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As someone else wrote already, none of those are actually the reason Apple did it. I have asked Apple engineers and they don't even seem to know the reason beyond just... courage.

I don’t believe specifically what you posted and it seems like you’re asserting your own opinion, especially given that all the evidence you need is listed directly below.

Apple had its ideations of why they deleted the 3.5 Jack in the first place, which they iterated was antiquated technology and it was for using the space for camera and battery improvements, not to mention a gateway for the AirPods. A Number of Apple executives commented on how it's no longer needed.

http://bgr.com/2016/09/08/iphone-7-headphones-removal-adapter-schiller-explanation/amp/

Right here is your answer:

However, Phil Schiller directly commented on why himself why they deleted it:

"You’ve got to do it at some point,” Schiller added. “Sooner or later the headphone jack is going away. There are just too many reasons aligned against it sticking around any longer. There’s a little bit of pain in every transition, but we can’t let that stop us from making it. If we did, we’d never make any progress at all.”
 
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Sure, if you think we're discussing this to make Apple change their tune.

The discussion does help people realize what they are dealing with, though, hence my response above.

It's amazing that people still think Apple is forcing them on to the best and latest wireless tech, so a discussion on that is not futile. It's also quite amazing that people think wireless is "good for the most part" so that's that.

As for the jack, you're right. It's gone. That's why I currently use my Android phone and my iPhone is only for testing and debugging apps. No sense in threatening to move away when one can just do it. Still, the fact that the iPhone is behind on supporting the latest wireless tech, once again, is quite important to note.
I’m not arguing that Apple have forced better tech on us. I’m just saying that personally have not been effected by the removal of the headphone jack. I always used the included headphones anyway. Sure I had a few pairs of non Apple headphones (beats solo and sennheiser). The beats I despise and never used them although I’ve had them for years. I like the Sennheiser ones but always found the Apple ones more convenient to use.

So to switch to the lightning headphones was not a big deal to me and I could still use them for my iPads.

I’ve got the airpods. Had them for 16 months and prefer them over the Lightning headphones. It’s more comfortable to not have wires and don’t have to worry about cables getting tangled.
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Many more millions don’t care. The people in developing countries can’t afford an iPhone. If millions of people actually complained then maybe phone manufacturers would care, but that isn’t the case at all. Most users don’t give a damn either way and use whatever headphones come with the phone. Assuming that the manufacturers keep providing the headphones which most have actually stopped doing. Guess which two still provide them. Hint it’s the manufacturers who sell the most phones.
The iPhone SE with a headphone jack is there for people in developing countries who can’t afford Bluetooth headphones and the lastest iPhone flagship.
 
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The comparison there isn't to equate the two, but to demonstrate that something simply being old doesn't mean anything by itself. Interesting how something fairly simple like that keeps on getting "overlooked".
But if you read the posts in context they are absolutely equating the two. There are logical arguments that support keeping the headphone jack around however that isn’t one of them. It’s absurd actually. I would argue there are countless examples of old tech being phased out to support innovation and progress across many different fields that don’t rely on absurd comparisons like the wheel or fire (yes the headphone jack was compared to fire in this discussion unbelievably).
 
But if you read the posts in context they are absolutely equating the two. There are logical arguments that support keeping the headphone jack around however that isn’t one of them. It’s absurd actually. I would argue there are countless examples of old tech being phased out to support innovation and progress across many different fields that don’t rely on absurd comparisons like the wheel or fire (yes the headphone jack was compared to fire in this discussion unbelievably).
If Bluetooth is the future and in particular Apple Airpods, (which by all accounts do not fall out even with the most vigorous of activities) why do on-stage performers not use Airpods or other Bluetooth earphones as their IEMs ?
 
If Bluetooth is the future and in particular Apple Airpods, (which by all accounts do not fall out even with the most vigorous of activities) why do on-stage performers not use Airpods or other Bluetooth earphones as their IEMs ?
I’m not sure Bluetooth is the future. I just know the headphone jack isn’t. Besides the argument isn’t wired vs wireless. The end of the headphone jack doesn’t mean the end of all wired headphones.
 
But if you read the posts in context they are absolutely equating the two. There are logical arguments that support keeping the headphone jack around however that isn’t one of them. It’s absurd actually. I would argue there are countless examples of old tech being phased out to support innovation and progress across many different fields that don’t rely on absurd comparisons like the wheel or fire (yes the headphone jack was compared to fire in this discussion unbelievably).
Except that that's not what those posts are doing. Someone can certainly decide to have that superficial take on them, but that's not what's actually there in the context of this discussion.
 
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"You’ve got to do it at some point,” Schiller added. “Sooner or later the headphone jack is going away. There are just too many reasons aligned against it sticking around any longer. There’s a little bit of pain in every transition, but we can’t let that stop us from making it. If we did, we’d never make any progress at all.”

this is one move that apple should have let the competitors do before them. If the headphone jack is the only thing that keeps people from switching or switching back then they will just about jump for anything (headphone jack is not really a big deal-- esp since they gave you an adapter to help you out.) but I whole heartedly agree its going away at some point what better time than now.
 
Adapt and overcome.

They did away with the jack. Get over it. Get a new set of cans that doesn't require the jack or buy a different kind of device that still has the jack. Options are still available.

An ultimatum such as the title to this thread is laughable at best.
 
I have actually had a recent change of heart where the headphone jack is concerned. I own a 6s, and I listen to lots of music (my own collection, not streaming) and radio apps (TuneIn, etc) and podcasts, both at work, in my car and around the house. Except for in the car, the headphone jack is heavily used. I was not happy when Apple removed it on the 7, and have clung to the 6s ever since, not wanting to replace it until I have to.

However, it has occurred to me that the headphone jack is a big source of failure for phones and that failure has hit me twice. My original iPhone was a 5. After a year and a half of similar usage, the headphone jack flat out failed. It just quit working one day. The phone was still under Apple Care and it was replaced free of charge. Six months later I traded to an iPhone 6s when they were released. I have been using that phone for 2 and a half years and counting, and my Apple Care has not run out and the phone is all paid for. It still performs well.

I have noticed in recent months that although I can listen to audio with earbuds ok through the earphone jack, the mic no longer works for phone calls when wired, and the remote switch on the wire no longer controls the volume. The headphone jack gets dirty and it is very hard to clean out, especially when the phone often stays in my pocket. The earbuds don't go in the jack all the way anymore. My wife has an 8+ and I have taken over her lighting port adapter (that she never used). All the problems went away. I now use the 6s as if it is a 7 or 8. I will probably replace the phone in the next several months with an 8 or other new model. I will then buy a wireless charging pad so that I can listen through the lighting port and charge at the same time. I probably won't buy airpods cause I am cheap and don't want to hassle with keeping them charged.
 
"You’ve got to do it at some point,” Schiller added. “Sooner or later the headphone jack is going away. There are just too many reasons aligned against it sticking around any longer. There’s a little bit of pain in every transition, but we can’t let that stop us from making it. If we did, we’d never make any progress at all.”

YET, after ALL that bluster from the man ... the "new" iMac Pro comes with a 3.5 mm headphone jack.
 
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this is one move that apple should have let the competitors do before them. If the headphone jack is the only thing that keeps people from switching or switching back then they will just about jump for anything (headphone jack is not really a big deal-- esp since they gave you an adapter to help you out.) but I whole heartedly agree its going away at some point what better time than now.
It’s not effected apple’s sales and Samsung are not gaining sales by keeping the headphone jack.
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I have actually had a recent change of heart where the headphone jack is concerned. I own a 6s, and I listen to lots of music (my own collection, not streaming) and radio apps (TuneIn, etc) and podcasts, both at work, in my car and around the house. Except for in the car, the headphone jack is heavily used. I was not happy when Apple removed it on the 7, and have clung to the 6s ever since, not wanting to replace it until I have to.

However, it has occurred to me that the headphone jack is a big source of failure for phones and that failure has hit me twice. My original iPhone was a 5. After a year and a half of similar usage, the headphone jack flat out failed. It just quit working one day. The phone was still under Apple Care and it was replaced free of charge. Six months later I traded to an iPhone 6s when they were released. I have been using that phone for 2 and a half years and counting, and my Apple Care has not run out and the phone is all paid for. It still performs well.

I have noticed in recent months that although I can listen to audio with earbuds ok through the earphone jack, the mic no longer works for phone calls when wired, and the remote switch on the wire no longer controls the volume. The headphone jack gets dirty and it is very hard to clean out, especially when the phone often stays in my pocket. The earbuds don't go in the jack all the way anymore. My wife has an 8+ and I have taken over her lighting port adapter (that she never used). All the problems went away. I now use the 6s as if it is a 7 or 8. I will probably replace the phone in the next several months with an 8 or other new model. I will then buy a wireless charging pad so that I can listen through the lighting port and charge at the same time. I probably won't buy airpods cause I am cheap and don't want to hassle with keeping them charged.
I thought Apple care was for 2 years.
 
$9 US (not sure how much in EURO) and you can have a second adapter one for your holiday home and one to leave connected... Surely someone who can afford a holiday home won't have an issue buying a $9 adapter

Lol. Exactly.

I thought I’d really miss the headphone jack, but I haven’t. I’ve got a pair of semi decent Bluetooth headphones for music and use the buds that came with my phone for podcasts and stuff. The adapter hasn’t been taken out of the box. The lack of jack hasn’t affected my life in any way.

Me neither. I thought it was a big deal but actually isn’t at all. Can’t wait to have enough saved up for Airpods.

If this post doesn't get Apple to change I don't know what will!!

Surely they will go back!! Lolz

Well, I don't know about OP, but what I'm really waiting for is the return of the optical drive in the macbook pro.:rolleyes:

Me too!

I can't leave iOS because I value privacy, but I will not buy new phone until there's one with a jack.

1. there is no advantage to not having a headphone jack - only a loss of choice. Don't tell me there's no room - make the phone marginally bigger.

2. it's anti-consumer - they're attempting to shift headphones from an item which could potentially last a life-time to a subscription model ('disposable' bluetooth headphones). It's all about the $$$$, **** the user. Very few cross platform/cross device open source standards exist, and 3.5mm is about the most useful in existence.

3. "why not leave the dongle on the headphones?!? you're attention seeking!!" - You cannot use a single set of headphones, with multiples macs and an iPhone - this workflow is not compatible with leaving the adapter on the headphones.

4. "AirPods solve everything" - I'm glad you like them, I know they're great. I'm glad apple sell them. But give me back my ****ing jack - I don't want to subscribe to my headphones (lithium ion batteries dies after a few years making them a disposable item meaning I have to re-buy/resubscribe to continue my experience).

5. I don't want to charge my headphones, and I don't want my headphones to die.

6. I don't want to use Siri to change the ****ing volume. Inline remote works perfect.

7. Wires. Never. Bothered. Me.

Bluetooth audio can and will co-exist.

But there is no good reason aside from making more $$$ to remove the jack.

No good reason? Sounds corny but they were courageous because wireless is the future. Also waterproofing.

Interesting to hear.
Yes, pushing wireless headphone has little to do with better tech. It’s because producing them could earn more money, in general.

Do you feel the same way about the floppy drive, cd-rom and flash??

@USB28 - Enjoy having your personal data gang raped by Google and Facebook.

Exactly. Cluck that Mr Chicken

I don't think you understand how market forces work.

Imagine if no-one bough the next gen of iPhones because they lacked a feature.

You can bet that feature would be back the gen after. Simple as.
[doublepost=1522179049][/doublepost]

Yes, I'd bet everyone visiting this forum probably knows that.

Do you know that using an adapter is not at simple as leaving it attached to the headphones if you want to use a single pair of headphones with multiple different devices (ALL using the universal 3.5mm jack, except an iPhone with its proprietary port. Perhaps I should leave the dongle hanging from the $1000 phone? That'll look good. And then, when I come to charge, I'll lose it.
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Apologies for being patronising, but I must assume you are quite young. You're suggesting its age makes it inherently bad!??!

Its the pinnacle of analog connectors. It is as close to a perfect design as exists. Shall we scrap the wheel too? Speaker tech is kind of old too - bin the cone!
[doublepost=1522179805][/doublepost]

What advance took place when Apple stopped offering both wired/wireless audio, and started just offering wireless. What advance just occurred here?

The phone was the same form factor even! Or are you talking about the buttonless home-button? We were all crying out for that advance...!

They removed the jack to make more money off you.

No. They continue Steve Jobs’ vision of bring the future into reality. Wireless is clearly the future. Or do you LOVE untangling wires every time you want to use wired earphones?

Yes, if everyone stopped buying iPhone they’ll have no other choice. Do you honestly think this is ever going to happen? iPhone 7/8/X already sold by the millions. The headphone jack lovers will never be able to make even a small dent in sales.

You can complain all you want but please stop thinking the threats are going to make an impact and change Apple’s mind!

Yep. iPhone is doomed. No one will ever buy iphones ever again!

I would say most consumers are not willing to abandon the iPhone just because the deleted 3.5 mm Jack. As others have alluded to, Bluetooth has grown exponentially with wireless headphones, and a 3.5 mm Jack being deleted isn’t necessarily that big of a problem when we have the convenience without wires.

I agree. Except for “deleting” the headphone jack. I’d like to try that. Please show me how to delete a physical object! Would be very handy...

have you ever used wireless headphones playing sports or at the gym? wired headphones are ok for none athletic type listening. me personally my listening is all sports based. wireless is a game changer. especially extremely good sounding wireless earbuds.
in your eyes killing tape players for CD players was just a business decision?

Lolz
 
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Do you feel the same way about the floppy drive, cd-rom and flash??
Floppy drive cannot store a lot of files. Fragile and takes up a large amount of space to store. CD is still widely used despite Apple removing CD drive like a decade ago. Flash, or SSD, are becoming more popular but they are just not cheap enough compared to HDD.
 
I don’t believe specifically what you posted and it seems like you’re asserting your own opinion, especially given that all the evidence you need is listed directly below.

Apple had its ideations of why they deleted the 3.5 Jack in the first place, which they iterated was antiquated technology and it was for using the space for camera and battery improvements, not to mention a gateway for the AirPods. A Number of Apple executives commented on how it's no longer needed.

http://bgr.com/2016/09/08/iphone-7-headphones-removal-adapter-schiller-explanation/amp/

Right here is your answer:

However, Phil Schiller directly commented on why himself why they deleted it:

"You’ve got to do it at some point,” Schiller added. “Sooner or later the headphone jack is going away. There are just too many reasons aligned against it sticking around any longer. There’s a little bit of pain in every transition, but we can’t let that stop us from making it. If we did, we’d never make any progress at all.”

So do you need more evidence?
no aptx HD on Iphone - a big mistake - Apple Community
Any word if the next Iphone will support aptX? : apple - Reddit
What is aptX HD and which devices support it? - Pocket-lint

I can bombard you with links but honestly, it's just one Google search away.

I'm not stating opinions. I'm stating facts. Apple is just NOT keeping up with the latest wireless tech, or at least as far as Bluetooth is concerned. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. Ironically, Android phones that still keep the headphone jack around now support far better Bluetooth standards than any iOS device and they do in fact allow for lossless audio transmission. If you care about quality, then what Apple is doing isn't it.

Also you're basically posting supporting evidence for what I stated as well. Read again carefully what you just posted in that context and it basically boils down to "courage."

"You've got to do it at some point" <- sure, and MacBooks still have the port...
"Sooner or later the headphone jack is going away" <- sure, again, MacBooks still have the port... even the 2017 ones, and most likely the next MacBooks will have it as well
"There are just too many reasons aligned against it sticking around any longer" <- agreed but you guys aren't doing a good job of pushing the latest tech when... you don't even support it with your devices
"There's a little bit of pain in every transition, but we can't let that stop us from making it" <- that sounds like "courage"
"If we did, we'd never make any progress at all" <- ironically, again, they really aren't making any progress

Need I remind you this is the same Phil Schiller who announced the "innovative Mac Pro" that Apple has now almost abandoned?

I’m not arguing that Apple have forced better tech on us. I’m just saying that personally have not been effected by the removal of the headphone jack. I always used the included headphones anyway. Sure I had a few pairs of non Apple headphones (beats solo and sennheiser). The beats I despise and never used them although I’ve had them for years. I like the Sennheiser ones but always found the Apple ones more convenient to use.

So to switch to the lightning headphones was not a big deal to me and I could still use them for my iPads.

I’ve got the airpods. Had them for 16 months and prefer them over the Lightning headphones. It’s more comfortable to not have wires and don’t have to worry about cables getting tangled.

Sure, I can agree that Apple is forcing "convenience" on people. This is at least one good thing that came out of the situation. But statements like... "Apple is leading us ahead into the glorious era of wireless audio technology" or "Apple is now able to do wireless audio at the same level of quality as wired audio" are just absurd when, again, they really aren't even adopting the latest tech in wireless audio.

If the only thing you can say is "convenience" here then it's really a "trade-off" and not an "improvement" as many are led to believe.

And yet, the MacBooks still have this headphone jack along with supporting better Bluetooth tech than iOS devices so this really begs the question of whether or not Apple's move really makes sense even to themselves. I think you can infer the answer.
 
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It’s not effected apple’s sales and Samsung are not gaining sales by keeping the headphone jack.
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I thought Apple care was for 2 years.
Apple Care is for 2 years. My iPhone 5 was 1.5 yrs old when the headphone jack failed and it was covered. My 6s is over 2.5 yrs old and counting, well beyond Apple Care.
 
this is one move that apple should have let the competitors do before them. If the headphone jack is the only thing that keeps people from switching or switching back then they will just about jump for anything (headphone jack is not really a big deal-- esp since they gave you an adapter to help you out.) but I whole heartedly agree its going away at some point what better time than now.

The iPhone is literally the only current Apple computing product that does not have a headphone jack, mind.

MacBooks still have it. iPads still have it. iPods obviously need it.

Again, the iPhone is literally the only Apple computing product that does not have a headphone jack.

Does that tell you how "committed" Apple is to this cause?

"It's going away at some point" <- obviously not now, and obviously it should not have gone away 2 years ago.
 
The iPhone is literally the only current Apple computing product that does not have a headphone jack, mind.

MacBooks still have it. iPads still have it. iPods obviously need it.

Again, the iPhone is literally the only Apple computing product that does not have a headphone jack.

Does that tell you how "committed" Apple is to this cause?

"It's going away at some point" <- obviously not now, and obviously it should not have gone away 2 years ago.
An iPhone is not a computer. It is a smaller device that needed room to put something else in. Alas they like Motorola did first along with HTC and Google decided to move away from a jack. You still no matter how much you want to cry about it can use a wired headphone with all of those devices. iPods have gone the way of the dinosaur. Much more room to use a jack on a bigger device which is not as portable as a phone. If you need a jack that badly there’s always LG and Samsung. Assuming they don’t remove it. Actually LG tried to with little financial success. They went back to the jack and still didn’t have any success. It’s been 2 years, it’s not coming back and your whining about it isn’t going to change it at all. Can’t wait until Apple removes the lightning port also. That’s going to happen and it’s actually a much bigger deal the loss of a redundant port.
 
An iPhone is not a computer. It is a smaller device that needed room to put something else in. Alas they like Motorola did first along with HTC and Google decided to move away from a jack. You still no matter how much you want to cry about it can use a wired headphone with all of those devices. iPods have gone the way of the dinosaur. Much more room to use a jack on a bigger device which is not as portable as a phone. If you need a jack that badly there’s always LG and Samsung. Assuming they don’t remove it. Actually LG tried to with little financial success. They went back to the jack and still didn’t have any success. It’s been 2 years, it’s not coming back and your whining about it isn’t going to change it at all. Can’t wait until Apple removes the lightning port also. That’s going to happen and it’s actually a much bigger deal the loss of a redundant port.

You still haven't addressed the fact that iPads and MacBooks still have that port.

And I'm not whining about it. Just pointing out the fact that Apple is not as committed to this move as some may think. They're only doing it because they want to force you to buy their wireless products. That's all.

Will we discuss the loss of the lightning port as well? Yes, of course. But that's not solely because we want it to come back now.

As I wrote a while ago, I just moved on to another phone altogether that still has a headphone jack and is not Samsung or LG. There are other companies as well. This is how I see the bigger picture, and that's not to pull the whole Android vs iOS debate into this discussion but just to say... other companies are able to achieve: bigger battery, more screen space, better software support (do I need to point to threads in this community denouncing iOS 11 for how bad it is?) and even thinner profile but still keep the port. There is no technical reason (like space saving, really?) for not keeping it around.

And how is the port redundant, pray tell? Unless you are now going to tell me the majority of phone users don't use the port at all. Well, I still do for one. I do have Bluetooth headphones that I can use but when they run out of battery (and they do so very fast, especially the AirPods), what's the alternative? Plug in the lightning adapter and not be able to charge? Or use one of those franken adapters? Or just quit listening to music altogether?

And that's not to mention the quality is just very bad. I don't mind the price of the device but if I'm paying that much, I do expect it to be able to deliver on the experience.

For a device touted to also have music listening capabilities like the iPhone, it's quickly becoming one that hinders it.
 
You still haven't addressed the fact that iPads and MacBooks still have that port.

And I'm not whining about it. Just pointing out the fact that Apple is not as committed to this move as some may think. They're only doing it because they want to force you to buy their wireless products. That's all.

Will we discuss the loss of the lightning port as well? Yes, of course. But that's not solely because we want it to come back now.

As I wrote a while ago, I just moved on to another phone altogether that still has a headphone jack and is not Samsung or LG. There are other companies as well. This is how I see the bigger picture, and that's not to pull the whole Android vs iOS debate into this discussion but just to say... other companies are able to achieve: bigger battery, more screen space, better software support (do I need to point to threads in this community denouncing iOS 11 for how bad it is?) and even thinner profile but still keep the port. There is no technical reason (like space saving, really?) for not keeping it around.

And how is the port redundant, pray tell? Unless you are now going to tell me the majority of phone users don't use the port at all. Well, I still do for one. I do have Bluetooth headphones that I can use but when they run out of battery (and they do so very fast, especially the AirPods), what's the alternative? Plug in the lightning adapter and not be able to charge? Or use one of those franken adapters? Or just quit listening to music altogether?

And that's not to mention the quality is just very bad. I don't mind the price of the device but if I'm paying that much, I do expect it to be able to deliver on the experience.

For a device touted to also have music listening capabilities like the iPhone, it's quickly becoming one that hinders it.
Apple hasn’t updated the iPods in years. They don’t really give a crap about it. Nobody walks around or does exercise with a laptop. A port that provides half the features of a port on the same device is redundant. I have never needed to listen to any headphone and need to charge the device at the same time ever. That’s actually a very limited use case and no manufacturers make big money by small actual uses. The quality of all sound on any mobile device is not as good due to the actual compression of said music files. Which sucks big time compared to any other storage of music. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean the majority agrees with you. Guess what for the most part they don’t give a crap about it and nothing you say nor matter how many times you say will change anything. My Bluetooth headphones last for 40 hours and have a wired cable that allows them to be used on the phone as a normal pair of headphones. Nobody is forcing the use of Bluetooth headphones. It’s why Apple included an adapter with the phone and now guess what they have wireless charging. Gee wonder what that provides.
 
Apple hasn’t updated the iPods in years. They don’t really give a crap about it.

Cool. iPads, though?

Nobody walks around or does exercise with a laptop.

Okay. When you sit at a desk and you want to listen to music, will you plug your headphone into the laptop or the phone?

And this is a limited use case.

A port that provides half the features of a port on the same device is redundant.

So you're saying HDMI, SD card slot, DisplayPort, etc... are all redundant in the face of USB-C? Would you like to take that up to the MacBooks forums?

I have never needed to listen to any headphone and need to charge the device at the same time ever.

Cool. Doesn't mean other folks don't have to do it.

That’s actually a very limited use case and no manufacturers make big money by small actual uses.

You just mentioned a limited use case up above ("exercise with a laptop") so are you just trying to fit things into your narrative now?

The quality of all sound on any mobile device is not as good due to the actual compression of said music files. Which sucks big time compared to any other storage of music.

This is factually wrong. You can have WAVE files pushed to the phone and you can also have lossless compression in the form of ALAC, which is not the same as lossy compression types like AAC or MP3. This actually has been around for as long as the iPod has been around.

This statement essentially tells me you don't know squat about audio quality then...

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean the majority agrees with you.

The same applies to you, good sir.

Guess what for the most part they don’t give a crap about it and nothing you say nor matter how many times you say will change anything.

Again, I never stated that I wanted to change things. I simply wanted to point out the bad assumptions people are making. Just like the ones you are making about audio compression here.

It's quite obvious that not a lot of people, even here, know the implications of what Apple has done.

My Bluetooth headphones last for 40 hours and have a wired cable that allows them to be used on the phone as a normal pair of headphones. Nobody is forcing the use of Bluetooth headphones. It’s why Apple included an adapter with the phone and now guess what they have wireless charging. Gee wonder what that provides.

Eh, sure, Apple is not forcing you to use Bluetooth headphones. In that case, what technical reason, pray tell, was there for them to remove the port in the first place, if not to entice you into using wireless headphones?

And wireless charging, sure. Will you tell me it's going to be as good as wired charging? Oh wait...
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...takes-the-slow-road-to-wireless-charging.html
 
Cool. iPads, though?



Okay. When you sit at a desk and you want to listen to music, will you plug your headphone into the laptop or the phone?

And this is a limited use case.



So you're saying HDMI, SD card slot, DisplayPort, etc... are all redundant in the face of USB-C? Would you like to take that up to the MacBooks forums?



Cool. Doesn't mean other folks don't have to do it.



You just mentioned a limited use case up above ("exercise with a laptop") so are you just trying to fit things into your narrative now?



This is factually wrong. You can have WAVE files pushed to the phone and you can also have lossless compression in the form of ALAC, which is not the same as lossy compression types like AAC or MP3. This actually has been around for as long as the iPod has been around.

This statement essentially tells me you don't know squat about audio quality then...



The same applies to you, good sir.



Again, I never stated that I wanted to change things. I simply wanted to point out the bad assumptions people are making. Just like the ones you are making about audio compression here.

It's quite obvious that not a lot of people, even here, know the implications of what Apple has done.



Eh, sure, Apple is not forcing you to use Bluetooth headphones. In that case, what technical reason, pray tell, was there for them to remove the port in the first place, if not to entice you into using wireless headphones?

And wireless charging, sure. Will you tell me it's going to be as good as wired charging? Oh wait...
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...takes-the-slow-road-to-wireless-charging.html
How many phones use HDMI ports or Display ports anymore? The answer is zero. Companies still use SD-Cards. They must like paying Microsoft money to use that feature. There’s multiple ways to listen to music and charge a phone. I don’t need to have my phone plugged in for entire days to use it. Maybe get one with a better battery if your constantly needing to plug it in. Most good headphones have their own DAC inside of them. Most people use AAC or MP3 the others small actual use case. There’s a huge size difference. Unless you have lots of storage, you need to use a compressed format. The iPhone is not a laptop. Quit comparing it with one. A laptop has much more room for multiple ports. Alas a phone doesn’t. iPads also have more room on it. Don’t see anybody walking around streets listening to music on them or working out. Apple was not the first manufacturer to remove the port. See Motorola, Lg, and HTC, yet Apple gets all of the blame. Even Google doesn’t use any other port but a type C. If you want hifi sound a phone isn’t your best bet. I loved where you said using a smaller battery just for to use a jack. Most people consider battery life a much more important thing then a jack. Needing to have a phone constantly charging is a limited use case. My phone lasts a long time and Bluetooth doesn’t drain as much as it used to. If Apple wanted to force users to use Bluetooth headphones why do they provide you with an adapter and wired headphones.
 
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How many phones use HDMI ports or Display ports anymore? The answer is zero.

You do realize even Apple provides a Lightning -> HDMI adapter, right?

Companies still use SD-Cards. They must like paying Microsoft money to use that feature.

MacBook Air still has a port for that. And Apple provides Lightning -> SD card reader as well.

There’s multiple ways to listen to music and charge a phone.

Oh? Pray tell. Count how many ways you can do it with the new iPhone and how many ways you can do with iPhone 6S and below. Do you still see "multiple"?

I don’t need to have my phone plugged in for entire days to use it. Maybe get one with a better battery if your constantly needing to plug it in.

I don't need to constantly plug my phone in to use it but if it's low on battery and I really want to use it with my headphone out of battery, I have the option to. That's the point.

Most good headphones have their own DAC inside of them.

Eh... no. Good/great headphones are passive ones, just like good/great speakers are passive. You obviously haven't done your research.

ALL Bluetooth headphones have a DAC, some kind of amplifier and a receiver built-in because they are detached from the main source device. Period. It's not just "most" but "all."

Granted, it's not true that anything with its own DAC is "good" but it's true that anything that's wireless needs its own DAC. And that's just a part of the problem.

Most people use AAC or MP3 the others small actual use case. There’s a huge size difference.

Eh... no, there isn't. At most, 100MB versus 300-400MB. Lossless compression is still a bit better than a CD, which is all WAV. Unless your sampling rate is higher but that's completely irrelevant because the iPhone can only decode up to a maximum 48KHz 24-bit. Can't handle anything higher than that. It's a hard limit in the software. Which also means that the largest an album can ever be is just about as big as a single CD.

Unless you have lots of storage, you need to use a compressed format.

Of course, that's what lossless is for. ALAC is lossless, y' know. Actually, go read up on it and then continue this discussion after you have gained a better understanding of it. I think you have some very gross misconceptions here.

The iPhone is not a laptop. Quit comparing it with one.

I'm not. I'm stating the facts: the iPhone is the only Apple device that does not have a headphone port.

A laptop has much more room for multiple ports. Alas a phone doesn’t. iPads also have more room on it.

Cool. Agreed.

Don’t see anybody walking around streets listening to music on them or working out.

Again, limited use case. But incidentally, I have seen people listening to music on iPad and laptop out and about. Just gotta look hard enough while you are out. This is a very regular occurrence when you take public transportation in LA or SF.

Apple was not the first manufacturer to remove the port. See Motorola, Lg, and HTC, yet Apple gets all of the blame. Even Google doesn’t use any other port but a type C.

Sure. But at least those manufacturers have better Bluetooth standard support than Apple so their omission is justified in some sense.

See, most Android phones support AptX and AptX HD, which is a Bluetooth codec that allows transmission of up to 320kbps data... either AAC or MP3. In essence, you don't have to "double compress" data to transmit it in that case, which results in close to the same performance you'd get with a wired pair of headphones. So in that case, one can factually claim that with a headphone and device pairing that supports AptX and AptX HD, you're getting close to exactly the same experience as wired headphone listening to the same AAC or MP3 files.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

But you know what? Apple doesn't support AptX with iOS. They only support it in Mac OS.

And that's not to mention Bluetooth has gone beyond that. Thanks to Sony, Bluetooth now has LDAC, which can transmit very close to lossless data, which basically means that we get 80-90% the data purity of lossless and that means you can potentially get 80-90% the quality of wired setups now with device pairings that support LDAC. Android 8.0 and above supports LDAC so any device that can upgrade to Android 8.0 potentially supports it.

Apple? Not even close to AptX HD. You are double-compressing your audio files while using Bluetooth with iOS devices.

So other manufacturers have an excuse to omit the port. Apple doesn't.

If you want hifi sound a phone isn’t your best bet.

Beg to differ. LG V20/V30? Quad-DAC.

I loved where you said using a smaller battery just for to use a jack. Most people consider battery life a much more important thing then a jack.

And Apple doesn't try to throttle your performance due to battery capacity constraint? Oh wait...

Expecting a smaller battery capacity and reducing the performance of the processor is not new to Apple.

Needing to have a phone constantly charging is a limited use case.

It is. But being able to use a phone while it's charging is not.

"Wanting to use a phone while it's charging" is not the same thing as "needing to have a phone constantly charging."

My phone lasts a long time and Bluetooth doesn’t drain as much as it used to.

Cool. But again, if I want to use my phone while it's charging, I can.

Guess what? When wireless charging is the only form of charging left, that's going to be next to impossible unless you want to press your ears against the phone on the charging pad just to make or take a call. So... innovation much?

If Apple wanted to force users to use Bluetooth headphones why do they provide you with an adapter and wired headphones.

Better yet, why not keep the jack, like they do on literally everything else they're making, and then just include wired headphones?
 
You do realize even Apple provides a Lightning -> HDMI adapter, right?



MacBook Air still has a port for that. And Apple provides Lightning -> SD card reader as well.



Oh? Pray tell. Count how many ways you can do it with the new iPhone and how many ways you can do with iPhone 6S and below. Do you still see "multiple"?



I don't need to constantly plug my phone in to use it but if it's low on battery and I really want to use it with my headphone out of battery, I have the option to. That's the point.



Eh... no. Good/great headphones are passive ones, just like good/great speakers are passive. You obviously haven't done your research.

ALL Bluetooth headphones have a DAC, some kind of amplifier and a receiver built-in because they are detached from the main source device. Period. It's not just "most" but "all."

Granted, it's not true that anything with its own DAC is "good" but it's true that anything that's wireless needs its own DAC. And that's just a part of the problem.



Eh... no, there isn't. At most, 100MB versus 300-400MB. Lossless compression is still a bit better than a CD, which is all WAV. Unless your sampling rate is higher but that's completely irrelevant because the iPhone can only decode up to a maximum 48KHz 24-bit. Can't handle anything higher than that. It's a hard limit in the software. Which also means that the largest an album can ever be is just about as big as a single CD.



Of course, that's what lossless is for. ALAC is lossless, y' know. Actually, go read up on it and then continue this discussion after you have gained a better understanding of it. I think you have some very gross misconceptions here.



I'm not. I'm stating the facts: the iPhone is the only Apple device that does not have a headphone port.



Cool. Agreed.



Again, limited use case. But incidentally, I have seen people listening to music on iPad and laptop out and about. Just gotta look hard enough while you are out. This is a very regular occurrence when you take public transportation in LA or SF.



Sure. But at least those manufacturers have better Bluetooth standard support than Apple so their omission is justified in some sense.

See, most Android phones support AptX and AptX HD, which is a Bluetooth codec that allows transmission of up to 320kbps data... either AAC or MP3. In essence, you don't have to "double compress" data to transmit it in that case, which results in close to the same performance you'd get with a wired pair of headphones. So in that case, one can factually claim that with a headphone and device pairing that supports AptX and AptX HD, you're getting close to exactly the same experience as wired headphone listening to the same AAC or MP3 files.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

But you know what? Apple doesn't support AptX with iOS. They only support it in Mac OS.

And that's not to mention Bluetooth has gone beyond that. Thanks to Sony, Bluetooth now has LDAC, which can transmit very close to lossless data, which basically means that we get 80-90% the data purity of lossless and that means you can potentially get 80-90% the quality of wired setups now with device pairings that support LDAC. Android 8.0 and above supports LDAC so any device that can upgrade to Android 8.0 potentially supports it.

Apple? Not even close to AptX HD. You are double-compressing your audio files while using Bluetooth with iOS devices.

So other manufacturers have an excuse to omit the port. Apple doesn't.



Beg to differ. LG V20/V30? Quad-DAC.



And Apple doesn't try to throttle your performance due to battery capacity constraint? Oh wait...

Expecting a smaller battery capacity and reducing the performance of the processor is not new to Apple.



It is. But being able to use a phone while it's charging is not.

"Wanting to use a phone while it's charging" is not the same thing as "needing to have a phone constantly charging."



Cool. But again, if I want to use my phone while it's charging, I can.

Guess what? When wireless charging is the only form of charging left, that's going to be next to impossible unless you want to press your ears against the phone on the charging pad just to make or take a call. So... innovation much?



Better yet, why not keep the jack, like they do on literally everything else they're making, and then just include wired headphones?
Guess how pooular those LG phones were. Give you a hint not very. There are adapters for sad-cards for iPhones too. But i thought you hate adapters. I can use listen to music through headphones while charging. Again adapters and wireless pads are in for a reason. They needed the extra space for haptic and a bigger battery. Why did LG remove he jack for the G5, HTC, Motorola and Google? Sony and Samsung need it to upsell their wired headphones. Having a battery that overly drains and shuts the power off for no reason is better than actually slowing it down. You do know there’s an actual shelf life for the battery. The battery performance had nothing to do with the size of the battery. The iPhone is also the only Apple device that has an actual room issue. This is 2 years too late. Anyway. Enjoy your phone and I’ll enjoy mine. Don’t expect Apple to change anything or enough people that actually give as much as you do about it.
 
Apple hasn’t updated the iPods in years. They don’t really give a crap about it. Nobody walks around or does exercise with a laptop.

However, plenty of performers are active on stage and strangely none of them use wireless in ear monitors. I wonder why that is? Why Don't they avail themselves of wireless IEMs?
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. Most people use AAC or MP3 the others small actual use case. There’s a huge size difference. Unless you have lots of storage, you need to use a compressed format.

Not users of Android phones that can utilise storage expansion with microSD cards :)

Edit: You do understand that FLAC is compressed? :)
[doublepost=1526247856][/doublepost]
Most good headphones have their own DAC inside of them.
Why for instance does a company such as Grado who have a strong reputation for manufacturing high quality headphones not make Bluetooth headphones. Perhaps they consider their reputation more valuable than profit they could make from pandering to fashion victims.
 
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