Apple Radeon 5770/5870 in pre-2010 Mac Pro's: What We Know So Far

[Transporteur]

Laptops suffer far worse from overheating, the GF's son has a Macbook Pro from 2007 with a GT8600M GPU, this regularly fried itself to over 85ºc and would hang the whole laptop. After the logicboard failed in 2009 (presumably due to the frying) Apple replaced it under warranty (£700 job for free!).

I've had the same book and system crashes due to overheating is definitely not normal. My book ran for days on full throttle without any trouble whatsoever.

The logicboard failure was in fact a failing GPU, but again, that had nothing to do with overheating, rather than poorly soldered GPU on it's PCB. Rapid temperature drops caused the solder joint to break, which eventually broke the GPU and since it is soldered to the logic board, Apple had to replace the whole board.
My 8600 failed on a regular working day, so no GPU intensive work. I closed the lid to take the book with me, opened it five minutes later and it failed.

 

[gpzjock]

You closed the lid and it fried. Hmmm....

MBP draw air thru the keyboard if you leave them running with the lid down you may have restricted the cooling a great deal. Does yours auto sleep when you close it? The solder issue may have had this final heat up and cooldown event cause it to fail without any intensive task to prompt it, just a restriction of airflow.
Macbooks overheating has been a big problem, don't believe it? Check this forum: http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-notebooks/194862-official-my-macbook-air-pro-overheating-what-do-i-do-guide.html

This Apple thread discusses another problem with the GT8600M: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377 but didn't apply to the dead logicboard according to the guy who fixed it in Apple's Bluewater store. I'm not saying defective solder wasn't the problem, I can't discount it, not being the guy who fixed it, but I can't separate the overheating issue from the eventual failure of the board as they seem to have been more than coincidental.

The solder breaks due to "rapid temperature drops" so in effect if the GPU didn't overheat then shutdown and drop in temperature rapidly the solder wouldn't break. Which part of this isn't a problem related to overheating?
Ultimately if the parts didn't heat up so much that they locked up the machine and caused it to reduce temp. rapidly the attached solder would probably cope "defective" or not.

 

[Transporteur]

If you don't mess with third party tools and don't have an external display connected, all books will automatically sleep when you close the lid. So yes, mine fell asleep as well.

Standard operation temperatures (50 to 60°C) for the GPU and the rapid drop when you shut down the computer were enough to brake the joints. It didn't really require much temperature, especially considering that GPU's can operate perfectly fine above 100°C.
I can see your point, but I don't think that overheating was the real cause for the problem.

 

[lloyd709]

You have almost the same system that I have... it would great if you could run some of the benchmarks listed here to verifiy how much the CPU is bounding Barefeats' benchmarks

Earlier on in this thread I reported my results of testing a 5770 v 5870 in my 1.1 mac pro (upgraded though to 2 quad core 2.66 processors). My conclusions were very similar to barefeats - the 5870 is only marginally better than than the the 5770. I came to the conclusion that the limiting factor was the CPU speed.

 

[Caesar_091]

Earlier on in this thread I reported my results of testing a 5770 v 5870 in my 1.1 mac pro (upgraded though to 2 quad core 2.66 processors). My conclusions were very similar to barefeats - the 5870 is only marginally better than than the the 5770. I came to the conclusion that the limiting factor was the CPU speed.

There are a lot of 2,66 (quad or octo) reports out there but still no benchmarks with 3GHz. I'm still curious if 3GHz CPUs* will justify the extra $ for the 5870 instead of the 5770 on a 2006 MacPro

* sice for gaming more GHz are more useful than the total number of cores

 

[lloyd709]

There are a lot of 2,66 (quad or octo) reports out there but still no benchmarks with 3GHz. I'm still curious if 3GHz CPUs* will justify the extra $ for the 5870 instead of the 5770 on a 2006 MacPro

* sice for gaming more GHz are more useful than the total number of cores

Why don't you buy one from Apple and then send it back if you don't feel it justify's the cost. That's what I did and I don't feel bad about it because Apple don't even say it works with a 1,1 mac pro when it does. If you don't have a 5770 either to compare buy one as well - as I did to see if worked in Cross Fire with my existing 5770 (which it did but didn't give any performance increase).

Apple have a no quibble 2 week returns policy (I once needed to send my Mac Pro back to Apple and asked them what I should do in the meantime without a computer and the shop assistant actually told to just order an new one and send it back after 2 weeks)! They make enough money!!

I would be interested to see the results (academically) of the two cards compared on a 3 Ghz 1,1 Mac Pro as it would give a better indication if the bottleneck is the processor speed or the PCIe bandwidth.

 

[Caesar_091]

I would be interested to see the results (academically) of the two cards compared on a 3 Ghz 1,1 Mac Pro as it would give a better indication if the bottleneck is the processor speed or the PCIe bandwidth.

This is why I'm asking for benchmarks on 3GHz/1,1 MP

About ordering a 5870 just for testing/comparing to a 5770: and if they ask me for my MacPro serial number? I've not an officially supported machine so I'm not sure that they will take the card back... usually this not happens but if it does? Don't want to risk all that money (it so sad to see the same card - sometimes even better cards! - sold at less than half the price for PCs' market).

 

[Caesar_091]

I would be interested to see the results (academically) of the two cards compared on a 3 Ghz 1,1 Mac Pro as it would give a better indication if the bottleneck is the processor speed or the PCIe bandwidth.

I forgot to mention that there is olso a video driver implementation issue since in BootCamp the two card outperform the performances registered on MacOS.... come on apple lets release some better drivers!

 

[lloyd709]

This is why I'm asking for benchmarks on 3GHz/1,1 MP

About ordering a 5870 just for testing/comparing to a 5770: and if they ask me for my MacPro serial number? I've not an officially supported machine so I'm not sure that they will take the card back... usually this not happens but if it does? Don't want to risk all that money (it so sad to see the same card - sometimes even better cards! - sold at less than half the price for PCs' market).

Take a really good look at their returns policy on their website. You won't find anything that says you need to own a supported machine. A purchase is a purchase - whatever it is (with the exception of software) or whatever you want it for - and it's returnable within 2 weeks!!

 

[acepaul]

Working 5770 in 1,1

Not sure what size the cables are, but they are dvi cables, not hdmi. Also, the active adapter is in anticipation of using all ports to run three monitors. Without two active adapters, the card will only run two monitors.

I am leaning toward the monitor being the problem as my 42" vizio runs fine with no flicker.

Took back the ASUS monitor and got an LG. Now all is working well. I am now successfully running 3 monitors on the 5770 with the aid of two active mdp to dvi adapters. No snow, and the start up screen works flawlessly. Now lets hope it keeps working.

1. LG M2762D
2. HP f2105
3. Vizio 42" HDTV

What to do with all this real estate...

UPDATE: All three monitors still working fine in OSX, but boot camp only gives me two working monitors. Catalyst driver seems as updated as I can get it and third monitor shows up, but I can only run any two at one time. I am running 32 bit windows xp home edition.

 

[seek3r]

Take a really good look at their returns policy on their website. You won't find anything that says you need to own a supported machine. A purchase is a purchase - whatever it is (with the exception of software) or whatever you want it for - and it's returnable within 2 weeks!!

Not in my experience, unless they've changed things "component upgrades" are non-returnable once opened. A while back while placing an order for a second 8800 for my 2008 MP I accidentally ordered a 7300, I corrected it immediately over the phone but they still shipped me the 7300 somehow. Since it was all I ended up being billed for I said "to hell with it" and tested it without thinking (the 7300 won't work in an '08, the firmware was never updated to accommodate).

I called Apple and after wading up a bit in support they told me they couldn't take it back once the packaging had been opened - instead they credited me with the price of the 7300 towards an 8800 and told me to keep the other card. I sold it and actually made a profit off my purchase in the end (yeah yeah, CSB, but point is that AFAIK Apple won't take back an opened, tested graphics card unless it's actually defective)

 

[gullySn0wCat]

Took back the ASUS monitor and got an LG. Now all is working well. I am now successfully running 3 monitors on the 5770 with the aid of two active mdp to dvi adapters. No snow, and the start up screen works flawlessly. Now lets hope it keeps working.

1. LG M2762D
2. HP f2105
3. Vizio 42" HDTV

What to do with all this real estate...

UPDATE: All three monitors still working fine in OSX, but boot camp only gives me two working monitors. Catalyst driver seems as updated as I can get it and third monitor shows up, but I can only run any two at one time. I am running 32 bit windows xp home edition.

Get Win7 x64, running XP is just silly when you have 1gb of video RAM

 

[lloyd709]

"component upgrades" are non-returnable once opened

I'm sure I would have spotted this when I went carefully though their policy. Haven't got time to go though the whole thing again but I don't think it's in there anymore and I've had no problems returning 3 opened cards now each time just specifying 'changed mind' in their drop down box of their returns system. They have never asked me a question - just taken it back and refunded.

 

[acepaul]

Get Win7 x64, running XP is just silly when you have 1gb of video RAM

Can I run Win7 x64 on a 1,1?

 

[Garen]

Can I run Win7 x64 on a 1,1?

Yes you can.

 

[seek3r]

I'm sure I would have spotted this when I went carefully though their policy. Haven't got time to go though the whole thing again but I don't think it's in there anymore and I've had no problems returning 3 opened cards now each time just specifying 'changed mind' in their drop down box of their returns system. They have never asked me a question - just taken it back and refunded.

It *has* been almost 3 years, it's possible either their policy changed or I accidentally benefited from a supervisor who didn't know the policy at the time, I was mentioning my experience as a warning to be cautious! Either way, I hope it now works as you've mentioned

 

[Bikibuu]

Okay, I'm pretty much late to the party on this topic, and while I'm sure I could find the answer by digging through the near 20 pages of this thread over several months, I'm hoping just flat out asking will be quicker.

I have a 2006 Mac Pro Quad Core (technically a 2,1 although I hear its essentially the same as a 1,1) and am interested in upgrading to either the 5770 or 5870, preferably the 5870. My specs are thusly:

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro2,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 6 GB
Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP21.007F.B06
SMC Version (system): 1.15f3
Serial Number (system): 157190YUUPZ
Hardware UUID: 00000000-0000-1000-8000-0019E3F8D17E

The 5870 WILL work in the machine, correct? If so, what extras may I need? (I had an x1900 xt, later upgraded to an 8800GT, so I believe i have a spare 6-pin cable) I don't currently own any mini-DVI port converters, and I run two 20 inch Apple Cinema Displays.

Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[goMac]

The 5870 WILL work in the machine, correct? If so, what extras may I need? (I had an x1900 xt, later upgraded to an 8800GT, so I believe i have a spare 6-pin cable) I don't currently own any mini-DVI port converters, and I run two 20 inch Apple Cinema Displays.

Thank you in advance for the help.

I don't want to answer the rest of your question, in since I'm an 08 user (I'm 99% sure the card will work in your machine), but be aware min-DVI converters are not what you want, you want mini display port adaptors.

If you walk out of the Apple store with mini DVI adaptors you will be very sad when you get home.

The card will come with as many 6 pin cables as it requires.

 

[Bikibuu]

I don't want to answer the rest of your question, in since I'm an 08 user (I'm 99% sure the card will work in your machine), but be aware min-DVI converters are not what you want, you want mini display port adaptors.

If you walk out of the Apple store with mini DVI adaptors you will be very sad when you get home.

The card will come with as many 6 pin cables as it requires.

D'oh on terminology. Thanks for the correct tho, and the info on the 6 pin cables.

Did the local apple store carry the cards in stock?? I went into mine during the mid-holiday season to ask about them, and the sales rep replied, "Yes, we have them, in those sets of computers over there," and gestured to the latest line of iMacs. I responded that I was inquiring about the cards separately, as an upgrade, and she stared at me as though I was speaking madness. It was very bizarre.

 

[AngryRedTicTac]

We have 3 local Apple Stores, when I bought my 5770 for my 1,1 two of the three gave me the same blank stares. The 3rd had one in stock they had ordered to be able to put into a new pro if someone wanted 2x5770, they were fairly shocked that anyone was just walking in to buy one. I had to speak to a couple employees to actually get the card, I'd already confirmed they had one over the phone but it still took a couple minutes to sort it out in the store. And yeah, it came with the 6 pin.

I'd say the odds have to be at least as good that they would have a 5870 in stock since it is an actual upgrade for the new machines. Thankfully Barefeats released their data on the 5870 vs 5770 before I bought mine, or I might have waited to order a 5870. But since I have a generic 4x2.66 the performance gap just didn't justify the 200 dollar upcharge for me.

 

[lewdvig]

I can do the 3 GHz 5770 tests. What would you like me to test for you?

My rig has a windows partition and I own quite a few games. I am happy to do some fraps runs and pcmark/3dmark06.

 

[elmateo487]

I can do the 3 GHz 5770 tests. What would you like me to test for you?

My rig has a windows partition and I own quite a few games. I am happy to do some fraps runs and pcmark/3dmark06.

and I have a Mac Pro 1,1 3GHz with a 5870 and a windows 7 64 bootcamp installation and a ton of games etc if u guys want numbers

 

[Caesar_091]

and I have a Mac Pro 1,1 3GHz with a 5870 and a windows 7 64 bootcamp installation and a ton of games etc if u guys want numbers

Hi, it would be great if you could run some of the benchmarks listed here:

http://barefeats.com/wst10g7.html

http://barefeats.com/wst10g3.html

TIA

 

[elmateo487]

I would be happy to run those tests.. but unfortunately I don't think they are standardized tests that I can run? If I am wrong go ahead and correct me. But they look like they are their own benchmarks they have created, and not like the benchmarking tool in Half Life Lost Coast, or Just Cause, or Batman Arkham Asylum

Here is a list of games I have that have benchmarking tools with them.

Crysis
Batman Arkham Asylum
Half Life Lost Coast
Counterstrike Source
Just Cause 2
I also have Metro 2033 but the benchmarker always hangs. Cant figure it out.

Games like COD: BO i gets a constant 60fps with vsync on. So it is above 60.

and benchmarking tools. I have:
3dmark11
Furmark
Ati tray tools

and I am running a 1920x1200 27 inch monitor

 

[Caesar_091]

Thanks for your reply; the goal should be a comparative benchmark between two MacPros (both 2006 / 1,1 and a 5870) one with 2,66GHz CPUs and the other with 3,0GHz CPUs.

Benchmarking Steam's games could be a way to do that (<http://www.macbenchmarks.com/Downloads.html>)... but of course anything that could tell how much the CPU is bounding the 5870 installed in MPs with slower CPUs will be much appreciated.

Still no benchmark like that so is still unclear if the 5870 is too much for an 1,1 MP.. maybe the 5770 is enough!