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Apple Music Lossless: What Devices are Supported?
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If you have a Dolby ATMOS system, will the Apple TV over HDMI support that for music the way if does for Movie soundtracks I wonder. (I wonder a lot of things after reading this press release and thread - certainly more convoluted than the typical iPhone spec sheet)
The entire chain will influence what you ultimately hear, but it should not make a difference whether you play from Safari or iTunes. I don't know exact details about this particular test but typically both the lossy and lossless fragment are stored in wav (which is just PCM wrapped in a file). So you encode WAV(1)→AAC and then decode AAC→WAV(2) and then you compare WAV(1) and WAV(2). The decoder is standardised so any decoder should generate the exact same PCM bit sequence. The encoder however is not standardised. WAV is supported by virtually every platform, but as you mentioned, the way you play the samples will have an impact. If you use a Bluetooth headset for example you will compare double compression with single compression. In addition, applications like iTunes might apply additional EQ settings which might cause different artefacts on compressed audio.
So Apple's FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLAR headphones don't support lossless audio?! This is hilarious.
I was hoping for a few different samples. That is a hard track to listen to. A couple of classical pieces and a couple of solo instruments would be better samples to understand the difference.
This is very misleading and plain wrong, the author and MacRumors need to check their facts. I have thousands of ALAC files on my devices. Several years ago I ripped my entire CD-collection to ALAC. There's no problem what so ever to listen to these on my Airpod Max, Airpod Pro or Homepods with either iPhone, iPad or MAC as source.
The “thing” with the new high-res lossless tier is that Apple has capped the wireless connection to 24-bit/48kHz, it's a limitation of AirPlay and Bluetooth.
Apple hasn't specified the capabilities of the built in DAC in the airpods or the homepods. if we are lucky they can handle a level of resolution of at least 24-bit/192 kHz and if so, it's just a matter of a new firmware so that the AirPod Max can use a lightning to lightning cable (and/or usb-c) for audio transfer.
The Apple lightning to 3.5mm adapter is caped at 24-bit/48kHz so the existing 3.5 to lightning cable is not an option for true highres.
But please do not forget that lossless CD-quality is 16-bit/44.1kHz, so eaven if we're stuck with 24/48 on our airpods and homepods it will be several steps better than what we have today.
Not true. The DAC in the 3.5 apabter is actually very goog. Read this https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/
Atmos is an object oriented format, where the sounds are objects which can be moved in space, normally above and around you. (Fixed that for you.)
No matter how hard they try, a stereo mix cannot place you inside, say, a cathedral, where the reverberations come at you from all directions. Atmos can do that, either through a set of however many surround speakers you can afford, or through spatial audio inside a set of headphones. Good equipment and good mix and mastering engineers can create an excellent soundstage in front of you, but they can't put you in the room with only stereo.
I've listened to the Yamaha simulated reverb feature, noted that it exists and then turned it off.
Unless you've actually listened to music mixed in Dolby Atmos, you don't know what you're missing. It's not hype. It really is revelatory.
I can 100% tell the difference between an MP3 and a ALAC track. And so can many others! I plug my external driver into my Denon Amp, I have MP3 albums downloaded from years ago, I also have ALAC versions I burned from CD’s. I can tell the difference! I’ve seen a few people reply saying no Human can tell lol. I assure you the people that were paying £20 a month for hi res subscription like me can tell. No it’s not a placebo. There is a real difference. And if you REALLY don’t believe me, then let’s put money on it and do a test. I’ve literally just signed up to this site, to say THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE THAT CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE. this muppet who says he is an engineer and has all this expensive gear, that can’t tell the difference, that’s on YOU mate. You must be crap at your damn job or have a hearing problem. So to everyone else reading this, don’t listen these muppets saying it is impossible to tell. MIC DROP.
There is no such thing as “an MP3” and Apple Music does not even use MP3.
No, Apple headphones apparently don’t work at all with this. Even I’ve you had a lightning to lightning supposedly.
Interesting thought. I wonder what the bandwidth of UWB is. I imagine all the AirTag interference would cause some problems now since that kinda a problem with regular Bluetooth.
This is where my thinking is at now. Going through the stages of grief with my AirPods Pro Max not being able to do hi-res lossless. Went through denial after the first article, then anger. Started bargaining, and now I can just accept it.
What do you mean there’s no such thing as an mp3. You can still have an mp3 right? Apple might not use them but you could still have mp3s on your Mac right?
I’ll stick to CDs and SACDs. When I do want to check an album I will continue to use Qobuz. Thanks though Apple.
During my lifetime (with an EE background) - I have participated in lots of audio cable blind tests.
And usually the cheapest speaker wire wins with most votes for best sound. Not a single high end audio "enthusiast" have ever been able to differentiate reliable between any cables as long as cable could carry the current and about equal in length and mm2. (Even tested in sound dead rooms - no change in "winner")
Funnily enough - no "HiFi" editors or journalist have ever wanted to publish their participation following revelation of their "winners" - but I know who participated...
But "HiFi cable companies" spend a lot of advertising $$$.
And "high-res" MP3 is not that different. Human hearing is not precise for 99.99% of people. But about 0.01% can maybe differentiate - but usually not tell which is right and which is "wrong" as that is usually down to personal preference and what you have "tuned" you ear to listen to. Our brains like "consistency" so it will try and pick familiarity over "quality" - so sound is often "mind over matter"
I like great sound - but I do not need to have silver or gold cables - or lossless audio in earbuds. (Most trained EE's laugh loudly at all the snake oil "audiophile" products - as we can actually measure them and calculate the performance...)
I would like a wireless sound replacement for BT that had very little lag though - that would be great.
My sound setup : RME Fireface UFX + iLoud MTM's - great combo - with an Airport Express as "AirPlay" into the RME. My MBP is connected to a CalDigit TS3+ dock - but the audio out on that dock is terrible. No lossless audio could improve the analogue output from that crap. Optical out is fine though so that feeds the Fireface. CalDigit did not manage to butcher the optical part.
But if Apple made a HomePod with "line in" for both left/right (analogue or optical) - I would consider switching the RME and MTM's off. HomePod is a better speaker with flatter frequency range than the MTM's even fully calibrated and checked. But the MTM's are really good for my 20sqm room. But HomePod is better apart from the lack of real wired inputs. (Calibrations & performance validated by my NTI XL2)
If I did "pro" mixing from my little office - my speaker of choice would probably be the Neumann KH80 DSP - but their "mounts" are ridiculously expensive. But their speakers are great.
And usually the cheapest speaker wire wins with most votes for best sound. Not a single high end audio "enthusiast" have ever been able to differentiate reliable between any cables as long as cable could carry the current and about equal in length and mm2. (Even tested in sound dead rooms - no change in "winner")
Funnily enough - no "HiFi" editors or journalist have ever wanted to publish their participation following revelation of their "winners" - but I know who participated...
But "HiFi cable companies" spend a lot of advertising $$$.And "high-res" MP3 is not that different. Human hearing is not precise for 99.99% of people. But about 0.01% can maybe differentiate - but usually not tell which is right and which is "wrong" as that is usually down to personal preference and what you have "tuned" you ear to listen to. Our brains like "consistency" so it will try and pick familiarity over "quality" - so sound is often "mind over matter"
I like great sound - but I do not need to have silver or gold cables - or lossless audio in earbuds. (Most trained EE's laugh loudly at all the snake oil "audiophile" products - as we can actually measure them and calculate the performance...)
I would like a wireless sound replacement for BT that had very little lag though - that would be great.
My sound setup : RME Fireface UFX + iLoud MTM's - great combo - with an Airport Express as "AirPlay" into the RME. My MBP is connected to a CalDigit TS3+ dock - but the audio out on that dock is terrible. No lossless audio could improve the analogue output from that crap. Optical out is fine though so that feeds the Fireface. CalDigit did not manage to butcher the optical part.
But if Apple made a HomePod with "line in" for both left/right (analogue or optical) - I would consider switching the RME and MTM's off. HomePod is a better speaker with flatter frequency range than the MTM's even fully calibrated and checked. But the MTM's are really good for my 20sqm room. But HomePod is better apart from the lack of real wired inputs. (Calibrations & performance validated by my NTI XL2)
If I did "pro" mixing from my little office - my speaker of choice would probably be the Neumann KH80 DSP - but their "mounts" are ridiculously expensive. But their speakers are great.
Can't comment on the measurements, but in my experience it doesn't sound great connected to AKG K702s. Could be the headphone amp in it that's the problem, idk.
None of this will burn through my screaming tinnitus..
I’m right there with you. I felt like for the price I was getting a high quality hifi noise canceling headphone. However I guess we have to remember Max for Apple means maximum size not maximum features. Pro means maximum features. And these expensive headphones are still a great listen and super comfortable but they’re not Apple Pro.
Oh, there's GOT to be an AirPod update to this with a new codec to support it... I REALLY don't dig going back to a headphone jack on the iPhone to get lossless.
I think this was one of the only selling points of note for Sony's earbud and phone range that was worthy.. a overall bitrate for audio if you bought into their ecosystem.
I think this was one of the only selling points of note for Sony's earbud and phone range that was worthy.. a overall bitrate for audio if you bought into their ecosystem.
Well actually it’s pretty easy to know if you are among the 1% who are able to hear that kind of difference. Please have an hearing test and post it here to let us know what is the « spec sheet » of your amazing ears …
Then we’ll know for sure if you *can* hear anything above 20khz or if it’s just « in your head » like so many audiophiles …
Because without proof anyone who says « they can hear a difference » is just like « I can see dead people » to me … and hearing could be measured so without it, it’s just a myth (that helps sell very expensive hardware that make people feel better and superior)
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Be sure that those guys not even do a real blind test, but are switching between iTunes and Tidal on their computer (or whatever) exactly knowing what they are listening to at this moment. Even better when we are talking about two different master sources and/or turning up/down the volume while listening. After this kind of "test", they are sure they have those golden ears …
What I mean is that "an MP3" doesn't mean anything without knowledge about the encoder, profile, bitrate etc. Most people can hear the difference between a 128 MP3 and lossless. However with 256 AAC or above the number of people that can tell a difference becomes much smaller. In practice there are of course many factors in play. If you have high-end equipment, the right tracks and good ears you can hear a difference between 256 AAC and lossless. But with the equipment most people use and typical popular music it's really hard to hear differences. A link to an ABX test has been posted before, it is really worth trying.