Apple vs. Microsoft

[mildocjr]

It's hard to say honestly, Microsoft has been pushing cloud, taking the need for reliability off the client and pushing it towards the network and server side which hasn't fluctuated one way or another.

Apple on the other hand has been pushing mobile which by nature uses the cloud, it's how they reason with the core-m MacBook with one USB-C port. Along this path is trying to take mobile and client and unify the tools without changing their intended UX for either platform.

Apple and Microsoft are hard to be compared because they also focus their attention in different domains.
Microsoft is a Enterprise focused company, Apple is a consumer focused company.

Microsoft doesn't care how many average users are using outlook.com or how many people bought Office 365 from a retail store. They care about how many businesses are using their products, how many server licenses they sold, how many businesses are adopting the subscription based Office 365. For Microsoft it isn't about Windows anymore, it's about how many businesses will take up subscription plans and if they can lead consumers to subscription plans well that's just a cherry on top.

Likewise, Apple doesn't care about how many businesses are using OS X or OS X Server. They don't care about developing tools meant for Enterprise (there would be more if they did). They care about Apps and Entertainment reaching as many users as possible. For them it's about putting a mobile device in the hands of every single person and having them upgrade every 2 to 3 years. It's still a subscription plan, but there isn't a set contract time on it. They give away their average user software for free because it's not their cash cow, selling iPhones is.

In terms of the cloud: Microsoft is SAAS + initial hardware, Apple is HAAS + subsequent software.

before this both companies were initial hardware + subsequent software

As for Google they have always been SAAS, but with the release of ChromeBooks they became SAAS + initial hardware.

To add to this, Windows 10 is stable as long as you aren't on the Slow or Fast Ring. OS X is stable but it's apps could use some help (XCode anyone?) I'm no longer seeing Mac as being superior to Windows, but instead I see them on equal playing fields.

It is up to the end user to decide which works better for them. In my case, I like iPhone more than I do Windows Phone or Android. It's just a personal preference. I like Windows for gaming and I like my Mac for development and design. And if anyone wants to preach about this and might claim that I hate Windows, my Windows PC (built for gaming) costs more than my fully loaded 27" iMac. I like to defend Apple because they've been the OS underdog for a long time, I'm rooting for them, but in this post I'm keeping my bias out of it aside from what I want for myself.

 

[maflynn]

To add to this, Windows 10 is stable as long as you aren't on the Slow or Fast Ring.

Basically users on the slow/fast ring are those who opted to get beta versions of windows. I think the same comment about stability/bugs would apply to OS X's developer and public beta programs.

 

[mildocjr]

Basically users on the slow/fast ring are those who opted to get beta versions of windows. I think the same comment about stability/bugs would apply to OS X's developer and public beta programs.

Yes, but since it is offered and some people might not know what it really means I added that to the statement. Some might view it as a feature; not as testing pre-release software.

 

[maflynn]

Yes, but since it is offered and some people might not know what it really means I added that to the statement. Some might view it as a feature; not as testing pre-release software.

Its been a while since I was on the fast ring, but I think at the time, the prompts were fairly obvious of what this means, i.e., loading beta versions, stabilities, etc. I was on the fast ring for windows 10 last year, but I opted to get out of that, as the windows 10 release date neared. Since then, I've been on stock, since I don't want to mess with beta versions for my main machine

 

[mildocjr]

Its been a while since I was on the fast ring, but I think at the time, the prompts were fairly obvious of what this means, i.e., loading beta versions, stabilities, etc. I was on the fast ring for windows 10 last year, but I opted to get out of that, as the windows 10 release date neared. Since then, I've been on stock, since I don't want to mess with beta versions for my main machine

I'm an IT admin, people install windows 10 without really know what they are doing, they just click ok to bypass the warning message(s). I don't give said idiots that much credit when it comes to pop-up messages. I'm just thankful for people like you who are not a part of that group.

 

[Zirel]

Its not BS, Apple locked down OS X years ago, right when there was a vibrant growing theming community. There's some theming and some changes you can make but it pails in comparison to what you can easily do in Windows.

Here's some offerings from Stardock:

Themes
View attachment 634031

animations to windows
View attachment 634032

I can organize my desktop with "fences" which allows easy organization
View attachment 634033

All Those are useles (except the last), and unsupported HACKS!

I'm talking about legitimate functionality and extensions here!

Windows doesn't anything like Automator and system-wide services.

That! Makes a difference.

Also, there aren't actions, like in OS X:

For example pixelmator, but there are more:

This action appears not only in photos, but also in mail and any other app that chooses to support actions.

 

[maflynn]

All Those are useles (except the last), and unsupported HACKS!

Well that's your opinion, I find some of them rather nice and I use them. Btw, they're not hacks, they're using actual APIs.

 

[Zirel]

Well that's your opinion, I find some of them rather nice and I use them. Btw, they're not hacks, they're using actual APIs.

No, it's not my opinion, it's not supported by Microsoft, so it's an hack.

Microsoft can launch an update that makes your purchase useless.

Also, it has no use, no practical value.

You also don't need to skin OS X, it looks great out of the box.

 

[mildocjr]

Well that's your opinion, I find some of them rather nice and I use them. Btw, they're not hacks, they're using actual APIs.

Hack: modifying a computer program to function in a different way.

Stardock: modifying the computer OS to function in a different way.

OS: a computer program that provides a user an easier way to communicate with computer hardware.

Yes they are hacks, Stardock replaces the contents of DLL (dynamic-link libraries) on your computer that cause the computer to change the way it does things, also some of Stardocks offerings cost money, whereas all the functionality that he just showed in his screenshots are included with the OS. Yes Mac has equivalent 3rd party hacks that can perform tasks like fences, but you can change the minimization of items using the terminal and "defaults write". As it is not common to adjust the appearance of Mac OS, there is very little out there for it. Most people who use a Mac are neck deep in projects and don't have the time to screw around with the appearance of a window. As for those who are, they typically have a strong coding background or come from Linux and are looking to customize it.

Automator is awesome, it'd be nice if I could do this in Windows without writing up a 50 line powershell script but alas, I'm stuck with Powershell ISE and typing scripts. As for Automator, you can set it to send an email every morning at 5 am in about 5 clicks and maybe some typing. Of course you can script it and set it as a daemon instead, but that's for said users coming from Linux.

Extensions are provided as an API for developers, so all the developer has to do is link to the extension API in their app, then the user only has to select the extension in their app to make it work. It's not like Outlook where if you want specific functionality you have to download a program to link one app to another.

 

[grahamperrin]

… don't see anything "New" from Microsoft …

See https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/22963031 – I read less about technology now than in the past, but that does strike me as new.

 

[AFEPPL]

No, it's not my opinion, it's not supported by Microsoft, so it's an hack.

Microsoft can launch an update that makes your purchase useless.

Also, it has no use, no practical value.

You also don't need to skin OS X, it looks great out of the box.

Practical value to you?
OS X looks great in your opinion you mean - looks like windows XP to me and very dated now compared to other offerings.

 

[Zirel]

Practical value to you?
OS X looks great in your opinion you mean - looks like windows XP to me and very dated now compared to other offerings.

What are you even talking about?

OS X dated? Windows still can't do drag and drop properly!

I drag from Safari to Microsoft Word on the Mac, and everything gets carried over, the text, the pictures, etc.

I do the same thing on Windows, from MS Edge to Microsoft Word, and it fails!

Windows doesn't even have a system-wide spell checker! It's 2016! MS Edge doesn't have spell checking!

So, yeah... "looks like Windows XP"...
[doublepost=1464902262][/doublepost]

See https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/22963031 – I read less about technology now than in the past, but that does strike me as new.

This is a good example of what Microsoft is good at: Vaporware
[doublepost=1464902386][/doublepost]

Yes they are hacks, Stardock replaces the contents of DLL (dynamic-link libraries) on your computer that cause the computer to change the way it does things, also some of Stardocks offerings cost money, whereas all the functionality that he just showed in his screenshots are included with the OS. Yes Mac has equivalent 3rd party hacks that can perform tasks like fences, but you can change the minimization of items using the terminal and "defaults write". As it is not common to adjust the appearance of Mac OS, there is very little out there for it. Most people who use a Mac are neck deep in projects and don't have the time to screw around with the appearance of a window. As for those who are, they typically have a strong coding background or come from Linux and are looking to customize it.

Does Microsoft still allow that?

That alone tells how Microsoft's security is outdated.

Apple haxed similar tricks a long time ago, for those who remember SIMBL and Application Enhancer hacks...

 

[AFEPPL]

Epic..
If you cant be bothered to even try and learn and just bitch what do you expect?
I'm now going to ignore everything you say.. after that spell checker comment and your security comment .

If you took a moment to look at the real data you would see OS X has more vulnerabilities than windows 10..
Just blinded fanboy comments, i use both systems and don't do religious wars!

 

[grahamperrin]

… for those who remember SIMBL and Application Enhancer hacks...

I remember; I still use SIMBL.

… Microsoft is good at: Vaporware

With that blog post less than two days old, I think it's too soon to be Screaming about the lack of consequent software. And I doubt that screaming at the other organisations will expedite delivery:

… working with Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, HTC, Acer, ASUS, CyberPowerPC, Dell, Falcon Northwest, HP, iBuyPower, Lenovo, MSI and many others supporting great virtual reality experiences on Windows 10, and we are looking forward to opening up Windows Holographic …

I'm not a fan of Microsoft, it simply caught my eye.

There's no harm in expressing an interest in holography.

 

[mildocjr]

What are you even talking about?

OS X dated? Windows still can't do drag and drop properly!

I drag from Safari to Microsoft Word on the Mac, and everything gets carried over, the text, the pictures, etc.

I do the same thing on Windows, from MS Edge to Microsoft Word, and it fails!

Windows doesn't even have a system-wide spell checker! It's 2016! MS Edge doesn't have spell checking!

So, yeah... "looks like Windows XP"...
[doublepost=1464902262][/doublepost]

This is a good example of what Microsoft is good at: Vaporware
[doublepost=1464902386][/doublepost]

Does Microsoft still allow that?

That alone tells how Microsoft's security is outdated.

Apple haxed similar tricks a long time ago, for those who remember SIMBL and Application Enhancer hacks...

It's difficult for Microsoft to not allow it when you run it with elevated permissions and due to Enterprise customizations (like the logon background and adding a dialog to display "this is property of xyz company, use of it is monitored ..." when a user logs on. Getting rid of some of the DLLs that Stardock latches onto would prevent users from having to accept the Appropriate Use dialog to protect them in a lawsuit. It's not about Microsoft's security, it's about the users understanding of what an app does and whether or not the user wants to allow this security. There are group policies that companies can apply that adjust these DLLs and another that locks them down from the user.

Security is there, but at this point it's more of usability over security.

Example: If you enabled every group policy object, you'd crash the computer because it wouldn't have permission to do something critical. This is an as needed thing, you don't just turn them all on.

Microsoft has great security, it's no different than passing off a script that says run me and when you do it re-writes the /System folder on Mac or re-writes some of the .conf files in Linux. It will still prompt for a UAC asking for a password but Microsoft is trying to make it usable by throwing up a scary warning and having you click OK to it.
[doublepost=1464909300][/doublepost]

Epic..
If you cant be bothered to even try and learn and just bitch what do you expect?
I'm now going to ignore everything you say.. after that spell checker comment and your security comment .

If you took a moment to look at the real data you would see OS X has more vulnerabilities than windows 10..
Just blinded fanboy comments, i use both systems and don't do religious wars!

View attachment 634090

A bit harsh but true, I use Mac and Windows at home, Linux and Windows at work. I can say that Windows does have more known vulnerabilities, most of which are patched, but at the same time, there are a lot of unknown vulnerabilities for all three systems. Since Mac and Linux aren't as popular as Windows they don't get much attention from attackers. Just because they don't doesn't mean they are any less vulnerable.

I love Apple and their products but I have to hand it to Microsoft, they have taken great strides to turn their platform around after Vista and I think they finally settled in a good place. Time will tell.

As you are correct in drag and drop from Edge to Word, well I hate to say it but web clips is where OneNote comes in. From there you can import it in to Word (I know it's not as straight-forward as Mac is) but it's still doable. Microsoft does have some catching up to do when it comes to software integration, but Apple has some catching up to do themselves in terms of OS updates. We've been on 10.x for almost 15 years. Other than visual appearances and a few additionals under the hood, it hasn't changed much at all. I'm with AFEPPL on on this one and have to say it's time for OS 11.

I can say that the big difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple will be the first to invest their energy into developing new client facing technology and adopting server facing technology, while Microsoft would rather invest their energy into new server facing technology and adopting client facing technology.

 

[Zirel]

It's difficult for Microsoft to not allow it when you run it with elevated permissions and due to Enterprise customizations (like the logon background and adding a dialog to display "this is property of xyz company, use of it is monitored ..." when a user logs on. Getting rid of some of the DLLs that Stardock latches onto would prevent users from having to accept the Appropriate Use dialog to protect them in a lawsuit. It's not about Microsoft's security, it's about the users understanding of what an app does and whether or not the user wants to allow this security. There are group policies that companies can apply that adjust these DLLs and another that locks them down from the user.

Security is there, but at this point it's more of usability over security.

Example: If you enabled every group policy object, you'd crash the computer because it wouldn't have permission to do something critical. This is an as needed thing, you don't just turn them all on.

Microsoft has great security, it's no different than passing off a script that says run me and when you do it re-writes the /System folder on Mac or re-writes some of the .conf files in Linux. It will still prompt for a UAC asking for a password but Microsoft is trying to make it usable by throwing up a scary warning and having you click OK to it.

Are you saying that Microsoft prefers to have that theming thingy than having more security?

Do you think that an admin needs some kind of hacking for those messages?

Are you saying that MS degrades security because they are preoccupied because a seller of theming applications might sue them for usage they don't have rights to?

What you said, makes absolutely no sense at all, so much mental gymnastics!
[doublepost=1464910370][/doublepost]

I remember; I still use SIMBL.

No, you don't, unless you use a very outdated version of OS X.

With that blog post less than two days old, I think it's too soon to be Screaming about the lack of consequent software. And I doubt that screaming at the other organisations will expedite delivery:

It's Vaporware, and VR, as it is now, it's an expensive and useless gimmick 99.99% of people have no interest in spending 1000€+ for something as useless!

 

[mildocjr]

Are you saying that Microsoft prefers to have that theming thingy than having more security?

Do you think that an admin needs some kind of hacking for those messages?

Are you saying that MS degrades security because they are preoccupied because a seller of theming applications might sue them for usage they don't have rights to?

OK stop thinking like a home user and start thinking like a business. Complete with cubicles and 1000s of employees.

As a company who has employees the first thing you want to do is make sure that they are working. Lock down the computers and monitor the Internet traffic. This is where group policy comes in.

Oh crap we got sued because someone never signed an appropriate use agreement and was not aware of a monitoring program for their Internet traffic while they were doing online banking at work. We need to protect ourselves.

Enable a group policy that shows up on login that says hey we will monitor all activity on this computer. Your data will be shared with the company. Click OK to accept this very basic agreement.

By clicking OK, their username is logged into the system and we have a trail that said they read it the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP) so they can't sue us for anything.

This is controlled by a couple of executables and DLLs: winlogon.exe, magian.dll, shell32.dll, and shlwapi.dll. All 4 of these reside in C:\Windows\System32\ which is the same place that Stardock does it's magic with the imageres.dll and hmm shell32.dll (wonder where we've seen that before).

Guess what, changing the system icons for Mac and Linux is even easier, on Mac you just need to find the icon file and replace it with another file of the same name. On Linux you just need to go to the icon file of the application and do the same thing. At least Windows masks it in a DLL. (icon and folder layout resource window)

If you have ideas for how Windows could be more secure, by all means send your ideas to Microsoft. Chances are there is already something in place to prevent unauthorized access.

Example: Windows Powershell has a remote code execution feature that runs in WinRM (Windows Remote Management). This service is on by default, but it's dangerous you say. Actually not really because even though it is on by default, it only allows signed scripts to run. Which means you have to accept a Certificate on your computer through user land or through group policy pushed down by a domain, before the code will even run, otherwise it just looks at you and says I'm not running that, no way. Granted this can be changed to run anything by the user but that requires some effort and knowing what you are doing and an elevated powershell prompt, which still uses the UAC prompt.

On Linux and Mac you have to set the script through chmod in a terminal to get it to run. No certificate needed. The user has to type in their password to run anything requiring elevation but this is what will happen even if you run a powershell script remotely without an administrator username and password.

I have a 4 year degree in Information Security, and have been working in the field for 7 years, I know a little about what I'm writing, I deal with it sometimes.


Let me break it down a little differently.
Windows has over 1,000,000 known vulnerabilities and 999,970 of them are patched.
Mac has patched all but a couple of there less than 500 known vulnerabilities.
Linux has patched all but 50 of their known vulnerabilities.

Lets say all of these have an infinite number of vulnerabilities, because they do.
Which one is more safe than the other. Well Windows protects you from 999,970
Mac protects you from <500 known vulnerabilities
Linux protects you from vulnerabilities patched since Unix in the 1980s up until yesterday's known vulnerabilities.

Which one is the safest?

I'm done.

Sorry no TL ; DR for this one. Too much information is needed to answer this.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

Hack: modifying a computer program to function in a different way.

Stardock: modifying the computer OS to function in a different way.

OS: a computer program that provides a user an easier way to communicate with computer hardware.

Yes they are hacks

Getting into semantics here but hacks are going for unintended modifications usually in violation of EULA to me. For me an example would be taking an online game, modifying code run locally to gain an edge on online/MP play. this is a hack.

altering DLL's for windows have never fallen under this. Its a modification to system files allowed to happen. this common in any OS really. Well besides iOS to be accurate, we can't have fun there sadly. Its on the user to think before they click Ok to install.

Why we have these threads I think. Apple is pushing its all there. Zealots go yes master. And others are going umm...thank you for the offer of coolaid but trying to cut down on the sugar but I brought my own water. By your definition, and apple's I'd gather, I hack Mac OS. My hacks? Putting back *nix/bsd functionality ripped out by apple as I can play in CLI a fair bit.

Why some are going damn look at windows, looks like its act got together again. Its supporting a more open experience. Unlike apple. My fan/temp monitor for my mbp I now have to pull direct from vendor. Apple didn't dig how they worked API. No longer on the store because their view of API use and apple's different. So apple took the ball and went back home.

Have done some classes in the coding realm. Give 1 problem to 10 coders and you could get 10 solutions. this is a good thing. When an OS maker is saying unless your answer is just like ours you are wrong....that is not a good thing.

But that's me, API as an example should be free roaming areas. its how many open source projects have shot up in use. Here it all is, nice little sandbox for you all....go for it. devs work the API, make nice interfaces that do useful things and there is even the less technical user using some high end stuff not even knowing how cool yet complicated that backend stuff is. They see web interface and use it, devs sees docker swarm cluster of containers power all that on the backend...both go this is so cool.


Odd thing is apple should now this. Its how they got their BSD core they use, that differentiated from unix and Linux. And how they the got the one flavor out of many of bsd even, Darwin.

 

[Renzatic]

What are you even talking about?

OS X dated? Windows still can't do drag and drop properly!

I drag from Safari to Microsoft Word on the Mac, and everything gets carried over, the text, the pictures, etc.

I do the same thing on Windows, from MS Edge to Microsoft Word, and it fails!

Probably because you're using Edge, which, for reasons that entirely escape me, doesn't provide proper drag 'n drop support yet. I'd say it's due to the fact that it's using Windows new application platform, but there are already quite a few UWP apps out there that provide drag 'n drop support.

I chalk it up to the fact that Edge is still FAR from finished, despite MS pushing it as their new browser. It's a mix of "wow, that's a good idea", and "why the hell isn't this incredibly obvious, always necessary, and very widespread feature not in here yet?"

Every other browser available on Windows, up to and including IE, would allow you to do what you want to do.

 

[mildocjr]

Getting into semantics here but hacks are going for unintended modifications usually in violation of EULA to me. For me an example would be taking an online game, modifying code run locally to gain an edge on online/MP play. this is a hack.

Not necessarily but some hacks can violate EULA. A hack is modifying anything that is considered made by someone else and shipped with a product to do something different. This applies to OSes, games, applications. doesn't matter

altering DLL's for windows have never fallen under this. Its a modification to system files allowed to happen. this common in any OS really. Well besides iOS to be accurate, we can't have fun there sadly. Its on the user to think before they click Ok to install.

Jailbreaking is allowed, it's considered hacking too, but you aren't the person who hacked it unless you wrote the jailbreak. As for DLLs they don't fall under EULA violations, because Windows modifies them through policies.

Why we have these threads I think. Apple is pushing its all there. Zealots go yes master. And others are going umm...thank you for the offer of coolaid but trying to cut down on the sugar but I brought my own water. By your definition, and apple's I'd gather, I hack Mac OS. My hacks? Putting back *nix/bsd functionality ripped out by apple as I can play in CLI a fair bit.

Hacking can be easy as you've found.

Why some are going damn look at windows, looks like its act got together again. Its supporting a more open experience. Unlike apple. My fan/temp monitor for my mbp I now have to pull direct from vendor. Apple didn't dig how they worked API. No longer on the store because their view of API use and apple's different. So apple took the ball and went back home.

Apple still checks fan speeds, you can run a command to do this, Apple just wants sandboxed apps that don't interface with the hardware in the App Store to protect "stupid users." You can still download all of this stuff through third parties. Not that big of a deal. Matter of fact you can write your own if you're up to the challenge.

Have done some classes in the coding realm. Give 1 problem to 10 coders and you could get 10 solutions. this is a good thing. When an OS maker is saying unless your answer is just like ours you are wrong....that is not a good thing.

Ehh, yes and no. While Apple does limit developers to coding standards, it's only to ensure that you are coding for a set performance mark, not just coding an answer. Yes I could write 3 for loops or 3 nested for loops but Apple would probably keep the previous app because it only loops 100 times 3 times, not 100^3 times. It saves on processing and makes your app faster.

But that's me, API as an example should be free roaming areas. its how many open source projects have shot up in use. Here it all is, nice little sandbox for you all....go for it. devs work the API, make nice interfaces that do useful things and there is even the less technical user using some high end stuff not even knowing how cool yet complicated that backend stuff is. They see web interface and use it, devs sees docker swarm cluster of containers power all that on the backend...both go this is so cool.

There isn't much wrong with open source projects, but what happens if someone introduces a vulnerability into that code and you fail to see it and this puller ends up forking all your users and sets you to blame? (poor Github puns) Still should be careful or use private repos with known allies.

Odd thing is apple should now this. Its how they got their BSD core they use, that differentiated from unix and Linux. And how they the got the one flavor out of many of bsd even, Darwin.

Well it started off with Darwin, but after NeXTStep acquired the initial language, and Apple acquired NeXTStep, it became Obj-C with a new interface, slowly evolving into what it is today with Swift. Long story and probably none of the kernel is the same as the original BSD it derived from, but yes it came from there.

 

[Zirel]

Epic..
If you cant be bothered to even try and learn and just bitch what do you expect?
I'm now going to ignore everything you say.. after that spell checker comment and your security comment .
[/ATTACH]

Too little, too late, when I tried, it didn't had.

Does it automatically change the language like in OS X? Ms word doesn't!

If you took a moment to look at the real data you would see OS X has more vulnerabilities than windows 10..

No, Apple fixed more vulnerabilities than MS.

All vulnerabilities reported on CVD, on Apple products, are fixed. It's Apple that voluntarily reports and fixes them.

And for some odd reason, every version and every app gets dumped on OS X, which is stupid, Windows, they don't do it that way. Also, why every vuln. with Safari, gets on OS X tab, but not when it happens to Internet Explorer, to Windows!

Not comparable!

 

[Renzatic]

This is a good example of what Microsoft is good at: Vaporware

What? They've been shipping out dev models for about a couple of months now. Anyone can pick one up, provided they're willing to pay the steep entry price.

 

[grahamperrin]

Sigh …

No, you don't,

I do.

unless you use a very outdated version of OS X.

It's not.

For a while I preferred EasySIMBL. When it became appropriate for me to revert to use of SIMBL, I did so.

 

[lowendlinux]

This thread has turned in to a whole bunch of win...please keep it going guys

 

[Zirel]

Sigh …



I do.



It's not.

For a while I preferred EasySIMBL. When it became appropriate for me to revert to use of SIMBL, I did so.

It doesn't support 10.11.
[doublepost=1464958245][/doublepost]

What? They've been shipping out dev models for about a couple of months now. Anyone can pick one up, provided they're willing to pay the steep entry price.

Yes, and what about the public? Nothing!

The experience is also not anything like the presentation they fool people with.