Apple Killed the Mac Mini (LinusTT Review)

[Altis]

I'm going to repeat what I said. You have misunderstood the tenor of my posts about Linus and his reviews. And yes, I did indeed talk about YouTube, Linus, Marques Brownlee and their respective audiences, and I did so deliberately, whether you appreciate what I said or not. Furthermore, let me suggest to you that you don't help your argument, or your credibility, by insulting the person with whom you are having a discussion, as in a phrase like "you seem unable to see it". Pardon me?

How is that an insult? It certainly wasn't intended as one. But it remains that you not only didn't understand what Linus was saying about the 'warehouse' RAM, but seemed to think it irrelevant and/or criticism when it was actually both helpful advice and praise of the product.

I'd say his review is among the most useful to general prospective buyers, and I disagree entirely that it was biased much as he seemed largely in favor of the device in most ways -- even made a case for the price tag!

 

[F-Train]

How is that an insult? It certainly wasn't intended as one. But it remains that you not only didn't understand what Linus was saying about the 'warehouse' RAM, but seemed to think it irrelevant and/or criticism when it was actually both helpful advice and praise of the product.

I'd say his review is among the most useful to general prospective buyers, and I disagree entirely that it was biased much as he seemed largely in favor of the device in most ways -- even made a case for the price tag!

I don't intend to waste time on further discussion with you. This conversation is over.

 

[Ploki]

I disagree, last time I checked server racks and custom mounts isn't the primary market for mac minis, I don't see how that should be a priority when it's compromising the potential of the machine especially when Apple is intending to appeal to a subset of the pro market now.

After a 3 year hiatus Apple could have completely re-engineered the machine. Wouldn't it have been great to have an easier RAM door, or an extra m.2/SATA bay? Also larger heatsink for better cooling and/or a built-in dGPU to give us smoother 4k/5k performance?

I agree with Arstechnica's conclusion that the mac mini is small for the sake of being small with no justification for the tradeoffs made, "The small size has no utilitarian purpose; it's small for the sake of being small."

Mac mini review—a testament to Apple’s stubbornness
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/mac-mini-review-a-testament-to-apples-stubbornness/

Nobody wants SATA, jeez, stop it with the SATA, its 2008 tech.
If there's anything i dont want in a small form factor in 2018 it's SATA.

Standard SATA3 takes space for 3x nVME drives, and mSata for 2x. It's a waste, and nobody makes SATA3.3 drives because nobody uses them.

Also no, I don't think i want a soldered dGPU given apple's history with soldered and proprietary GPUs and current thermal envelopes.

On paper, I really can't find much fault with the mini, Iris Pro 655 would be nice but that's intel's fault.

 

[trifid]

The underlying assumption of what you are saying is that Apple doesn't know how to do market research. Okeydoke.

The same market research that led to the embarrassing Mac Pro 2013? The same market research that tells Apple to put form over function by making thin unreliable keyboards for pro users?

I'd like to ask you something, how do you know if Apple did any market research or exactly what type of market research for the Mac Mini 2018? Do you have insider info or is that your assumption?

 

[ActionableMango]

That would be swell, if it worked, which it apparently doesn't, at least with the Mac mini: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/so-much-for-thermal-paste.2161171/

One is tempted to say that there's one born every minute.

Over in the Mac Pro forum there are several people doing this, and there are measurable and dramatic improvements. However, we are doing this for old computers with dried out paste, not brand new ones like the 2018 Mini.

 

[StellarVixen]

I like his review, and he is right about most of the things he said in his video.

It is illogical to hate him just because he is PC type of a guy.

 

[silver_mtb]

You and ArsTechnica are making assumptions that are perhaps not shared by Apple. I purchased a mini precisely because of its size, and I suspect that many other people will as well.

The underlying assumption of what you are saying is that Apple doesn't know how to do market research. Okeydoke.

and the underlying assumption with you is that you are a diehard mini-lover.

 

[wwohl]

This guy is a tool that hates Apple. Why doesn’t he focus what he loves?

He runs a tech channel. Almost every one of these guys are PC (windows) people, not MacOS. Thats for a pretty obvious reason: their channel content and his main use is overclocking, pc gaming, benchmarking, etc. Apples products have very little place in any of that.

And to be fair, I don't think any of us are apple fan boys. We like MacOS. But let's be honest (especially in the context of desktops), we all wish Apple had better options.

Im done with Apple for the time being. My new MacBook Pro thermal throttles just as bad as my Mac mini doing anything CPU intensive--or anything at all it seems. Design has gone too far and function has suffered. Im building a Hackintosh as the mac option would be a heavily thermal throttled Mac mini with eGPU (+$1500). I still like MacOS and intend to run it for personal use. But im over the price tag that gets you mostly just looks and the OS.

 

[StellarVixen]

and the underlying assumption with you is that you are a diehard mini-lover.

There is no difference between being diehard lover and diehard hater.

Kinda like pot calling the kettle black. Accusing others of being biased while you are also biased.

 

[Cashmonee]

I think Linus is fair, which on a forum like this one makes him seem biased. If you look at his Apple reviews, they are honest. He does not give Apple a pass for things that we tend to here. He also goes for the clickbait which is a turnoff.

I disagree, last time I checked server racks and custom mounts isn't the primary market for mac minis, I don't see how that should be a priority when it's compromising the potential of the machine especially when Apple is intending to appeal to a subset of the pro market now.

I actually think that is exactly the mini's primary market. From what I understand it is very popular in rendering farms and the like. Alex Lindsay on MacBreak Weekly often talks about using racks of minis and how common it is.

 

[silver_mtb]

He runs a tech channel. Almost every one of these guys are PC (windows) people, not MacOS. Thats for a pretty obvious reason: their channel content and his main use is overclocking, pc gaming, benchmarking, etc. Apples products have very little place in any of that.

And to be fair, I don't think any of us are apple fan boys. We like MacOS. But let's be honest (especially in the context of desktops), we all wish Apple had better options.

Im done with Apple for the time being. My new MacBook Pro thermal throttles just as bad as my Mac mini doing anything CPU intensive--or anything at all it seems. Design has gone too far and function has suffered. Im building a Hackintosh as the mac option would be a heavily thermal throttled Mac mini with eGPU (+$1500). I still like MacOS and intend to run it for personal use. But im over the price tag that gets you mostly just looks and the OS.

it is refreshing to have a voice of reason in a MR thread, thanks!

 

[ktcifone]

I moved to Apple in 2009 after losing all computers after a house fire.
9 years ive purchased 4 computers - my 24" imac was a waste of money after building custom rigs for 10 years + went to apple. moved to the 2009 mini server and havent looked back.

all systems ran like champs for 4+ years each.

 

[killawat]

Not sure if Apple did any market research but they definitely grabbed my segment of the market place, MacBook Pro users who aren't really all that mobile and don't need a screen, but need thunderbolt 3 I/O. Apple brings the brains, I'll bring the brawn (upgradable, 10 Gigabit, 5k display, etc).

 

[pl1984]

Not sure if Apple did any market research but they definitely grabbed my segment of the market place, MacBook Pro users who aren't really all that mobile and don't need a screen, but need thunderbolt 3 I/O. Apple brings the brains, I'll bring the brawn (upgradable, 10 Gigabit, 5k display, etc).

What other Apple options did you consider and why did you choose the Mini over them?

 

[killawat]

What other Apple options did you consider and why did you choose the Mini over them?

Well I migrated from a 2016 MBP 15" though that was primarily to increase the amount of RAM available. The 2018 would have been my next update had the Mac mini not been released.
The Mac Pro is out for obvious reasons, no TB3, pending refresh but unknown timeline.
iMac is out because I don't want extra displays. I require multiple inputs and have standardized on Dell's ultrasharp line over the years.

 

[pl1984]

Well I migrated from a 2016 MBP 15" though that was primarily to increase the amount of RAM available. The 2018 would have been my next update had the Mac mini not been released.
The Mac Pro is out for obvious reasons, no TB3, pending refresh but unknown timeline.
iMac is out because I don't want extra displays. I require multiple inputs and have standardized on Dell's ultrasharp line over the years.

IOW the Mini was the default option because there was nothing else available.

 

[ixxx69]

The YouTube review could be described as biased as it makes the presumption that what the reviewer and his audience cares about are the same things that Apple's intended market cares about. He doesn't have to lie about the product to be biased.

The review could be described as stupid because the reviewer is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, and he knows his audience is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, so there's no reason for him to review it (other than click bait).

That posters here keep posting negative videos, articles and blog posts, etc. for what purpose? That posters here keep looking for every minute "issue" and then running to the forum to report their findings, looking for the "likes" that we're all addicted to, and hoping for the fame of being mentioned on the front page for their amazing discovery.

This subforum is like every other subforum on MacRumors... the majority of people here are only here to **** on things. It's the same for every single Apple product discussed in these forums. Mini sucks. iMac is stupid. MBP sucks. MB is stupid. MBA is stupid. Mac Pro sucks. iPad is stupid. iPhone sucks. AppleTV sucks. HomePod is stupid. Literally EVERY MacRumors subforum, the product sucks or is stupid. Some both suck and are stupid.

Thread after thread of people complaining that Apple makes junk that no one wants, everything has gone to crap compared to the good old days, and everyone who buys their products are gullible morons.

 

[F-Train]

The YouTube review could be described as biased as it makes the presumption that what the reviewer and his audience cares about are the same things that Apple's intended market cares about. He doesn't have to lie about the product to be biased.

The review could be described as stupid because the reviewer is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, and he knows his audience is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, so there's no reason for him to review it (other than click bait).

That posters here keep posting negative videos, articles and blog posts, etc. for what purpose? That posters here keep looking for every minute "issue" and then running to the forum to report their findings, looking for the "likes" that we're all addicted to, and hoping for the fame of being mentioned on the front page for their amazing discovery.

This subforum is like every other subforum on MacRumors... the majority of people here are only here to **** on things. It's the same for every single Apple product discussed in these forums. Mini sucks. iMac is stupid. MBP sucks. MB is stupid. MBA is stupid. Mac Pro sucks. iPad is stupid. iPhone sucks. AppleTV sucks. HomePod is stupid. Literally EVERY MacRumors subforum, the product sucks or is stupid. Some both suck and are stupid.

Thread after thread of people complaining that Apple makes junk that no one wants, everything has gone to crap compared to the good old days, and everyone who buys their products are gullible morons.

It's about time that someone said this.

I can't believe that I made some pretty innocuous comments about Linus, and some essentially complimentary comments about both he and Marques Brownlee, only to be confronted by some guy who wanted to have World War III over it. Over a YouTube review of all things. And he managed to attract three cheerleaders.

What is going on here?

It's even worse in another current thread, in which I've had the temerity to make the following remarks: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rms-2018-i3-mini.2160674/page-2#post-26927698

 

[philipma1957]

The mini keeping its form factor is probably one of the few things Apple did absolutely right lately. All server racks, custom mounts, base docks, especially ones with mechanical levers for power trigger can adopt to the new mini straight away. Also by not further shrinking the room it meant the "class" of hardware that can go inside can increase, which we got in CPU TDP budget / core count. The location of the 8-figure AC-in, the ethernet, and the exhausts are also exactly where they were, with only necessary port changes and the HDMI port being moved.

Though I quite agree with the part about boot drive being held ransom by the T2 chip. Even just the fact that the drive is soldered, means the machine can only live as long as the SSD. The alternate OS booting is a lesser side effect.

Look Apple could have made a great computer.

Use the i7 8700t.

Use a removable nvme m.2 ssd and a 2.5 inch sata.

The dell optiplex micro does all this.

Apple still could of had the t.2 chip. But the internal storage would have been as much as 2tb + 4tb

The i7 8700t. Is close to the i7 8700b.

You still need an external gpu for graphics but booting internally with a 4tb sata ssd would be the big gain.

I don’t need a soldered nvme m.2 ssd. I like 2tb micron 2.5 inch sata ssds for the work I do.

But Apple does as they will. I ended up trading up a base 2014 Mac mini for a mid 2014 mini. Cost be around 130 to do it.

 

[killawat]

That posters here keep posting negative videos, articles and blog posts, etc. for what purpose? That posters here keep looking for every minute "issue" and then running to the forum to report their findings, looking for the "likes" that we're all addicted to, and hoping for the fame of being mentioned on the front page for their amazing discovery.

Negative videos? I get the sentiment but I posted this as an Apple AND Linus fan who happened to finally be reviewing our Macs and found the review surprisingly balanced. TBH, the vast majority of his fan base probably hates Apple computers now and forever, he could probably secure more views bashing/trolling every Apple product.

Now that you mention it, I have had a page two "discovery" but I didn't let the fame change me. Nope. I score my drugs on the street just like everyone else.

 

[pl1984]

The YouTube review could be described as biased as it makes the presumption that what the reviewer and his audience cares about are the same things that Apple's intended market cares about. He doesn't have to lie about the product to be biased.

It makes the presumption that the viewer is interested in hearing about the strengths and weaknesses of the product being reviewed. II feel Linus did an excellent job, for an eleven minute long video, of stating both. If you disagree with anything in the review please feel free to state what it is. Was it when he concluded "It's a pretty neat little machine"?

 

[philipma1957]

I just read intel now has a 4tb m.2 ssd

cant put it in the mac mini but it does go in the dell optiplex 7060 micro

ebay.com/itm/NEW-Intel-SSD-DC-p4511-Series-4TB-M-2-SSDPELKX040T8

ebay item number 292856342906

The soldered flash
The T2 chip to make external boot issues

And dell's optiplex shows it can be done.

to be fair the dell has a brick which I would use to beat people that say a brick is no good.

duh brick fails under one minute backup brick in the parts drawer back to work.

internal apple psu fails days later maybe weeks later back to work.

Now I like apple mac os and I did buy a mini the mid 2014 with an internal 500gb ssd and 8gb ram and I think the 2.6 dual core i5 I got it 2 weeks ago. It fits my needs.

​

​

 

[Cashmonee]

The YouTube review could be described as biased as it makes the presumption that what the reviewer and his audience cares about are the same things that Apple's intended market cares about. He doesn't have to lie about the product to be biased.

The review could be described as stupid because the reviewer is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, and he knows his audience is not interested in what the product offers to its intended audience, so there's no reason for him to review it (other than click bait).

That posters here keep posting negative videos, articles and blog posts, etc. for what purpose? That posters here keep looking for every minute "issue" and then running to the forum to report their findings, looking for the "likes" that we're all addicted to, and hoping for the fame of being mentioned on the front page for their amazing discovery.

This subforum is like every other subforum on MacRumors... the majority of people here are only here to **** on things. It's the same for every single Apple product discussed in these forums. Mini sucks. iMac is stupid. MBP sucks. MB is stupid. MBA is stupid. Mac Pro sucks. iPad is stupid. iPhone sucks. AppleTV sucks. HomePod is stupid. Literally EVERY MacRumors subforum, the product sucks or is stupid. Some both suck and are stupid.

Thread after thread of people complaining that Apple makes junk that no one wants, everything has gone to crap compared to the good old days, and everyone who buys their products are gullible morons.

While I agree that sometimes forums of all kinds can slant toward the negative, I do think healthy discussion about pros and cons is good. Linus' review was pretty balanced. And while the title is certainly clickbait, if you watch the video the title makes sense and is correct. The 2018 mini does not have the same mission as the original mini. This is not a switcher machine. It is definitely now slanted more toward a pro/prosumer demographic. That is not a knock nor negative assessment. In fact, I took Linus' review as rather positive.

I think it should be brought to light that the Apple Tax is higher than ever, and that there are clear, comparable alternatives that offer a better value on paper. I think Apple needs to be questioned and taken to task for their questionable design decisions. Not doing that leads to a company that tells you it is normal for your $1000+ device to bend. Or that denies that a keyboard failure is a design flaw and charges hundreds to replace it because the entire computer is inexplicably glued together. Communities like these are the reason Apple has to start their repair programs. If no one ever shined the light, Apple would never cop to their failures.

 

[Ploki]

I just read intel now has a 4tb m.2 ssd

cant put it in the mac mini but it does go in the dell optiplex 7060 micro

ebay.com/itm/NEW-Intel-SSD-DC-p4511-Series-4TB-M-2-SSDPELKX040T8

ebay item number 292856342906

The soldered flash
The T2 chip to make external boot issues

And dell's optiplex shows it can be done.

to be fair the dell has a brick which I would use to beat people that say a brick is no good.

duh brick fails under one minute backup brick in the parts drawer back to work.

internal apple psu fails days later maybe weeks later back to work.

Now I like apple mac os and I did buy a mini the mid 2014 with an internal 500gb ssd and 8gb ram and I think the 2.6 dual core i5 I got it 2 weeks ago. It fits my needs.

I bought the NVME TB3 enclosure, so yes i could put it on the mini - on one of the 4 thunderbolt 3 ports. Of which Dell has none?
I don't mind having it outside - i prefer having it outside with the same speed as i would have it internally, because i can detach it and use it with my laptop. I can have all my projects on them and I can continue working on my other machine even if the mini PSU fails. With no performance hit.
Can you do that on the Optiplex? No you can't, it has crappy USB3 only, and its not all that cheaper in the first place, with the i7 the price quickly climbs to Mac Mini prices...

Why do you guys compare just CPUs and storage? Good tb3 implementation is worth a lot.

T2 chip makes no issues with external boot, that was the only thing that worked on my refunded i9 15".

 

[pl1984]

I bought the NVME TB3 enclosure, so yes i could put it on the mini - on one of the 4 thunderbolt 3 ports. Of which Dell has none?
I don't mind having it outside - i prefer having it outside with the same speed as i would have it internally, because i can detach it and use it with my laptop. I can have all my projects on them and I can continue working on my other machine even if the mini PSU fails. With no performance hit.
Can you do that on the Optiplex? No you can't, it has crappy USB3 only, and its not all that cheaper in the first place, with the i7 the price quickly climbs to Mac Mini prices...

Why do you guys compare just CPUs and storage? Good tb3 implementation is worth a lot.

T2 chip makes no issues with external boot, that was the only thing that worked on my refunded i9 15".

Because that's the only way to expand any current Mac. On the PC side one would buy a system which can accommodate these things internally making TB3 much less important.