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ApplePay will be a mess the first few years!

AliMacs said:
I never said NFC - I said Softcard - everyone who is anyone who owns an android device will know what I'm talking about (formerly known as ISIS) -

It's not rocket science, just tell them you are paying with Softcard then they push a button and you tap your device to the pay wave logo and voila. Hear a confirmation beep/vibration and you are done.

Subway is new to this but since oct 1, these 26000 stores all have the registers that can accept but yet they don't. It proves that no one cares or the fact mobile payments will take a long time to become successful. Google tried, Softcard is doing it now and yet you will see these fails. When apple pay is ready publicly, expect even worse.

Jamba juice seems like the only place that works nearly all the time. Rite-Aid is nonexistent.

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lol, it's not jargon, they don't even know how to work the register period.
:rolleyes:
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so ApplePay which uses NFC will fail because Androids softie is not catching on?

NFC is more popular than Softie and NFC does not require an explaination you just say Visa or Debit
 
With a sample size like that, how could it be wrong?

Apple pay (and all nfc payments) will take several years to fully catch on, but not because one subway employee didn't know how to use the technology before it was even available for iPhones.
 
unagimiyagi said:
Until you can be sure that all places accept it, you're going to keep carrying your wallet.
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Were you planning to not carry a drivers license and medical insurance card? :)

There's still a lot of utility in simply reducing the bulk in your wallet. Carry a VISA as backup, and Apple Pay for other cards in your arsenal of different points/benefits programs.

BTW - anyone know what table-service restaurants are planning to do regarding chip&pin? Are they implementing the portable wireless credit card terminals I've seen used in Canada?
 
I am in no hurry to enter all my credit card info into Apple Pay. I will let you people iron the bugs out for a year or two.

If this goes wrong, I do not want to be a part of it.

Some of you are ready to dive right in and claim the water is just fine!:p
 
AliMacs said:
So I went with a friend to subway today...
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All bets off.

52165aa2afa96f57b50000a3.jpg
 
deeddawg said:
Doesn't have to be the whole world, just a substantial enough portion to catch the vendors attention. ;)
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It would take ALOT to catch the vendors attention.

Newtons Apple said:
I am in no hurry to enter all my credit card info into Apple Pay. I will let you people iron the bugs out for a year or two.

If this goes wrong, I do not want to be a part of it.

Some of you are ready to dive right in and claim the water is just fine!:p
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I agree. Won't be doing it day 1 for various reasons but mostly because of bugs and the fact that there will be very few retailers accepting it at first.. if ever.
 
I'll test it out.. In fact I'll test it the day it launches and report back here. I love the idea of not taking my card out and handing it over to a worker or swiping it on the pad. It might take some time for it to take off but you know Walgreens will be busy the day it launches just so people can go use it to see how it is.
 
If NFC payments do take off, it won't be immediately. I think it will be a slow march to that technology. Additionally, Apple Pay is not moving as fast as Apple wanted - at least that's my opinion given the number of retailers who refused and/or jumped off the bandwagon.
 
AliMacs said:
So I went with a friend to subway today and this subway is a very high traffic subway mind you.

I ask her to use her Softcard to pay for the meal and when asking the front person to ring it up using mobile payment, they had a deer in headlight stare back. Even though the pay pass logo and the ISIS/SOFTCARD purple logo is clearly present on the customer card machine.

Subway allowed 26,000 of their franchise to support soft card mobile payments since october 1st. The employee said the manager was out of town and never showed them how to use it.

I will tell you NFC mobile payments has been available and in use for a couple of years now and yet something so simple like subway can't even recognize the mobile payment process.

ApplePay isn't gonna make a difference until everyone gets its but not for a few years!
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This is where Apple will shine. Training and directions on use will be mandated and ApplePay will be listed as a form of payment on the POS system.

Walgreens recently updated their signature pads and as of this weekend actually have a google wallet icon on the screen, i expect and ApplePay logo will also be visible once they go live with it.
 
I don't think it will be a mess at all. I believe banking institutions will instruct their customers how to use it and it won't require asking any cashier to use it. Just as paying with your debit card, you simply swipe, push your pin and keep it moving.

So this will be the same concept. The questions come because the customer doesn't know what he/she are doing just yet.
 
mdlooker said:
I don't think it will be a mess at all. I believe banking institutions will instruct their customers how to use it and it won't require asking any cashier to use it. Just as paying with your debit card, you simply swipe, push your pin and keep it moving.

So this will be the same concept. The questions come because the customer doesn't know what he/she are doing just yet.
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exactly when its done via NFC all you need is a terminal that uses NFC there is no secret button or code the cashier enters to do it you just say VISA or Debit and they say go ahead and when you tap your phone they might look confused but their screen will say approved and it will print your reciept just like when you swiped or inserted the chip and put in your pin
 
The problem with Apple pay is that it was created under assumption that people will be using iPhones in large numbers indefinitely.
 
caesarp said:
Wrong. Retailers are being "forced" to get EMV compatible readers (which can use NFC) due to the strong incentive of the liability shift that takes place as of October 2015.

"This liability shift means that those issuers and merchants using non-EMV compliant devices that choose to accept transactions made with EMV-compliant cards assume liability for any and all transactions that are found to be fraudulent. MasterCard defines the liability shift this way: The party, either the issuer or merchant, who does not support EMV, assumes liability for counterfeit card transactions. Understand that by issuer, the card companies do not mean themselves; the term refers instead to banks, credit unions, and any other financial institution issuing credit or debit cards". - See more at: http://www.paymentsleader.com/will-retailers-be-ready-for-emv-by-oct-2015/#sthash.A4zulQYK.dpuf

Also:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/bulletin-us-participation-liability-shift-080911.pdf
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EMV does NOT equal NFC. Merchants can upgrade to EMV but still not have support for NFC, in which cas Apple Pay will still not work.
 
danny_w said:
EMV does NOT equal NFC. Merchants can upgrade to EMV but still not have support for NFC, in which cas Apple Pay will still not work.
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True, but it isn't usually a giant leap from EMV to enabling NFC (you usually can use the same equipment and just activate the NFC part), so I don't see that aspect as a major stumbling block to wider implementation of Apple Pay.

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Newtons Apple said:
I am in no hurry to enter all my credit card info into Apple Pay. I will let you people iron the bugs out for a year or two.

If this goes wrong, I do not want to be a part of it.

Some of you are ready to dive right in and claim the water is just fine!:p
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Umm, but the credit card info is NOT stored on your phone or on Apple's servers. Nor does the merchant receive it or store it. So what's the problem?
 
Smartass said:
The problem with Apple pay is that it was created under assumption that people will be using iPhones in large numbers indefinitely.
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What, do you expect Apple to *not* have a goal of people using iPhone in large numbers indefinitely? :D
 
caesarp said:
True, but it isn't usually a giant leap from EMV to enabling NFC (you usually can use the same equipment and just activate the NFC part), so I don't see that aspect as a major stumbling block to wider implementation of Apple Pay.
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Accoring to some an NFC-capable terminal is about $600 more expensive to purchase plus an added $100 or more per month processing fee whether NFC is used or not. This alone will deter many small businesses.
 
There is no doubt that NFC in America will be sparse for some time. I can't see everyone running out and buying all the new equipment becasue of Apple Pay.

In 2015 the banks will be moving to NFC and at that point Apple Pay will be more popular but only for "some" of the Apple users as Apple Pay will not work on Apple's older hardware.
 
danny_w said:
Accoring to some an NFC-capable terminal is about $600 more expensive to purchase plus an added $100 or more per month processing fee whether NFC is used or not. This alone will deter many small businesses.
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They need to shop around then. They are getting ripped off by their provider.
 
danny_w said:
Accoring to some an NFC-capable terminal is about $600 more expensive to purchase plus an added $100 or more per month processing fee whether NFC is used or not. This alone will deter many small businesses.
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I'd be curious to see the reference, as that seems way too high a difference between NFC capable and non-NFC capable terminals.

Here's a VeriFone NFC + EMV terminal for $228 new: http://www.amazon.com/VeriFone-MasterCard-Communication-Contactless-Connectivity/dp/B0093I952O

It will be interesting to see what degree of adoption occurs in the next few months and whether the EMV moves will trigger additional NFC adoption. Additional costs to accept NFC payments may be offset if the processors provide a lower rate vs. card-swipes.
 
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Newtons Apple said:
There is no doubt that NFC in America will be sparse for some time. I can't see everyone running out and buying all the new equipment becasue of Apple Pay.

In 2015 the banks will be moving to NFC and at that point Apple Pay will be more popular but only for "some" of the Apple users as Apple Pay will not work on Apple's older hardware.
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You mean they will be moving to EMV. There is no requirement to move to NFC (although usually the equipment that is EMV compatible is NFC compatible).
 
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