Apple vs. Microsoft

[sigmadog]

If I were in the market and could afford new software as well, I'd be going HP / Lenovo / Dell / Asus over Apple.

To add to my previous comments, I've been an Apple user since 1990 (bought my first Mac, a IIfx in 1992 - God I loved that machine!). As a graphic designer, the Mac was the best choice back then, and remained so until just a few years ago. Now the primary design tools (Adobe) are ubiquitous on both platforms, so the differences mean less than they once did.

However, as I approach retirement, I'm not that interested in switching platforms, especially given my significant investment in Mac-based design and illustration software. But like I said in the Mac Pro forums, if I need a new computer, it won't be a new Mac Pro, and probably not even an iMac. It will probably be a used 5,1 Mac Pro. I just can't justify rewarding Apple for ignoring those of us who desire computers with reasonable upgrade paths. Running the latest OS is less important to me than a stable and reliable work flow, so if I have to stick with Mavericks (and Adobe CS6) until 2022 when I (hope to) retire, so be it.

 

[rezwits]

I reckon their probably neck and neck... Microsoft's VR seems good

Apple will probably eventually shift to the cloud like MS has done with services.. Apple's already kind of doing that already with Apple music, and other services...

I think none of us will buy physical software products in future.... one day everything will be cloud based only. as its always more convenient regardless which company we go to. It will happen.

Neck and Neck, kinda agree now.
As far as software, there will be a cloud based generation and a non-cloud based generation.

But I think the main mistake Apple made, and this is a big one, is they got rid of skeuomorphic design. When I look back at the iOS and Mavericks during the change, I see why they went this way. The main reason I think is that if an App developer especially on iOS wanted to make an App, making the interface and the App icon is really simple, you just take a square and color it neon green or neon blue and put a white outline of some shape, like a phone, for instance, and viola, you have a Futuristic App Icon... LAME

When I look at my "Modern" or "Current" mac and iOS products, I see this very very plain jane OS skin that SUCKS. Yes it's very simple to create something that blends in with the eco-system that Apple created versus trying to make a skeuomorphic design for your App, but there were some talented designers who could do this and they fit in the ecosystem and looked and felt great.

Now Apple's plain "style" if you call it a style, I honestly think it's no-style because, you get a white box, open up the product and get more milky white plastic, and then get a white piece of glass with metal back. Turn on the device and you don't get "toys" you get the same boring interface with every app, a few sliders, a view, and some checkboxes = your next new app.

I like the idea of an App with a Lemon peel icon or a tennis ball or golf ball divot icon, and you open it up and inside is a tennis court texture, with a tennis net, or a green of a golf course that you can feel.

What do you get now? A white background with white sliders with green on or off. I mean this really sucks, it's so boring and bland. But this is pretty much like Windows 10. Windows 10 is all squares with the baby cyan blue with a Internet Explorer icon, or a Skype icon, and every thing looks the same, it's all the same basic 8-16 colors, on both platforms.

I seriously if I had one dream for Apple it would be to take this sorry a$$ basic design aesthetic they have, and create skins or guikits. They need to hire 10 teams of 100 employees/designers to work specifically on different guikits that in iOS 11 or OS X 10.13 or whatever can be selected and you get a good old "lick-able" -Steve Jobs selection of how you want your look and feel to be.

Take those 10 teams and the best 5 turn into options we can choose from. And bring back skeuomorphic as one of them, because this a race to boredom... THINK DIFFERENT, AGAIN

 

[maflynn]

is they got rid of skeuomorphic design.

I am so glad they did that. That ship has long sailed and I hated how the following features in the various apps - leather bound, ripped yellow note paper, and thee odd game center implementation
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THINK DIFFERENT, AGAIN

I think Apple is looking to cater to the majority and so that means not thinking different

 

[rezwits]

Damn (pict), but yeah as skeuomorphic, I meant having the option along with 3 other GUI choices would be a win for a company who is supposed to be all the rage in the "Fashion Industry" now days, or to have some style choices for "your" style...

 

[MI MacGuy]

Microsoft and Apple are very much on par now with the only difference being that Microsoft seems to be much more transparent about their flaws and their desire to fix those flaws.

More and more, I'm beginning to see the cracks within Apple. Their attitude is beginning to look arrogant towards users and their fans. Software updates have more and more problems. Their hardware updates aren't anything revolutionary. Their services are far behind Google and Microsoft.

That doesn't mean Apple is doing things wrong; the current tech market is just magnifying their problems. Google and Apple are still going tit for tat but Microsoft kicked it into high gear to rejoin the pack. I'm glad Microsoft has basically "scorched earth" their mobile game plan. Give it a year or so. The Surface Phone will get them back in the conversation.

For Apple's sake, I hope their Air/Pro refreshes are substantial. The redesigns will not be enough for the price I assume they'll be priced at if they're on par with Windows machines.

 

[rezwits]

I think there are two problems Apple is facing.

1. They have so much cash on hand, that people believe that money can solve any problem. I am not one who believes that money can solve any problem. But in the case of Apple I scratch my head and say "Hire some employees and get some work done, and solve all kinds of problems."

2. The other issue I think they are facing, that I haven't seen anyone notice is, Apple is building that new Apple Space Campus! That thing is a MASSIVE undertaking. I think it could literally, in the course of the next 5 years, change things BIG TIME. When they get that done, and people start working hard on Mac and iOS projects again and not just what's going to happen at the new campus, things will get better.

Hopefully

 

[2ilent8cho]

I'd like to point out something I've noticed for the past couple of years or so, and get some feedback. Since Apple has lost Steve Jobs, and Microsoft has gained Satya Nadella (who is arguably quite the visionary), and Mac OS X has basically become Windows in terms of reliability, and Windows has become Mac OS X by the same metric, wouldn't it be fair to say that Apple and Microsoft have switched places? I know this may be a tough issue for some of you, but I'd like your input. Thanks.

Not really, i was a Windows enthusiast from early 90s, i moved to Mac in 2011, Windows 8 was the final straw. Mac OS X is just a better experience than Windows. I would not want Windows at home now, its nothing short of a pain.

I also manage at work 220 Mac's , 650 iPads, and 180 Windows PCs. Windows is the pain in our side, forever needing baby sitting. Endless patches, malware, virus, ransomeware, rebuilds.

Then you have the **** that Microsoft is trying to pull on users with the almost forced Windows 10 upgrade.

 

[loby]

Not really, i was a Windows enthusiast from early 90s, i moved to Mac in 2011, Windows 8 was the final straw. Mac OS X is just a better experience than Windows. I would not want Windows at home now, its nothing short of a pain.

I also manage at work 220 Mac's , 650 iPads, and 180 Windows PCs. Windows is the pain in our side, forever needing baby sitting. Endless patches, malware, virus, ransomeware, rebuilds.

Then you have the **** that Microsoft is trying to pull on users with the almost forced Windows 10 upgrade.

Yes..true. The BIG question is "how" and "why" Microsoft is getting away with this "forced" upgrade!?! Doesn't it violate some law "making us" have to upgrade on something we had paid money for and purchased? Just because it is "free" does not make it right to "force" it on machines. Why hasn't there been any law suits or actions against the behavior that a company is "forcing" a product on someone? Does not make sense.

 

[phrehdd]

Yes..true. The BIG question is "how" and "why" Microsoft is getting away with this "forced" upgrade!?! Doesn't it violate some law "making us" have to upgrade on something we had paid money for and purchased? Just because it is "free" does not make it right to "force" it on machines. Why hasn't there been any law suits or actions against the behavior that a company is "forcing" a product on someone? Does not make sense.

I have to agree with you that MS loves to pressure people to move forward with their latest OS. What is sadder is that people pay (in my opinion) to be real world beta testers with every new incarnation of Windows. I have yet to see a near fully hardened version come out that isn't seriously flawed. I do expect some flaws but MS made it fashionable to dump their products out and make people pay for unfinished software. Sadder yet were all the poor decisions made long ago to dump serious software offerings in favour of all MS products in the corporate world. I could go on and on about how convoluted and bloated Windows is but alas, it would be a rehash of hundreds of threads (elsewhere) and a topic for another thread if desired on this site.

 

[I7guy]

Not really, i was a Windows enthusiast from early 90s, i moved to Mac in 2011, Windows 8 was the final straw. Mac OS X is just a better experience than Windows. I would not want Windows at home now, its nothing short of a pain.

I also manage at work 220 Mac's , 650 iPads, and 180 Windows PCs. Windows is the pain in our side, forever needing baby sitting. Endless patches, malware, virus, ransomeware, rebuilds.

Then you have the **** that Microsoft is trying to pull on users with the almost forced Windows 10 upgrade.

Can't agree with this, Windows 7 and later is an extraordinary stable platform; even Windows 8 and 8.1. I've personally been using Windows 7 since it came out in 2009, 7 years without a reinstall and have every version of Windows installed at home except Windows server based on 10.

 

[AFEPPL]

I've worked with both companies professionally.
I'm currently working with MS now on some new azure projects and I'm really liking the culture, the drive for innovation and want/determination to move forward. I've not seen any of that at apple for a long while.

As for "forced upgrades", that label firmly lives with apple both on iOS and X platforms.
im fedup of the bullying prompts and reminders to upgrade. MS doesnt push like this at all.

 

[phrehdd]

Can't agree with this, Windows 7 and later is an extraordinary stable platform; even Windows 8 and 8.1. I've personally been using Windows 7 since it came out in 2009, 7 years without a reinstall and have every version of Windows installed at home except Windows server based on 10.

I find that XP (for what it was then) along with Win 7 perhaps were the better offerings after Win 95. However, we had to deal with Vista (which drove me to Mac), Win 8.x which is nonsense bloat and I'll reserve judgement on Win 10 when I do more hands on. Overall, every Win version out was plagued with way to many issues to be called a solid stable system for all consumers and businesses. (Yes some folks are 'lucky' with few if any problems but they seem to be the exceptions and not the norm.)

 

[maflynn]

They have so much cash on hand,

The problem that they have that a lot of the cash is over seas. If they use that money for anything in the US, they'll be on the hook for a huge tax bill (in the neighborhood of 40 plus percent).

As for "forced upgrades", that label firmly lives with apple both on iOS and X platforms.
im fedup of the bullying prompts and reminders to upgrade. MS doesnt push like this at all.

Not for nothing, but there's a number of reports where people were upgraded to windows 10, without their express permission. Also they're no better then apple with the nagging users with the get windows 10 notification. I'm on windows 10 and really like it, but I don't like their behavior in this case.

I do think MS is hitting their stride in a number of areas, where is Apple is missing the mark. Its the old trying to win vs. trying not to lose. MS has had no choice to change gears and really rethink how they do business because they basically lost the mobility wars.

 

[George Dawes]

Apple are spending too much time on this car thing rather than what matters - the macs that made them

You cab blame jony ive's bloated ego for that

 

[TheRainKing]

There's not much difference in the companies now.

If I weren't already in the Apple eco-system, I'd probably be choosing Microsoft products at this point. Microsoft have already been at the bottom so it feels like things can only improve there, but Apple on the other hand are getting worse every year.

 

[I7guy]

Apple are spending too much time on this car thing rather than what matters - the macs that made them

You cab blame jony ive's bloated ego for that

So you think the car is the reason for what now? And this "whole thing Mac mess" whatever it is is due to jony Ives "bloated ego"?
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There's not much difference in the companies now.

If I weren't already in the Apple eco-system, I'd probably be choosing Microsoft products at this point. Microsoft have already been at the bottom so it feels like things can only improve there, but Apple on the other hand are getting worse every year.

My kids love their MacBooks. Multiple windows laptops plus sp4, two MacBook pros, 2 iPads and 4 iPhones and Apple tv. We chose both companies.

 

[maflynn]

rather than what matters - the macs that made them

Do you think at this point in time, that putting more money and R&D is going to turn things around? Looks at PC sales in general, and see a trend that consumers are buying less and less computers. We may very well be seeing a "post pc" environment where people do most of their computing on mobile devices, like their phones.

I don't see how Macs (which got them there), can turn things around, but rather investing in the future with new products. I'm not saying a car is that solution but relying on products that are mature such as the computer is not the answer.

 

[Mildredop]

I'm no tech expert or anything, but as much as I want to move away from Macs (In the same way I moved away from iPhone), Windows just doesn't cut it for me.

Price up a Windows machine similar to a MacBook and it's more expensive.

Plus, Windows looks really dated to me. The interface just doesn't look at polished and pleasant as OS X.

 

[AFEPPL]

Win10 looks and is years ahead of OS X right now...

 

[maflynn]

Price up a Windows machine similar to a MacBook and it's more expensive.

Not really. Price up a quad core Dell XPS 15, with 16GB of ram, and you're paying 2k. That difference for 2,000 dollars is you're getting a nVidia dGPU, Skylake CPU and a 17 hour battery. Currently for the Mac, the 2,000 will get you a Broadwell process, iGPU only and a 9 hour battery. You'll have to kick in 500 more dollars for the discrete GPU model for the Mac.

Seems like you're getting more computer for less money.

 

[satcomer]

Windows has been a lot stabler and I've liked what MS has done with win10. I was a big fan of windows 7. Win 8 not so much but windows 10 is a nice step in the right direction.

How come there are articles like Windows 10 Upgrade How To Opt out?

 

[loby]

I've worked with both companies professionally.
I'm currently working with MS now on some new azure projects and I'm really liking the culture, the drive for innovation and want/determination to move forward. I've not seen any of that at apple for a long while.

As for "forced upgrades", that label firmly lives with apple both on iOS and X platforms.
im fedup of the bullying prompts and reminders to upgrade. MS doesnt push like this at all.

I am very surprised that someone who works professionally with Microsoft does not believe that they are 'forcing' people to upgrade. I consider 'force' when it is not an option and they do it without permission. Plus Microsoft will not let you delete the folders or stop their tracking services that have nothing to do with the functioning of the OS.

Also, you cannot delete some of their updates That you you might accidently install if you do not check every update and have to do major research because they stopped telling you what an update is. Even if you tell Windows to hide or not install an update, the next update round, they unhide the update without permission that you have said not to install and sometimes installs it anyway or tries to slip it in in another update. They are now the viruses you have to monitor if you do not want them to do things with your system.

Microsoft also downloads W10 files on your system automatically and the company automatically updated systems without the user's permission. There are plenty of people who have voiced this and I know personally people who have come to me and asked, "Why is my computer upgrading itself?" They did not upgrade their computer OS, but Microsoft decided for themselves to do this. Some customers are happy with their purchased Windows 7 or 8.1, but Microsoft went against their decision and put Windows 10 on it anyway. By default Windows is set to download and install security updates and updates to the 'existing' system, not to decide to update to a "New" OS.

There is no option to tell Microsoft that you do not want Windows 10 UNLESS you install third party blocks. Plus, Microsoft collecting information etc. about what is on your system and other things. This is well known and you can "Google" it...another company that collects information. But the difference is you can 'choose' not to use Google, but if using A Windows based system, you have to either eventually comply or switch OS's.

Apple has a reminder to upgrade, but does not download the OS beforehand and or has in their automatic download default option to upgrade the system without your consent.

That is a major difference between Apple and Microsoft.

 

[AFEPPL]

Lets be clear, i don't work with MS or Apples OS teams in any shape or form, so have no insight to what is their official direction on these matters. I work on "other enterprise solutions", one of which is now available as a cloud platform via azure and both companies also use these software platforms internally for core functions.

My system never downloaded ANYTHING without me saying so first - indeed all i got was a logo in the bottom corner vs the constant prompts from apple every few hours or when i log onto an iOS device. And if you say "no", "what time would you like me to do it tonight" is the next thing thrust upon you from apple in a vane attempt to either trick you into upgrading of to beat you into submission with constant prompts and nagging. I'm not aware of anyone else that has had W10 "forced" upon them. (I can't and don't speak for the "world"). If people are crazy enough to have "automatic updates" selected, well - it is an "update", so i don't see the issue again. It's just a download. Macs download updates automatically and apply them too!!!! https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201541

Again on the collection, if people are dumb enough to accept the defaults when installing things on their machines without understanding whats part of that, they deserve what they get tbh. But, despite "google" it as a response being against the mac forum rules of appropriate debate, the same can be said for instructions on how to disable those settings too if someone did simply click through and take the default path. This is all part of dumbing down of technology - let it do the work, this is a movement that goes back 20 years. The data collection most people are ok with, its simply to provide usage data to allow for product improvements - something apple really need to start doing and quickly. The product quality is nowhere near what its needs to be. Again more examples in the last few weeks with iPads bricking in 9.3.2.


Opps, look what happened today - Apple installed updates WITHOUT my permission overnight and then restarted my Mac!.

 

[maflynn]

How come there are articles like Windows 10 Upgrade How To Opt out?

It's a good article

Windows 10 is amazing. Windows 10 is fantastic. Windows 10 is glorious. Windows 10 is faster, smoother and more user-friendly than any Windows operating system that has come before it. Windows 10 is everything Windows 8 should have been, addressing nearly all of the major problems users had with Microsoft’s previous-generation platform in one fell swoop.

Like anything, Windows 10 is not a perfect product, but Microsoft does allow you to change your privacy settings, as noted in the article.

First, you’ll want to open Settings and click on Privacy. There, you’ll find 13 different screens — yes, 13 — to go through, and you’ll want to disable anything that seems worrying. The blog notes that most of the important settings can be found on the General tab, though other tabs are important as well. For example, you’ll definitely want to adjust what types of data each app on your system can access.

 

[Easttime]

Shouldn't this be ”Microsoft vs Apple vs Google?" I broke my beloved 2011 iMac installing an SSD to replace the aging spinner hard drive (killed the screen somehow) in preparation for retiring, and the costs of options have really got me thinking. $300 for a Chromebook? Hmm.