Apple Made Me Buy a Windows HP Workstation

[DPUser]

Maybe I should just pickup a machine to run headless over ethernet for my VEP5 stuff.

This.

Another approach: machine room. I don't care how loud the computer is (as long as it doesn't rise to jet engine levels).

 

[dj23andMe]

Apple has over-focussed on miniaturization, thinness, colors and iPhones letting the Mac range go to rot. https://buyersguide.macrumors.com//#Mac

 

[andysh]

You know, there is a lot of turnover in the mobile phone industry. Companies that are dominant one day can find themselves facing irrelevancy the next. Just ask RIM/BlackBerry, Palm, Nokia, etc.

Someday, the iPhone will no longer be insanely popular. In fact, we are seeing the beginning of this now with the declining iPhone shipments, I think. When this decline accelerates, Apple is going to have to figure how they are going to keep making cash, and they will probably look towards the Mac. (After all, the iPad is probably their most in danger product line right now.) Of course, by that time they will have driven away some of their best customers with the trash can that they didn't update for years on end, and the professional line of notebooks that they decided to assemble with copious amounts of glue and solder. They should be listening to their customers, especially the ones who kept the lights on back in the mid-to-late 1990's when they were known as "beleaguered Apple Computer" and trying to stave off bankruptcy. What Apple is doing is very short sighted, especially when they have more resources than ever to dedicate to their products.

Phone customers can be very fickle. But, do you know tends to be more loyal? That's right! Professional customers who depend on your hardware and software for their livelihoods, and not people that may stop buying your products just because the screen doesn't have a curved edge.

Canning Aperture? ASANINE!
Angering all of their customers who edit professional-level video with Final Cut Pro X? STUPID!
Turning the Mac Pro into something that can only be upgraded minimally? FOOLISH!
Not updating the Mac Pro for 3 years? MORONIC!
Soldering RAM onto the logic board of a professional level notebook? IDIOTIC!

The overall "State of the Mac" is abysmal. There used to be a time when you could tell someone you was considering switching to Mac to go and buy almost any machine they wanted from Apple. You definitely can't do that today. You have to tell this person all of the models to avoid, like the Mid 2012 MacBook Pro (complete with optical drive and mechanical hard drive) that they are still selling for around $1200. Or, the MacBook Air which is woefully out-of-date with it's gigantic bezels and horrible TN display panel that wouldn't even be fit for a $200 Chromebook. And don't forget about the entry level iMac's which come standard with 5400 RPM hard drives! There is also the 15" MBP, which is still currently selling for over $2000 with a processor that's two generations old.

Someday, I think that Apple will regret turning their backs on these types of consumers (even if they certainly aren't numerous). If may not be today, or even tomorrow, but I do think it will eventually happen, and they will have no one to blame except for themselves. I, myself, am far closer to a regular consumer and am not a pro by any stretch. But even I am not happy now. I want to replace my 2011 MBP with a new model, but buying a $2500 machine without user upgradeable storage and RAM is off-putting.

Good on you for buying that HP machine. Honestly, Apple doesn't deserve your business anymore, and it sounds like you found a machine that suits you needs better.

I completely agree with you.
This is a sad, but unfortunately true thread.
And that's why I switched to Windows and bought a Dell XPS 15 maxed out.
It flies, Windows 10 is finally a good OS and you know what, all my software works without aaany issue.
My next step will be buying a workstation, most probably a Dell Precision...I'll wait until June, just in case, but that's the last chance I give to Apple.
If after June there's nothing new (and decent!), I'll sell every Mac (and Apple accessories) I have and bye bye Apple.
I'm sooo tired of this insanely overpriced, outdated and unpowerful tech that they try to sell.
It's a shame and it's too bad that there's nobody like Steve Jobs in the company anymore...someone looking ahead, someone with (real) high standards, someone with the fire inside that wants to be the BEST, not (just) the most profitable company...

 

[rezwits]

The all too terrible part of this is, most people love their iOS devices because of the eco-system, which is usually based on a "Mac" starting point. And like many posts in this thread said, Apple is not even reading these threads and doesn't even care about the Mac platform really. It makes what "money" it makes. But like others in this thread have said the Mac users were the ones that spread the word. I sent Tim Cook an email, saying hey man, give us some models every year and good ones.

The real truth of the matter I feel, is that what makes the iPhone and iOS devices succeed is that they are (or were) updated every year, FLAT. So you had your announcement, 3 months of people rushing to purchase, and then 3 months of waddling. Then 6 months of crickets with people waiting for the next model of iOS device, but then they announce and then repeat. This model WORKS.

But with the mac platform they release a new model 2012 then everyone is like YES finally purchase for about 6 months, and then they stop for 6 months, and go NEW MODEL? nope, wait another year, and WE WON'T TOUCH a year old model at RETAIL PRICE$. But they go so far as to let them sit for THREE YEARS!! wtf? the computer industry is MOVING JACK!

Having a model sit on your store for 2-3 years with old specs is just STUPID. I mean now days it isn't Microsoft Apple has to worry about, it's freaking hundreds of PC Vendors of sorts, Motherboard makers, Case Designers, Video Cards, SSDs, that's all kinds of products that these 1-2-3 year old Macs have to compete against, and they just can't do it anymore with a 2 year release cycle, or 3 years is suicide!!

Look at all the super power house multi core workstations and even some laptops that are 4K!

The facts are clear, APPLE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MAC. This WWDC could quite possibly be the NAIL in the coffin...for what the Mac platform means to Apple...

 

[Synchro3]

There is exactly no real reason desktop computers have to be thin or little, like the iToys. Even an iMac could be thicker, but with a real GPU etc.

Waiting for WWDC, otherwise my next computer could be a Dell Precision Tower 3620 with Xeon E3-1270v5.

 

[ForkHandles]

I wonder what the average age is of people posting on this thread is?

I say this not to invalidate the points that you have all made, but to suggest that the world has moved on. What apple was and what it needs to become are two different things. Yes there are some users who have a need for a device bordering on supercomputer but they are so few and far between that they can be catered for by other means.

For example editing 4K video, I can do this quite happily on my iMac(2011) or my rMBP(2012). The rider is that my movies tend to average five minutes in length, I consider myself an oddity wanting to shoot 4K In the first place. The OP wants to make 4K movies much longer than 4 minutes I assume, hence the need for a Mac Pro, he represents a tiny proportion of people buying into Apple <0.0001%. (Made that up, probably true)

The majority of people I know who have bought into macs after taking on iPhones have never needed them, the halo effect took them to that purchase. The majority of people can do all of their computing on their phablet these days, they do not need a workstation of any description.

So my point is this, you have been driven to a HP workstation by Apple, they didn't take their eyes of the ball and accidentally lose the old boys of yesteryear. Instead their collective thoughts are on how one billion people in China could be convinced into buying into their ecosystem, that is where the next big profit margin lies. Old boys, who wish to swap out components, do not bring money into the business. Apple will never regret leaving superusers behind, there aren't enough of us in the first place to demand their attention.

Apple is a mobile computing device company these days, it happens to sell computers as well as an ancillary benefit. How long they continue to produce desktops/laptops is anyone's guess.

 

[Mark Holmes]

Just curious what monitor you bought for this bad boy!

Oh, I kept that simple - I've been using a 27" 2560x1440p Dell midrange monitor on the old Mac Pro. Been really happy with it, so I bought this years version of the same model. The DPI suits my eyes, and Dell seems to make a fairly accurate monitor color-wise. I keep playing with the idea of a very large 30"+ 4K monitor, but never quite make the jump.

 

[H2SO4]

I wonder what the average age is of people posting on this thread is?

I say this not to invalidate the points that you have all made, but to suggest that the world has moved on. What apple was and what it needs to become are two different things. Yes there are some users who have a need for a device bordering on supercomputer but they are so few and far between that they can be catered for by other means.

For example editing 4K video, I can do this quite happily on my iMac(2011) or my rMBP(2012). The rider is that my movies tend to average five minutes in length, I consider myself an oddity wanting to shoot 4K In the first place. The OP wants to make 4K movies much longer than 4 minutes I assume, hence the need for a Mac Pro, he represents a tiny proportion of people buying into Apple <0.0001%. (Made that up, probably true)

The majority of people I know who have bought into macs after taking on iPhones have never needed them, the halo effect took them to that purchase. The majority of people can do all of their computing on their phablet these days, they do not need a workstation of any description.

So my point is this, you have been driven to a HP workstation by Apple, they didn't take their eyes of the ball and accidentally lose the old boys of yesteryear. Instead their collective thoughts are on how one billion people in China could be convinced into buying into their ecosystem, that is where the next big profit margin lies. Old boys, who wish to swap out components, do not bring money into the business. Apple will never regret leaving superusers behind, there aren't enough of us in the first place to demand their attention.

Apple is a mobile computing device company these days, it happens to sell computers as well as an ancillary benefit. How long they continue to produce desktops/laptops is anyone's guess.

Except that there is nothing to stop them doing it all, and still doing it well.
Car manufacturers make cars or all types. Look at BMW, 1 series right through to 7 series. With hybrids as an option also.
My company in power electronics. Single phase all the way to three phase, 400W up to 9.6MW, transformerless or not, modular or not, single or paralleled.
You choose.
We may charge you more for the obscure ones but we at least give you the option.

 

[AidenShaw]

Oh, I kept that simple - I've been using a 27" 2560x1440p Dell midrange monitor on the old Mac Pro. Been really happy with it, so I bought this years version of the same model. The DPI suits my eyes, and Dell seems to make a fairly accurate monitor color-wise. I keep playing with the idea of a very large 30"+ 4K monitor, but never quite make the jump.

Haha.

I have the 4K Dell P2716Q, and run it at a scale factor of 150% - 2560x1440 !

 

[pmau]

But with the mac platform they release a new model 2012 then everyone is like YES finally purchase for about 6 months, and then they stop for 6 months, and go NEW MODEL? nope, wait another year, and WE WON'T TOUCH a year old model at RETAIL PRICE$. But they go so far as to let them sit for THREE YEARS!! wtf? the computer industry is MOVING JACK!

That is exactly my issue as well. Macs are really great when they come out, but then there's no upgrade path for the next few years.

I have already chosen a desktop MSI and a Dell XPS 15. But I wait with the purchase until after WWDC.
The current MacPro situation is a real shame, it's not even funny.

Right now, I'm sitting in front of a MacPro 2008 with Cinema Display and my Retina MacBook 15" died of liquid damage.
My MacPro was upgradeable with SSD's and GPU's. It's still fine after 7 years.

Apple does not understand this: I really had 7k Euro to spend on hardware, but the current iMac has no TB3 and a crappy GPU for its 5k display. I also cannot buy an identical MBP for 3k again, which has really old hardware.

Even IF the WWDC announcements are GREAT. I know for sure that 6 month after that the PC Laptop market will update GPU specs or at least LOWER prices.

Apple does none of that.

I might buy a low end 13" MacBookPro to at least use Xcode.
But for the rest I'm 93% positive to switch.

It's really disappointing.

And I have to shout it here: IT IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.
It is what I get for the money.

I would be totally angry after one year when everyone in the PC world has moved on.
I would buy a new MacPro midi tower with two hard drive bays and a PCIe GPU instantly.

The Trashcan MacPro was impressive, but it now sits in the store for 4k Euro of nonsense hardware.
Sorry for the rant, but I think that was it for me.

I mostly work on remote servers using Terminal windows and Xcode for iOS development.

I will bite the bullet, install a good Linux system and use my old Mac Hardware for builds using Remote Desktop.
Luckily my MacPro still runs ElCaptan and Xcode 7.

Again, sorry for the wall of text, but every time I read frustrated posts on MR I really get angry and have to comment.

A Skylake SLI GTX 980 with TB3 and USB-C is really easy to assemble these days.
And a Dell XPS might run Linux for everything I need. Have not checked compatibility yet.

 

[Hank Carter]

I wonder what the average age is of people posting on this thread is?

I say this not to invalidate the points that you have all made, but to suggest that the world has moved on. What apple was and what it needs to become are two different things. Yes there are some users who have a need for a device bordering on supercomputer but they are so few and far between that they can be catered for by other means.

You are looking at this from a consumer perspective. There are tons of people out there doing serious work that need a serious machine.

For example editing 4K video, I can do this quite happily on my iMac(2011) or my rMBP(2012). The rider is that my movies tend to average five minutes in length, I consider myself an oddity wanting to shoot 4K In the first place. The OP wants to make 4K movies much longer than 4 minutes I assume, hence the need for a Mac Pro, he represents a tiny proportion of people buying into Apple <0.0001%. (Made that up, probably true)

There is 4k off your iPhone or DSLR and then there is the 4k that is used to produce the movies and TV shows that you watch. In terms of data footprint they are like day and night. No one is making the next summer blockbuster on an iMac. You need a real workstation for that.

Everyone is pushing 4k and VR. VR projects in particular are unbelievable processing intensive and need very powerful workstations.

The majority of people I know who have bought into macs after taking on iPhones have never needed them, the halo effect took them to that purchase. The majority of people can do all of their computing on their phablet these days, they do not need a workstation of any description.

People primarily consume on tablets. There is very little producing beyond email that is done on tablets.

So my point is this, you have been driven to a HP workstation by Apple, they didn't take their eyes of the ball and accidentally lose the old boys of yesteryear. Instead their collective thoughts are on how one billion people in China could be convinced into buying into their ecosystem, that is where the next big profit margin lies. Old boys, who wish to swap out components, do not bring money into the business. Apple will never regret leaving superusers behind, there aren't enough of us in the first place to demand their attention.

Apple is a mobile computing device company these days, it happens to sell computers as well as an ancillary benefit. How long they continue to produce desktops/laptops is anyone's guess.

Sorry, I'm not old nor am I a luddite. The consumer market is an ever expanding field, but someone still has to produce the content and engineer the devices driving this expansion. And for that you need a real computer. Life can't be all play.

 

[strukt]

And this is what I have come to realize. Apple is a company making products for the average consumer now. Most people are perfectly happy with that.

I don't think that will change.

 

[merkinmuffley]

Apple has watches to sell, they can't be bothered with these computers and the pesky people who use them.

 

[H2SO4]

And this is what I have come to realize. Apple is a company making products for the average consumer now. Most people are perfectly happy with that.

I don't think that will change.

I think you are spot on.

 

[Synchro3]

Apple has watches to sell, they can't be bothered with these computers and the pesky people who use them.

Yes, when I realized this thread, I knew this is not Apple Computers Inc. anymore (nothing against the Lady's ): https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ladies-only-thread-accessories-and-more.1897768/

 

[zephonic]

Good luck.

Indeed.

As much as Apple's current desktop line sucks, my weekly tango with my wife's Dell XPS13 serves to remind that things really aren't any better over yonder.
[doublepost=1462033068][/doublepost]

Oh, I kept that simple - I've been using a 27" 2560x1440p Dell midrange monitor on the old Mac Pro. Been really happy with it, so I bought this years version of the same model. The DPI suits my eyes, and Dell seems to make a fairly accurate monitor color-wise. I keep playing with the idea of a very large 30"+ 4K monitor, but never quite make the jump.

I don't get it, you say your old MacPro couldn't handle 4K and that's why you got the HP Z, but you are editing that footage on a 2560x1440?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Indeed.

As much as Apple's current desktop line sucks, my weekly tango with my wife's Dell XPS13 serves to remind that things really aren't any better over yonder.
[doublepost=1462033068][/doublepost]

I don't get it, you say your old MacPro couldn't handle 4K and that's why you got the HP Z, but you are editing that footage on a 2560x1440?

The resolution of the monitor used for editing doesn't matter soooo much because the the videos are displayed smaller in his edit suite anyway and if he wanted to display 4K video there should be a dedicated preview monitor with a color profile assigned to it for final output. That's the standard best practice way to edit : one workstation monitor for edit and one preview monitor to watch the edit.

 

[gpat]

I wonder why Apple doesn't sell a barebone case + motherboard + PSU at $499, with workstation-grade quality and their trademark industrial design (think PowerMac G5), even only on the online store with maybe BTO custom options and a pair of ready configurations, they would make a lot of people happy, retain very good margins and kill the hackintosh market.

 

[Mark Holmes]

You are looking at this from a consumer perspective. There are tons of people out there doing serious work that need a serious machine.





There is 4k off your iPhone or DSLR and then there is the 4k that is used to produce the movies and TV shows that you watch. In terms of data footprint they are like day and night. No one is making the next summer blockbuster on an iMac. You need a real workstation for that.

Everyone is pushing 4k and VR. VR projects in particular are unbelievable processing intensive and need very powerful workstations.



People primarily consume on tablets. There is very little producing beyond email that is done on tablets.



Sorry, I'm not old nor am I a luddite. The consumer market is an ever expanding field, but someone still has to produce the content and engineer the devices driving this expansion. And for that you need a real computer. Life can't be all play.

Thanks, Hank, for responding. Have a video job in a couple hours and I need to get gear together and get on the road. Your words can serve as mine.
[doublepost=1462036486][/doublepost]

The resolution of the monitor used for editing doesn't matter soooo much because the the videos are displayed smaller in his edit suite anyway and if he wanted to display 4K video there should be a dedicated preview monitor with a color profile assigned to it for final output. That's the standard best practice way to edit : one workstation monitor for edit and one preview monitor to watch the edit.

Exactly. The monitor you use as your workspace has nothing to do with the pixel size of the material you edit. I preview on a separate monitor used only for video preview. Its color gamut and quality is beyond a typical computer monitor. That being said, I shoot 4K and deliver in 1080p. The advantages to shooting in 4K are numerous, but for me, on a multiple camera shoot, it effectively doubles the number of cameras. It enables me to crop, zoom, pan and resize the original 4K material... which uses even more processor and memory... ;-)
I often don't even fire up the secondary monitor, but simply preview the video in a small window displaying 960x540 - half 1080p.
You don't need a 4K working monitor to work with 4k material.

 

[bruinsrme]

LOL, iPad Pro for what pros? Not video and film guys, that's for sure. I think Tim Cook and Phil Schiller need to take a week off, and spend the time touring some post houses, indie film offices, live theatre sound departments, etc. They'll get an earful. When it comes to these kind of customers, listening is something Apple execs should try.

Totally agree.
Their software needs a little work as well.
There is little innovation on the hardware side as of late. Time to focus on software and exploiting that their hardware is capable of.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

And this is what I have come to realize. Apple is a company making products for the average consumer now. Most people are perfectly happy with that.

I don't think that will change.

I disagree most people are happy with that. A 'current' iMac with a 3TB drive as it's largest option. The entire mac line is ancient even forgetting the mac pro. No one is happy with their total dropping the ball on getting product out timely. It's frankly and embarrassment.

 

[762999]

Obviously the only monitor that would make it worth it:

Probably a 8k, I can't see any pixels!
[doublepost=1462039189][/doublepost]For me in Canada, an almost loaded IMac is 3900$ : I7 with 8gb ram, 395x and 512gb Ssd (4485$ with tax). I bought a PC for 2000$: I7 4790k, 32gb ram,m2 drive and 4K screen. I never stopped using Windows but will probably stop using Mac when my rmbp stops working.

I used the machine as a hackintosh at first but it wasn't really needed so I removed that partition.

 

[jameslmoser]

Apple is a mobile computing device company these days, it happens to sell computers as well as an ancillary benefit. How long they continue to produce desktops/laptops is anyone's guess.

Maybe as long as they require you to have a Mac to develop for those mobile devices?

I have to agree with everyone else on this thread. In 2006 I bought my first Mac Pro, because I wanted a Unix desktop with commercial support, and am a power user. I know I am not Apple's typical customer, however, I soon after fell in love with it and when my family asked me to help them buy a computer guess what I convinced them to buy? I have a large family and convinced them to buy iMacs, MacBooks, Mac Minis, etc. In 2009 I started convincing them to buy iPhones, iPads, Apple TV's, etc. I have convinced employers to buy Macs for their developers, myself included.

Then those devices got old, and when they asked me about new computers, I actually couldn't recommend Macs when I have been thinking about other options myself (especially when Lion came out). So they didn't buy Macs. They still have iPhones, but they don't upgrade as frequently as I upgraded mine, and now that they don't have macs I can see them buying something else eventually.

I have upgraded my cMP as much as I can, and it will probably be my last. I'm actually wishing now I would have bought a Surface instead of my iPad Pro. Windows 10 with Ubuntu user land is looking pretty neat, meanwhile Apple removed RAID support from their Disk Utility App.

I understand Apple makes most of its money off of its iPhone, but come on. They are smart people and have to realize that its success was in a large part because of their professional users they had before the iPhone. Why can't they focus on Macs and mobile devices? They have many more employee's than they did when they launched the iPhone.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Thanks, Hank, for responding. Have a video job in a couple hours and I need to get gear together and get on the road. Your words can serve as mine.
[doublepost=1462036486][/doublepost]
Exactly. The monitor you use as your workspace has nothing to do with the pixel size of the material you edit. I preview on a separate monitor used only for video preview. Its color gamut and quality is beyond a typical computer monitor. That being said, I shoot 4K and deliver in 1080p. The advantages to shooting in 4K are numerous, but for me, on a multiple camera shoot, it effectively doubles the number of cameras. It enables me to crop, zoom, pan and resize the original 4K material... which uses even more processor and memory... ;-)
I often don't even fire up the secondary monitor, but simply preview the video in a small window displaying 960x540 - half 1080p.
You don't need a 4K working monitor to work with 4k material.

Same reason why people edit 20,36, 50 or 100 mpixels equally well on a 1080p monitor. Nobody edits media at 100% view. We always zooming in and out.

Sure it helps to have more desktop space for the tool bars and everything to be nicely spaced apart. But if you want to create something you can do it with anything available. People forget that movies like Jurassic Park, Terminator 2 and Toy Story were edited and developed on 200mhz machines attached to 1024x768 monitors.

 

[Hank Carter]

Sure it helps to have more desktop space for the tool bars and everything to be nicely spaced apart. But if you want to create something you can do it with anything available. People forget that movies like Jurassic Park, Terminator 2 and Toy Story were edited and developed on 200mhz machines attached to 1024x768 monitors.

Try 100mhz...

ILM donated those machines to CalARTS and they made up our first SGI lab in the Character Animation department. If I remember correctly they gave us either 4 or 6 boxes with Alias, Softimage and Wavefront hooked up to a Targa frame buffer and Lion Lamb controller that dumped images to 3/4 tape, maybe BETA.

It was absolutely stupefying to us, like someone had dumped the Holy Grail on our doorstep one morning. I don't think we left the room for the first week.


The rest of the lab was Amiga's.