Apple vs. Microsoft

[Markoth]

I'd like to point out something I've noticed for the past couple of years or so, and get some feedback. Since Apple has lost Steve Jobs, and Microsoft has gained Satya Nadella (who is arguably quite the visionary), and Mac OS X has basically become Windows in terms of reliability, and Windows has become Mac OS X by the same metric, wouldn't it be fair to say that Apple and Microsoft have switched places? I know this may be a tough issue for some of you, but I'd like your input. Thanks.

 

[loby]

I'd like to point out something I've noticed for the past couple of years or so, and get some feedback. Since Apple has lost Steve Jobs, and Microsoft has gained Satya Nadella (who is arguably quite the visionary), and Mac OS X has basically become Windows in terms of reliability, and Windows has become Max OS X by the same metric, wouldn't it be fair to say that Apple and Microsoft have switched places? I know this may be a tough issue for some of you, but I'd like your input. Thanks.

You will probably have many on this site repute you about the "switch" thoughts, but in fairness in examining your thoughts...."maybe", but not yet. Apple "may" be heading down that path, but they are not like Microsoft yet in my opinion.

Nadella in regards to the Windows platform is just implementing what Microsoft had desired for many years to do, even under Gates, but is now able to because people have changed their view points on cloud and things, or that now the next generation users have been molded to think as Microsoft now thinks as far as the the direction to go. I really don't see anything "New" from Microsoft, just "empowered" by the current times.

Yes, Apple has lost the "perfectionist" mentality losing Jobs as the head, but just because Apple has not "innovated" as far as any "new" visionary things in the last few years does not mean they are done. Technology has reach some top limits and companies may need a few years to invent newer technologies creating new ideas etc. Just because there is not big leaps like we have seen every two years does not mean Apple is done.

They have to reinvent themselves and "think differently" again. Hard to do when you are getting fat on the $ with really no need to change direction.

Only time will tell.

 

[Tech198]

I reckon their probably neck and neck... Microsoft's VR seems good

Apple will probably eventually shift to the cloud like MS has done with services.. Apple's already kind of doing that already with Apple music, and other services...

I think none of us will buy physical software products in future.... one day everything will be cloud based only. as its always more convenient regardless which company we go to. It will happen.

 

[phrehdd]

I believe that Apple behaves akin to MS in certain business moves. However, their target markets have some overlap but MS goes much further in directions that Apple fails to capture or does not even pursue.

To quote myself with respect to personal computers -

Windows holds the hardware hostage
while
Mac computers hold the operating system hostage

 

[sigmadog]

I think Apple is like Sony in the 90's. Spread thin in too many directions. They're doing fine at the moment, but I think we're approaching Peak Apple. Of course, that's been said before.

Personally I don't care about iPhones, iPads, Watches or Cars. But looking at the computer market right now, I'm seeing a lot of PC systems that are much more appealing (with tons of options and clear upgrade paths) than what is offered by Apple. If I were in the market and could afford new software as well, I'd be going HP / Lenovo / Dell / Asus over Apple.

Oh, and my next phone probably won't be by Apple.

 

[maflynn]

I'd like to point out something I've noticed for the past couple of years or so, and get some feedback. Since Apple has lost Steve Jobs, and Microsoft has gained Satya Nadella (who is arguably quite the visionary), and Mac OS X has basically become Windows in terms of reliability, and Windows has become Max OS X

I think these are two different topics, first is the change of leadership in both companies.
Nadella made a lot of positive changes to MS, because he had too. They largely lost the mobile wars (if you want to call it that). They had an opportunity before he arrived to become the #3 mobile OS but failed, and even before that they could have unseated apple as Windows CE was available long before iOS but MS also squandered that opportunity. Nadella, has so far successfully transitioned MS from a PC company to a services company. He still has a lot of work in front of him, but he's doing very well.

Conversely Cook as managed what Jobs helped bring about but as done very little new products under his leadership. I'd call him a great manager but one who seems to lack vision.

As for OS X vs. Windows. I see the annual major update of OS X to be a bad thing, you cannot dictate major features on an annual basis, previously it took 2 or 3 years for a major version of OS X. I think pushing out OS X faster is a mistake.

Windows has been a lot stabler and I've liked what MS has done with win10. I was a big fan of windows 7. Win 8 not so much but windows 10 is a nice step in the right direction.

 

[kazmac]

I clearly see the writing on the wall. If Apple does not eradicate the worms from their orchard, this 27" iMac will most likely be my last full blown Mac computer. I'll stick with the iPad Pro thanks to the Pencil, but who knows if I'll buy any additional Apple tech after university. The decline of Apple's software over the past three years is frustrating and sad. It feels like they just do not care about their products any more and are completely driven by profit (I fully understand profits are the main desire of all companies, but there's such a blatant disregard for quality control, this bugs me.) I agree annual OS and iOS upgrades are a huge mistake.

I would be happy to try Windows 10, especially if we upgrade at work first (where I work technology is snail slow in updating software and hardware.) Like so many others, I have way too much money invested in iTunes purchases and Applecentric software to make the jump now.

 

[loby]

I think Apple is like Sony in the 90's. Spread thin in too many directions. They're doing fine at the moment, but I think we're approaching Peak Apple. Of course, that's been said before.

Personally I don't care about iPhones, iPads, Watches or Cars. But looking at the computer market right now, I'm seeing a lot of PC systems that are much more appealing (with tons of options and clear upgrade paths) than what is offered by Apple. If I were in the market and could afford new software as well, I'd be going HP / Lenovo / Dell / Asus over Apple.

Oh, and my next phone probably won't be by Apple.

Interesting, history repeats itself, even trends in technology and even our comments on forums. If Apple all of a sudden put out the latest and greatest Mac with state of the art specs. Or an iphone that is what everyone has been asking for, people forget what was said a few months ago and Apple is on top of the game....again.

But...the interesting occurrence lately if you observe and notice the trends, Apple has shown a behavior that has been consistent with past history of companies (an empires) that have peaked and is now on a decline. People generally equate success with income generated...so many (maybe including Apple) may feel this is not true and that things are all fine.

But honestly take a look at the age of top management. The reality is that the top Apple leadership is aging toward the time and age of retirement and they may be gunning for their company to rake in the cash so they can exit nicely. They have worked really hard (most of them) for many years now and may want a life after Jobs. They act to me like they are burned out and ready to give it to the next generation. Ivy seems to spend more time out-and-about, especially in England and Tim is traveling about (though setting up biz with China and India), but it looks to me that they are burned out and pushing for the end of their reign and are beginning to let the new hires do the major stuff who were not under the pressure of Steve Jobs' perfection mentality. Seems a little more "easier" now with Tim as the lead and not a perfectionist at the helm. Might be good for employees, but customers are getting half-baked stuff that would normally not get out the door with past leadership.

History repeats itself, including mega companies, and Apple is not the exception. It might have to take Microsoft to dominate again until Apple decides to push reality again. But...maybe it is over and they can say, "It was a good run..." Only time will tell.

 

[Markoth]

I think these are two different topics, first is the change of leadership in both companies.
Nadella made a lot of positive changes to MS, because he had too. They largely lost the mobile wars (if you want to call it that). They had an opportunity before he arrived to become the #3 mobile OS but failed, and even before that they could have unseated apple as Windows CE was available long before iOS but MS also squandered that opportunity. Nadella, has so far successfully transitioned MS from a PC company to a services company. He still has a lot of work in front of him, but he's doing very well.

Conversely Cook as managed what Jobs helped bring about but as done very little new products under his leadership. I'd call him a great manager but one who seems to lack vision.

As for OS X vs. Windows. I see the annual major update of OS X to be a bad thing, you cannot dictate major features on an annual basis, previously it took 2 or 3 years for a major version of OS X. I think pushing out OS X faster is a mistake.

Windows has been a lot stabler and I've liked what MS has done with win10. I was a big fan of windows 7. Win 8 not so much but windows 10 is a nice step in the right direction.

This is the reason that I can't say any version of OS X has been rock-solid since Snow Leopard. It was the last version to be around for two years. To be tested for two years. Ever since then, OS X has never been completely stable.

 

[Honumaui]

not switched IMHO but I do think Steve was the drive in Apple and why it jumped the way it did
it was not computers that made them jump to the top

I do think that apple has become more like MS a huge company driven by deadlines and profit and MS was that company and realized they also have to innovate and move forward and think more outside the we produce OS and Office

apple revolutionized the music industry and cell phone industry which then effected everything and everyone in some way
MS produced there OS which only effects those users same as office ? the Xbox and PS wars again closed to those who use those

MS has always been inside their own box
Apple has never bothered with thinking there is a box

but Apple is not the same sadly and dont think it will ever come back to what it was but the void will be filled it always is

 

[tdale]

I'd like to point out something I've noticed for the past couple of years or so, and get some feedback. Since Apple has lost Steve Jobs, and Microsoft has gained Satya Nadella (who is arguably quite the visionary), and Mac OS X has basically become Windows in terms of reliability, and Windows has become Mac OS X by the same metric, wouldn't it be fair to say that Apple and Microsoft have switched places? I know this may be a tough issue for some of you, but I'd like your input. Thanks.

No. OSX is still OSX, albeit with Apple being not so great with issues and bugs. My rMBP late 2013 runs the same as it did then. Windows will bloat and a full reinstall will invigorate it. Note that I use both, switched to Mac solely for integration with my iPhone and iPad, so I use and like both. But the fact remains that Windows does blow out over time.

 

[lowendlinux]

This is the reason that I can't say any version of OS X has been rock-solid since Snow Leopard. It was the last version to be around for two years. To be tested for two years. Ever since then, OS X has never been completely stable.

Snow wasn't all that great until 10.6.6

 

[Markoth]

Snow wasn't all that great until 10.6.6

yeah, but then it even had two more versions. It was really rock-solid by the time Apple stopped updating it.

 

[sigmadog]

I'd still be on Snow Leopard if it weren't for a couple programs I use regularly. Most of the new features in OSX seem to be about simplifying the OS, integrating social media, and caging the user deeper in the Apple ecosystem. Because hardware innovation is slowing, Apple wants to sell us services (monthly subscriptions are the future for tech companies - I hate the concept, but it's true), and the way to maximize that, it seems, is to craft the OS in such a way that signing up for cloud and streaming services is super easy - as long as they are Apple services.

From the business and profitability standpoint, it makes sense. But from the user standpoint it means less choice, and more hardware restrictions.

 

[Phil A.]

My 2 cents:

Cloud
Microsoft > Apple

Business Apps
Microsoft > Apple

Enterprise
Microsoft > Apple

Computers
Microsoft > Apple (Apple's PC line is going stale and Microsoft are showing real innovation with the Surface line). Also, having been a long term OS X user, I've moved to Windows 10 as I find it more reliable (blasphemy to some, I know!)

Mobile (phones and tablets)
Apple > Microsoft

Image
Apple > Microsoft


Having said all that, I use both Apple's and Microsoft's products and like them both: On my desk I've got a Surface Book, iPad Pro, iPad Mini, iPhone and MacBook Air

 

[phrehdd]

My 2 cents:

Cloud
Microsoft > Apple

Business Apps
Microsoft > Apple

Enterprise
Microsoft > Apple

Computers
Microsoft > Apple (Apple's PC line is going stale and Microsoft are showing real innovation with the Surface line). Also, having been a long term OS X user, I've moved to Windows 10 as I find it more reliable (blasphemy to some, I know!)

Mobile (phones and tablets)
Apple > Microsoft

Image
Apple > Microsoft


Having said all that, I use both Apple's and Microsoft's products and like them both: On my desk I've got a Surface Book, iPad Pro, iPad Mini, iPhone and MacBook Air

What bothers me about your post (assessment/statement) is that sadly I have to entirely agree with it. I appreciate your honesty.

 

[maxsix]

I enjoy both companies products.

Why compare... There's enough difference between them, perhaps more than ever. Oh sure one is certainly free to measure one against the other, but it doesn't serve a purpose. The two desktop operating systems each have their unique strengths, which one you choose is directly dependent on your needs and preferences. I use both because thats what it takes in the cross platform environment i work in.

If I had to choose just one, that would be a daunting task. Thats how useful each of these are.

 

[I7guy]

No. OSX is still OSX, albeit with Apple being not so great with issues and bugs. My rMBP late 2013 runs the same as it did then. Windows will bloat and a full reinstall will invigorate it. Note that I use both, switched to Mac solely for integration with my iPhone and iPad, so I use and like both. But the fact remains that Windows does blow out over time.

Youre right about Windows blowing out over time. However it took my windows 7 install 7 years for that to happen and the reason was fixed in windows 8...winsxs. However I'm still able to use it, but will be forced to update to Windows 10 in a few months to resolve the issue.

 

[orioncrystalice]

Not even close. I haven't opened up Pages (on Mac) in a while, and I discovered tonight that it finally trumps Word for Mac again. At least for me it does. It's a small example of the constant head-shaking I do at Microsoft. I continually see them missing the boat as though they haven't taken a beating. The best thing I have seen out of them in some time is an iOS keyboard. Apple's current flaws notwithstanding, this isn't even a contest for me.

 

[Easttime]

I went through many years of way too much maintenance time and money messing with DOS then Windows, trying to find the sweet spot between desktop, laptop and mobile devices while dealing with fiddly hardware and software. I found it with Apple 5 years ago and made the switch then. It's been great. I have not experienced the OS X and iOSbugs and problems others speak of (except the initial El Capitan/Office incompatibility, which Apple/Microsoft fixed). As I approach retirement I worry about the replacement costs for my aging Apple gear, but the tight integration between Apple devices and low maintenance time is very appealing. For now I put a new hard drive in my 2010 MacBook and I am dropping a new SSD into my mid-2011 iMac. Windows 10 might be great, but I've lived through Windows ups and downs before and won't be going back unless I have to. Here's hoping Apple holds to the vision and I can afford to stay in the game.

 

[phrehdd]

I went through many years of way too much maintenance time messing with DOS then Windows, trying to find the sweet spot between desktop, laptop and mobile devices while dealing with poor hardware and software. I found it with Apple 5 years ago and made the switch then. It's been great. I have not experienced the bugs and problems others speak of (except the initial El Capitan/Office incompatibility, which Apple/Microsoft fixed). As I approach retirement I worry about the replacement costs for my aging Apple gear, but the tight integration between devices and low maintenance time is very appealing. For now I put a new hard drive in my 2010 MacBook and I am dropping a new SSD into my mid-2011 iMac. Windows 10 might be great, but I've lived through Windows ups and downs before and won't be going back unless I have to. Here's hoping Apple holds to the vision and I can afford to stay in the game.

I recall DOS days quite well and had zero issues. In fact, most things ran better as there was less to go wrong and we weren't stuck with top-down programming and a lot of other paradigms. As for Windows, yeah was quite a poor attempt at GUI over DOS then further bloat went on. However, Apple was not without its share of WTF moments such as early days of the iPhone when trying to web browse was painful and slow. It took another 1-2 iterations before it was as promoted. I'll let the carriers too take some blame but none the less, Apple promoted it. We have also seen Apple slow to update some items, not update others and then pull the rug out from under many (XSANS, Aperture etc.) while all the time keeping us paying our Apple tax.

 

[maflynn]

I recall DOS days quite well and had zero issues.

Same here, though MS Dos version 4.0 was not the best, but prior versions were awesome. I remember those early days and had so much fun on computers back then.

I'd say windows 3.1 was a great product from MS, yes it ran atop of dos, but i think it was the first version that ran fast, solid and lots of support for apps.

Apple was not without its share of WTF

Agreed, but I'd go back further then the iPhone and say some of Apple's classic operating systems had its own issues, whether we're talking about extension conflicts or some other compatibility problems or stability problems. System 6 back in the late 80s had a lot of problems.

 

[loby]

I went through many years of way too much maintenance time and money messing with DOS then Windows, trying to find the sweet spot between desktop, laptop and mobile devices while dealing with fiddly hardware and software. I found it with Apple 5 years ago and made the switch then. It's been great. I have not experienced the OS X and iOSbugs and problems others speak of (except the initial El Capitan/Office incompatibility, which Apple/Microsoft fixed). As I approach retirement I worry about the replacement costs for my aging Apple gear, but the tight integration between Apple devices and low maintenance time is very appealing. For now I put a new hard drive in my 2010 MacBook and I am dropping a new SSD into my mid-2011 iMac. Windows 10 might be great, but I've lived through Windows ups and downs before and won't be going back unless I have to. Here's hoping Apple holds to the vision and I can afford to stay in the game.

Yes, there are many of us who came from the early Windows slavery to OSMAC & OS X during the mass exodus about 6-8 years ago, especially during OS X Snow Loepard days and we hope that our older macs will still work a little longer. Many people don't want to invest in a whole new upgraded ecosystem again (costs) as what may be a prediction soon to have to being forced to upgrade to stay 'reliant' in tech.

If Apple does not work to compete with Windows 10, they might see a mass exodus come again soon to MIcrosoft I hate to say... After saturation of iPhones and toys in China and India, they will have to come up with something to keep going if they don't clean up the OS X and Mac line-up. While Windows continues its pursuit to final perfection (or at least their business model of slavery again).

I was a heavy MS user from back since the Windows 1 days...wow...long ago. Even almost became a Windows Architect (for those who remember that elite fu-fu). Also...said I would NEVER touch a Mac...then...OS X Leopard...then Snow Leopard...bought a Mac to just "play" with the completion...Well... Plugged an accessory into a Mac and it worked without having to configure with drivers, IO's, software or hours making it work. Switched and never desired to go back...it just worked. Got work done. No need to spend hours just to get things to work. Sold.

Now...hum....with all the complaining people do on the forums in regard to Apple, we have to understand that there has been a shift to the next generation that have different vision and priorities. Those still around from the last "Steve Jobs" era either have retired or planning (money, money) now their exist probably soon. New people are at the helm. Takes time to find what works. New generation always does not want to do it like the previous, even if the previous did it better... It is what it is...tech now is different, demanding more than the simpler days. To be fair, tech demands are way greater now in pursuit to satisfy consumers. Apple Help to create this problem and now are eating it slowly, good and bad tech has changed. The writing in on the wall, choices soon will have to be made how much we will have to spend vs. not being able to do it ourselves, as tech companies push the focus on non-user input, to total reliance on cloud services which ultimately in the long runs costs...us. Hopefully our old gear will last...
[doublepost=1463497329][/doublepost]

Same here, though MS Dos version 4.0 was not the best, but prior versions were awesome. I remember those early days and had so much fun on computers back then.

I'd say windows 3.1 was a great product from MS, yes it ran atop of dos, but i think it was the first version that ran fast, solid and lots of support for apps.


Agreed, but I'd go back further then the iPhone and say some of Apple's classic operating systems had its own issues, whether we're talking about extension conflicts or some other compatibility problems or stability problems. System 6 back in the late 80s had a lot of problems.

Yes, those were the days when simplicity was fun...but graphics...oh my....

But...Windows 3.11 now that was something....was a great product for the times. Windows 2000 (NT) was my favorite actually.

 

[phrehdd]

Yes, there are many of us who came from the early Windows slavery to OSMAC & OS X during the mass exodus about 6-8 years ago, especially during OS X Snow Loepard days and we hope that our older macs will still work a little longer. Many people don't want to invest in a whole new upgraded ecosystem again (costs) as what may be a prediction soon to have to being forced to upgrade to stay 'reliant' in tech.

If Apple does not work to compete with Windows 10, they might see a mass exodus come again soon to MIcrosoft I hate to say... After saturation of iPhones and toys in China and India, they will have to come up with something to keep going if they don't clean up the OS X and Mac line-up. While Windows continues its pursuit to final perfection (or at least their business model of slavery again).

I was a heavy MS user from back since the Windows 1 days...wow...long ago. Even almost became a Windows Architect (for those who remember that elite fu-fu). Also...said I would NEVER touch a Mac...then...OS X Leopard...then Snow Leopard...bought a Mac to just "play" with the completion...Well... Plugged an accessory into a Mac and it worked without having to configure with drivers, IO's, software or hours making it work. Switched and never desired to go back...it just worked. Got work done. No need to spend hours just to get things to work. Sold.

Now...hum....with all the complaining people do on the forums in regard to Apple, we have to understand that there has been a shift to the next generation that have different vision and priorities. Those still around from the last "Steve Jobs" era either have retired or planning (money, money) now their exist probably soon. New people are at the helm. Takes time to find what works. New generation always does not want to do it like the previous, even if the previous did it better... It is what it is...tech now is different, demanding more than the simpler days. To be fair, tech demands are way greater now in pursuit to satisfy consumers. Apple Help to create this problem and now are eating it slowly, good and bad tech has changed. The writing in on the wall, choices soon will have to be made how much we will have to spend vs. not being able to do it ourselves, as tech companies push the focus on non-user input, to total reliance on cloud services which ultimately in the long runs costs...us. Hopefully our old gear will last...
[doublepost=1463497329][/doublepost]

Yes, those were the days when simplicity was fun...but graphics...oh my....

But...Windows 3.11 now that was something....was a great product for the times. Windows 2000 (NT) was my favorite actually.

I thought Windows for workgroups etc. was terrible. I can appreciate your like for Win 2000 (which is not NT) and while NT 3.5 was a dog it was very stable. My fav OS remains with OS/2. It did a better DOS than DOS and a better Windows 3.x than MS. It's only downfall was its network connectivity with respect to the OS itself. Sadly, Apple and IBM's baby "Pink" never got off the ground.

 

[Honumaui]

][e my first computer then 128k mac 512 etc...
about os 5 or 6 I left to PCs came back at OS X
I love macs and I love computers I think apple has lost it sadly and I think many of us are not going to compromise for some strange loyalty thinking I must use apple ? I will use what I think is best
also once I am inside most programs things are equal

as far as stable machines ? always built my own PC top of line power supply and dont cheap out proper cooling never had hardware issues solid gear is solid gear