Apple on Verizon - it's officially...

[MarlboroLite]

Why won't you switch too AT&T?

Marc

Terrible service in the NY area. Verizon is infinitely superior in these parts so it's just not an option for me. I'd be paying over 100 bucks a month and in return receive crappy service that's probably worth only $40 of what I put in. With Verizon at least I get my money's worth by them actually delivering a reliable product for what I pay them for.

 

[thetexan]

Wow, it's nice to see so many Apple insiders come post here. I wish I could read the mind of Steve Jobs like so many people in here can. I wish I were a master of telecom engineering and knew the ins and outs like so many of you can.

Here are some facts:

-If Apple stays with AT&T, then they are content with about the current share of customers. Most everyone who wanted the iPhone bad enough to switch to AT&T has already done so. They'll sell a lot of 4th gen devices, most of that to current owners of 3G/3GS so their number of sales will be impressive but their market share will stay still.

-CDMA is dying just like GSM is. LTE is not backwards compatible with GSM. Both AT&T and Verizon will require a complete network overhaul, and both will have the old (GSM/CDMA) systems running with the new (LTE) system for a while before the old ones are shut down. I expect at least another 10 years.

-Every other carrier is able to make phones with CDMA chips and phones with GSM chips. Some phones have both built right in. Since this thread is full of people with insider information and mind readers, care to share why Apple would have a huge problem throwing a CDMA chip in an iPhone but RIM, Palm, HTC, Nokia, Motorola, and countless other manufacturers have had no problems at all doing that. I'm curious.

-Verizon 3G is NOT AT&T's EDGE. AT&T has potential to go faster than Verizon's 3G and does in many cases, but Verizon's 3G is much faster than AT&T's EDGE. (I didn't see that claim made in this thread, but I've seen it in this forum).

BTW I'm no Verizon fanboy. Right now the Droid works best for me and I've only been a Verizon customer for about four months but I must say I'm very impressed compared to my AT&T days with the iPhone. Once my contract is up in 8 months I may stay Verizon or I may switch to Sprint if they have a good device out. I don't see myself going back to AT&T's poor service in my area anytime soon.

 

[blancoBronco]

Actaully with the Multi Tasking i Could see this as a work around for Verizons Lack of being able to talk and using 3G.

plenty of phones on Verizon already are capable of multitasking. how would it be a work around for talking and surfing?

 

[Hmac]

The Droid does a good job and I like its capabilities, there is no need to trash it.

I don't trash it. I pay it the compliment of calling it a danger to the iPhone's quest for World Domination. The Droid is the reason Apple has to now address all four US carriers. Not so much for it's features or design (I still think the iPhone is overall superior) but mostly because Android is a good MOS (first real competitor the Mac mobile OS has had) and because Google has the money and the will to make it better and to provide real competition to Apple's self-proclamation as the mobile device leader.

Who in the world doesn't think for a minute that Google engineers haven't had iPads on their workbenches for weeks? How long before the Google competitor to the iPad is announced?

Apple can't sit back and rest on their iPads (and they won't) - the iPad was just the second battle in the Mobile Computing wars. Apple is ahead on points, but Google ain't gonna quit. (Looks like Adobe could end up as "collateral damage").

 

[jkozlow3]

Who in the world doesn't think for a minute that Google engineers haven't had iPads on their workbenches for weeks?

And how would a competitor of Apple accomplish this feat exactly?

 

[Hmac]

And how would a competitor of Apple accomplish this feat exactly?

Lot's of ways, including Apple just giving them some, but for the sake of my actual point, I'll just retract that and say "Who in the world doesn't think that Google engineers haven't had iPads on their workbenches since April 3rd?"

 

[jkozlow3]

Lot's of ways, including Apple just giving them some, but for the sake of my actual point, I'll just retract that and say "Who in the world doesn't think that Google engineers haven't had iPads on their workbenches since April 3rd?"

Haha...fair enough.

 

[Nermal]

GSM carriers or CDMA carriers?

GSM/WCDMA. The post you quoted was in reference to the new APIs, not CDMA2000 support.

 

[cjmillsnun]

So Samsung, Motorola, Blackberry, HTC, LG and all the other manufacturers who make CDMA model phones specifically for Verizon are losing money then?? All of these manufacturers make phones for Verizon's network that are popular for a year or two at most before being replaced by something newer and better. I'm pretty sure they'd stop making phones if they couldn't turn a profit.

This is a POOR argument for why the iPhone won't come to Verizon and it gets thrown around a LOT on this forum.

They make far more models of phones and sell a much larger number of phones by volume. They therefore would get better economies of scale.

 

[cjmillsnun]

You don't get out much do you? I like how you said "industrial". Anyone in an "industry" is using a Blackberry more than likely.

That's in the US.

Outside of the US, Symbian is by far the dominant smartphone OS and Nokia the dominant smartphone. RIM is number 2 to symbian, then iPhone OS, Android and WinMo.

 

[kdarling]

Consumer market is iPhone dominated.

Not in most of the world. And not in the USA.

There are seven million WinMo users in the USA against eleven million iPhone users and eighteen million Blackberry users (the majority of whom are now normal consumers).

I haven't known anyone with a Windows Mobile phone for over a year.

Believe me, they've changed enormously for the better in the past half year. Even I was surprised.

Most smartphone followers are also quite aware of the good press that Windows Phone 7 has gotten. Not to mention the current HTC HD2.

No one who keeps up with current press coverage would say that Microsoft is "irrelevant" in the mobile world.

 

[Applejuiced]

Not in most of the world. And not in the USA.

There are seven million WinMo users in the USA against eleven million iPhone users and eighteen million Blackberry users (the majority of whom are now normal consumers).

Appple's Iphone dominates the US market and they been making cellphones for how long now? 3 years?
What about RIM and WinMo? How long they been into it?
Decades....

 

[Nermal]

That's in the US.

Outside of the US, Symbian is by far the dominant smartphone OS and Nokia the dominant smartphone. RIM is number 2 to symbian, then iPhone OS, Android and WinMo.

This graph is interesting, although I'm aware that it's not without its flaws.

 

[AbSoluTc]

Not in most of the world. And not in the USA.

There are seven million WinMo users in the USA against eleven million iPhone users and eighteen million Blackberry users (the majority of whom are now normal consumers).



Believe me, they've changed enormously for the better in the past half year. Even I was surprised.

Most smartphone followers are also quite aware of the good press that Windows Phone 7 has gotten. Not to mention the current HTC HD2.

No one who keeps up with current press coverage would say that Microsoft is "irrelevant" in the mobile world.

Oh man. I would LOVE to meet the 7 million people who are using the hunk of junk winmo 6.5 right now. No way in the USA there are 7 million ACTIVE wino phones. Were talking ACTIVE phones. Not PDA's. Lol Winmo died like 3 years ago, maybe sooner than that. It was clunky and terrible to say the least.

It's ok. We all know you're an MS pusher

When people think of mobile phones, the first thing that pops into their heads - iPhone. Period. Second might be the Motorola Razr. Who on earth says winmo?? Lol

Lastly, smartphone followers are just that. A small, maybe 5% market share if that. Joe Six pack is just happy to get a phone on a plan. Let alone data plan, iPhone, android or anything else. He just wants to make calls and txt. The market after that - is iPhone dominated. Period.

 

[djrobsd]

Verizon has 90 million customers. If just 5% of them got an Iphone (I think the number would be more like 10-15%) then Apple would sell an additional 4-5 million iPhones, possibly even more with AT&T defectors going to Verizon. To me, that makes financial sense for Apple to do it.

 

[troop231]

Verizon has 90 million customers. If just 5% of them got an Iphone (I think the number would be more like 10-15%) then Apple would sell an additional 4-5 million iPhones, possibly even more with AT&T defectors going to Verizon. To me, that makes financial sense for Apple to do it.

Agreed strongly, for any engineering involved to put a CDMA chip in it, itwould be offset greatly by the buyers.

 

[Hmac]

No one who keeps up with current press coverage would say that Microsoft is "irrelevant" in the mobile world.

LOL. OK, I'll backpedal on that and characterize them as "pretty much" irrelevant. Especially to the future. Unless I buy a Ford.

 

[jkozlow3]

Verizon has 90 million customers. If just 5% of them got an Iphone (I think the number would be more like 10-15%) then Apple would sell an additional 4-5 million iPhones, possibly even more with AT&T defectors going to Verizon. To me, that makes financial sense for Apple to do it.

Agreed strongly, for any engineering involved to put a CDMA chip in it, itwould be offset greatly by the buyers.

Again, even if they did this at a loss (not likely), I think Apple sees a Verizon phone as a necessity at gaining market share at a critical stage in the game. Don't think for a second that they don't want the iPhone to be every bit of a household item as an iPod and they need to close the deal this year before Android-based phones make any more headway IMO.

For the same reason that no one will probably ever displace Microsoft/Windows (despite Apple having a superior OS), eBay, Google or Amazon as the leaders at what they do at this stage in the game, it's important for Apple to win as much market share as they can and as quickly as possible.

Just my $.02

 

[kdarling]

Oh man. I would LOVE to meet the 7 million people who are using the hunk of junk winmo 6.5 right now. No way in the USA there are 7 million ACTIVE wino phones. Were talking ACTIVE phones. Not PDA's.

Comscore mobile share in the USA

Lol Winmo died like 3 years ago, maybe sooner than that. It was clunky and terrible to say the least.

I totally agree that WinMo was clunky even a year ago. However, the latest is pretty decent.

It's ok. We all know you're an MS pusher

Sigh. Typical attempt to bash by someone with no valid or fact based arguments.

LOL. OK, I'll backpedal on that and characterize them as "pretty much" irrelevant. Especially to the future. Unless I buy a Ford.

lol How about we characterize them as "not a market leader". That seems to fit them pretty well.

 

[xcrunner]

Believe me, they've changed enormously for the better in the past half year. Even I was surprised.

Most smartphone followers are also quite aware of the good press that Windows Phone 7 has gotten. Not to mention the current HTC HD2.

Oh man you're a riot. Even Paul Thurrott admits WinMob is crap. Please show me *any* growth pattern in Windows Mobile in the past year. Go ahead, I'll wait.

From your own source:

Microsoft lost 4% smartphone marketshare in the quarter

lolz

 

[marksman]

Wow, it's nice to see so many Apple insiders come post here. I wish I could read the mind of Steve Jobs like so many people in here can. I wish I were a master of telecom engineering and knew the ins and outs like so many of you can.

Here are some facts:

-If Apple stays with AT&T, then they are content with about the current share of customers. Most everyone who wanted the iPhone bad enough to switch to AT&T has already done so. They'll sell a lot of 4th gen devices, most of that to current owners of 3G/3GS so their number of sales will be impressive but their market share will stay still.

-CDMA is dying just like GSM is. LTE is not backwards compatible with GSM. Both AT&T and Verizon will require a complete network overhaul, and both will have the old (GSM/CDMA) systems running with the new (LTE) system for a while before the old ones are shut down. I expect at least another 10 years.

-Every other carrier is able to make phones with CDMA chips and phones with GSM chips. Some phones have both built right in. Since this thread is full of people with insider information and mind readers, care to share why Apple would have a huge problem throwing a CDMA chip in an iPhone but RIM, Palm, HTC, Nokia, Motorola, and countless other manufacturers have had no problems at all doing that. I'm curious.

-Verizon 3G is NOT AT&T's EDGE. AT&T has potential to go faster than Verizon's 3G and does in many cases, but Verizon's 3G is much faster than AT&T's EDGE. (I didn't see that claim made in this thread, but I've seen it in this forum).

BTW I'm no Verizon fanboy. Right now the Droid works best for me and I've only been a Verizon customer for about four months but I must say I'm very impressed compared to my AT&T days with the iPhone. Once my contract is up in 8 months I may stay Verizon or I may switch to Sprint if they have a good device out. I don't see myself going back to AT&T's poor service in my area anytime soon.

Don't get mad at us because Verizon sucks at negotiating business deals.

Watch them ignore it yet another year

It is weird. When has apple ever been the company that tries to market to everyone. Limited access and status has always been part of their mystique. They make monster profits now. There are all kinds of scales to consider when growing their phone business from their own infrastructure, including support and the rest. Apple has never tried to be wall-mart or every wanted everyone to have an iPhone on their terms. They would be happy if everyone bought an iPhone on Apple's terms.

Ultimately Verizon will get an iPhone. As I said earlier, won't likely be this year. I suspect Steve Jobs thinks the management of Verizon is fairly incompetent, and probably doesn't trust them. He has given them a couple of cracks at doing business with Apple and it seems like Verizon has always fallen far short. It is likely Verizon is too stupid to match the terms AT&T offers Apple, so it will likely still be some time. Apple holds the cards in this, but Verizon is stuck in their own mindset of pushing the handset makers around. I am going to put my money on one of the most succesful companies in the world over the last five years, myself.

 

[Applejuiced]

BTW I'm no Verizon fanboy..

Lol
Tell us another one.....

 

[jav6454]

BTW I'm no Verizon fanboy.

And Lady Gaga has a penis and I'm Queen Elizabeth.

 

[Hmac]

Ultimately Verizon will get an iPhone. As I said earlier, won't likely be this year. I suspect Steve Jobs thinks the management of Verizon is fairly incompetent, and probably doesn't trust them. He has given them a couple of cracks at doing business with Apple and it seems like Verizon has always fallen far short. It is likely Verizon is too stupid to match the terms AT&T offers Apple, so it will likely still be some time. Apple holds the cards in this, but Verizon is stuck in their own mindset of pushing the handset makers around. I am going to put my money on one of the most succesful companies in the world over the last five years, myself.

I agree with all of this, although I think the Verizon iPhone will be out sooner rather than later. Lot's of changes going on in the wireless market right now, not the least of which is the iPad. The ante has been upped for both Apple and Verizon.

 

[jav6454]

I agree with all of this, although I think the Verizon iPhone will be out sooner rather than later. Lot's of changes going on in the wireless market right now, not the least of which is the iPad. The ante has been upped for both Apple and Verizon.

Another Verizon fanboy that lives in lala land, where they wish to see Steve Job's RDF emitting, rainbow crapping unicorn that runs on Kool-Aid unveiling a Verizon iPhone.

Long story short, not happening.