new iPhone by a shady Genius after a trip to an Apple store about slowness. It's all made up scenarios that never happened.
Oh, and explain this: iOS 10.2 was released in December 2016. Only a high school student using a commonplace app to bring to light a line of code created all this phony outrage. There was no outrage when the whole phony slowdown actually began 14 months ago. Why? Why did it take a full year for anyone to notice that they were being throttled? Why did the "outrage" start only after it hit the news during a holiday week when everyone was sitting around their computers with nothing to do?
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But that's not what you stated or to which I responded. You said that newer iOS versions don't slow it down. The closest thing of any relevance any of us have to a measurable fact is those measurements.
Your opinion is fine, but it's just an opinion. Demanding others provide some kind of metric, then dismissing that metric because "it seems OK to me" isn't reasonable.
Except you bring your wealth into it all the time. You say that you'll just throw a phone away, or that you'll just buy a new one, because your wealth allows you to do it. That corrupts your position as Mr Average and seemingly stops you being able to understand why this is such a big issue. If you don't have millions of dollars lying around to spend on new Apple goods whenever you like, you will have a different opinion. This is most people.
I've run two Geekbench benchmarks. Ever.
If I've wasted some time here, how much have you wasted?
I wasn't talking about Geekbench.
There is a sudden shortage of batteries for the 6S Plus, and people apparently can't get appointments for weeks.
The throttling is directly related to battery condition, and battery condition is directly related to age. It's a big deal now because so many users are affected.
You know all this. Stop diverting. Respond to the points I make instead of ones you concoct in your head.
This isn't hard to understand. Apple products are great and I own a ton of them (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad Pro, Airpods). The iPhone battery issue was mishandled. It's fine that I lose battery capacity over time (as is natural for lithium ion), but the throttling was undisclosed (this isn't normal behavior - my laptop doesn't slow down as the battery wears down) and significant (battery replacement alone gave 40% performance increase for me). Yes, I measured the magnitude of the throttling using Geekbench, but it's painfully clear in day-to-day usage.
Apple made several self-serving decisions at the expense of the consumer (designing phone with insufficient battery, undisclosed throttling, not previously allowing for battery replacements at the consumer's discretion, poor customer service and wait-times with latest battery replacements). I had tried to replace my battery ~8 months ago, but Apple refused because it "passed" their diagnostic (it is likely my phone was already being throttled at this point, although I didn't know at the time that it was related to the battery). Using a third-party battery replacement is also risky (precludes future Apple servicing and no recourse if they break your phone).
Yes, Apple secretly slowing down phones likely directly increased new iPhone sales. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see the link. I almost upgraded myself.
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Now you are playing with words. The bigger issue at stake is to "define" what is meant by slow down IOS; and I can almost bet my definition is different than yours.
Your opinion of what is meant is fine, it's very difficult to prove what is meant by "slow it down".
All in all if the metric dont make sense because they don't convey the real sense of the issue, of course, they should be dismissed.
I appreciate you confirming that I'm anything-but 'average' however I help enough novice family members and I work with enough average people to know what's going on. If there was real outrage over a real problem it would have hit my radar in a major way. And, again, wealth has nothing to do with a perspective on technology.
You don't need to worry about me. I'm not the one looking to impeach Tim Cook because he chose to slow my phone by a few milliseconds to avoid it shutting down completely. What a crime. If only BMW would shut my car off when I was down to my last gallon of fuel, if only Boeing would cut the engines on a 777 entering bumpy air, what fantastic solutions those would be.
Where were they between the launch of iOS10.2 (December 12, 2016) and the high schoolers discovery (December 23, 2017)? This oh-so evil throttle....the Death Star fired its laser and.....and......and......it took a whole year for anyone to notice it? Hmm. Perhaps because it didn't affect anyone. Perhaps the only reason for the hysteria is the hysteria.
I actually don't know what points you make since all of your posts are personal criticisms of me. What is your stance? What is it that you want Apple to do beyond what they've already done to rectify a phony conspiracy that was so well planned by the top engineers in the world that it went unnoticed by the very people supposedly driven to Apple stores to be lied to by Geniuses and was left it in plain sight for a high school student to figure out?
I'm not playing with words, I'm trying to introduce some kind of science to proceedings, rather than all this arguing backwards and forwards - "it's slow" "it's fine" "it's slow" "it's fine" doesn't get us anywhere, I'm sure you'll agree.
What do any of us mean by "slow it down"? We mean things take longer, right? The metric offered was measuring something that takes some time, and particularly affects older phones, largely because they have to re-launch apps a lot due to a lack of memory.
I'm absolutely not arguing that there's some kind of conspiracy to slow down older iPhones with newer versions of iOS, just that apparent performance is reduced. There are good technological reasons for that, and I've never known this level of contention about it before.
Suggest that the entire forum is a better judge of "average people" than you.
I never said there was "real outrage".
I'm not looking to do any of those things.
Taking their phones to Apple, and being told that there was nothing wrong with them, that the batteries were fine, and that no they couldn't pay Apple to replace them. Will you please respond to this point?
The only hysteria here is coming from you.
Most of my posts in this thread are indeed direct responses to yours, and in the main you ignore them. I assume that this is because you recognise that you're wrong, but can't bear to admit it. That's your problem to deal with.
My stance, as you well know, is that this is a big deal and that consumers have been screwed due to total mismanagement of the situation on Apple's part. At no point have I demanded anything other than that you stop trying to shut down debate by declaring "it's all fine, shut up and run along now children".
This shouldn't be contentious if we are having an open discussion.
Having said that, how is it possible to introduce "some kind of science" if what we are working with is unverified youtube videos showing fallible humans trying their best to be "scientific"?
I'm not disagreeing that 3 gb ram is way better than 1 gb ram. But if accomplishing a task is faster on a newer ios release even if the app opens slower, IMVHO, that version of IOS is faster. If my main use case is safari and flicking to the bottom of a long web page is fast on ios 11, and slow on ios 10; to me IOS 11 is faster.
If your benchmark is the iphone 6/6+, there are clearly many conversations to that phone with many opinions. Much less so with every model afterward.