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Only if there is a requirement to stay in the AppStore. It’s only a choice if I can continue to get everything I get today from the AppStore.
True, however the App Store offers a lot of benefits. Despite being the recognised platform of iOS, it is highly regarded for its quality and security, and developers will continue to take advantage of advertising opportunities. There may even be an opportunity to sell on both stores.
 
They need to go after a lot of other products and services after this, then. A lot of manufacturers of everything and anything lock you in to their specific consumables, spare parts, stores, what not. How is Apple worse than HP who will literally brick your printer if it detects the ink is not made by HP? Or worse than Nestle with the Nescafe machines that lock you into using their own specific-designed capsules that nobody else can legally make?

It’s good for the customer in the long-run, don’t let Apple and Google tell you otherwise, but it’s very much also just the EU being mad at US corporations for creating effective business models in a free market economy.
Yes it will be great to pay for $2,000 inkjets you use whatever ink you want yay freedom. People have this concept that they will get a cheap device and never have to give the manufacturer a dime again. The wake up call will be when they price said items to match.

None of these companies are going to lose a dime the costs will simply shift and they will use the excuse to make even more than before.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this regulation will now be the reason stated when iPhones go up in cost this year.
 
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I don't think Libertarianism would work. It lacks the compassion necessary for a functioning society. It may look good on paper but is impractical. We know how well "Socialism" worked. Another rigid doctrinal system would be no better.
That's more objectivism, but it would be disastrous. I think socialism can work, as long as it's more democratic socialism and less authoritarian socialism. One thing is clear, capitalism sure isn't working in it's current form.
 
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I hope that the changes that come from these regulations are optional for people from outside the EU. I really don’t want a 3rd party App Store on my phone.
 
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I don't get why Apple would restrict alternate browsers.
One reason is that an alternative browser engine could make web apps as powerful as regular iOS apps, which would circumvent the need to go through the app store. Of course that’s something that Apple doesn’t want. It’s similar to why they don’t allow emulators on the app store.
 
Because that argument worked so well for Microsoft in their antitrust suits when they locked down web browsers to just Internet Explorer right? "Just go to the other Duopoly, stop criticizing fruit computer company!"



That is the complete opposite of what it means. Theodore Roosevelt lead trustbusting efforts on the railroad monopolies for a reason, as when certain players get so big it stiffles innovation as any semblance of other companies attempting to grow. We already have a real world example of what happens when there's no regulation, it was called Trickle Down Economics, AKA Reaganomics in the 80s. The idea being that if you let the major players do whatever they want and get bigger that it benefits everyone.

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A sound idea in theory, but in practice as we learned from Reaganomics it doesn't work. All Trickle Down Economics did was make the rich more powerful while the lower and middle class got nothing in return.

Without any kind of regulation you get a cyberpunk dystopia. Just look at South Korea, where Samsung has market dominance over pretty much every industry there, even having seats in the government.




We're not talking phone manufacturers, but mobile operating systems. In the early days of smartphones we had competition. Besides iOS and Android there was Windows Phone and FireOS, both of which were unfortunately shortlived due to the fact they did not have the app libraries that iOS and Android had with how late to market they were, and both costed Microsoft and Amazon billions. Your only choice for a mobile OS is either iOS on iPhone, or a different flavor of Android. That's not competition, that's a duopoly. Either be at the mercy of Apple with their OS app distribution guidelines, or at the mercy of Google's.



See again above the fallacy of trickle down economics.

The point isn’t trickle down or not. The point is that capitalism provides the most freedom to do what you want with your own money.
 
The fact is, you still have the choice to download software from where you prefer. If you want the security and quality of Apple's App Store - which I believe most will - then choose to download from there. It really is as simply as that.
It's actually the developers that have the choice NOT the consumers. The EU is not requiring developers to make their products available on every platform and in every store. If the developer only wants to make it available in a single store on a single platform...they can do that.
 
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We're not talking phone manufacturers, but mobile operating systems. In the early days of smartphones we had competition. Besides iOS and Android there was Windows Phone and FireOS, both of which were unfortunately shortlived due to the fact they did not have the app libraries that iOS and Android had with how late to market they were, and both costed Microsoft and Amazon billions. Your only choice for a mobile OS is either iOS on iPhone, or a different flavor of Android. That's not competition, that's a duopoly. Either be at the mercy of Apple with their OS app distribution guidelines, or at the mercy of Google's.
And paying the EU government fines fixes this how?
 
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Imagine if we had a functioning United States government that would have made it clear to the EU that such measures would be met with harsh retaliation.

EU GDP in 2008 was 16.3 trillion. In 2022 it was 16.64 trillion. You’d think maybe someone over there could figure out things aren’t working.

Don’t worry, I’m sure more regulations will fix it.
2008 included UK, 2022 would have not, add $3.2 trillion to 2022.
 
There are alternatives. Ever heard of Android?

Freedom of enterprise means that the government stays out of business as much as possible. There is very strong competition between Apple and Android. There were other major players too, like Blackberry, but people preferred Apple or Google.

Simply having alternatives doesn't negate antitrust laws. Antitrust laws are designed to regulate companies with dominant positions in particular markets who are engaging in anticompetitive behavior. How "dominance" is defined can vary by region/country/case but it doesn't have to mean 100% of a market (i.e., where there are no alternatives). A dominant company can be one that is part of a duopoly in a particular market such as Apple (with iOS) and Google (with Android).



Government molestation ends up with higher prices as it raises the cost of doing business. So what if the profits are lower, the cost to the consumer is higher.

Not necessarily. Allowing for more open competition in a market can lead to greater price competition and lower prices.
 
Yes it will be great to pay for $2,000 inkjets you use whatever ink you want yay freedom. People have this concept that they will get a cheap device and never have to give the manufacturer a dime again. The wake up call will be when they price said items to match.
None of these companies are going to lose a dime the costs will simply shift and they will use the excuse to make even more than before.
Apple has no such problem. The profit margin on the physical goods is incredibly high, and revenue from electronics does not spill over to services and vice versa. The App Store is an entirely different business from the hardware.

Regardless, that’s what I’m saying - it’s a very hypocritical move by the EU.
 
They need to go after a lot of other products and services after this, then. A lot of manufacturers of everything and anything lock you in to their specific consumables, spare parts, stores, what not. How is Apple worse than HP who will literally brick your printer if it detects the ink is not made by HP? Or worse than Nestle with the Nescafe machines that lock you into using their own specific-designed capsules that nobody else can legally make? Digital markets are no different.

Antitrust laws are about dominant companies such as Apple and Google with a duopoly in mobile OS. There are many more printer and coffee machine options than mobile OS options.
 
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We're not talking phone manufacturers, but mobile operating systems. In the early days of smartphones we had competition. Besides iOS and Android there was Windows Phone and FireOS, both of which were unfortunately shortlived due to the fact they did not have the app libraries that iOS and Android had with how late to market they were, and both costed Microsoft and Amazon billions. Your only choice for a mobile OS is either iOS on iPhone, or a different flavor of Android. That's not competition, that's a duopoly. Either be at the mercy of Apple with their OS app distribution guidelines, or at the mercy of Google's.
But look at the desktop OS system that is supposedly the "better" competitive approach: Windows has 70% of the market, macOS has around 20% and the remaining 10% includes Linux etc. It doesn't really make sense to say that mobile is somehow anti-competitive relative to operating systems on desktop.
 
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Simply having alternatives doesn't negate antitrust laws. Antitrust laws are designed to regulate companies with dominant positions in particular markets who are engaging in anticompetitive behavior. How "dominance" is defined can vary by region/country/case but it doesn't have to mean 100% of a market (i.e., where there are no alternatives). A dominant company can be one that is part of a duopoly in a particular market such as Apple (with iOS) and Google (with Android).





Not necessarily. Allowing for more open competition in a market can lead to greater price competition and lower prices.

Let's say that you're right. This will lead to more competition. Who pays to run the App Store? Who pays for all the services behind the App Store? Who pays for the security of the App Store?

Now, the EU wants Apple to do this all for free. If you think the consumer isn't going to end up footing the bill for this, either for a per app download fee, Apple ID fee, App Store access fee or some other increase, you're delusional.

Nothing is free.

The difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism says that you should only pay for what you want while socialism says you should pay for what everyone else wants.
 
Antitrust laws are about dominant companies such as Apple and Google with a duopoly in mobile OS. There are many more printer and coffee machine options than mobile OS options.
The problem with that: the EU is treating the desktop OS market like it's the healthier competitive market and in reality it's significantly worse than mobile.
 
That is completely wrong. Tax revenue to the Federal government has SOARED. Lowering taxes resulted in increased government tax receipts. The deficits are being caused by insane spending

Try doing some basic research on Google
Most estimates have the 2017 tax cuts adding up to $2 trillion to the national debt by 2025. They did not cause an increase in tax revenue as Republicans predicted.

 
But look at the desktop OS system that is supposedly the "better" competitive approach: Windows has 70% of the market, macOS has around 20% and the remaining 10% includes Linux etc. It doesn't really make sense to say that mobile is somehow anti-competitive relative to operating systems on desktop.
Windows has also been designated as a gatekeeper, FWIW.
 
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It’s not unreasonable to make sure that you end up in the scenario where Walmart is the only shop in the entire country.
Don't worry and don't push it cause we will have to read it here how having a single cable operator in the neighborhood is actually a good thing for you because regulation is bad! I mean government regulation is bad but corporation regulation of legally unregulated areas is super good and fun for everybody.
 
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Imagine if we had a functioning United States government that would have made it clear to the EU that such measures would be met with harsh retaliation.

EU GDP in 2008 was 16.3 trillion. In 2022 it was 16.64 trillion. You’d think maybe someone over there could figure out things aren’t working.

Don’t worry, I’m sure more regulations will fix it.
Thankfully the reasons for Brexit are being increasingly clear. The EU wants control of everything; economy, law, it wants to create an EU military, and yet Europeans and others, are flooding to the UK?
 
2008 included UK, 2022 would have not, add $3.2 trillion to 2022.
True, but I think the bigger issue might be denominating GDP in dollars as the USD/EUR exchange rate has gone from its high point of about 1.5 to about 1.1 in that period, so denominating it in that currency rather than EUR will obscure changes in economic output.

On an inflation adjusted EUR basis GDP has gone from €11 trillion in 2008 to about €15.8 trillion in 2022 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/279447/gross-domestic-product-gdp-in-the-european-union-eu/)

None of which takes away from the fact that US economic growth in recent decades is very impressive and the EU's could probably be better.

And all of which is pretty irrelevant to the question of how far governments should go in regulating tech!
 
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