Apple (or any other company) will never ever beat Google

[Fireblade]

If I had a product from a company with about 25% marketshare making 89% of the profit, I would feel REALLY bad...

 

[Oletros]

Yes Schmidt was on the board from 2006-09 but Jobs stated he felt betrayed and that he was going to spend every last cent Apple had to make it right.

This is false

As far as i'm concerned Schmidt and google screwed Apple over to get a foothold in the market.

And you're wrong, but everyone is entitled to be wrong. The problem is when one don't want to acknowledge that

 

[lowendlinux]

No I was clearly talking about hardware and software services. 89 percent profit. Can search it. This is for Q4 2014. Yes Schmidt was on the board from 2006-09 but Jobs stated he felt betrayed and that he was going to spend every last cent Apple had to make it right. Thermonuclear was the term. As far as i'm concerned Schmidt and google screwed Apple over to get a foothold in the market...can't blame them. If I was google I would've done the exact same thing.

You were talking HW the op was talking SW

 

[placidity44]

No you haven't read the thermonuclear war rant? Look up everything i'm saying. He didn't publicly state "I feel betrayed" some source close to him stated that. How did google not absolutely screw apple over? They had a product map before the iPhone release that was absolutely NOTHING like the iPhone not using a multi-touch interface, etc then after the iPhone releases they copy design cues and use the multi-touch interface. Apple had all those patents that android infringed upon. I don't care that they did because companies have been doing that since the beginning of time, but to not think they did is extremely naive. I like android phones especially The Galaxy Note 4, LG G3-G4, Galaxy S 6 edge is gorgeous. There's a place for both platforms and this is in the past. What I posted has tons and tons of articles online depicting it...just have to look. Pretty pointless topic.

 

[Oletros]

No you haven't read the thermonuclear war rant?

The thermonuclear rant has nothing to do with Schmidt and Jobs said that in 2010

then after the iPhone releases they copy design cues and use the multi-touch interface.

Wrong, multitouch was used in 2010

Apple had all those patents that android infringed upon.

Which patents infringed Android?

 

[placidity44]

The HTC Eris was released after the iPhone in 2007. late 2009 is after 2007. Didn't say a day after..a month after. They are in infringement of at least 17 patents. Android is great and different and I really like how far it's come but it is a blatant rip off of the iPhone. Apple had multitouch, pinch to zoom, slide to unlock, etc. You can argue that things like that shouldn't be patentable but they in fact were. I wouldn't have liked if Android were killed off because competition and innovation is great. Apple's taken some Android features over the years. It's something that happens and will happen forever. I was just stating that they blatantly copied the iPhone. Want to make a smartphone? Don't infringe on the multitouch and pinch to zoom patents that apple has...courts ruled that multitouch was too generic a term to patent which is why Android has them now but it's still just an absolute rip off. I love the s6 and s6 edge design and they are different but it's clear where android is getting it's design influence from. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
http://fortune.com/2012/09/27/how-many-apple-and-microsoft-patents-has-android-infringed/

 

[NT1440]

Apple announced a lot of features aimed directly at Google, such as Proactive, new Siri, Maps, as well as multitasking features from Windows and Android.

I'm not going to play the 'who copied who' game, that's not really important. The key thing is that things like Google Now, Google Maps have had many many years of refinement, and there is no possible way Apple's versions can ever be as good.

- GNow is powered not just by Android, but by google.com and Gmail, which is how it can know so much. It builds knowledge based on what you've searched for across multiple devices, not just your phone. The same applies for Cortana which is going to be built into Windows 10, and will use data from bing.

- Google is unquestionably the leader in software and data. Microsoft is also a software company. Apple is primarily a hw company.

- Apple's offerings are tied to iOS and OSX. Apple has no search engine, no email, no other cross platform services which power this.

- Its nice that Apple will try to recreate Street View data, but to be honest they're can only doing this because they lots of extra money. There is no possible way any other company will company will come close to Street View data. Bing has been trying for years and haven't come close. By the time they reach parity, if they ever do, Maps will have advanced that much more.

I think competition is really good for users, but in this case the gap is simply too wide. e.g. no one today can hope to launch a web based email service to compete with GMail.

The right thing to do, to actually benefit users, would've been to integrate with Google services and allow them to be defaults, instead of locking people into Apple platform services.

Uhhhh...Google's ENTIRE income is based off desktop search (mobile brings in scraps).

Unless they can do something about that, there is no "winning" long term for Google.

 

[Oletros]

The HTC Eris was released after the iPhone in 2007. late 2009 is after 2007. Didn't say a day after..a month after. They are in infringement of at least 17 patents. Android is great and different and I really like how far it's come but it is a blatant rip off of the iPhone. Apple had multitouch, pinch to zoom, slide to unlock, etc. You can argue that things like that shouldn't be patentable but they in fact were. I wouldn't have liked if Android were killed off because competition and innovation is great. Apple's taken some Android features over the years. It's something that happens and will happen forever. I was just stating that they blatantly copied the iPhone. Want to make a smartphone? Don't infringe on the multitouch and pinch to zoom patents that apple has...courts ruled that multitouch was too generic a term to patent which is why Android has them now but it's still just an absolute rip off. I love the s6 and s6 edge design and they are different but it's clear where android is getting it's design influence from. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
http://fortune.com/2012/09/27/how-many-apple-and-microsoft-patents-has-android-infringed/

Really, stop reading PEW articles or Florian Mueller articles because then you write the nonsese you write here.

By the way, what patents Android infringed because this list is not a list of Android infringements. And not taking into account that a lot of those cases were dismissed or the patents invalidated.

But you believe that, perfect, is your prerogative, but it won't make them real

And by the way two, multitouch and pinch to zoom were not invented by Apple. And the term multi touch you refer has nothing to do with the implementation, it was an intent of trademark, not the patent for multi touch.

Really, do you know what you talk about or you just repeat the things you read in the most pro Apple sites?

 

[placidity44]

Apple brought multi-touch to the masses and patented it. The lawyers ultimately decided otherwise it was too generic. I personally believe Android copied the iPhone...does it really matter? Apple copied some of android features in iOS 9. They're going to continue to take things from each other and it's the consumers who win. I know exactly what i'm talking about but we aren't going to get anywhere and it was myself who stirred the pot...my apologies. A link or two would be very helpful...maybe there's a piece i'm missing. Point being I shouldn't take a ton of merit on things I read on the internet...I meant no disrespect toward yourself.

 

[Savor]

Google makes apps cross platform so everyone is a winner. Whether they will be beaten or not is irrelevant to me as long as the apps available to me are good.

Yup.

I was thinking about my relatives' broken "50+ Samsung Full HD TV the other day. I don't know the reason for it breaking recently but the damn thing isn't even 5 years old yet. My gf's Panasonic SDTV is 19 years old and still works. My Panasonic DVD player worked for 11 years until the power switch got worse last year. I remember reading an article about the fall of Sony from Kotaru. It is saved in my Pocket app. But while Korean TV's are cheaper, they seem easier to break down sooner. A reliable TV should last a minimum of a DECADE. That Samsung HDTV that cost $1,500+ US dollars couldn't last half that.

Which made me think Google has a huge advantage here. They are hardly in the hardware business. Less issues to worry about. If a hardware fails, point to the Android OEM. If iOS gets weird, blame Apple. If Apple Maps is bad, fire Forstall and blame Apple. If the speaker or dead pixels appear on iPhone, blame Apple. I understand fragmentation and controlling everything across the board but it backfires on your reputation too. Google has multi-platform services that people enjoy. Nobody gets left out and their service don't breakdown like hardware does. It doesn't matter what brand people use because they are always going to use the internet, a domain Google rules in. They own the highways.

 

[Vegastouch]

I remember hearing people say the same thing about Google when it first appeared. People just knew Google would never surpass the likes of Altavista, Yahoo, and the many others that were prominent at that time. Those people were proven wrong.

The safest thing to say is "only time will tell".

Ive never even heard of AltaVista, lol. Yahoo remains just a search engine and email while Google is and does many, many other things.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Yup.

I was thinking about my relatives' broken "50+ Samsung Full HD TV the other day. I don't know the reason for it breaking recently but the damn thing isn't even 5 years old yet. My gf's Panasonic SDTV is 19 years old and still works. My Panasonic DVD player worked for 11 years until the power switch got worse last year. I remember reading an article about the fall of Sony from Kotaru. It is saved in my Pocket app. But while Korean TV's are cheaper, they seem easier to break down sooner. A reliable TV should last a minimum of a DECADE. That Samsung HDTV that cost $1,500+ US dollars couldn't last half that.

To be fair, one of my TVs is a Samsung 50 inch 720P Plasma(model HPT5064) that was released in 2007 and has no signs of quitting. Every brand makes crap and gems.

 

[NT1440]

Ive never even heard of AltaVista, lol. Yahoo remains just a search engine and email while Google is and does many, many other things.

But makes little to nothing off those many, many things.

Desktop search is their only real breadwinner as mobile ads fetch only a fraction of the price of serving a desktop ad. At the same time, they don't have the command over mobile ad serving that they do for the desktop as advertisers are increasingly turning to Facebook and social media for ad impressions.

Google needs to find a revenue source.

 

[Vegastouch]

But makes little to nothing off those many, many things.

Desktop search is their only real breadwinner as mobile ads fetch only a fraction of the price of serving a desktop ad. At the same time, they don't have the command over mobile ad serving that they do for the desktop as advertisers are increasingly turning to Facebook and social media for ad impressions.

Google needs to find a revenue source.

Yes because clearly they are hurting while making little to nothing by having and continue to build campuses all over the silicon valley and other huge facilities all over the country.

 

[ardchoille50]

Ive never even heard of AltaVista, lol. Yahoo remains just a search engine and email while Google is and does many, many other things.

I've been on the web for quite a while (since 1995) and I remember using AltaVista, Yahoo, HotBot, Lycos, Dogpile, and a few others. Good times.. good times.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yup.

I was thinking about my relatives' broken "50+ Samsung Full HD TV the other day. I don't know the reason for it breaking recently but the damn thing isn't even 5 years old yet. My gf's Panasonic SDTV is 19 years old and still works. My Panasonic DVD player worked for 11 years until the power switch got worse last year. I remember reading an article about the fall of Sony from Kotaru. It is saved in my Pocket app. But while Korean TV's are cheaper, they seem easier to break down sooner. A reliable TV should last a minimum of a DECADE. That Samsung HDTV that cost $1,500+ US dollars couldn't last half that.

Which made me think Google has a huge advantage here. They are hardly in the hardware business. Less issues to worry about. If a hardware fails, point to the Android OEM. If iOS gets weird, blame Apple. If Apple Maps is bad, fire Forstall and blame Apple. If the speaker or dead pixels appear on iPhone, blame Apple. I understand fragmentation and controlling everything across the board but it backfires on your reputation too. Google has multi-platform services that people enjoy. Nobody gets left out and their service don't breakdown like hardware does. It doesn't matter what brand people use because they are always going to use the internet, a domain Google rules in. They own the highways.

I think both Google and Apple are working in harmony within the market at present. They both have huge advantages and very different business models to each other. They all have their ups and downs and get rid of people, but have weathered the storm because they have established strong and reliable services.

 

[Danoc]

I have used Android devices in the recent past (Note 3, Xperia Z2), I like Android, I will probably buy another one in the future but I am very satisfied with Apple's software. There are some ways of doing things in iOS that are better. There are some software improvements that Google brought that are heavily criticized. Remember YouTube comments?

 

[Faux Carnival]

Google has data and data is everything in this age.

 

[albertfallickwa]

Who cares if Apple or Google beat each other? Honestly I'm so tired of hearing this.

Let us enjoy the products.

 

[NT1440]

Yes because clearly they are hurting while making little to nothing by having and continue to build campuses all over the silicon valley and other huge facilities all over the country.

Listen, they're still making billions. I never said they were hurting, now. The whole point of my post was to point out that they have a long term issue in terms of business strategy (I'm far from the first person on the planet to point this out). If you read and understood what I meant, great. But from your sarcastic comment it sounds like you didn't get what I was saying, or just being a jerk.

 

[Vegastouch]

Listen, they're still making billions. I never said they were hurting, now. The whole point of my post was to point out that they have a long term issue in terms of business strategy (I'm far from the first person on the planet to point this out). If you read and understood what I meant, great. But from your sarcastic comment it sounds like you didn't get what I was saying, or just being a jerk.

No, when you say they make little to nothing on their many other things they do and then acknowledge they make billions, it seems YOU don't get what you are saying.
They make plenty from those other things regardless of your reasons you stated.

 

[NT1440]

No, when you say they make little to nothing on their many other things they do and then acknowledge they make billions, it seems YOU don't get what you are saying.
They make plenty from those other things regardless of your reasons you stated.

You're completely misunderstanding the business aspect of this. Making money today on a model that has already started to decline (5 quarters now their price per click on ads they serve has fallen) means you need to do *something* to make sure that money keeps coming in.

As a percentage of their profits, the only real money maker is Desktop Search. Everything else is pennies on the dollar comparatively. You can't keep a company this big going at the same level when their bread and butter is disappearing from the market. This is long term business we are discussing, I'm not saying that they are in trouble today, but from a business strategy standpoint they HAVE to find a revenue source that is comparable to the profits they get from Desktop Search.

What other actual money makers do they have currently that can be scaled to do the heavy lifting as Desktop Search continues to fall?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/16/6990579/google-q3-2014-earnings

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/29/technology/google-earnings/

Please don't mistake this as me saying "Google sucks", it's not, it's pointing out that they have a long term revenue stream issue that needs to be resolved. Given that the lion's share of their revenue is from Desktop Search, they are going to have to monetize something close to that level of revenue or the company's earnings are going to decline in a big way.

Do you have any ideas one what they can do to replace Desktop Search?

 

[Robisan]

But makes little to nothing off those many, many things.

Desktop search is their only real breadwinner as mobile ads fetch only a fraction of the price of serving a desktop ad. At the same time, they don't have the command over mobile ad serving that they do for the desktop as advertisers are increasingly turning to Facebook and social media for ad impressions.

Google needs to find a revenue source.

Don't know the breakdown of Google revenue sources but data gathered from mobile adds value to their overall ability to target ads, so mobile does help desktop revenue.

 

[NT1440]

Don't know the breakdown of Google revenue sources but data gathered from mobile adds value to their overall ability to target ads, so mobile does help desktop revenue.

The problem for google is three fold:

1. Mobile ads pull in a fraction per click of what Desktop ads do
2. Mobile advertisers aren't stuck with google, they are flocking to social network ad placements such as Facebook, Google will never have the same dominance on mobile that they did on the Desktop
3. Goldman Sachs just estimated that 75% of Google's mobile search revenue comes from iOS...while it's very clear that Apple is setting up it's future iOS versions to cut out Google (Siri enhancements, Apple Search, etc.)

So yes, mobile is helping Google, but even if they got 100% of mobile ad serve revenues, the cost per click is a fraction of Desktop search. It's like replacing the V8 in a pickup with a 4 cylinder engine. It'll still do *something* but it will never be the same.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/t...or-android-despite-market-dominance.html?_r=0

 

[Oletros]

The problem for google is three fold:

1. Mobile ads pull in a fraction per click of what Desktop ads do
2. Mobile advertisers aren't stuck with google, they are flocking to social network ad placements such as Facebook, Google will never have the same dominance on mobile that they did on the Desktop
3. Goldman Sachs just estimated that 75% of Google's mobile search revenue comes from iOS...while it's very clear that Apple is setting up it's future iOS versions to cut out Google (Siri enhancements, Apple Search, etc.)

So yes, mobile is helping Google, but even if they got 100% of mobile ad serve revenues, the cost per click is a fraction of Desktop search. It's like replacing the V8 in a pickup with a 4 cylinder engine. It'll still do *something* but it will never be the same.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/t...or-android-despite-market-dominance.html?_r=0

I'm still waiting to see that Goldman Sachs report and who they estimated that 75%. If it is like the estimation about Google making 4 times more from iOS it will be funny

That Manjo article is really out of reality, but it is normal coming from him